Erm... it's pretty embarrassing now.

The party will sow as it did reap. They made a mob out of a shiatload of ignorant jackasses, now they will have to deal with them.

Is it even possible for them to become more angry and less inhibited? I mean, they're doing everything but flinging their feces at the stage and beating their chests while grunting.

RoxtarRyan: The party will sow as it did reap. They made a mob out of a shiatload of ignorant jackasses, now they will have to deal with them.

Unfortunately, we have to deal with them, too. We share this country.

Coco LaFemme: Is it even possible for them to become more angry and less inhibited?

Yes.

I mean, they're doing everything but flinging their feces at the stage and beating their chests while grunting.

I see a 'but' in there.

You mean like they did during Clinton?

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: You mean like they did during Clinton?

Does Newt Gingrich have his successor picket yet?

Forty-Two: RoxtarRyan: The party will sow as it did reap. They made a mob out of a shiatload of ignorant jackasses, now they will have to deal with them.

Unfortunately, we have to deal with them, too. We share this country.

I have a bomb shelter in my backyard. Anyone is welcome to join me. I made it for the zombie apocalypse, but this is right on par.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: You mean like they did during Clinton?

They will be even worse.

My dad honestly thinks McCain is riling up the morons in the hopes that someone takes a shot at Obama.

The sad thing is, it would probably hit some poor Secret Service dude.

Libs were angry about Bush, but their anger turned out to be justified when he decimated the country. I doubt the overt muslim rhetoric will ever turn out to be justified regarding Obama. Maybe the arguments on policy could be correct, but nobody is talking about that. It's all about his "associations."

Yeah, I am a member of the angry left.

guess what? When I said that Bush would be a terrible president in 1999, I. WAS. RIGHT.

what_now: My dad honestly thinks McCain is riling up the morons in the hopes that someone takes a shot at Obama.

The sad thing is, it would probably hit some poor Secret Service dude.

If we finish this election without someone nearly killing Obama I will be very surprised. I am quite certain the recent policies will cause some nutjob to take a shot at Obama. I just hope the asshole misses and doesn't hurt anyone.

what_now: When I said that Bush would be a terrible president in 1999, I. WAS. RIGHT.

It hardly needed Nostradamus to see that coming.

I was embarrassed a long time ago. First that farking patriot act and now again with the wall street 'bailout' that's turned us into a bunch of socialists.

The Republican party has betrayed me, and everyone else who ever called themselves a fiscal conservative.

GAT_00:
If we finish this election without someone nearly killing Obama I will be very surprised. I am quite certain the recent policies will cause some nutjob to take a shot at Obama. I just hope the asshole misses and doesn't hurt anyone.

I'd be willing to wager that there have been several attempts averted that we haven't heard about (other than the three meth head misfits.) The rationale being - you don't want to encourage people or give them any ideas.

GAT_00: what_now: My dad honestly thinks McCain is riling up the morons in the hopes that someone takes a shot at Obama.

The sad thing is, it would probably hit some poor Secret Service dude.

If we finish this election without someone nearly killing Obama I will be very surprised. I am quite certain the recent policies will cause some nutjob to take a shot at Obama. I just hope the asshole misses and doesn't hurt anyone.

we were just talking about this in another thread - the level of sheer hatred and anger from the McCain voters is without precedent. I have NEVER seen that level of hatred before. And it worries me.

Weaver95: First that farking patriot act and now again with the wall street 'bailout' that's turned us into a bunch of socialists.

To be fair, members of both parties were involved with the passing of both items. So, everyone should be embarrassed, not just members of a specific party.

RoxtarRyan: Weaver95: First that farking patriot act and now again with the wall street 'bailout' that's turned us into a bunch of socialists.

To be fair, members of both parties were involved with the passing of both items. So, everyone should be embarrassed, not just members of a specific party.

No, I've always expected the democrats to be heavy handed authoritarian socialists. That the republicans would repudiate their own party platform is a betrayal of everyone who ever called themselves a fiscal conservative. it's destroyed any trust or possiblity of reconcilation with the true conservative wing of the party.

what_now: Yeah, I am a member of the angry left.

guess what? When I said that Bush would be a terrible president in 1999, I. WAS. RIGHT.

