Well yes... and if the Catholic Church had had a major theologian in its first 400 years who was

a) a woman
b) a mother

these silly debates might not have ever needed to happen.

Come to think of it, I can't think of a female theologian with children before 1950.

Anytime a politician starts arguing theology, you know the bullshiat is coming. This country needs to embrace the notion that politicians and theologians need to stay out of each other's business.

We'll give religion a pass with respect to getting involved with politics (well, the right religion anyway), but no crossing the line in the other direction. No way.

Whatever.

Republic politicians try to dictate names of other political parties, douchebaggery ensues.

robsul82: Republic politicians try to dictate names of other political parties, douchebaggery ensues.

I like "Rublicans" and "Replicans."

this koolaid tastes kind of funny

I think abortion is wrong....but you know what? I'm not going to pass a law saying you can't have one. Free will is like that - you have to be given the opportunity to choose options that I might consider wrong, otherwise NONE of us are really 'free'.

as a theology enthusiast, I am greatly offended by the left's smear tactics. Or, I would be, if it wasn't so f*cking prevalant...

FTFA: What impulse makes Catholic politicians try to argue theology with their own church?

I suppose it's the same impulse that makes all Catholics argue theology with their own church. Since Augustine of Hippo there's been a disconnect between whatever it is that people experience in prayer and the rituals & codes of an entrenched religious bureaucracy.

Weaver95: I think abortion is wrong....but you know what? I'm not going to pass a law saying you can't have one. Free will is like that - you have to be given the opportunity to choose options that I might consider wrong, otherwise NONE of us are really 'free'.

Because I like arson, shouldn't it, by your logic, be OK?

Abortion is MURDER. Hell, Arson's not as bad as murder, is it?

"Consider just the fact that Biden was declaring his own Catholic position on embryonic stem cells to be uncaring. As the philosopher Francis Beckwith observed of the incident, this is a
man who won't even force his beliefs on himself."

Best line from the article.

Weaver95

You just nailed it, and it only took you two measly lines of text. Good work!

Tacoby Bellisbury: Hell, Arson's not as bad as murder, is it?

-Not when it's for insurance purposes.

And, for the love of God, it's Democratic.

Tacoby Bellisbury: Weaver95: I think abortion is wrong....but you know what? I'm not going to pass a law saying you can't have one. Free will is like that - you have to be given the opportunity to choose options that I might consider wrong, otherwise NONE of us are really 'free'.

Because I like arson, shouldn't it, by your logic, be OK?

Abortion is MURDER. Hell, Arson's not as bad as murder, is it?

Arson, as you well know, is an entirely different from abortion.

Look, I realize you don't like it. I don't either. But I'm not going to tell someone else they can't do it because that is between that woman and God, not me. I'm not going to take the place of God and say 'you cannot do this, I forbid it'.

ALL Catholics dictate theology. Every last one of them interprets the bible to some extent or another to arrive at the dictates of their personal faith. Some allow for changes in the times, and some seem to go mostly by the old testament and ignore a bunch of the later stuff. Hell, the Pope is supposed to be the ultimate authority, and a number of Catholics respectfully disagree with him on issues like birth control.

So when a Catholic politician tells me his or her faith led them to a specific decision, I don't try to assign that particular belief to ALL members of the Catholic church. Just like in any other large group, reasonable minds may differ.

Tacoby Bellisbury: Abortion is MURDER. Hell, Arson's not as bad as murder, is it?

So if it's murder, then why are people talking about punishing doctors, but treating women as "victims?"

Look, the GOP doesn't give two flips about abortion. It was picked as a wedge issue in the 70's to win over Catholic votes. Nevermind that the Catholic Church teaches that workers have an inherent human right to unionize; that unrestrained capitalism is just as bad as socialism; and that criminalization of things like abortion alone will not solve the problem.

Not to mention, do you purchase products from any of these companies? Guess what - you participate in abortion. Sounds like you need to start boycotting.

They really need to start a Reformed Catholic Church of America or something for these faux Roman Catholics. Martin Luther had the guts to do it, how about you and Nancy there Joe?

