Won't it be awesome when they run health care?

I think this, and the recent AIG stories about them burning through $85billion in one month are sufficient proof to show this whole farking thing was a scam.

It seems it is just another looting of the treasury.

I hate to be a conspiracy nut, but after the Iraq war, it seems this administration will do anything to shovel money to their friends.

In the Iraq war, who benefited? Nobody except Blackwater and KBR.

Who benefits in this? Nobody except shareholders and execs at Citibank

Step 1: Create a crisis
Step 2: Use crisis to shovel money to friends
Step 3: Profit

Elvis_Bogart: Won't it be awesome when they run health care?

The only upside would be that I could get some dental work if I needed it

holy crap, our government sucks.

I just re-read my post, and I think I sound like a complete loon.

I'm not a conspiracy nut. But I just have this strange feeling that this whole thing is just a huge heist.

When the FDIC will incur losses in the billions in order to secure a worse deal for shareholders, taxpayers and customers, with the only real beneficiary being Citibank.... it makes me question the motivations behind all of this.

I hope that in 5 years we can look back on this and see a benefit for everyone, but I fear we will look back and see $1.0 trillion being funneled to assclowns that suck at what they do. The same douchebags that throw million dollar parties for their princesses Super Sweet 16 parties.

I really want to be wrong. Seriously.

Cubansaltyballs: I really want to be wrong. Seriously.

I see two options:

1) In 20 years, we'll look back and see this as one in a series of failures of government from about 1997ish on. We'll thank FSM for [insert whatever fixed it here].

2) In 20 years, we'll be passing our oral history down to our offspring around the fire and we'll cite this day as the beginning of the end of the Old World.

Occam's Chainsaw: I see two options:

I hope for option #2.

Sometimes I honestly think a depression that would reshape America in positive way would be better in the long run. I think this "solution" is worse than the problem.

The Newshour on PBS interviewed two people about the AIG bailout. One of them said there was plenty of private interest because most of the company's divisions were making a profit, but the government insisted on a deal right this moment instead of later in the week at a better price.

Cubansaltyballs: The only upside would be that I could get some dental work if I needed it

Might not be worth it though, if you have to do three reams of paperwork to get a government-approved dental student to look at your teeth.

The heist already happened. The only question now is whether we try for some kind of patch, or do we just let everything fall completely apart and try to rebuild. This kind of thing happens every time the financial sector gets deregulated.

another downside to the upside, wells fargo completely sucks.

From the things that I've been hearing, I don't think Citi stands a chance.

The Wachovia shareholders never approved the deal so the "you can't talk to anyone else" thing isn't binding since there isn't a valid agreement in place.

I think WF will wind up getting Citi and I don't think the government is going to stop it from happening.

Cubansaltyballs: When the FDIC will incur losses in the billions in order to secure a worse deal for shareholders, taxpayers and customers, with the only real beneficiary being Citibank.... it makes me question the motivations behind all of this.

Agreed. But don't think for an instant that WF won't profit from this when it'll be able to resell the MBSes to the Govt. at a profit.

And this, my friends, is the reason that I will never again vote for anyone who voted for the bailout. They are simply incapable of doing anything efficiently.

mailroomjack: another downside to the upside, wells fargo completely sucks.

Wells Fargo is one of the only financial institutions whose stock has actually increased in value over the course of this year.

Cubansaltyballs: I just re-read my post, and I think I sound like a complete loon.

I'm not a conspiracy nut. But I just have this strange feeling that this whole thing is just a huge heist.

When the FDIC will incur losses in the billions in order to secure a worse deal for shareholders, taxpayers and customers, with the only real beneficiary being Citibank.... it makes me question the motivations behind all of this.

I hope that in 5 years we can look back on this and see a benefit for everyone, but I fear we will look back and see $1.0 trillion being funneled to assclowns that suck at what they do. The same douchebags that throw million dollar parties for their princesses Super Sweet 16 parties.

I really want to be wrong. Seriously.

