I'm not defending O'Reilly but that ad was over the top. The mistake was airing it in the first place.

I don't think it's so over the top to ask if the man will live for his term, given his age and health. If he was confident he would, why not release his medical info (before we get a Pres. Caribou Barbie)?

The ad I can't view aside, every candidate's health is important. I don't think it's too much for everyone to fully open up their medical histories.

Why are CNN, MSNBC, etc so terrified of being called liberal? FOX and AM radio gets away with blatant bias, and millions take their word for gospel truth. But the moment a newspaper or TV network even slightly leans left, everyone starts panicking and apologizing.

That Ad was terrible. It had a Republican, play to your fears, sort of feel.

FireBreathingLiberal: I'm not defending O'Reilly but that ad was over the top. The mistake was airing it in the first place.

Came to say this.

Insurance_EE_guy: That Ad was terrible. It had a Republican, play to your fears, sort of feel.

Well, yeah. That's because those kinds of ads work wonders. Just ask the French-looking flip-flopper who faked his Vietnam injuries.

I saw the ad and thought it was uninformative and stunk of Karl Rove politics. MSNBC did the right thing.

smooshie: Why are CNN, MSNBC, etc so terrified of being called liberal? FOX and AM radio gets away with blatant bias, and millions take their word for gospel truth. But the moment a newspaper or TV network even slightly leans left, everyone starts panicking and apologizing.

Yep. And Republican candidates for president know it - just look at what happens EVERY SINGLE TIME McCain whines about the media being biased for Obama.

"OMG, WE'RE LIBERAL! Are we liberal, guys? Holy shiat, we're totally in the tank for Obama? Up next - is our horrible liberal bias upsetting voters? Next on OMG WE'RE LIBERAL!"

robsul82: Yep. And Republican candidates for president know it - just look at what happens EVERY SINGLE TIME McCain whines about the media being biased for Obama.

To be fair, the same thing happened when SNL portrayed the media as being in the tank for Obama. For the next month, Hillary was awesome and Obama was crazy-Wright-empty-suit.

I didn't think it was over the top. It stated facts. McCain needs to release information that will allay concerns that his medical condition isn't as bad as Cheney's, who is considered too old and unhealthy to run (even though McCain is older). The odds I've seen put McCain in the grave before the end of a second term. This is a concern, when you have Caribou Barbie in the number 2 spot.

It was done by a PAC as I recall. I was rather disappointed. Uncalled for and unnecessary.

I'll agree that the tone of the ad was not good, but when I actually saw photos of McCain's melanoma, I started filling out my passport documents and seeing what the conditions were to practice medicine in other countries.

That stuff was at least a moderate Breslow thickness(making it at least a stage IIb cancer). Which is really scary since the 10 year survival of stage IIb is like 65%. And it had hypopigmented regions, it's on his face and he's an elderly (>65), white male - all poor prognostic factors.

And we don't even know his node status.

With Palin as his VP, his candidacy terrifies me.

Benevolent Misanthrope: It stated facts

Barack Obama plays basketball... Charles Barkley plays basketball... is Charles Barkley ready to lead?? Or will he gamble it all away, like he did in Vegas.

Barack Obama wants Universal Healthcare... Health care for the ENTIRE UNIVERSE?!... Including Osama Bin-Laden?!??

honeymaid8: I'll agree that the tone of the ad was not good, but when I actually saw photos of McCain's melanoma, I started filling out my passport documents and seeing what the conditions were to practice medicine in other countries.

That stuff was at least a moderate Breslow thickness(making it at least a stage IIb cancer). Which is really scary since the 10 year survival of stage IIb is like 65%. And it had hypopigmented regions, it's on his face and he's an elderly (>65), white male - all poor prognostic factors.

And we don't even know his node status.

With Palin as his VP, his candidacy terrifies me.

It's definitely an area of concern. But I'd hate to see it sink him. He should be defeated for lots of other reasons, rendering his cancer status moot.

smooshie: robsul82: Yep. And Republican candidates for president know it - just look at what happens EVERY SINGLE TIME McCain whines about the media being biased for Obama.

To be fair, the same thing happened when SNL portrayed the media as being in the tank for Obama. For the next month, Hillary was awesome and Obama was crazy-Wright-empty-suit.

Oh, yeah, sure.

smooshie
Why are CNN, MSNBC, etc so terrified of being called liberal? FOX and AM radio gets away with blatant bias, and millions take their word for gospel truth. But the moment a newspaper or TV network even slightly leans left, everyone starts panicking and apologizing.

I blame Michael Dukakis. Taking the way back machine to 1988...

Bush Sr. campaign: Dukakis is a liberal!
Dukakis: Nuh uh! Am not! I'm a conservative! I swear!
Democrats: WTF?

