As a Philly resident, I'm frankly astonished that they're refunding money to citizens. I would expect a corrupt, ethically bankrupt organization like this to offer something like "store credit", before actually cutting a check.

What I really want to know is, WTF is the Philadelphia Parking Authority doing handling moving violations in the first place? Oh, right. It's not about safety, it's about revenue.

Fark you, PPA.

I'm actually shocked.

Common sense? In Philadelphia politics?

Its not like it could be LESS likely than I think.

Wow, government officials took the blame and so did the company. That's crazy.

So...they gonna issue letters to all the insurance companies explaining that the points on that person's license have been removed? And pay for any surcharges that drivers' insurance companies assessed on people for the tickets?

Yeah, thought not.

Cameras are unconstitutional, and should be illegal under Federal law.

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Wow, government officials took the blame and so did the company. That's crazy.

I blame Obama's aura of integrity.
Innate ability, Protection From Corruption, 10 mile radius. All within range receive +2 to save vs. undead meter maids.

Were are the camera apologists on this one?

clancifer: Were are the camera apologists on this one?

They're out campaigning for Obama.

/Cheap shot, I know

somebody must be up for re-election

Laughed at "Premaure Activation"

I swear baby, my flash never goes off that fast.

dahmers love zombie: So...they gonna issue letters to all the insurance companies explaining that the points on that person's license have been removed? And pay for any surcharges that drivers' insurance companies assessed on people for the tickets?

Yeah, thought not.

Cameras are unconstitutional, and should be illegal under Federal law.

I don't know that these tickets even give points on a license. I'm not from Philly, but the cameras in Chicago are just a $90 ordinance violation. It's scammed that way so Chicago can set the "court" up so that they never have to call witnesses or solid evidence, and you can never win your case - but the flip side is that you can never get your license revoked or insurance rates raised for red light tickets. Get 10 of them a day, and as long as you pay the fines you can keep on driving.

$100? I just got one our here (in LA) for $380 for turning right on red. Plus an additional $40 for traffic school. I wish mine was $100. I hate red light cameras.

mrmopar5287:
I don't know that these tickets even give points on a license. I'm not from Philly, but the cameras in Chicago are just a $90 ordinance violation. It's scammed that way so Chicago can set the "court" up so that they never have to call witnesses or solid evidence, and you can never win your case - but the flip side is that you can never get your license revoked or insurance rates raised for red light tickets. Get 10 of them a day, and as long as you pay the fines you can keep on driving.

In CA they count as points. If I don't go to traffic school my insurance will jump by $50 a month.

Also, they have the video of the incident online here, so i got to see my red light running. I was guilty, but it still sucks.

kmt11: Also, they have the video of the incident online here, so i got to see my red light running. I was guilty, but it still sucks.

Can't you plead not guilty and make them prove it was you driving the car? Do they have a front photo of you behind the wheel?

Does this mean I'll get a refund from the City of Brotherly Love for the ticket I got from a F*CKING CHINESE COP WHO COULDN'T SPEAK F*CKING ENGLISH?

I hate Philly. Thank God my son failed out of Temple, so I never have to go there again.

BTW, that was a ticket for turning right on red. With a city streetcar blocking my view of the light. I was lost, and the F*CKING CHINESE COP couldn't even tell me how to get to the Temple main campus, which was less than 1/2 mile away.

F*cking Roser.

mrmopar5287: It's scammed that way so Chicago can set the "court" up so that they never have to call witnesses or solid evidence, and you can never win your case - but the flip side is that you can never get your license revoked or insurance rates raised for red light tickets. Get 10 of them a day, and as long as you pay the fines you can keep on driving

You know that most cameras record video of you running the lights? Maybe Philly has retarded systems

love-m'-beer: BTW, that was a ticket for turning right on red.

Um..."right on red" is legal in Philly, unless signed otherwise. In fact, at the intersection of two one-ways, LEFT on red is legal.

some_wild-eyed_8-foot_tall_maniac: love-m'-beer: BTW, that was a ticket for turning right on red.

Um..."right on red" is legal in Philly, unless signed otherwise. In fact, at the intersection of two one-ways, LEFT on red is legal.