The heist has been going on for years. Subsidies, tax breaks, contracts, we have had a run on the American tax payer for a while now, and GW's Administration has been at the helm for it. The bank bail-out is only a further example of it--and bolder.

You don't have to be a conspiracy nut to see a pattern in how GW has operated in the last 8 years. He is heavily beholden to some folks, and he has worked his tail off to pay them back--between loosening regulation, working for tax breaks, backing regulatory agencies away from their duties, no-bid contracts, shipping jobs abroad, and more, he has been fully in the pocket of folks who have profited mightily from his Administration, and feeding like pigs at the government coffers.

I don't give GW quite enough credit for creating these crises, but he has certainly worked his friends into the solutions, and his strategy in the Middle East has worked to profit a lot of folks, while not securing much in the way of real security. Because it's not a Conservative or even long term strategy--GW reacts, and he thinks in only the short term. Short term for profit, short term for effect, and is expecting those around him to handle the heavy lifting of long term thought.

He is a consummate opportunist, and his Administration has been all about taking advantage of a situation best for the short term gain. Which is why I cannot ever call him a Conservative, because he and his Administration have been anathema to everything that I was raised to believe a good Conservative should be.

Cubansaltyballs: Occam's Chainsaw: I see two options:

I hope for option #2.

Sometimes I honestly think a depression that would reshape America in positive way would be better in the long run. I think this "solution" is worse than the problem.

I agree. We seriously need to hit the reset button on America.

Viva la Revolucion!

Where is a Guy Fawkes mask when you need one?

zymosan: Viva la Revolucion!

Where is a Guy Fawkes mask when you need one?

Does anyone else find it interesting that along with this bailout, they put in earmarks for the movie industry and NASCAR? Bread and Circuses, indeed. Hence, a revolution will never, ever happen. Keep Americans fat, dumb, and happy = Free pass to rape the world.

Cubansaltyballs: I hate to be a conspiracy nut, but after the Iraq war, it seems this administration will do anything to shovel money to their friends.


And I thought it was bad when Clinton pardoned Mark Rich. Remember him?

Elvis_Bogart: Won't it be awesome when they run health care?

Every country with public healthcare does it and does it fine. It's sad that you can't have public healthcare because of:

MorningBreath: holy crap, our government sucks.

♫ Do you remember the eleventyith night of March-'05-ah? ♫
♪ Senate were screwing voters with their members ♪
While bailing out the baaa-aaaaaAAnks ♫

(March 11, 2005) Credit card companies, instead of using personal responsibility to stop lending money to people who can't afford to pay it back, get government handout to fix their problems (688)
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ 9644;▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬τ 4;▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬


(March 2005) Senate Passes Bill To Restrict Bankruptcy
Credit Card Business Backed Measure to Collect More Debt

-----
Thinkprogress asked (in 2005):

Why would 18 Senators, including co-sponsors of the original measure, vote for a tougher pro-consumer measure in 1991, and then vote against a weaker measure in 2005? Could it be that the more than $2 million these Senators took from the credit card/banking industry in the interim made them change their mind?

....

Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE)
1991-1996 contributions from commercial banks: $73,575
1997-2002 contributions from commercial banks: $33,675

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ)
1997-2002 Commercial Banks: $235,228
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ 9644;▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬τ 4;▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

(Feb 2005) Half of all bankruptcy is due to medical bills (390)

(Feb 2005) U.S. Senate working on revising bankruptcy laws, removing Chapter 7 bankruptcy (all bills paid off) (238)

(Nov 2007) Creditors continue to find ways to screw debtors even after debts discharged in bankruptcy (102)

(Nov 2007) The new bankruptcy law that makes more people pay their credit cards has backfired on banks because of higher foreclosures (40)

Cubansaltyballs: I think this, and the recent AIG stories about them burning through $85billion in one month are sufficient proof to show this whole farking thing was a scam.

It seems it is just another looting of the treasury.

