Gosling: Dafatone: I have a solution to this sort of thing. It's a little Cat's Cradle, but bear with me.

Free, fair elections are the basis of our government, and the most important part of our democracy (okay, republic, whatever.)

Therefore, election tampering is treason. Any intentional (I know, that's tricky) election tampering is punishable by the death penalty, or life in prison if you don't want to go that far.

I'm not very pro death penalty, but I do think that election tampering needs to be seen as a HUGE crime.

Let's not go death penalty, but I do agree: anyone that knowingly attempts voter fraud or voter suppression needs to go away for a long, long time.

I think it should be treason, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, including the death penalty in states where that is allowed.

To be fair though, I also think it should probably be treason for a lawmaker to accept anything more signifigant than a bummed cigarette from a lobbyist.

/talking = perfectly acceptable
/offering an excess egg roll during a lunch = firing squad

KeatingFive:
While it IS true that liberals are generally much smarter and well educated than Republicans (not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives) it is not true in every instance.

Rebuttal by counterexample: many of the strongest and most blindly consistent supporters of the Democratic party are labor unions. QED.

//No matter how you feel about the unions, you have to admit there are a lot of them and they aren't exactly filled with PhDs.
//Uneducated republican base is typically farmers/more financially independent workers, or a least that's who they cater to.

This type of stuff happens on both sides.

election fraud (new window)
election fraud (new window)

Both repubs and dems do it. Until there's at least one more party this bipartisan bull will continue.

4th Yorkshireman of the Apocalypse: jso2897: 4th Yorkshireman of the Apocalypse: I don't understand - I thought the Dems had the cream-of-the-crop for supporters, so why is this an issue?

The right to vote in this country isn't limited to whoever you imagine to be the "cream of the crop".
Are you seriously saying that these sorts of tactics pass ethical muster?

Ethics? In politics?

I have no opinion on that - but I've been assured that all liberals are upstanding members of the community, as well as Mensa-level geniuses, so why would this be an issue?

(I personally think everyone should be allowed to vote, including ex-cons).

I don't see what the liberal/conservative tribal bullshiat has to do with it. Are you saying it's OK to try to fool people into not voting? Yes or no?

The Republican party is dead. A 3rd party needs to move in and fill the vacuum. I would gladly vote 3rd party if they actually had any chance at winning. It's time to get moving as soon as this election is over.

Maybe the Republicans can be known as the (R)eligious party. See, they can keep the (R).

He said that he did not know who was behind the fliers, which appear to be targeted at supporters of Democratic candidate Barack Obama.

No, really? I would have thought that suppressing votes in a poor black neighborhood would be targeting John McCain's natural constituency, and that Republicans were above this level of sleaze.

JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: And why the assumption that this will impact democrats negatively? Are democrats more ignorant and gullible? Are they more likely to be criminals? I thought that anyone voting for Obama had full command of the issues, and anyone voting for McCain was just uninformed.

Don't mistake claims made about the political poles by, and referring to people like farkers to generalize out to the whole electorate. Smart Democrats know that alot of their vote is uneducated urban poor, and smart Republicans know alot of their vote is uneducated, rural religious types, and smart democrats in this thread will note that it's being done in highly democratic leaning areas of swing states.

Of course, that assumes Democratic fark posters are intelligent and precise enough to include such a qualifier in their claims regarding intelligence distribution of the electorate. For the ones who failed to so qualify, I do believe you just got told.

Dafatone: Free, fair elections are the basis of our government, and the most important part of our democracy (okay, republic, whatever.)

Therefore, election tampering is treason. Any intentional (I know, that's tricky) election tampering is punishable by the death penalty, or life in prison if you don't want to go that far.

This.

Unrelated story: While knocking on doors registering voters yesterday, I meet one young man who says he's been registered for years, but he's never voted. Ask him why, he shrugs his shoulders and mumbles something about it not making any difference.

I lecture him about civic duty, having a voice, etc. Plus that Election Day is my birthday. He agrees to go vote, and I don't think he's saying that just to get rid of me.

Knowing that even one person who felt so disenfranchised from the political process that he never bothered to vote before is going to now warms the cockles of my withered heart.

please, palin/mccain supporters - i'd love to hear you defend this tactic. seriously.

Two Dogs Farking: And the Rove election playbook is alive and well.

