yes please.

But Democrats can't be grilled! That's not fair.

finally people are realizing that the minority party that had no control of any government function is solely responsible for creating 40 trillion dollars of worthless credit default swaps. i'm so glad this isn't a coping mechanism for Fark Independents. that would be... embarassing.

Nemo's Brother: But Democrats can't be grilled! That's not fair.

don't worry, President Obama (elected by cheating, of course) will excuse any wrongdoing by Democrats who get caught in the nets. Only Republicans are going to be blamed or penalized by any of this. Sorry, but we both know it's true.

flavor of the month: finally people are realizing that the minority party that had no control of any government function is solely responsible for creating 40 trillion dollars of worthless credit default swaps. i'm so glad this isn't a coping mechanism for Fark Independents. that would be... embarassing.

1.5/10

Nemo's Brother: But Democrats can't be grilled! That's not fair.

Braised in pork fat is best.

Nemo's Brother: But Democrats can't be grilled! That's not fair.


Well, the Top 6 goes like this... Source (new window)

Sen. Dodd, Christopher J. (D-CT) Total = $165,400 PAC = $48,500 Indiv. = $116,900
Sen. Obama, Barack (D-IL) Total = $126,349 PAC = $6,000 Indiv. = $120,349
Sen. Kerry, John (D-MA) Total = $111,000 PAC = $2,000 Indiv. = $109,000
Sen. Bennett, Robert F. (R-UT) Total = $107,999 PAC = $71,499 Indiv. = $36,500
Rep. Bachus, Spencer (R-AL) Total = $103,300 PAC = $70,500 Indiv. = $32,800
Rep. Blunt, Roy (R-MO) Total = $96,950 PAC = $78,500 Indiv. = $18,450

So, fark "fair" and make these people the first to be investigated and forced to testify. I think some people would be disappointed by the finding of an investigation of the two biggest names on that last list, but oh well.

However, if I could make a recommendation on where to go from there, I'd say start with those who received the most from the PAC's. Getting a check from Susie Q. who works at Company X is a little different from getting a check from Company X's political action committee. As such...

Sen. Bond, Christopher S. (R-MO) Total = $95,400 PAC = $64,000
Sen. Reid, Harry S. (D-NV) Total = $77,000 PAC = $60,500
Rep. Boehner, John (R-OH) Total = $67,750 PAC = $60,500
Rep. Kanjorski, Paul E. (D-PA) Total = $96,000 PAC = $57,500
Rep. Reynolds, Tom (R-NY) Total = $62,200 PAC = $53,000
Rep. Hoyer, Steny H. (D-MD) Total = $55,500 PAC = $51,500

Come on down!

It's pretty simple. Everyone should be fired. Everyone.

flavor of the month: finally people are realizing that the minority party that had no control of any government function is solely responsible for creating 40 trillion dollars of worthless credit default swaps. i'm so glad this isn't a coping mechanism for Fark Independents. that would be... embarassing.

I don't think the freeprs are looking for facts...

/poor people getting loans destroyed the world!

savage henry: /poor people getting loans destroyed the world!

Well? giving loans to people who can't pay them back is pretty stupid if you ask me.

GaryPDX: Well? giving loans to people who can't pay them back is pretty stupid if you ask me.

Offering loans to poor credit risks...and you're blaming the borrowers, not the actuaries?

President Bush has a bold agenda for promoting an ownership society

You are off the farking rails.

Why stop there?

savage henry: GaryPDX: Well? giving loans to people who can't pay them back is pretty stupid if you ask me.

Offering loans to poor credit risks...and you're blaming the borrowers, not the actuaries?

President Bush has a bold agenda for promoting an ownership society

You are off the farking rails.

I was always taught "caveat emptor" and to be careful what you sign up for, in other words "read the fine print". But I guess "personal responsibility" is definitely a thing of the past. If democrats didn't assume people are too stupid to take care of themselves by default, maybe we can have personal responsibility come back again.

GaryPDX: I was always taught "caveat emptor" and to be careful what you sign up for, in other words "read the fine print". But I guess "personal responsibility" is definitely a thing of the past. If democrats didn't assume people are too stupid to take care of themselves by default, maybe we can have personal responsibility come back again.

I would like to think that as well, but a very smart man explained all the intricacies of this debacle.

Simply put, those people would never have been signed up with these invisible CDOs (I think that's what they're called) promised to insure "toxic"...er...excuse me, AAA rated loans to all the banks. Having no real value, these groups of loans were given a value based on a company (Moody's, I believe) making up shiat about unvalued loans. A loan that was worth $100,000 could actually have had insurance on it for over $1,000,000 through various outlets like AIG. But don't call it insurance because if you change the name from insurance to CDO, then nobody will regulate it.