I hate to be a conspiracy nut, but after the Iraq war, it seems this administration will do anything to shovel money to their friends.

In the Iraq war, who benefited? Nobody except Blackwater and KBR.

Who benefits in this? Nobody except shareholders and execs at Citibank

Step 1: Create a crisis
Step 2: Use crisis to shovel money to friends
Step 3: Profit

In less than a month everybody has a chance to voice their opinion of the lawgivers that slammed this through AGAINST THE WISHES OF THE MAJORITY of people in this country. If your elected lunkhead didn't represent you...SEND THEM PACKING!

Cubansaltyballs: In the Iraq war, who benefited?
?
theres more to iraq than that

this is what they mean by conservative republicans?

good thing the fiscal democrats are winning

I see one option:

I posted this in another thread but it bears repeating:

What Has Government Done to Our Money? (new window)
An economic look at government meddling with money. It was published in the early 1970s but there are lots of stuff that relate to what we are seeing today. I found several paragraphs that directly relate to what is happening today.

Here are some quotes. Remember they are from the 1970s, yet they show exactly what is happening now..

A final indictment of inflation is that whenever the newly issued money is first used as loans to business, inflation causes the dread "business cycle." This silent but deadly process, undetected for generations, works as follows: new money is issued by the banking system, under the aegis of government, and loaned to business.

...

The bluntest way for government to foster inflation, then, is to grant the banks the special privilege of refusing to pay their obligations, while yet continuing in their operation. While everyone else must pay their debts or go bankrupt, the banks are permitted to refuse redemption of their receipts, at the same time forcing their own debtors to pay when their loans fall due.

...

The governments and the banks, persuaded the public of the justice of their acts. In fact, anyone trying to get his money back during a crisis was considered "unpatriotic" and a despoiler of his fellowmen, while banks were often commended for patriotically bailing out the community in a time of trouble.

...

Precisely how does the Central Bank go about its task of regulating the private banks? By controlling the banks' "reserves"--their deposit accounts at the Central Bank. Banks tend to keep a certain ratio of reserves to their total deposit liabilities, and in the United States government control is made easier by imposing a legal minimum ratio on the bank. The Central Bank can stimulate inflation, then, by pouring reserves into the banking system, and also by lowering the reserve ratio, thus permitting a nationwide bank credit-expansion. If the banks keep a reserve/deposit ratio of 1:10, then "excess reserves" (above the required ratio) of ten million dollars will permit and encourage a nationwide bank inflation of 100 million. Since banks profit by credit expansion, and since government has made it almost impossible for them to fail, they will usually try to keep "loaned up" to their allowable maximum.

...

To understand the current monetary chaos, it is necessary to trace briefly the international monetary developments of the twentieth century, and to see how each set of unsound inflationist interventions has collapsed of its own inherent problems, only to set the stage for another round of interventions.

pandabear: Cubansaltyballs: The only upside would be that I could get some dental work if I needed it

Might not be worth it though, if you have to do three reams of paperwork to get a government-approved dental student to look at your teeth.

You mean the one form which is largely completed by the dentist? God, that was such a pain. and the no forms at the doctor's office? That's been complete agony for me.

Seriously, why have so many other countries figured out that universal healthcare isn't a bad thing?

Jeremy Bates: Party Boy: Cubansaltyballs: In the Iraq war, who benefited?
?
theres more to iraq than that

Elaborate,

I wrote down a very abbreviated, unfinished, yet tl:rd for the internets starting here and here.

Would dental be covered? Or just medical?

/never really understood the difference...

m0llusk: The heist already happened

Where's the VAN?!

We didn't give them shiat. They took it.

You guys dont understand whats going on here.

The bigger ones want the smaller ones to be gobbled up. People invested in the the big ones stand to make a shiat load of money off of you when this is all done with.

Less competition and no bad debt.

Cubansaltyballs: It seems it is just another looting of the treasury.

Yup. That's all that the "bailout" was ever meant to be.