Next up: fliers in everybody's mailboxes urging them to get out and vote on November 5th.

essentially what I came here to say.

jso2897: 4th Yorkshireman of the Apocalypse: jso2897: 4th Yorkshireman of the Apocalypse: I don't understand - I thought the Dems had the cream-of-the-crop for supporters, so why is this an issue?

The right to vote in this country isn't limited to whoever you imagine to be the "cream of the crop".
Are you seriously saying that these sorts of tactics pass ethical muster?

Ethics? In politics?

I have no opinion on that - but I've been assured that all liberals are upstanding members of the community, as well as Mensa-level geniuses, so why would this be an issue?

(I personally think everyone should be allowed to vote, including ex-cons).

I don't see what the liberal/conservative tribal bullshiat has to do with it. Are you saying it's OK to try to fool people into not voting? Yes or no?

Sure, as long as there is nothing to indicate that the flyer is an official document (it didn't look very convincing to me).

Beck Bristow: You know who else was a Maverick??

And this one only crashed one plane !

Beck Bristow: You know who else was a Maverick??

Oh - maybe I misunderstood the definition of a "maverick" --- it appears that the definition is "someone who has more money than brains who crashes planes".

Exodus2001: The Republican party is dead. A 3rd party needs to move in and fill the vacuum. I would gladly vote 3rd party if they actually had any chance at winning. It's time to get moving as soon as this election is over.


Except any third party candidate who wants to do something different is widely mocked as soon as he or she actually gains a modicum of support, even by so-called intelligent people. Even by farkers! So you're stuck with shiat sandwich.

res ipsa dixit
I'm not condoning these shenanigans, but if you're stupid enough to fall for this ploy

Stupid, or just old enough to remember/taught by those old enough to remember when nobody would bat an eye that these kinds of shenanigans were really being used to target your community?

I think someone should post flyers at Country Clubs around the U.S. saying that anyone who has used a tax shelter will be arrested at their polling place. Also, that anyone over the age of 60 has to donate a pint of blood prior to being allowed to vote, but that if they have any prescription meds in their system they cannot donate/vote.

/See if they like their own medicine

It appears that this isn't just happening in economically disadvantaged neighborhoods:

Voter Intimidation at Drexel (new window)

4th Yorkshireman of the Apocalypse: jso2897: 4th Yorkshireman of the Apocalypse: jso2897: 4th Yorkshireman of the Apocalypse: I don't understand - I thought the Dems had the cream-of-the-crop for supporters, so why is this an issue?

The right to vote in this country isn't limited to whoever you imagine to be the "cream of the crop".
Are you seriously saying that these sorts of tactics pass ethical muster?

Ethics? In politics?

I have no opinion on that - but I've been assured that all liberals are upstanding members of the community, as well as Mensa-level geniuses, so why would this be an issue?

(I personally think everyone should be allowed to vote, including ex-cons).

I don't see what the liberal/conservative tribal bullshiat has to do with it. Are you saying it's OK to try to fool people into not voting? Yes or no?

Sure, as long as there is nothing to indicate that the flyer is an official document (it didn't look very convincing to me).

Fair enough. Thank you for your honesty.

SubBass49: I think someone should post flyers at Country Clubs around the U.S. saying that anyone who has used a tax shelter will be arrested at their polling place. Also, that anyone over the age of 60 has to donate a pint of blood prior to being allowed to vote, but that if they have any prescription meds in their system they cannot donate/vote.

/See if they like their own medicine

Apart from the whole "not falling for it" thing, sounds like a plan.

None of you seem to know/understand the lessons learned during the 2003 Philadelphia mayoral election. Incumbent John Street (black democrat) was not doing as well in the polls as you might expect from an old-school-100%-democratic-machine city. Several weeks before the election, someone tipped off the mayor's office that there was a bug in his office. He called in the cops who handle security and they swept the office and found it (and they had done sweeps in the past). Turns out it was the FBI who had put it there as part of their investigation into campaign finance violations.

SO, flyers posted well enough in advance of the election to be thoroughly debunked, publicized with the end result being to drive up turnout? THAT'S the PHILADELPHIA way....

So what happens, do Philadelphia voters toss John Street out of office in a fit of disgust over corruption in his administration? Nope, the cry goes out that the Bush Administration is out to get a black politician and Street romps back into office on the people's outrage. Later on, the city's Treasurer and a number of other folks went to jail on charges stemming from the probe and Street's luckiest moment came when his power broker/fund raiser pal died of cancer before the feds could put him on trial.