It's horribly complicated and, after yesterday's meeting here, I can see how it really can't just boil down to the one thing. The personal responsibility goes all around.

I'm sure someone way smarter than me can expand on that description.

If one person says it's all the borrower's fault because of personal responsibility, another can say it was 100% the CDO's fault for selling insurance to cover something over which they had no control which gave the banks a greenlight to hand out loans they knew had no chance of getting paid back.

GaryPDX: savage henry: GaryPDX: Well? giving loans to people who can't pay them back is pretty stupid if you ask me.

Offering loans to poor credit risks...and you're blaming the borrowers, not the actuaries?

President Bush has a bold agenda for promoting an ownership society

You are off the farking rails.

I was always taught "caveat emptor" and to be careful what you sign up for, in other words "read the fine print". But I guess "personal responsibility" is definitely a thing of the past. If democrats didn't assume people are too stupid to take care of themselves by default, maybe we can have personal responsibility come back again.


Oh, I don't know. They, and their Republican counterparts, did a great job of assuming that the banks, insurance companies, etc. would exercise "personal responsibility." They also assumed that the American people would exercise "personal responsibility" by not over-extending themselves with loans.

GaryPDX: I was always taught "caveat emptor" and to be careful what you sign up for, in other words "read the fine print".

Oh, I forgot to add that there was no fine print a borrower could read that showed the CDOs (again, it's CDO, CTO, C something O, made up insurance) were pulling the wool over investor's eyes and didn't have the money to cover loans in case they failed.

Zxaranthium: GaryPDX: I was always taught "caveat emptor" and to be careful what you sign up for, in other words "read the fine print".

Oh, I forgot to add that there was no fine print a borrower could read that showed the CDOs (again, it's CDO, CTO, C something O, made up insurance) were pulling the wool over investor's eyes and didn't have the money to cover loans in case they failed.

Then the final nail, these "players" knew Fannie and Freddie would buy the shiaty paper thanks to the Dems. I was also always taught that 1, ignorance is no excuse and 2, gambling without risk is a breeding ground for greed. The other type of greed involved here was "free stuff" greed given away by the government.

There are a lot of variables at play here but the bottom line is, these notes would have never been sold had people done just a little financial responsibility from the start. It's not rocket science to know you can have a half million dollar home working at Burger King.

can't..that is.

GaryPDX: There are a lot of variables at play here but the bottom line is, these notes would have never been sold had people done just a little financial responsibility from the start. It's not rocket science to know you can have a half million dollar home working at Burger King.

I'm not entirely disagreeing with you. I agree with your points, I just think it's disingenuous to just blanket everyone who bought a bad loan as one group with the same shortcomings.

Just like saying all Fark Independents are just Republicans in disguise. ;o) Just poking at you. I respect your posts.

GaryPDX: Zxaranthium: GaryPDX: I was always taught "caveat emptor" and to be careful what you sign up for, in other words "read the fine print".

Oh, I forgot to add that there was no fine print a borrower could read that showed the CDOs (again, it's CDO, CTO, C something O, made up insurance) were pulling the wool over investor's eyes and didn't have the money to cover loans in case they failed.

Then the final nail, these "players" knew Fannie and Freddie would buy the shiaty paper thanks to the Dems Congress. I was also always taught that 1, ignorance is no excuse and 2, gambling without risk is a breeding ground for greed. The other type of greed involved here was "free stuff" greed given away by the government.

There are a lot of variables at play here but the bottom line is, these notes would have never been sold had people done just a little financial responsibility from the start. It's not rocket science to know you can't have a half million dollar home working at Burger King.


FTFY

Please don't let Republicans off the hook in this regard. With full control over Congress and President Bush in office, they could have easily passed regulation on Freddie/Fannie, they could have easily called for regulation on the CDS market, they could have repealed the "subprime" changes to the CRA or repealed the CRA entirely.

Republicans and Democrats have equal blame in this mess. if you want to blame Democrats for being bleeding-heart liberals, then you need to blame Republicans for being too de-regulation happy.


/For the record: Republican

Political Action Committees are legalized bribery.

I hardly see the point of having hearings right now. This fk-up has barely begun.

I come closer to buying a firearm every day. I seriously may farking need it.

TraeHova: Nemo's Brother: But Democrats can't be grilled! That's not fair.