Oh, and in their news coverage some networks actually make a go at being objective, though these days they're more apt to try to preserve a phoney balance like a "teaching the controversy!" approach. It's Fox News that's blatantly in the tank for one side even in their regular news coverage.

Diogenes: honeymaid8: I'll agree that the tone of the ad was not good, but when I actually saw photos of McCain's melanoma, I started filling out my passport documents and seeing what the conditions were to practice medicine in other countries.

That stuff was at least a moderate Breslow thickness(making it at least a stage IIb cancer). Which is really scary since the 10 year survival of stage IIb is like 65%. And it had hypopigmented regions, it's on his face and he's an elderly (>65), white male - all poor prognostic factors.

And we don't even know his node status.

With Palin as his VP, his candidacy terrifies me.

It's definitely an area of concern. But I'd hate to see it sink him. He should be defeated for lots of other reasons, rendering his cancer status moot.

The only reason that I find it relevant is his VP pick. I would be offended if one of my patient's employers felt that they couldn't do their jobs because of their risk of cancer death, but my patients are not choosing their own successors. McCain is and it's shaping up to be a sorry choice at that.

Insurance_EE_guy: Benevolent Misanthrope: It stated facts

Barack Obama plays basketball... Charles Barkley plays basketball... is Charles Barkley ready to lead?? Or will he gamble it all away, like he did in Vegas.

Barack Obama wants Universal Healthcare... Health care for the ENTIRE UNIVERSE?!... Including Osama Bin-Laden?!??

Not quite. More like:

Teacher: It's a known fact that athletes don't perform as well academically.

Coach: Barkley was the lowest scoring student when it came to academics. All he knows how to do is play basketball. He's hired other people to actually run things for him.

Harvard Administrator: Our job description says that the person who is President of the University must have a proven record of scholarly achievement and academic success, plus administrative experience.

Announcer: Charles Barkley has applied. Is Charles Barkley ready to be President of Harvard? Why hasn't he released his college transcripts?

This one is a tough one for me.

It was slightly over the top, but the points are valid. Nothing was really twisted, except *maybe* overhyping the chance of him getting cancer again. But the true chances I don't know, so maybe that was fine. It was clearly an opinion. My problem with ads like this are when facts are omitted or twisted.

The life expectancy of a white male in the US is 75.7. He will be older than this when he leaves his first term. Add in the fact that he has had cancer, I have to believe that number goes down.

It is a very valid point, especially considering the outside the box choice he made for VP.

honeymaid8: The only reason that I find it relevant is his VP pick. I would be offended if one of my patient's employers felt that they couldn't do their jobs because of their risk of cancer death, but my patients are not choosing their own successors. McCain is and it's shaping up to be a sorry choice at that.

By "unfit" they meant "dead." They just didn't want to come out and say that. But that is, essentially, what the ad said.

downstairs:

The life expectancy of a white male in the US is 75.7. He will be older than this when he leaves his first term. Add in the fact that he has had cancer, I have to believe that number goes down.

It is a very valid point, especially considering the outside the box choice he made for VP.

It's entirely valid because of his choice. She's a clueless nut. We're in for a world of hurt with her in charge.

Now what's this about MSNBC pulling Olbermann and Matthews?

downstairs: By "unfit" they meant "dead." They just didn't want to come out and say that. But that is, essentially, what the ad said.

Well in that "unfit"="dead"="Palin"

Yes.

50mm: Now what's this about MSNBC pulling Olbermann and Matthews?

They pulled them as anchors and made them reporters during the convention because they were far too opinionated (a good move).

downstairs: 50mm: Now what's this about MSNBC pulling Olbermann and Matthews?

They pulled them as anchors and made them reporters during the convention because they were far too opinionated (a good move).

Oh, that. I thought that meant they were off the air entirely, which would be a ratings nightmare for MSNBC.

/back to regular level outrage

Like these ads won't be coming from any 527 on any subject imaginable for either candidate?

Wow, get a spine MSNBC. It's not like O'Really? has a shred of dignity himself.

/What a joke

hey, doesn't Obama smoke cigarettes?
cigarettes cause cancer!!1!
the thought of a Biden presidency terrifies me.

see how crazy that sounds?

Spamzilla: hey, doesn't Obama smoke cigarettes?
cigarettes cause cancer!!1!
the thought of a Biden presidency terrifies me.

see how crazy that sounds?

Eh, Obama didn't have cancer and he's also not 72. Other than that it's a fair analogy.

McCain has lived through much worse circumstances.

50mm: Other than that it's a fair analogy.

Except for the part where Biden isn't a half-witted religious nut.

So, yeah, other than the part where Obama has a pristine bill of health, is quite young, and his successor isn't insane, it's an excellent analogy.