Of course, this isn't the first time anonymous flyers have been used to try to influence an election outcome in Philadelphia. They're STILL trying to figure out which Democratic faction (although everyone KNOWS who it was) put up flyers during the 2007 primary comparing John Street's (the guy who eventually won the primary and the election) proposed policy of "stop-and-frisk" (to allow police to stop people in the street and check them for illegal weapons) to law enforcement harassment of the Black Panthers in the 60s and 70s.

4th Yorkshireman of the Apocalypse: KeatingFive:
While it IS true that liberals are generally much smarter and well educated than Republicans (not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives) it is not true in every instance.

That's what I was looking for - thanks. If I don't see that every once in a while, I start to gain faith in humanity, and that almost always leads to disappointment.

Would you care to actually refute that?

Here's an idea: a) don't break the law and b) if you get caught making a minor (or major) violation: Pay the f'ing fine.

The jackasses who are made weary by this flier shouldn't be voting. If you can't even manage to keep a warrant from being issued against you, you forfeit your right to participate in the electoral process until you clear it up.

Am I wrong? Why?

Ahhhh...got a better one actually...

Flyers distributed in front of Walmarts in White neighborhoods to elderly Whites that say something to the effect of:

"The (your state here) Secretary of State has determined that people under the influence of the following prescription medicines will not be allowed to vote this year in the presidential election. These medicines have been shown to reduce judgement and rational thought, and the Secretary of State has determined that users are by default deemed mentally incompetent to vote. Any voters that attempt to cast ballots while under the influence of said prescription medications will be arrested on sight and detained until after election day."

Then list all of the most commonly used prescriptions for old folks...high blood-pressure meds, cholesterol meds, glaucoma meds, prostate meds, alzheimers meds, dementia meds, arthritis meds, osteoporosis meds, etc...

/taste of their own medicine that USES medicine

phartnocker: Here's an idea: a) don't break the law and b) if you get caught making a minor (or major) violation: Pay the f'ing fine.

The jackasses who are made weary by this flier shouldn't be voting. If you can't even manage to keep a warrant from being issued against you, you forfeit your right to participate in the electoral process until you clear it up.

Am I wrong? Why?

It's okay to shoot a baby in the face if the baby maybe deserved it.

phartnocker: Here's an idea: a) don't break the law and b) if you get caught making a minor (or major) violation: Pay the f'ing fine.

The jackasses who are made weary wooly by this flier shouldn't be voting. If you can't even manage to keep a warrant from being issued against you, you forfeit your right to participate in the electoral process until you clear it up.

Am I wrong? Why?

Sorry Meat, pet poove.

phartnocker: Here's an idea: a) don't break the law and b) if you get caught making a minor (or major) violation: Pay the f'ing fine.

The jackasses who are made weary by this flier shouldn't be voting. If you can't even manage to keep a warrant from being issued against you, you forfeit your right to participate in the electoral process until you clear it up.

Am I wrong? Why?

If you have a warrant out of your arrest, maybe you SHOULDN'T be allowed to vote.

SubBass49: Ahhhh...got a better one actually...

Flyers distributed in front of Walmarts in White neighborhoods to elderly Whites that say something to the effect of:

"The (your state here) Secretary of State has determined that people under the influence of the following prescription medicines will not be allowed to vote this year in the presidential election. These medicines have been shown to reduce judgement and rational thought, and the Secretary of State has determined that users are by default deemed mentally incompetent to vote. Any voters that attempt to cast ballots while under the influence of said prescription medications will be arrested on sight and detained until after election day."

Then list all of the most commonly used prescriptions for old folks...high blood-pressure meds, cholesterol meds, glaucoma meds, prostate meds, alzheimers meds, dementia meds, arthritis meds, osteoporosis meds, etc...

/taste of their own medicine that USES medicine

Nah, old people write letters to editors, and feel entitled. They'd biatch way too much to make that one feasible.

Instead, post fake AARP bulletins reminding them to vote Wed, Nov 4th, or Tues, Nov 5th.

An ARREST warrant does not equal a conviction. Only those currently in prison or on parole for a felony are not allowed to vote...at least in California.

SurahAhriman: Nah, old people write letters to editors, and feel entitled. They'd biatch way too much to make that one feasible.

Instead, post fake AARP bulletins reminding them to vote Wed, Nov 4th, or Tues, Nov 5th.

lol...classic.

JohanW: If you have a warrant out of your arrest, maybe you SHOULDN'T be allowed to vote.