Well, the Top 6 goes like this... Source (new window)

Sen. Dodd, Christopher J. (D-CT) Total = $165,400 PAC = $48,500 Indiv. = $116,900
Sen. Obama, Barack (D-IL) Total = $126,349 PAC = $6,000 Indiv. = $120,349
Sen. Kerry, John (D-MA) Total = $111,000 PAC = $2,000 Indiv. = $109,000
Sen. Bennett, Robert F. (R-UT) Total = $107,999 PAC = $71,499 Indiv. = $36,500
Rep. Bachus, Spencer (R-AL) Total = $103,300 PAC = $70,500 Indiv. = $32,800
Rep. Blunt, Roy (R-MO) Total = $96,950 PAC = $78,500 Indiv. = $18,450

So, fark "fair" and make these people the first to be investigated and forced to testify. I think some people would be disappointed by the finding of an investigation of the two biggest names on that last list, but oh well.

However, if I could make a recommendation on where to go from there, I'd say start with those who received the most from the PAC's. Getting a check from Susie Q. who works at Company X is a little different from getting a check from Company X's political action committee. As such...

Sen. Bond, Christopher S. (R-MO) Total = $95,400 PAC = $64,000
Sen. Reid, Harry S. (D-NV) Total = $77,000 PAC = $60,500
Rep. Boehner, John (R-OH) Total = $67,750 PAC = $60,500
Rep. Kanjorski, Paul E. (D-PA) Total = $96,000 PAC = $57,500
Rep. Reynolds, Tom (R-NY) Total = $62,200 PAC = $53,000
Rep. Hoyer, Steny H. (D-MD) Total = $55,500 PAC = $51,500

Come on down!

Why is that the measure for who gets investigated?

GaryPDX: yes please.

Sorry but who was responsible for Congress in 2000 - 2006, when the deregulation was taking place?

Zxaranthium: GaryPDX: There are a lot of variables at play here but the bottom line is, these notes would have never been sold had people done just a little financial responsibility from the start. It's not rocket science to know you can have a half million dollar home working at Burger King.

I'm not entirely disagreeing with you. I agree with your points, I just think it's disingenuous to just blanket everyone who bought a bad loan as one group with the same shortcomings.

Just like saying all Fark Independents are just Republicans in disguise. ;o) Just poking at you. I respect your posts.

It was, IS like the car business. We all have seen the commercials for Free Credit!!. When I saw these crazy mortgage TV ads for ARMs and subprimes, it remind me of a used car dealer selling to "get me done" kind of people. Get it?

This wasn't a new game out of no where and it wasn't hard to recognize. We all see it on TV with car dealers. Believe it or not, there are people out there that don't give a shiat about their own credit. They just go after everything they can get for free and there are people out there that make a living on that.

My point is..all this was basic personal finance 101 but everyone went crazy. I know a lot of people that made some good coin flipping too. I almost thought about doing it. There really isn't a single point to blame but the starting point is the person who signs up and there's where both sides have to be very careful to do good business.

fark it,

Dealer, I request a new deck.

GaryPDX: I was always taught "caveat emptor" and to be careful what you sign up for, in other words "read the fine print".

It's the banks crying, you complete partisan. They just got bailed out. AIG has your money.

Your hackery is amazingly stupid.

Yes, because all the problems started January 2, 2007.

Democrats didn't cause this mess.

George W. Bush and his buddies did.

The shiat was already going to explode by the time the Dems got their 1 seat majority in 2007. So shut the fark up all you stupid Fark Independents, Trolls, and Republicans.

Will a Republican ever OWN UP to the Failure of their OWNERSHIP SOCIETY?

// never
// end of story.

flavor of the month: finally people are realizing that the minority party that had no control of any government function is solely responsible for creating 40 trillion dollars of worthless credit default swaps. i'm so glad this isn't a coping mechanism for Fark Independents. that would be... embarassing.

Yeah, they were completely powerless. So powerless that they were largely fully cooperative with the restructuring of the regulation (no passed-by-exactly-the-republican-majority bills in there, if you'll notice) and actually blocked an attempt to restrict Freddie Mac + Fannie Mae from doing some specific stupid shiat that was proposed when the Republicans were mostly for it. Oh, so powerless.

//I'm not responsible for pushing the car over the cliff officer! The other guy pushing beside me was slightly more muscular, and therefore entirely to blame!

Also, this:
GurneyHalleck: Political Action Committees are legalized bribery.

with the caveat that they often have no qualms about stepping right out of legal territory to get what they want -- sadly, like any corporation, a PAC can't easily be squashed as a whole, some sacrifical lamb gets pinned with all the blame for the bribery when people are being arrested.

darthbandon: Sorry but who was responsible for Congress in 2000 - 2006, when the deregulation was taking place?

Fark Independents!