Well, I guess if the M*THERF*CKER couldn't speak F*CKING English, he probably didn't have a great understanding of the law.

love-m'-beer: Does this mean I'll get a refund from the City of Brotherly Love for the ticket I got from a F*CKING CHINESE COP WHO COULDN'T SPEAK F*CKING ENGLISH?

I hate Philly. Thank God my son failed out of Temple, so I never have to go there again.

How in the fark do you fail out of Temple? That's almost as bad as failing out of Community College!

/Temple grad
//Proud ;)

"These cameras are a scam. When there aren't enough tickets they shorten the yellow cycle making it impossible to stop on time. That raises revenue while making the intersection more unsafe than it was before the camera. This is going on all over the country, They should be illegal"

That was from the page comments.
Are people actually that stupid in Philly? If that practice was going on the media would be screaming for someone's job.

/morans

Just another day in Philly- apologize and send out refunds a few weeks before an election. Free publicity, similar to the yearly wage tax reduction the lawmakers hype during their reelection runs. Sounds good but after the election nothing is done and it quietly disappears from the public notice.
With the history of Philly poliitcs-- the Feds should put cameras in the offices and vehicles of the mayor and city council. The term "unconstitutional" has grown to mean whatever the lawmakers say it does.

I hope companies like ATS and Redflex rot in hell. Red light runners should rot in hell too, but it doesn't make it anymore "right" that a private company can profit from motorists by providing a "service" to the city. Low-down dirty crooks is all these companies are. JMHO.

I've yet to get one of these, and at least for now in Colorado, as I understand it, they have to serve you within 90 days personally as a notice in the mail means nothing.

Doesn't matter anyway, my car has been driven a grand total of 30 miles in the last 90 days, and I avoid any red-light camera intersection when at all possible.

Speed camera operators? They have a special place reserved in an area worse than hell.

love-m'-beer: Does this mean I'll get a refund from the City of Brotherly Love for the ticket I got from a F*CKING CHINESE COP WHO COULDN'T SPEAK F*CKING ENGLISH?

I hate Philly. Thank God my son failed out of Temple, so I never have to go there again.

That post is so full of WIN! FAIL

/just like your precious crotch fruit

crayzed_weasel: Laughed at "Premaure Activation"

I came here to say that.

stop running red lights, you farking arseholes.

mrmopar5287: kmt11: Also, they have the video of the incident online here, so i got to see my red light running. I was guilty, but it still sucks.

Can't you plead not guilty and make them prove it was you driving the car? Do they have a front photo of you behind the wheel?

Yeah, they have several still photos of me behind the wheel, the license plate (front and back) and others, plus the video.

Yeah, getting busted for breaking the law is totally lame. There should be a law against it.

I'm guessing less than half a mile away from Temple you were in Chinatown

dahmers love zombie: So...they gonna issue letters to all the insurance companies explaining that the points on that person's license have been removed? And pay for any surcharges that drivers' insurance companies assessed on people for the tickets?

Yeah, thought not.

Cameras are unconstitutional, and should be illegal under Federal law.
---------------------------
In general, though I don't know about Philly, red light camera tickets are not considered moving violations, and do not accrue points or even get reported to the BMV/DMV. Additionally, most of them don't even trigger unless your car actually crosses the stop bar marking on the pavement while the light in red. In other words, if you enter the intersection itself- cross the stop bar- on a yellow, but it turns red while you're still in it, even if just the front part of your car has passed the stop bar, you're okay. Some cities (like philly) even give a grace period on top of that lenient standard. Basically, if you get one of those tickets, you were deliberately running a red light and know it. You weren't "just trying to beat a yellow." That light was red when you still had time to stop. I have some issues with the cameras... but I don't see them as all bad.

Columbus, OH has them as well at some intersections. The intersections that have them are clearly marked that cameras are in use, the cameras themselves are on giant poles and housed in giant cubes attached to the poles, and they are timed such that they fire only if the front bumper of your car crosses the stop bar AFTER a delay period during the red light cycle. This means that if you hit the stop bar just as the light turns red, and keep going, you STILL won't get a ticket, and any reasonable person would have not tried to go through the intersection anyway.