Hackers, I believe it is now your duty to make sure JohanW and anyone else on this thread who says "well, don't break the law!" has an outstanding warrant on Election Day. They'll get as much warning as 3/4 of the people who currently have outstanding warrants will.

JohanW: If you have a warrant out of your arrest, maybe you SHOULDN'T be allowed to vote.

Why not? And according to the fliers they were saying that PARKING FINES would count against you. Why should a traffic ticket preclude you from voting?

MyRandomName: This type of stuff happens on both sides.

Are you serious? Some misguided students trying to point out flaws in the system and some misguided old folks marking their dead spouse's ballot, all of whom are guilty of felonies? That's your example of what's wrong on the democratic party side?

Meanwhile, we have the mortgage scam in Michigan, Diebold in several states, and widespread voter suppression efforts. Every election, the Republicans want fewer people to vote, because that's how they win. It's a coordinated effort, not a few dumbasses like in your stories.

How about setting up the polling booths inside a police station? (I wish I were kidding, that's what they're doing here...)

/always votes absentee anyway

An anonymous flier circulating in African-American neighborhoods in North and West Philadelphia states that voters who are facing outstanding arrest warrants or who have unpaid traffic tickets may be arrested at the polls on Election Day.

Interesting....You theoretically could, in my experience, be arrested at a polling place. This happened to me during the 2002 midterm election, when I was voting in suburban Mass; I went there and gave my name to the 100-year-old (approx.) lady working the table. It just so happened that behind me in line was an off-duty cop who had seen my name on a list of known sexual predators, and he confronted me about it. I got in one little fight and my mom got scared and said "you're moving with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air." I whistled for a cab and when it came near the license plate said "fresh" and had a dice in the mirror. If anything I could say that this cab was rare but I thought naw forget it, "Yo homes to Bel-Air!" I pulled up to a house about seven or eight and I yelled to the cabbie "Yo, homes smell you later!" Looked at my kingdom I was finally there, to sit on my throne as the prince of Bel-Air.

TheMutineer: None of you seem to know/understand the lessons learned during the 2003 Philadelphia mayoral election. Incumbent John Street (black democrat) was not doing as well in the polls as you might expect from an old-school-100%-democratic-machine city. Several weeks before the election, someone tipped off the mayor's office that there was a bug in his office. He called in the cops who handle security and they swept the office and found it (and they had done sweeps in the past). Turns out it was the FBI who had put it there as part of their investigation into campaign finance violations.

SO, flyers posted well enough in advance of the election to be thoroughly debunked, publicized with the end result being to drive up turnout? THAT'S the PHILADELPHIA way....

So what happens, do Philadelphia voters toss John Street out of office in a fit of disgust over corruption in his administration? Nope, the cry goes out that the Bush Administration is out to get a black politician and Street romps back into office on the people's outrage. Later on, the city's Treasurer and a number of other folks went to jail on charges stemming from the probe and Street's luckiest moment came when his power broker/fund raiser pal died of cancer before the feds could put him on trial.

Of course, this isn't the first time anonymous flyers have been used to try to influence an election outcome in Philadelphia. They're STILL trying to figure out which Democratic faction (although everyone KNOWS who it was) put up flyers during the 2007 primary comparing John Street's (the guy who eventually won the primary and the election) proposed policy of "stop-and-frisk" (to allow police to stop people in the street and check them for illegal weapons) to law enforcement harassment of the Black Panthers in the 60s and 70s.

No offense but I dont think you cleared anything up with this post.

Wow. There is some serious dumb here. I got sent a threatening 'you will be arrested' letter once, because I have a pretty common name and some jackass who looked nothing like me had abandoned his family. I have known people who were arrested for incredibly lame stuff, like the guy who had tobacco in a baggie in his passenger seat and the cop was a 20 year old moron who had no idea what pot looked or smelled like.

DrowningLessons: phartnocker: Here's an idea: a) don't break the law and b) if you get caught making a minor (or major) violation: Pay the f'ing fine.

The jackasses who are made weary by this flier shouldn't be voting. If you can't even manage to keep a warrant from being issued against you, you forfeit your right to participate in the electoral process until you clear it up.

Am I wrong? Why?

It's okay to shoot a baby in the face if the baby maybe deserved it.

so, telling people that they will be arrested if they have a warrant is comparable to infanticide? Can you explain?

I only have one thing to say about this: walla

Round these scammers up and lock them the fark up

I'm 100% behind this idea. Not the leafleteering, the actually arresting scofflaws at the polls. Can't do the time, don't do the crime.

adamgreeney: JohanW: If you have a warrant out of your arrest, maybe you SHOULDN'T be allowed to vote.

