I'll take "No Shiat, Sherlock" for $5000, Alex?

Funny how the people who scream the loudest about "redistribution of wealth" have no problem with it as long as it's tipping their way... and boy, has it....

Wasn't "coming out like bandits" the entire POINT of the Bush Administration?

is this the quiet thread for old drunk people?

/please?

We're all screwed aren't we?

This issue is so complicated that anyone can say anything they want and they'll be right.

Wall Street can't lose cause if they lose, I lose.

If I lose it's ok cause Wall Street is more important than me and they need to be ok.

But it will trickle down. Come on both canidates and the mainstream media agree. A BAIL OUT PLAN MUST TAKE PLACE, right now we are just trying to bribe the dissenters to get them on board.

lol just look at CNBC, amazing how they only seem to give a shiat about the poor is when there is a 700 billion dollar bail out is in dispute.

The funny thing is the congress critters are being hammered right now probably more then they have EVER been by people opposing the bill......tick...tock...tick...tock.

The real losers are the men on the street.

Fark it! Let's pull a Tyler Durden and roll all domestic debt back to zero.

We'll, it's about damn time those Wall Street execs got some of the pie. Poor things have been so poorly compensated for all their hard work these past 8 years!

/won't someone please think of the CEOs?

That whole thing surprisingly wasn't full of the bullshiat like normal. Too bad dude only started talking that way in the last week.

Now if we could just get rid of Lindsey Graham...

I think that everyone that doesn't realize the truth behind the bailout are the sheeple that will be paying for every dime of it, and the cause of this meltdown, bankers, will continue business as usual..albeit under a different guise...
Absolutely disgusting.

Let the motherfarker burn!!!!

I would love to see some of the assholes I know lose their shirts. I, however, will not be affected by this too much.

Let these farkers drown with their crappy securities... I have some monies.. I need cd rates to go up... bring on the inflation Baby!!!

$700 billion.....that's a lot of Ameros.

tennistoad: Let these farkers drown with their crappy securities... I have some monies.. I need cd rates to go up... bring on the inflation Baby!!!

You realize your CD rates would have to go up above the rate of inflation to actually MAKE money, right?

I-Bond savings bonds issued January 2007 = 6.27% APR
5 yr CD Average = 4.14% APR
Current inflation rate (Aug 2008) = 5.37%

/CD's = FAIL

I am finally starting to believe to conspiracy nuts talking about stocking up gold,ammo and seeds. Our financial system is fundamentally flawed and there is nothing that can be done to fix it. This system is going to come to an abrupt halt. A real shiatstorm is going to happen when there just isn't anymore money to borrow. I guess we can just keep printing more until we look like Zimbabwe.

I hope I am wrong as usual and many farkers will tell me that I'm a complete moron.

I'm anti-corporate welfare, but I'm all for doing whatever we can to keep the stock market (and by extension, our economy, and by extension, the global economy) from collapsing.

I also can't take seriously any commentary on the current situation that blames the Community Reinvestment Act (which passed 30 years ago, at a time when it was very difficult to get mortgages in *ANY* urban area, no matter how rich you were, due to red-lining) and ignores the privatization of Freddie and Fannie and the deregulation of the banking industry in the 1990's.

I'm just enjoying watching farkers being confused that the only people opposed to giving 700 billion to the bankers is the conservatives like Demint. The liberals are all for it as long as they get an extra 100 billion or so to throw around to their fanboys.

BiffDangler: I'm just enjoying watching farkers being confused that the only people opposed to giving 700 billion to the bankers is the conservatives like Demint. The liberals are all for it as long as they get an extra 100 billion or so to throw around to their fanboys.

My God, just when I thought righties couldn't get any stupider.

Let Wall Street burn. Let these greedy bankers and people that took out loans they never should have pay. I don't want to see the economy tank, but if that is what it takes to clear this sewage system. Let it clear itself.

Spamdog:

So what part do you disagree with? Do you disagree that it is congressional conservatives killing the bailout? Do you disagree that the congressional dems were ok with it as long as they get money to play with, too?