There are problems on both sides of the aisle. America's biggest problem is debt. If Obama gets elected, I hope that he listens to actual conservatives and blue dog democrats, rather than the asshats at the extremes. The problem for Obama is that his social program vision doesn't jive very well with an austerity program. If he changes that now, it's suicide. McCain has a similar problem- He'd need to raise taxes. He'd be kissing his already-thin chances away with that move.

Here's the bottom line: If the US doesn't deal with the debt issue, you're going to have to ride this roller coaster again. You decide.

Cataholic: It's pretty simple. Everyone should be fired. Everyone.

They should probably be hanged, but firing does seem like a more civilized Weeners. November 4... hand out those pink slips.

darthbandon: GaryPDX: yes please.

Sorry but who was responsible for Congress in 2000 - 2006, when the deregulation was taking place?

And it started with Clinton in 98 and in exchange for all the votes Bush wanted there were those lovely "earmarks" and deals to further what started with the Clintons. Both parties work off each other, numkbnuts. They're partners and we're the People.

/good try though

GaryPDX: savage henry: GaryPDX: Well? giving loans to people who can't pay them back is pretty stupid if you ask me.

Offering loans to poor credit risks...and you're blaming the borrowers, not the actuaries?

President Bush has a bold agenda for promoting an ownership society

You are off the farking rails.

I was always taught "caveat emptor" and to be careful what you sign up for, in other words "read the fine print". But I guess "personal responsibility" is definitely a thing of the past. If democrats didn't assume people are too stupid to take care of themselves by default, maybe we can have personal responsibility come back again.

In all fairness, neither party seems to understand what personal responsibility means. The Dems never say it, they don't know what it means. The Repubs do say it, but they too, don't know what it means.

The word that best describes this situation, Pass the Buck.

GaryPDX: darthbandon: GaryPDX: yes please.

Sorry but who was responsible for Congress in 2000 - 2006, when the deregulation was taking place?

And it started with Clinton in 98 and in exchange for all the votes Bush wanted there were those lovely "earmarks" and deals to further what started with the Clintons. Both parties work off each other, numkbnuts. They're partners and we're the People.

/good try though

So Gary who is your rant against? Obama????

GaryPDX: But I guess "personal responsibility" is definitely a thing of the past.

It is. Remember that bailout thingy that was supposed to stop the market from falling? Isn't that working out so well?

TraeHova: However, if I could make a recommendation on where to go from there, I'd say start with those who received the most from the PAC's. Getting a check from Susie Q. who works at Company X is a little different from getting a check from Company X's political action committee. As such...

Sen. Bond, Christopher S. (R-MO) Total = $95,400 PAC = $64,000
Sen. Reid, Harry S. (D-NV) Total = $77,000 PAC = $60,500
Rep. Boehner, John (R-OH) Total = $67,750 PAC = $60,500
Rep. Kanjorski, Paul E. (D-PA) Total = $96,000 PAC = $57,500
Rep. Reynolds, Tom (R-NY) Total = $62,200 PAC = $53,000
Rep. Hoyer, Steny H. (D-MD) Total = $55,500 PAC = $51,500

Come on down!

I would agree. Oh and look at that, it's almost 50-50 R & D. But no people will insist it's only one partys fault.

CEO fat cats on Wall Street = evil.

Piggy Politicians = good, or something.

/If Congress on both sides of the aisle are a bunch of crooks, why do we expect more out of the CEOs?

Hobodeluxe: darthbandon: Sorry but who was responsible for Congress in 2000 - 2006, when the deregulation was taking place?

Fark Independents!

LOL. Can't argue with that.

savage henry: GaryPDX: I was always taught "caveat emptor" and to be careful what you sign up for, in other words "read the fine print".

It's the banks crying, you complete partisan. They just got bailed out. AIG has your money.

Your hackery is amazingly stupid.

And every single post I was TOTALLY against these enormously stupid bailouts but everyone panicked and voted for it. Which Nancy Pelosi did a little victory dance over.

Jeremy Bates: Surely no one could be as coonty as you pretend to be.

Coonty?

/hahahahaha

GaryPDX: I was always taught "caveat emptor" and to be careful what you sign up for, in other words "read the fine print". But I guess "personal responsibility" is definitely a thing of the past.

So the lenders, the educated party that has the responsibility of managing the risk of monies they lend, have no responsibility? Personal responsibility is only for the borrowers.

If democrats didn't assume people are too stupid to take care of themselves by default, maybe we can have personal responsibility come back again.

Yes, it's the Democrats fault of course. They are the ones who deregulated everything and then swept in to reward the greedy for their mistakes by picking up the losses. Bush proposed the bailout, McCain is going further and proposing we reward the banks by taking those bad loans off their hands, and the failure of personal responsibility is all the fault of the democrats.