THIS

/only I didn't say it in 1999, because I was stupid at that point. Well, actually, in fact, I was apathetic about politics. Thanks to Bush, I'm no longer apathetic.

Weaver95: I was embarrassed a long time ago. First that farking patriot act and now again with the wall street 'bailout' that's turned us into a bunch of socialists.

The Republican party has betrayed me, and everyone else who ever called themselves a fiscal conservative.

Are you old enough to remember Gerald Ford? because by my count, that was your last fiscally responsible republican president.


/loves Gerald Ford
//is a strange person

CougarJeff: They will be even worse.

Oh, god, just what this country needs: MORE angry AM talk radio.

what_now: Weaver95: I was embarrassed a long time ago. First that farking patriot act and now again with the wall street 'bailout' that's turned us into a bunch of socialists.

The Republican party has betrayed me, and everyone else who ever called themselves a fiscal conservative.

Are you old enough to remember Gerald Ford? because by my count, that was your last fiscally responsible republican president.


/loves Gerald Ford
//is a strange person

You aren't a strange person. Ford did a good job...considering what he had to work with. (Economy-wise.) I often wonder if he'd have won in '76 if he hadn't been turned into a running joke...probably not. Pardoning Nixon sealed his fate.

Weaver95: we were just talking about this in another thread - the level of sheer hatred and anger from the McCain voters is without precedent. I have NEVER seen that level of hatred before. And it worries me.

Exactly. I'm very glad we have the Secret Service, and I am very glad they are so good at their job and so willing to jump in front of a bullet. I'm quite afraid one of them will have to give his life for his country.

Ms.Maus: I'd be willing to wager that there have been several attempts averted that we haven't heard about (other than the three meth head misfits.) The rationale being - you don't want to encourage people or give them any ideas.

Yeah, the DNC one is all I know about.

ecmoRandomNumbers: CougarJeff: They will be even worse.

Oh, god, just what this country needs: MORE angry AM talk radio.

actually, I find it comforting when the wackos are ranting on the air about the evils of american society. if they're blathering about on air, at least I know where they are and what they're doing. It's when they all get real quiet that I start to worry.

what_now:
Are you old enough to remember Gerald Ford? because by my count, that was your last fiscally responsible republican president.



I'm just barely old enough to remember Chevy Chase playing Gerald Ford on SNL. So I grew up thinking a vast deficit and a belligerent foreign policy was normal.

Ms.Maus: GAT_00:
If we finish this election without someone nearly killing Obama I will be very surprised. I am quite certain the recent policies will cause some nutjob to take a shot at Obama. I just hope the asshole misses and doesn't hurt anyone.

I'd be willing to wager that there have been several attempts averted that we haven't heard about (other than the three meth head misfits.) The rationale being - you don't want to encourage people or give them any ideas.

I'm quite sure that if Obama was injured in an attempted assassination, the Right would yell "ZOMG!!!1 He set that up hisself to get them sympathy votes!!!1"

stjohn: I'm just barely old enough to remember Chevy Chase playing Gerald Ford on SNL. So I grew up thinking a vast deficit and a belligerent foreign policy was normal.

I was born when Carter was in office, but I've been a history nerd since I was wee, so I never really understood what the adults were doing.

Cornwell: I'm quite sure that if Obama was injured in an attempted assassination, the Right would yell "ZOMG!!!1 He set that up hisself to get them sympathy votes!!!1"

an attempted assassination on Obama would make Hillary the happiest person on the planet. She's be my #1 suspect. Think about it - she could avenge herself on a political rival, seize the nomination by fiat, and pin the whole thing on McCain. Plus, she gets sympathy votes by making an Obama holiday or something similar to Martin Luther King day.

Weaver95: RoxtarRyan: Weaver95: First that farking patriot act and now again with the wall street 'bailout' that's turned us into a bunch of socialists.

To be fair, members of both parties were involved with the passing of both items. So, everyone should be embarrassed, not just members of a specific party.

No, I've always expected the democrats to be heavy handed authoritarian socialists. That the republicans would repudiate their own party platform is a betrayal of everyone who ever called themselves a fiscal conservative. it's destroyed any trust or possiblity of reconcilation with the true conservative wing of the party.

