They are going to try to bribe the cranky public with $100,000,000 of their own future earnings to get their hands on the other $700,000,000 of their future earnings.

And it will probably work.

arkansas: They are going to try to bribe the cranky public with $100,000,000 of their own future earnings to get their hands on the other $700,000,000 of their future earnings.

You missed a few zeroes.

Subby, it's a budget, not a checking account. There are some similarities, but only on a very basic level.

Your a idiot.

It doesn't appear to cut the capital gains tax, so I can live with it. Assuming the author of the article knew what they were talking about.

A capital gains tax cut - or, rather, suspending that tax entirely - would simply be a massive reward to Wall Street. Which is why Republicans have been pushing for it, of course.

My money has a man with a monocle on it.

/houses are green, hotels are red

If the government's going to go bankrupt, it makes sense for us to get as much of our money out of it as we can first. Duh.

kmmontandon

A capital gains tax cut - or, rather, suspending that tax entirely - would simply be a massive reward to Wall Street. Which is why Republicans have been pushing for it, of course.

Nice try. I am semi-retired, and just about the only tax I pay is on capital gains. I am not a Republican, and only walked down Wall Street one time, long ago. My long-retired mother got hammered last year with capital gains when her former employer terminated her ESOP plan and sold her stock, and she hates Republicans and was only on Wall Street the same day I was.

The situation is not as simple as you seem to think.

kmmontandon: A capital gains tax cut - or, rather, suspending that tax entirely - would simply be a massive reward to Wall Street individual investors.

FTFY

Lots of people who work for a living invest in the stock market.

oldebayer: Nice try. I am semi-retired, and just about the only tax I pay is on capital gains.

ahh, and even those who are semi-retired would appreciate being able to pay less taxes on capital gains. It is about making money in a capitalist system. Lower taxes on capital gains are a good thing.

NeauxFear: arkansas: They are going to try to bribe the cranky public with $100,000,000 of their own future earnings to get their hands on the other $700,000,000 of their future earnings.

You missed a few zeroes.

Subby, it's a budget, not a checking account. There are some similarities, but only on a very basic level.

Your a idiot.

I do hope that was a bit of tongue-in-cheek misusage.

That's called "the Bush Doctrine v2.0" he's been perfecting it for several years, now we're trying to pull it off all in one bill, with the largest dollars he could come up with. It's a hell of a stunt to finish the show.

But every good circus has to have an elephant.

Churchill2004: If the government's going to go bankrupt, it makes sense for us to get as much of our money out of it as we can first. Duh.

It is in our best interest to get the economy on a stable, realistic footing. People should pay their debts and reasonable taxes.

My grandfather lived through the depression and would not take handouts from the Gvt. He ran at least one small business and supported his family.

But who get the cuts? I'm assuming from the line "Senate leaders scheduled a vote for Wednesday night on a version of the bill that adds substantial tax cuts meant to appeal to Republicans" that it aint for you or me.

I have heard two good ideas lately; Sweden's where the Government took a slice of private banks as collateral and then sold it off back to the private sector to recoup the losses, and a small (0.25%) tax on each transaction.

The selling back makes sure that we the tax payers dont pay for a transfer of wealth to the top 1% while the tax slows down the day traders, speculators, and guys who will trash the economy to make $0.01.

I don't know which I prefer but neither sounds bad.

\let the turkeys fail, and the eagles soar.

Yeah, what we need are more tax cuts. Yup, that will solve everything. Dumbasses.

kenfury: But who get the cuts?

This is the $700B question. If they're spread out fairly, so that the middle-class consumers who keep the "real" economy ticking, that's justifiable. However, if they're trying to circumvent cap gains again...

Benevolent Misanthrope: I do hope that was a bit of tongue-in-cheek misusage.

It's an old meme. Now get off the lawn, moran. ;)

I am already feeling stabby about this. Um... tax cuts are nice and all, but what doesn't get funded that we probably need when that happens? I wish I could ask in incredulity "Are they that stupid to fall for it?", but I know what that answer to that is.

ARGGH.

NeauxFear: This is the $700B question. If they're spread out fairly, so that they go to the middle-class consumers who keep the "real" economy ticking, that's justifiable.

FTFM.

Nothing quite says "immediate market crash" like removing the tax penalty for selling and locking in any profits in a down market. BRILLIANT IDEA.