There's a time in a mans life when he should just shut the fark up since he has already become the worst parody of himself imaginable. You hit that point ages ago.

It's time to expand a meme. Shut up GaryPDX, you cock.

How about the lobbyist for Freeddie Mac, Rick Davis?

Oh wait he is too busy being McCain's campaign manger.


Freddie Mac Paid McCain Campaign Manager's Firm Through last Month (new window)

Can we finally ask him about that "waitress sandwich" night in '85 with Ted at La Brasserie?

Dems. Dems. Dems. Dems. Dems. Etc,etc ad absurdium.

Ok, my Gary impression still works.

GaryPDX: Then the final nail, these "players" knew Fannie and Freddie would buy the shiaty paper thanks to the Dems. I was also always taught that 1, ignorance is no excuse and 2, gambling without risk is a breeding ground for greed. The other type of greed involved here was "free stuff" greed given away by the government.

Yeah those "damn Democrats"

Wait who is running McCain campaign? Rick Davis?

Freddie Mac Paid McCain Campaign Manager's Firm Through last Month (new window)

McCain's campaign is ran by A FREDDIE MAC LOBBYIST!!!!!


OOPPSS!!!

2wolves: Ok, my Gary impression still works.

It still needs some tweaking. You forgot to broadly paint people as communists.

lunchinlewis: flavor of the month: finally people are realizing that the minority party that had no control of any government function is solely responsible for creating 40 trillion dollars of worthless credit default swaps. i'm so glad this isn't a coping mechanism for Fark Independents. that would be... embarassing.

1.5/10

It was satire, not a troll.

Cataholic: It's pretty simple. Everyone should be fired. Everyone.

That was the brilliant idea that the Bush administration brought to Iraq with the "DeBaathification" program.

I don't think it would be so good for America.

bartink: TraeHova: Nemo's Brother: But Democrats can't be grilled! That's not fair.


Well, the Top 6 goes like this... Source (new window)

Sen. Dodd, Christopher J. (D-CT) Total = $165,400 PAC = $48,500 Indiv. = $116,900
Sen. Obama, Barack (D-IL) Total = $126,349 PAC = $6,000 Indiv. = $120,349
Sen. Kerry, John (D-MA) Total = $111,000 PAC = $2,000 Indiv. = $109,000
Sen. Bennett, Robert F. (R-UT) Total = $107,999 PAC = $71,499 Indiv. = $36,500
Rep. Bachus, Spencer (R-AL) Total = $103,300 PAC = $70,500 Indiv. = $32,800
Rep. Blunt, Roy (R-MO) Total = $96,950 PAC = $78,500 Indiv. = $18,450

So, fark "fair" and make these people the first to be investigated and forced to testify. I think some people would be disappointed by the finding of an investigation of the two biggest names on that last list, but oh well.

However, if I could make a recommendation on where to go from there, I'd say start with those who received the most from the PAC's. Getting a check from Susie Q. who works at Company X is a little different from getting a check from Company X's political action committee. As such...

Sen. Bond, Christopher S. (R-MO) Total = $95,400 PAC = $64,000
Sen. Reid, Harry S. (D-NV) Total = $77,000 PAC = $60,500
Rep. Boehner, John (R-OH) Total = $67,750 PAC = $60,500
Rep. Kanjorski, Paul E. (D-PA) Total = $96,000 PAC = $57,500
Rep. Reynolds, Tom (R-NY) Total = $62,200 PAC = $53,000
Rep. Hoyer, Steny H. (D-MD) Total = $55,500 PAC = $51,500

Come on down!

Why is that the measure for who gets investigated?

It's a possible measure. The belief is that those who got the most money are those who could have been pushed to perform the steps that caused this to happen (like the Keating Five). I believe it should be opened wider if there's an investigation, frankly. Look at everybody.

One of the giant mortgage companies at the heart of the credit crisis paid $15,000 a month to a firm owned by Senator John McCain's campaign manager from the end of 2005 through last month, according to two people with direct knowledge of the arrangement. The disclosure contradicts a statement Sunday night by Mr. McCain that the campaign manager, Rick Davis, had no involvement with the company for the last several years. Mr. Davis's firm received the payments from the company, Freddie Mac, until it was taken over by the government this month along with Fannie Mae, the other big mortgage lender whose deteriorating finances helped precipitate the cascading problems on Wall Street, the people said...

Now that's straight talk!!!

McCain Aide's Firm Was Paid by Freddie Mac (new window)


Whoops!