BiffDangler: Spamdog:

So what part do you disagree with? Do you disagree that it is congressional conservatives killing the bailout? Do you disagree that the congressional dems were ok with it as long as they get money to play with, too?

Talk to me if it actually gets killed.

To me whats important is the atmosphere of deregulation and irresponsibility cultivated by the Republicans over the last 8 years.

DeMint is the same idiot that said single moms should not teach in schools. Maybe if Republicans would have been more interested in economic issues instead of social engineering we could have avoided this.

"To me whats important is the atmosphere of deregulation and irresponsibility cultivated by the Republicans over the last 8 years."

Really who is the only group trying to stop this pig in its tracks? The Democrats, the ones that said Mccain was needed before they asked him to leave to get this pig passed.

We have gone through this before and will again.

SO WHAT?!! It's still necessary. We can choose to TRY to screw over the "Wall Street fat cats," but we'll only end up screwing over the American people. The bailout is necessary to stop these banks from failing. We may even make some money in the long term.

Spamdog: So in other words, you disagree with nothing that I said, and, as in my original post, you are having difficulty dealing with the fact that it is conservatives opposed to the bailout, while your liberal heroes are all for it.

Republicans wanted as much deregulation as they could get, Democrats agreed with stipulations requiring banks to make risky loans. Dems score points with their base by appearing philanthropic, repubs score points with free-marketers. Both sides helped this thing along.

Now we face another great depression. While we need to assist the market, why does the bailout require the Gov't taking over businesses? Why can't they be low interest long term loans? We can set up all sorts of stipulations, like ceo pay, be first in line for company assets if it does fail, and still be (essentially) a market based system. The proposed alternative is so close to socialism I'll call it exactly that.

At the same time we set up these loans, we need to simplify our finance and tax laws. One primary set of rules with modifications based on industry and one set of accounting rules. What you report to investors is what you report and pay on to the government. Perhaps a Flat tax? It's much easier to run a business with known costs, and less expensive to do the paperwork.

/used to be a republican. now an independent.
//I identify with the many ideals of the republican party, but i cannot stomach the leaders of it.
///The party left me, and I have learned much from the last eight years. and no, the dems are not superior.
////slashies

BiffDangler: So in other words, you disagree with nothing that I said, and, as in my original post, you are having difficulty dealing with the fact that it is conservatives opposed to the bailout, while your liberal heroes are all for it.

Not really. It's just that I'm more interested in what caused it in the first place, instead of playing some pathetic after-the-fact blame game.

"SO WHAT?!! It's still necessary. We can choose to TRY to screw over the "Wall Street fat cats," but we'll only end up screwing over the American people. The bailout is necessary to stop these banks from failing. We may even make some money in the long term."

Really, are you sure of that? Why in the world should the American taxpayer be saddled with this debt. This not a war debt, this is not a gorvernment debt. This is Wall Streets debt. We have been through this before, I have come to a horrid conclusion with some of the lefties on this site. This is a bill to protect a few, not the many.

RanDomino: This issue is so complicated that anyone can say anything they want and they'll be right.

Well put.

Republican Senator Jim DeMint: Wall Street will "come out like bandits" on the bailout plan




.



.



.





Commissars and pin-stripe bosses
Roll the dice.
Any way they fall,
Guess who gets to pay the price.
Money green or proletarian gray,
Selling guns 'stead of food today.


So the kids they dance
And shake their bones,
And the politicians throwin' stones,
Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down.
Ashes, ashes, all fall down.

Mica has a different story, bucko.

This country's companies ability to get credit is in serious jeopardy. There are peole being laid off as we speak because their companies can't
get credit to order good and materials to keep peole working. Banks can't give credit to anyone right now. Something has to be done and yeah its not going to be pretty but to not act will hurt the United States for a long time.

Oh yeah nice try at the new meme republicans saying that the bailout will buy every bad mortgage. Even during a financial crisis they play racial/class politics.

The people pushing this plan are Bush and the Democrats in Congress. The Republicans are largely against it. So I guess the people biatching about Bush are on the side of the Republicans in general.

What he really meant was "Those of us who saw this coming six months ago will make out like bandits regardless of how the bailout plan comes out."