I hate to be a conspiracy nut, but after the Iraq war, it seems this administration will do anything to shovel money to their friends.

Corrupted old men in power conspire. It's what they do, and always have. People who see this, understand this, and point it out when it's obvious are only called "conspiracy nuts" by chowderheads on Fark.

I have my accounts at Wachovia, so I'm getting a kick out of removing my assets and banking with Suntrust now.

Elvis_Bogart: Won't it be awesome when they run health care?

You know, I'm getting really tired of this argument. Even with John McWhargarbl's $5k tax crap and "making the healthcare companies compete," you've still got millions of Americans who can't get insured because they are 1) self employed, employed where no healthcare is offered, or unemployed, and 2) have pre-existing conditions.

As a conservative who voted Bush twice, I'm at the point where I don't give a damn about free market ideologies or government ineptness handling the industry, we need some freaking results. Too many people are dying or going bankrupt due to something that has become a need in this country, not a privilege.

If this country is going to continue upon the path of poisonous foods, drugs without full contraindication testing, and labeling everything from bronchitis due to smoking to leg twitches as a syndrome, we need to have a healthcare system that includes everyone.

MorningBreath: holy crap, our government sucks.

Because it can't be the fault of the billionaire bankers who drove the corporations into the ground.

Elvis_Bogart: Won't it be awesome when they run health care?

Sorry, can you explain how the financial crisis we're currently in is an endorsement of private industry? You know, the financial crisis private industry created with their greed?

Bullshiat on top of bullshiat on top of bullshiat

Cubansaltyballs: I really want to be wrong. Seriously.

Add to your little theory the bonus for the republicans that Obama will get the Jimmy Carter treatment, and the republicans will be back in power in 4 years, with a goodly chunk of that 700 billion in their campaign coffers.

Pretty soon the democrats will be doing it too. The way to get elected now is to create a huge mess you then blame on your opponent. The democrats walked RIGHT into it when they passed the bailout without a republican majority.


Welcome, once again, to your dystopian future.

DarthBrooks: I see one option

It's already been tried. Unfortunately Steve Fossett was the scout plane.

Jeremy Bates: Americans deserve to suffer and die. They deserve McCain.

Perhaps we do, but does the other 95% of the world deserve McCain?

I'm gonna say it one more time: I could fix all this in an afternoon if you'd all just give me dictatorial powers for 8 hours.

This isn't farking brain surgery, but the assholes in DC wouldn't know what to do if you gave them the farking answers.

Jeezus Tittyfarking Christ, they make me want to smack a biatch up.

Elvis_Bogart: Won't it be awesome when they run health care?

No one, and I mean no elected person in congress and neither of the two principal presidential candidates, proposes socialized medicine. There are proposals as there have been for years, for PAYING for health care for people who can't afford it.

But you knew that. So stop lying.

AmazingRuss: the way to get elected now is to create a huge mess you then blame on your opponent.

What do you mean, "now"? that's always been a popular right-wing tactic.

We are as Serfs.

We are not Serfs because of our current level of affluence and education. Wait 1-2 generations and we will see a return to total Serfdom, or at least an attempt to do so. This is my guess, and if you disagree, please point out why, as serfdom is a very widespread economic arrangement which seems to keep the society more or less stable over a longer period then democracies or republics. Is that stability "good"? Who knows, but it is historically more stable.

FTFA: "By law, he said the FDIC is required to find the least-costly resolution for taxpayers."

Nothing is cheaper to the taxpayers than having a company use its own money for the purchase of Wachovia. Since this administration has never broken the law, I guess WF will be the winner, right?

fudgefactor7: I'm gonna say it one more time: I could fix all this in an afternoon if you'd all just give me dictatorial powers for 8 hours.

Mind if I ask how?

Gunther: AmazingRuss: the way to get elected now is to create a huge mess you then blame on your opponent.

What do you mean, "now"? that's always been a popular right-wing tactic.

Clinton left a jizz stain on the carpet