BunkyBrewman: /just like your precious crotch fruit

ZOMG, LOL !!11!!! you win an internet!!!!

wow, what an edgy, anti-establishment ne'er do well. james Dean would want to be you!!!!

/philthy asshat

KiesteredBeetle: stop running red lights, you farking arseholes.

this

Finger51: Yeah, getting busted for breaking the law is totally lame. There should be a law against it.

and this

kmt11: Yeah, they have several still photos of me behind the wheel, the license plate (front and back) and others, plus the video.

Bummer about the photos then.

As I understand it, if they don't have a photo of the driver they mail the violation to the registered owner of the vehicle. That person is assumed to be responsible unless they provide the ID of the person who was behind the wheel.

I always wondered if a registered owner could plead not guilty when they don't have a photo of the driver, and then claim the 5th when pressured to ID the driver. I don't know if a court case has challenged that scenario.

Zer01: That was from the page comments.
Are people actually that stupid in Philly? If that practice was going on the media would be screaming for someone's job.

/morans

Um shortening yellow times to increase revenue is almost standard practice when installing red light cameras, sometimes to illegally short durations.

here is a list of 6 Cities That Were Caught Shortening Yellow Light Times For Profit (new window) This is just one example.

I've heard that all you have to do is show up in court to fight these tickets and you can get them dismissed pretty easily, mainly due to the fact that a camera cannot show up in court to be confronted by the accused. There is, of course, the distinct possibility that the source of this information was high on some very bad crack. Any armchair lawyers care to confirm/deny this rumor?

Damn, I actually liked Philadelphia. I guess its going on a long list of cities I have to boycott now. :(

It's not much, but I won't spend a dime in a city that has redlight cameras. I used to go to Philadelphia every weekend to try a new restaurant with my wife, generally spent about $200/weekend there.

I hadn't been there in a few years, and didn't realize they added the redlight cameras. Damn, that's a shame.

mrmopar5287: I always wondered if a registered owner could plead not guilty when they don't have a photo of the driver, and then claim the 5th when pressured to ID the driver.

I would assume that the court would say if you can't ID anyone ELSE as the driver then YOU were the driver.

WRJ

r0cj07p: I've heard that all you have to do is show up in court to fight these tickets and you can get them dismissed pretty easily, mainly due to the fact that a camera cannot show up in court to be confronted by the accused. There is, of course, the distinct possibility that the source of this information was high on some very bad crack. Any armchair lawyers care to confirm/deny this rumor?

The camera is not accusing you, the government is. The picture is simply evidence.

In Massachusetts you can't even get out of tickets for officers who don't show up, since each town sends a desk officer to the district court for that days tickets. Of course, the fact that the desk officer couldn't read what the ticketing officer wrote on the ticket did help me get that one thrown out.

WRJ

mrmopar5287: As I understand it, if they don't have a photo of the driver they mail the violation to the registered owner of the vehicle. That person is assumed to be responsible unless they provide the ID of the person who was behind the wheel.

I always wondered if a registered owner could plead not guilty when they don't have a photo of the driver, and then claim the 5th when pressured to ID the driver. I don't know if a court case has challenged that scenario.

1. Using the Fifth to get immunity from prosecution works better if you try to obtain it before the trial.

2. Each and every time cities have tried to use traffic law (which is a subsection of criminal law) to assess fines, appellate courts have struck the provisions down. So these tickets issued by red-light cameras are made to be civil violations, for which the Fifth is not so useful.

I live in Philly Center City and the road/parking/anything to do with cars situation is the most ridiculous that I've ever seen.

Like another poster, I am SHOCKED that they refunded anything cause they're a bunch of soul sucking demons.

phalaeo: I live in Philly Center City and the road/parking/anything to do with cars situation is the most ridiculous that I've ever seen.

Like another poster, I am SHOCKED that they refunded anything cause they're a bunch of soul sucking demons.

I can't believe they are refunding money. I'm really shocked. The PPA has to be one of the most inept, corrupt city departments in the world. Soul sucking demons is far tame to describe these sub-human thugs. I could never figure out why they are also in charge of all the city taxi cabs. Doesn't make sense, but this is Philadelphia.

Off to the Out Fest today. Going to annoy angry christer protesters and nasty PPA employees ticketing cars.