Do you think there is any chance that this would be the beginning of the end of the two party system as it stands? A fatal fracturing of the GOP?

namegoeshere: Do you think there is any chance that this would be the beginning of the end of the two party system as it stands? A fatal fracturing of the GOP?

I don't think there will be any sort of dramatic split or anything like that. I suspect that money and voters will just leak out of the Republican party with every election. Local alternatives (Green and Libertarian parties for example) will find they get more support and money as Republicans find themselves getting the blame for all their failed policies.

The fracture has already occurred. it's just that people are starting to notice it.

Teh Angry Left is only angry because President Bush has been farking America in the ass since the day he was sworn in.

Weaver95: I don't think there will be any sort of dramatic split or anything like that. I suspect that money and voters will just leak out of the Republican party with every election. Local alternatives (Green and Libertarian parties for example) will find they get more support and money as Republicans find themselves getting the blame for all their failed policies.

I think the GOP needs to get back to why people originally liked them- fiscal conservatism and libertarianism, or as New England Republicans (we don't count Romney) put it "Lower my taxes and leave me alone".

With Obama, the Democrats are TRYING to get back to their roots: the party of the little guy. We'll see if Obama lives up to it.

I don't see a Republican coming along who can do that for the GOP.

You people would be better served by running one of the senators from Maine, but you'd need to jettison the fundies to do it.

namegoeshere: Do you think there is any chance that this would be the beginning of the end of the two party system as it stands? A fatal fracturing of the GOP?

Could happen. But so long as you avoid the swamp of proportional representation, the extreme party always withers, and leaves two reasonable parties.

The US has already seen it when the Republicans supplanted the Whigs as the alternative to the Democrats. And obviously, the Democrats have changed position themselves considerably over the decades. The only surprising thing, comparing with other democracies, is that it hasn't happenend more in the US.

There are also many examples of this in UK political history over the last 300 years. It is hailed as the 'end' of the splittist party, but it rarely is.

what_now: You people would be better served by running one of the senators from Maine, but you'd need to jettison the fundies to do it.

As I've said before, I've given this a lot of thought. Let's say we do that - we foot slog along the campaign trail and purge the fundies from the party organization. we'll never be completely rid of them, it's just not possible. Also - we'll lose time and expend a lot of effort to get them out of office. And they won't go easy, they'll do a lot of damage on the way out. So we'll spend years rebuilding from the effort and then face a unified DNC that's firmly entrenched and controlling all the key Congressional committee assignments. And that's not the worst part of it - assuming that the effort is successful it STILL doesn't address the fundamental problem of corruption inherent to our 2 party system.

No, the only solution to breaking this log jam is for one of the two parties to go. I'd have preferred the democrats to go bye-bye but it seems like the republicans have decided to fall on their swords for us.

Weaver95: namegoeshere: Do you think there is any chance that this would be the beginning of the end of the two party system as it stands? A fatal fracturing of the GOP?

I don't think there will be any sort of dramatic split or anything like that. I suspect that money and voters will just leak out of the Republican party with every election. Local alternatives (Green and Libertarian parties for example) will find they get more support and money as Republicans find themselves getting the blame for all their failed policies.

The fracture has already occurred. it's just that people are starting to notice it.

I would have thought that more Republicans would drift over to the Libertarian platform too, but for whatever reason it isn't catching on. My guess is that the de-emphasis of social issues doesn't play well with the Republican base.

Edsel: I would have thought that more Republicans would drift over to the Libertarian platform too, but for whatever reason it isn't catching on. My guess is that the de-emphasis of social issues doesn't play well with the Republican base.

The libertarians haven't really pursued it. And now might not be the best time for them to do so either. we almost NEED to see the Republicans lose and lose badly first. There has to be no doubt left in anyone's mind that the fall of the Republican party is entirely due to the religious right wackos that infected the organization.

Weaver95: No, the only solution to breaking this log jam is for one of the two parties to go. I'd have preferred the democrats to go bye-bye but it seems like the republicans have decided to fall on their swords for us.

But then we'd only have ONE party...that helps NO ONE.

I don't think you need to "purge" the fundies anymore than the DNC needed to purge the overgrown hippies. You just need to run candidates that don't pander to them.

If you ran Susan Collins in 2012, she'd probably lose, especially if Obama's doing a halfway decent job, but it would be a step in the right direction.