DandamanFL: They really need to start a Reformed Catholic Church of America or something for these faux Roman Catholics. Martin Luther had the guts to do it, how about you and Nancy there Joe?

That sounds like a great idea for the faux conservative Catholics who worship Ayn Rand and Rush Limbaugh rather than Jesus Christ.

Tacoby Bellisbury: Weaver95: I think abortion is wrong....but you know what? I'm not going to pass a law saying you can't have one. Free will is like that - you have to be given the opportunity to choose options that I might consider wrong, otherwise NONE of us are really 'free'.

Because I like arson, shouldn't it, by your logic, be OK?

Abortion is MURDER. Hell, Arson's not as bad as murder, is it?

Hey, if you don't agree with abortions then that's your business. If you are trying to say that it's perfectly okay to ban abortions totally because of your personal views then DIAF. I'm pro-choice, not pro-abortion.

Nabb1: Anytime a politician starts arguing theology, you know the bullshiat is coming. This country needs to embrace the notion that politicians and theologians need to stay out of each other's business.

This.

(Nabb1 it seems like we only this each other when I am talking about neither candidate being a fiscal conservative or you are talking about the separation of church and state)

LocalCynic: DandamanFL: They really need to start a Reformed Catholic Church of America or something for these faux Roman Catholics. Martin Luther had the guts to do it, how about you and Nancy there Joe?

That sounds like a great idea for the faux conservative Catholics who worship Ayn Rand and Rush Limbaugh rather than Jesus Christ.

If we'd only actually listened to Rand we wouldn't BE in our current mess.

ah well.

A Dark Evil Omen: robsul82: Republic politicians try to dictate names of other political parties, douchebaggery ensues.

I like "Rublicans" and "Replicans."

I just cut right to the chase and call them Reptilians...

I hate abortion.

I hate what the Republican party has done to this country over the last 8 years even more.

That is all.

DandamanFL: They really need to start a Reformed Catholic Church of America or something for these faux Roman Catholics. Martin Luther had the guts to do it, how about you and Nancy there Joe?

You expect politicians to become religious leaders?

Nabb1: Anytime a politician starts arguing theology, you know the bullshiat is coming. This country needs to embrace the notion that politicians and theologians need to stay out of each other's business.

There's quite a bit of truth in this statement.

Weaver95: I think abortion is wrong....but you know what? I'm not going to pass a law saying you can't have one. Free will is like that - you have to be given the opportunity to choose options that I might consider wrong, otherwise NONE of us are really 'free'.

Sarah, is that you?

lexslamman: I hate abortion.

I hate what the Republican party has done to this country over the last 8 years even more.

That is all.

What's worse is that someone could be completely and totally qualified to run for office, have a terrific economic plan and be absolutely free of corruption....but they won't get elected because they're on the wrong side of the pro-life/pro-choice debate for their local area.

Weaver95: Look, I realize you don't like it. I don't either. But I'm not going to tell someone else they can't do it because that is between that woman and God, not me. I'm not going to take the place of God and say 'you cannot do this, I forbid it'.

I think that abortion could be regulated more but that is still treating the symptom. The reason a women gets an abortion is because of an unwanted pregnancy. Better sex ed and easy to obtain contraceptives would lower the number of abortions.

actually Pelosi and Biden are right and The writer of the article is wrong. Catholic Dogma permitted abortion until "the quickening", which is when they believed the fetus was ensouled well into the middle ages. The idea that Aquinas condemned all abortions is modern revisionism pure and simple.

Magorn: actually Pelosi and Biden are right and The writer of the article is wrong. Catholic Dogma permitted abortion until "the quickening", which is when they believed the fetus was ensouled well into the middle ages. The idea that Aquinas condemned all abortions is modern revisionism pure and simple.

It wasn't a life until it drew its first breath until well after the times of Jesus.

I for one am thrilled we have politicians who choose not to base policy on Catholicism.

judan: I for one am thrilled we have politicians who choose not to base policy on Catholicism.

I second that...

DandamanFL: They really need to start a Reformed Catholic Church of America or something for these faux Roman Catholics. Martin Luther had the guts to do it, how about you and Nancy there Joe?

you shut your pirate whore emo hippie protestant fag-mouth while the papists are talking!