Because this was in the wind when the Orange County housing market collapsed lo these many months ago in spring, and, as always, the rest of the country paid not the slightest bit of attention. "As goes California, so goes the rest of the country."

There is no crisis.

Some companies are going bankrupt, and doing all the biatching and political manipulating they can to prevent it or get something out of it. That's all.

Sometimes companies shouldn't be borrowing money. They should never be depending on loans for things like materials or payroll; only for things like optional expansions.

A market where prices only go up doesn't work.

Anyone who knows the score can see how the chips will fall: They screw up, we get higher prices or worse stuff or layoffs. Of course they're not going to lose anything. That's the whole point of this scheme.

This issue is so complicated that anyone can say anything they want and they'll be right.

No, this is a VERY simple problem:
* via lax REGULATION we allowed key financial institutions to speculate in investment vehicles
* they failed: now we think that it's our responsibility to bail them out (this debate will last another 50 years)
* we have refused address the derivative problem that emerged with Enron, to-wit derivatives are treated as equals to stocks & bonds. So the shysters have exploited that situation.

We will continually face this until we set up proper valuation rules for derivatives (CDOs, credit fault swaps, etc.)

We were through this first with McCain and the Keating Five, when deregulation was "magic" and allowed financial scam artists to use federal deposit guarantees to engage in the most-speculative of loans. In finance it's called the "agent problem" -- but the sophistication of our politicians to deal with it is less than zero.

/Even though the president has an MBA.
//Which says legions about the negative value of a Hahvahd MBA.
///Slashies.

Free Market.

That is all /obscure?

Larofeticus: There is no crisis.

Some companies are going bankrupt, and doing all the biatching and political manipulating they can to prevent it or get something out of it. That's all.

You're a farking idiot: we are standing on the brink of a major economic collapse in this country.

We can either stand by and let it happen (like we did in '29) or we can stop it now.

I don't know who on TV was saying it tonight, but I thought they said it perfectly (I'll paraphrase it):

You can't save Wall Street and punish Wall Street at the same time.

As much as we may hate it, we have to do this bailout.

If we don't our economy is farking hosed for years to come.

Saborlas: Wasn't "coming out like bandits" the entire POINT of the Bush Administration?

DING DING DING DING... ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

"This country's companies ability to get credit is in serious jeopardy. There are peole being laid off as we speak because their companies can't
get credit to order good and materials to keep peole working. Banks can't give credit to anyone right now. Something has to be done and yeah its not going to be pretty but to not act will hurt the United States for a long time.

Oh yeah nice try at the new meme republicans saying that the bailout will buy every bad mortgage. Even during a financial crisis they play racial/class politics."

Bullshiat, a good company would have a working capital fund and would not be borrowing to make payroll. To those losing thier jobs sorry been there and done that. Worked for several companies in the past few years that have outsourced my job.

I now work for a company that has money in the bank for these times. Also I learned years ago to not over extend myself on credit. People trying to sell me ARM mortages are amazed that I have more equidy in my crummy home than I owe and I have no credit card debt.

Even more so I have saved a few thousand dollars to protect my meager assests. My boat and car are paid for, my home is my only liability. So to all those whining screw you, embrace personal responsibilty and you will come out ahead.

spamdog: Not really. It's just that I'm more interested in what caused it in the first place, instead of playing some pathetic after-the-fact blame game.

hindsight is 2020, the preoblem is here.

I wonder if Senator DeMint is a descendant of Count DeMoney?

Omnivorous:
/Even though the president has an MBA.
//Which says legions about the negative value of a Hahvahd MBA.
///Slashies.

/He was wearing my Hahvahd tie
//Like, oh, sure, HE went to Hahvahd

^{It required the banks to make loans to people who couldn't afford them as part of our social programming. Congress also created Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy mortgages from banks all over the country.}

Okay, so nobody won the class war and now society is in ruins. Time to let another empire take over!

"Okay, so nobody won the class war and now society is in ruins. Time to let another empire take over!'

Be careful what you wish for. China has no problem with taking dissedents out on the street and executing them. As much as it may be a good thing it is bad for democracy.