Why not? And according to the fliers they were saying that PARKING FINES would count against you. Why should a traffic ticket preclude you from voting?


It wouldn't. An UNPAID and DELINQUENT parking or traffic ticket wouldn't preclude you from voting. Under the provisions outlined in this letter AFTER you voted, you'd be arrested because you have an outstanding warrant. If you care enough to participate, then clear up the warrant before you go. I don't understand why that is not a simple concept for someone.

Biological Ali: 4th Yorkshireman of the Apocalypse: KeatingFive:
While it IS true that liberals are generally much smarter and well educated than Republicans (not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives) it is not true in every instance.

That's what I was looking for - thanks. If I don't see that every once in a while, I start to gain faith in humanity, and that almost always leads to disappointment.

Would you care to actually refute that?

Not really, I don't have a staff of people to assist my hung-over ass. But since you seem to think it's true, perhaps you can help me determine:

1) the definitions of "smart" and "well educated". Is this based on an IQ test, enrollment in secondary education vs. self-taught, # of advanced degrees in secondary education, # of books read, types of books read, reading vs math skills, language vs math skills, etc.

2) the methodology used to apply these measurements to an entire population without bias

3) how is liberal vs conservative determined? Is it based on self-assessment, or applied by another party? Are fiscal conservatives the same as social conservatives? Do fiscal conservative/social liberals count as conservatives or liberals?

That's about all my tiny brain can handle at the moment.

Dafatone: I have a solution to this sort of thing. It's a little Cat's Cradle, but bear with me.

Free, fair elections are the basis of our government, and the most important part of our democracy (okay, republic, whatever.)

Therefore, election tampering is treason. Any intentional (I know, that's tricky) election tampering is punishable by the death penalty, or life in prison if you don't want to go that far.

I'm not very pro death penalty, but I do think that election tampering needs to be seen as a HUGE crime.

I agree. In a Republic like ours, election tampering disrupts the whole foundation of our system. Why it isn't treated paramount to treason is beyond me.

phartnocker: It wouldn't. An UNPAID and DELINQUENT parking or traffic ticket wouldn't preclude you from voting. Under the provisions outlined in this letter AFTER you voted, you'd be arrested because you have an outstanding warrant. If you care enough to participate, then clear up the warrant before you go. I don't understand why that is not a simple concept for someone.

Which is why these things are only distributed to black communities, because white people never break the law!

impaler: phartnocker: It wouldn't. An UNPAID and DELINQUENT parking or traffic ticket wouldn't preclude you from voting. Under the provisions outlined in this letter AFTER you voted, you'd be arrested because you have an outstanding warrant. If you care enough to participate, then clear up the warrant before you go. I don't understand why that is not a simple concept for someone.

Which is why these things are only distributed to black communities, because white people never break the law!

I think that these aren't necessarily distributed in black neighborhoods as much as low income neighborhoods. Also, if you think white people don't break the law, you are incorrect.

jjorsett: I'm 100% behind this idea. Not the leafleteering, the actually arresting scofflaws at the polls. Can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Something that's been kind of glossed over in this thread is the legal aspect. There is a reason this matter is being submitted to the U.S. Attorney for investigation. It's patently illegal.

phartnocker: impaler: phartnocker: It wouldn't. An UNPAID and DELINQUENT parking or traffic ticket wouldn't preclude you from voting. Under the provisions outlined in this letter AFTER you voted, you'd be arrested because you have an outstanding warrant. If you care enough to participate, then clear up the warrant before you go. I don't understand why that is not a simple concept for someone.

Which is why these things are only distributed to black communities, because white people never break the law!

I think that these aren't necessarily distributed in black neighborhoods as much as low income neighborhoods. Also, if you think white people don't break the law, you are incorrect.

Damn, your sarcasm-meter is so broke, you need a new one!

Anyway, I'd bet that black neighborhoods are disproportionately target (at least by repubs). Some poor white people may still vote repub, but how many blacks are going to?

jso2897: jjorsett: I'm 100% behind this idea. Not the leafleteering, the actually arresting scofflaws at the polls. Can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Something that's been kind of glossed over in this thread is the legal aspect. There is a reason this matter is being submitted to the U.S. Attorney for investigation. It's patently illegal.

Of course it's illegal; that doesn't automatically imply that it's worthy of investigation.