Our nation is retarded. We continue to buy into these false 'tax breaks' that are actually deferrals while we borrow from other countries what we need to run our government as if we never have to pay it back, then we proceed to spend even more money like a college kid with their first credit card.

You want to fix it? Let's pony up and pay our damn taxes NOW, pay off our debt, and reduce spending on pork. Pork, by the way, is not infrastructure, or health programs or education programs, or other truly necessary programs, but cronyism-induced cash-orgies for industries with the most lobbyist money.

Can we send congress to a few credit-counseling seminars and have them cut up their magic credit cards?

Geekette: Let's pony up and pay our damn taxes NOW, pay off our debt, and reduce spending on pork.

Our biggest pork is the military. Not saying we don't need a strong military, but what we have is a Cold War "heavy iron" military. We spend tens or hundreds of millions of dollars on huge giant warships that can't reach 80% or more of the ports in the world so they're useless. We build ten million dollar aircraft that lose up to 30% efficiency when they're not in an environment that's 70 degrees and normal humidity rather than the 100 degrees and no humidity or 100 degrees and 100% humidity where most of the hot spots in the world are. We build guns that can shoot 100 miles with accuracy within a few yards, but it doesn't matter because we don't have the maps with good enough accuracy to know where to aim the damn things. We spend almost all of our intelligence resources on Russia and China and even post-9/11 we still focus on these two countries. We also focus solely on "secret" information (that is information we steal) and devote nothing to open-sources of information. We didn't know India was doing underground nuclear tests until we got the seismic data in -- even though they posted warnings in the friggin' newspapers!

We could cut the military budget by at least a third and create a better, stronger, 21st Century information-age military in the process.

Remove all Republicans: IronTom: Lots of people who work for a living invest in the stock market.

If you can afford to invest in the stock market, you can afford to have a little bit more taken in times like this. It's your patriotic duty.

My favorite analogy: If I go to the casino and lose my ass, I don't expect the casino to give me a do-over.

Abstruse: We could cut the military budget by at least a third and create a better, stronger, 21st Century information-age military in the process.

The Army and Marines need about $250 billion just to replace equipment that was broken or lost in Iraq. If you want to save money, you have to withdraw from Iraq.

In short, if you don't withdraw from Iraq, you'll go bankrupt.

NewportBarGuy: Abstruse: We could cut the military budget by at least a third and create a better, stronger, 21st Century information-age military in the process.

The Army and Marines need about $250 billion just to replace equipment that was broken or lost in Iraq. If you want to save money, you have to withdraw from Iraq.

In short, if you don't withdraw from Iraq, you'll go bankrupt.

My opinion on that is that if Iraq wants us to hang around like mall security guards with M16s, they should start paying us. $5000 per soldier per month should work well -- enough to pay the soldier's salary and equipment, plus extra for support vehicles.

Oh, and annex Blackwater so it's now a sub-branch of the army.

Abstruse: Our biggest pork is the military.

Excellent point. Our military is bloated, old and slow for what it NEEDS to be doing (this has nothing to do with Iraq, we don't NEED to be there.)

Abstruse: Oh, and annex outlaw agencies like Blackwater.

Hell, I don't really even mind Blackwater being around, but it ought to be illegal for a nation to pay a homegrown merc army such obscene sums. If, say, the UN wanted to clear out some Somali pirates, on the other hand...

Let's face it, the Republicans are beholden to Laffer neo-liberal economics to the point of dogmatism at this point. The Democrats are perfectly happy to be lackeys to it and follow in tow. When the House didn't pass the previous bill, I was actually relieved to some degree as it was patently awful. Now this turd shows up with even worse terms than the House bill, all to assuage the 'conservative' requirement of more tax cuts we can't farking afford.

I'm not even sure words can express how fundamentally asinine this thing is.

Also both Obama and McCain can kiss my arse for supporting this travesty.

Remove all Republicans: If you can afford to invest in the stock market, you can afford to have a little bit more taken in times like this. It's your patriotic duty.

Agreed, Comrade! It is our patriotic duty as smart people to financially enable misbehavior, stupidity, and outright criminal activity!

Abstruse: Our biggest pork is the military.

They can't cut military spending. If they try to do it Dick will rise up and get very angry.

Did you feel that one?

Did you?