You just need to right person to stand up and say "Look. I'm running for president without talking about guns, gods and gays, because it's irrelevant to our national security, our economy, or your family.

That's so cute. The Angry Right has gone absolutely over the motherf*cking cliff these last eight years.

Weaver95: No, the only solution to breaking this log jam is for one of the two parties to go. I'd have preferred the democrats to go bye-bye but it seems like the republicans have decided to fall on their swords for us.

Well, once the two parties had settled into an equilibrium of sorts in 2000, it came down to whoever could play to the middle. The Republicans almost had it by nominating McCain, but when that upset the vocal right fringe, they tried too hard to appease them and abandoned the center. Between that and Bush's unpopularity, the Democrats are winning the war for the middle, making them the stronger party at the moment. It really could have gone either way, but the Republicans chose poorly.

what_now:

You people would be better served by running one of the senators from Maine, but you'd need to jettison the fundies to do it.

Thank you for that. :) I just had a most enjoyable mental image involving a trebuchet...

**sproing** "AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..."

what_now: But then we'd only have ONE party...that helps NO ONE..

Wrong. We'd have several parties. And the Democrats wouldn't be able to maintain a lock on government without the Republicans. See - both parties have set the entire Congressional system up so that independants and third parties can't gain a foothold on anything important. But it only works because they both block ALL the entrances. In effect, both Republicans and Democrats prop one another up. Take one of them away, and the other falls over. They'll be swarmed under by a bunch of regional parties going all over the place.

Weaver95: ecmoRandomNumbers: CougarJeff: They will be even worse.

Oh, god, just what this country needs: MORE angry AM talk radio.

actually, I find it comforting when the wackos are ranting on the air about the evils of american society. if they're blathering about on air, at least I know where they are and what they're doing. It's when they all get real quiet that I start to worry.

I think you're right. When they get quiet, you know they're at Wal-Mart buying Chinese-made ammo for their Egyptian-made AK-47s.

"If Barack Obama is elected president, we fear the Angry Right will become angrier and less inhibited, just as the Angry Left did with President Bush"

To be fair, it turned out we were correct all along. So there's that.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: You mean like they did during Clinton?

Worse. They got everything they wanted, and it turned into a train wreck. This means a) they'll miss it all the more, and b) everyone else will be less inclined to give them a chance.

It will be an embarrassing time to be a conservative


Invalid premise. Conservatives are incapable of feeling shame.

Edsel: I would have thought that more Republicans would drift over to the Libertarian platform too, but for whatever reason it isn't catching on. My guess is that the de-emphasis of social issues doesn't play well with the Republican base.

The base is made up of far too many war on Christmas, the terrorists are coming to get us, the gays are coming to get us, the gay anti-Christmas terrorists are coming to get us types for that. It's why Sarah Palin was a nice boost for them before she started actually saying stuff.

here's another thing to consider - right now, all 'beltway insider' calculations are pretty simple because there are only TWO parties in D.C. All you have to do is figure out who's up for re-election and if they're in a safe district, and you can plan a pretty effective lobbying campaign to get votes for even the most unpleasant legislation imaginable.

Consider what happens if there were 4 parties. Now you've got a problem. Nobody is 'safe' anymore. At any time, anyone could lose their seat - either to another third party, internal party strife or one of the other parties running against them. Members themselves have to pay much closer attention to their district(s) or they risk losing everything in a tight election year. They stop listening to beltway insiders and start paying MUCH closer attention to conditions in their home states. As a consequence, power begins a subtle shift away from D.C. and back towards the states.

win/win situation for all concerned IMHO.

Weaver95:
win/win situation for all concerned IMHO.

So basically, you would like it if we had statesmen and not politicians. I like that.

Weaver95: GAT_00: what_now: My dad honestly thinks McCain is riling up the morons in the hopes that someone takes a shot at Obama.

The sad thing is, it would probably hit some poor Secret Service dude.

If we finish this election without someone nearly killing Obama I will be very surprised. I am quite certain the recent policies will cause some nutjob to take a shot at Obama. I just hope the asshole misses and doesn't hurt anyone.

we were just talking about this in another thread - the level of sheer hatred and anger from the McCain voters is without precedent. I have NEVER seen that level of hatred before. And it worries me.

Why can't they go somewhere else and f*ck that country up instead of this country?