Good job.

Someone should find out if MSNBC ever carried the Swift Boat ads. Let's see how sensitive they are.

Spamzilla: hey, doesn't Obama smoke cigarettes?
cigarettes cause cancer!!1!
the thought of a Biden presidency terrifies me.

see how crazy that sounds?

Um, no. And here's where stats are your friend.

1)A ten pack-year (that's one pack a day for ten years) history of cigarette smoking increases your overall cancer risk 4-5 fold.

2)Given that a)Obama doesn't smoke that much, b)the overall cancer risk for a 47 year old black man is exceedingly low and c)the risk of death of those with cancer within the next 4-8 years is (overall, at his age bracket) approximately 60% (pessimistic view), his risk of death is much lower for health reasons In other words the likelihood that he'll survive (baring events with hot lead) is about average.

3)The risk of death in the next 4 years for McCain due to factors we know of is 35%.

4)As I said before, if any of my patients would be refused employment on their cancer status, I would be enraged. I refuse McCain's employment on his airhead of a VP, and anyone who says 'oh the vp doesn't do anything important' I say 35%.

So, no, it's not silly.

Calmamity: 50mm: Other than that it's a fair analogy.

Except for the part where Biden isn't a half-witted religious nut.

So, yeah, other than the part where Obama has a pristine bill of health, is quite young, and his successor isn't insane, it's an excellent analogy.

Good job.

I was giving the benefit of the doubt that somebody could have an equal dislike to Biden that Palin shares among those of us with a body temperature roughly in the 90's. I'm not saying it's rational, but remember we're talking about neocons here.

So, Bill, I guess those 527 ads airing on FoxNews that claim Obama is a sekrit mooslim and won't salute the flag pin he doesn't wear because he isn't really an American citizen are perfectly ok then.

Just so we're being consistent here.

Spamzilla: hey, doesn't Obama smoke cigarettes?
cigarettes cause cancer!!1!
the thought of a Biden presidency terrifies me.

see how crazy that sounds?

Diogenes: But I'd hate to see it sink him. He should be defeated for lots of other reasons

I love my country, so I don't care what sinks him. If it's people knowing about his skin cancer or knowing about Palin's affairs or people seeing him lose his temper or people actually reading through his catastrophic list of policies (Though to be fair those actually change week-to-week), so long as it's SOMETHING, I don't care what.

Mors: Diogenes: But I'd hate to see it sink him. He should be defeated for lots of other reasons

I love my country, so I don't care what sinks him. If it's people knowing about his skin cancer or knowing about Palin's affairs or people seeing him lose his temper or people actually reading through his catastrophic list of policies (Though to be fair those actually change week-to-week), so long as it's SOMETHING, I don't care what.

Not that I'd advocate it as a strategy for Obama, but leaving McCain and Palin to their own devices seems to be doing pretty damned well ;-)

i don't think it's too out of line to be concerned about the health of a candidate. I do have a problem with the focus on McCain's age. IMO, it's just as bad to discriminate against McCain because of his age as it is to discriminate against Obama because of the color of his skin. But that's just me.

FireBreathingLiberal: I'm not defending O'Reilly but that ad was over the top. The mistake was airing it in the first place.

THIS. Obama doesn't need that organization's "help". Leave the sleaze to McCain and his tosspot constituency.

/GOBAMA'08

When you know it's Bill O'Reilly asking it is really Rupert Murdoch.

:::shivers:::

No link to the ad?

O'reilly wouldn't stop talking about how horrible that ad was. He "warned" his viewers before showing it, even.

It's pretty farking mild, IMO. Not 1/10 as bad as Swiftboat or any number of other things run in the last election.

I saw that ad 3 times last night, and hated it each time. No need for that garbage, McCain can create enough stupid on his own without that ad.

Bill O' still sucks noodle, but he's so correct here. I can't believe MSNBC would ok that ad.

Didn't the Republicans give Kerry hell for not releasing his medical records?

Here's the ad:


Link (new window)

honeymaid8: I'll agree that the tone of the ad was not good, but when I actually saw photos of McCain's melanoma, I started filling out my passport documents and seeing what the conditions were to practice medicine in other countries.

I'll take this opportunity to invite you to our lovely home. You won't make as much money, but you will be well paid. You standard of living will likely remain the same or increase. Your taxes will probably increase, but you'll get stuff for them. And you will be paid in a more stable currency.

Here is where you get started (new window)

Here's another one of their ads. Their not fit to wipe the Swift Boaters butts.

Link (new window)

Knight without armor: Here's another one of their ads. Their not fit to wipe the Swift Boaters butts.

Link (new window)

A politically motivated hatchet job is a politically motivated hatchet job. I'm not sure you get to pick and choose.