That wobble was the jolt of all those face-palms...

Why can't the American voter understand how destructive debt is?

Why are homeowners losing their homes? Too much debt.

Why did Fred and Fan need to be nationalized? Too much debt.

Why do banks now need to be bailed out? Too much debt.

The deficit in 2007 was less than the interest payments on the national debt. We had to borrow money just to pay for the money we borrowed. If we did not have that debt we could cut taxes and still have a balanced budget.

But we can't. Why not? To much debt.

Now interest payments will have to increase. How will we make them? Borrow more money of course. Which will make the debt increase and the interest payments increase, so we will have to borrow even more.

Obviously this is not sustainable.

Burn98: Obviously this is not sustainable.

Why do you hate America, my friend?

/pow

IronTom: kmmontandon: A capital gains tax cut - or, rather, suspending that tax entirely - would simply be a massive reward to Wall Street individual investors.

FTFY

Lots of people who work for a living invest in the stock market.

Raising the capital gains tax would probably decrease tax revenues anyway, keeping them where they are seems pretty fair and revenue productive.

oldebayer: kmmontandon

A capital gains tax cut - or, rather, suspending that tax entirely - would simply be a massive reward to Wall Street. Which is why Republicans have been pushing for it, of course.

Nice try. I am semi-retired, and just about the only tax I pay is on capital gains. I am not a Republican, and only walked down Wall Street one time, long ago. My long-retired mother got hammered last year with capital gains when her former employer terminated her ESOP plan and sold her stock, and she hates Republicans and was only on Wall Street the same day I was.

The situation is not as simple as you seem to think.

She got hammered w/ the 15%? It's a pretty fair number and not too oppressive.

Geekette: Abstruse: Our biggest pork is the military.

Excellent point. Our military is bloated, old and slow for what it NEEDS to be doing.

Thank you, that's what I was trying to say but I suck at coming up with good summaries.

Moopy Mac: Raising the capital gains tax would probably decrease tax revenues anyway, keeping them where they are seems pretty fair and revenue productive.

Especially in the short term. Some smart investors that have trained themselves to ride out the peaks and valleys will simply hold their breath until the tax laws change for the better. This would further clog up the markets and decrease economic activity.

I'd suggest going the other way. Capital gains tax revenue is not anywhere near what the income tax brings in. If the capital gains tax were completely rescinded, the market would almost instantaneously be flooded with active investors and cash, cash, cash.

Do these people even realise that their solutions are the disease?

Churchill2004: If the government's going to go bankrupt, it makes sense for us to get as much of our money out of it as we can first. Duh.

"It provides hundreds of billions of dollars of bailout to foreign investors. It provides no real control on Paulson's power. There's a critique board but not really a board that can step in and change what he does. It's a $700bn program run by a part-time temporary employee. And there's no limit to million dollar per month salaries to executives of bailed out firms." .... "The Bank of Shanghai can transfer all of it's toxic assets to the Bank of Shanghai of Los Angeles and then sell them to the Treasury." ...."The foreign markets are being told they're getting money." ~ Rep Brad Sherman (D-CA) (new window)

The rest of the world is very unhappy with us today. (new window)

We can either hyperinflate, or we can default. Thanks guys. It's been fun.

Oh, and Congress is just farking stupid. But the public will lap this up.

Doesn't the Constitution say that all spending bills must originate in the House? IOW, the Senate proposing their own spending bill is unconstitutional; they can't pass a bill and send it to the House for approval. It works the other way.

But, throwing in more capital gains taxes in an attempt to sweeten the deal for Republicans in the House will just alienate more Democrats. This is yet more partisan politics instead of trying to do something together for the nation.

/already sent emails to my representatives

Peter Schiff said it on CNN, we aren't going to become like Japan during their recession. No, think more along the lines of Argentina and their hyper inflation. Our poor worthless dollar.
Oh well, some of us can always become gauchos.

Peter Schiff says...

michaeld5: Peter Schiff said it on CNN, we aren't going to become like Japan during their recession. No, think more along the lines of Argentina and their hyper inflation. Our poor worthless dollar.
Oh well, some of us can always become gauchos.

Peter Schiff says...

I read his weekly newsletter hes been spot on for awhile now.


here's what Argentina looked like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH6_i8zuffs (new window)

Schiff has been warning us for years of this coming crash. Crashproof is the book. He told us what to do and we didn't bother listening.

mesohorny: michaeld5: Peter Schiff said it on CNN, we aren't going to become like Japan during their recession. No, think more along the lines of Argentina and their hyper inflation. Our poor worthless dollar.
Oh well, some of us can always become gauchos.

Peter Schiff says...

I read his weekly newsletter hes been spot on for awhile now.


here's what Argentina looked like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH6_i8zuffs (new window)

I'm not sure our "leaders" thought their plans through. If it comes to that, we won't be throwing stones.

I think it would be funny if the Senate, in turn, told Wall Street to STFU and GBTW

/Hey, we doubted the House
//And party leaders on both sides of the aisle are starting to sound like Baghdad Bob

cltbuilder: mesohorny: michaeld5: Peter Schiff said it on CNN, we aren't going to become like Japan during their recession. No, think more along the lines of Argentina and their hyper inflation. Our poor worthless dollar.
Oh well, some of us can always become gauchos.

Peter Schiff says...

I read his weekly newsletter hes been spot on for awhile now.


here's what Argentina looked like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH6_i8zuffs (new window)

I'm not sure our "leaders" thought their plans through. If it comes to that, we won't be throwing stones.

keep watching, they bring out the cops in riot gear, horses and whips --

This is going to be the most expensive recession/probably depression/Technically neither ever. That said, I am all for this.

Evil Twin Skippy: I think it would be funny if the Senate, in turn, told Wall Street to STFU and GBTW

/Hey, we doubted the House
//And party leaders on both sides of the aisle are starting to sound like Baghdad Bob

Elizabeth Dole who has voted in Bush's favor 92% of the time is against the bill. Yeah. It's going to be a fun day.

Contact your Senators. Several times.

Our economy will be nothing like Argentina's, that so horribly ignorant.

There is no way we're headed to hyper inflation, we're headed towards deflation.

I have yet to see anyone coherently explain why the fark the Republicans are needed anyway. Have I been dreaming or don't the Democrats already have a majority in both the House and Senate? So why don't the Dems just get the party in line and pass this? Would not this help their chances in November even more?

So that Argentina thing is pretty neat - here's a comment that caught my eye.

'Por favor vasta de peleas!!! No se dan cuenta que mientras estan aqui peleando los ricos se gozan de ustedes despues de haberles quitado la riqueza de sus pueblos. Este documental presentado aqui demuestra exactamente el proceso que los bancos internacionales como el IMF y Wold Bank usan para saquearle a un pais. Busquen el libro "Confesiones de un Gangster Economico" escrito por un ex-agente de intelligencia de EE.UU. quien trabajaba para corrompir gobiernos en Sur America y facilitar el robo. '

In translation:

Please stop fighting! Don't you guys understand that while you're all here fighting all the rich are enjoying themselves after taking away the richness of your towns. This documentary presented here shows exactly the process that the international banks like the IMF and World Bank use to sack a country. Look for the book 'Confessions of an Economic Gangster" written by an ex intelligence agent in the USA which worked towards corrupting governments to facilitate the theft.

In a similar manner this is happening to us: the rich, the well connected, the media--they're all putting on a big show while the bottom line is that they're taking money out of the coffers meant for our future. Every kid, every American boy and girl that is currently growing up through our own Educational system, our own Healthcare system, our own highways and roads -- they will be paying that back. Why not put 700b in clean energy for their future? Why not put 700b in our educational system that so desperately needs it?

We're going to be hungry and cold regardless if Wall-Street gets their 700b or not. Stop letting them fearmonger you into believing that it's for the good of our people. Nothing can be good when the the produce of our sweat and blood is being sucked up to the corporations that failed us already. Who is to say they won't fail again? Let the weak fail, the strong will rise.

Call your senator and house representative, threaten them, we the people shouldn't be subsidizing the rich.

MugzyBrown: Our economy will be nothing like Argentina's, that so horribly ignorant.

There is no way we're headed to hyper inflation, we're headed towards deflation.

I agree, sure there are lots of bailouts going around, but it is not trickling down. The poor and middle class are still making the same. This 700 billion bailout will do absolutely nothing for them, except maybe let them keep their bullshiat service based jobs and keep their homes overpriced. I am all for it. A nice temporary solution to keep the show going and at the same time more looting of the treasury.