Weaver95: I think abortion is wrong....but you know what? I'm not going to pass a law saying you can't have one. Free will is like that - you have to be given the opportunity to choose options that I might consider wrong, otherwise NONE of us are really 'free'.

FTW!

Even the damn Catholics cant agree.

So why bother?

Oh, and the following is for all "Bible believing Christians".

If you exclude more than 3/4 of the gospels, you arent getting the whole story.

/it's a nice fairy tale tho.
//apart from the wanton violence, blatant sexism, and idiocy, that is.

I think abortion is wrong....but you know what? I'm not going to pass a law saying you can't have one. Free will is like that - you have to be given the opportunity to choose options that I might consider wrong, otherwise NONE of us are really 'free'.

What kind of gutless thinking is that? You don't think you should impose your morality on others, because it limits other's freedom? (That is what laws do, by the way.) What about the unborn? Should they be denied all rights, even the right to live, if the mother so chooses? Why?

If not, how would one try to remedy this wholesale slaughter of innocent lives unless they spoke up and tried to change the law - by imposing your will and seeking to influence folks for change?

I always find it ironic that those who vocally support animal rights, while opposing the death penalty for the worst of humanity are just as loud in their support for the right to deny life to the most innocent and defenseless, and will angrily justify this form of killing and try to silence its opposition.

Prophetica Insipia: BlameBushiathink abortion is wrong....but you know what? I'm not going to pass a law saying you can't have one. Free will is like that - you have to be given the opportunity to choose options that I might consider wrong, otherwise NONE of us are really 'free'.

What kind of gutless thinking is that? You don't think you should impose your morality on others, because it limits other's freedom? (That is what laws do, by the way.) What about the unborn? Should they be denied all rights, even the right to live, if the mother so chooses? Why?

If not, how would one try to remedy this wholesale slaughter of innocent lives unless they spoke up and tried to change the law - by imposing your will and seeking to influence folks for change?

I always find it ironic that those who vocally support animal rights, while opposing the death penalty for the worst of humanity are just as loud in their support for the right to deny life to the most innocent and defenseless, and will angrily justify this form of killing and try to silence its opposition.

2/10.

Meh.

/swing and a miss.

Wtf is that shiat?

HTML fails me.

Oh well. *shrugs*

Zagloba: Well yes... and if the Catholic Church had had a major theologian in its first 400 years who was

a) a woman
b) a mother

these silly debates might not have ever needed to happen.

Come to think of it, I can't think of a female theologian with children before 1950.

Of course. We all know women enjoy murdering babies more than men.

Seriously. I was for abortion but now against it because of science. There really is no way to excuse it anymore. Better get preggers and kill as many as you can before they outlaw it. Good luck!

Biden and Pelosi are actually right. Before the canard the "life begins at conception" became widelya accepted doctrine in order to use religion to help Republicans get elected, it was widely known that:

1) There is no unequivocal Biblical statement on when life begins.

2) Historically, throughout Christendom, life was held not to begin until the quickening, or roughly 90-120 days into the pregnancy.

3) Abortion is therefore Biblically permissible at any time before the quickening.

Prophetica Insipia: Wtf is that shiat?

HTML fails me.

Oh well. *shrugs*

Yeah, blame the HTML.
Republican.

Acronym-American's unite!

lordaction: Zagloba: Well yes... and if the Catholic Church had had a major theologian in its first 400 years who was

a) a woman
b) a mother

these silly debates might not have ever needed to happen.

Come to think of it, I can't think of a female theologian with children before 1950.

Of course. We all know women enjoy murdering babies more than men.

Seriously. I was for abortion but now against it because of science. There really is no way to excuse it anymore. Better get preggers and kill as many as you can before they outlaw it. Good luck!

Science supports the opinion that abortion is morally permissible, provided it occurs at a sufficiently early stage of the pregnancy.

captain_heroic44: lordaction: Zagloba: Well yes... and if the Catholic Church had had a major theologian in its first 400 years who was

a) a woman
b) a mother

these silly debates might not have ever needed to happen.

Come to think of it, I can't think of a female theologian with children before 1950.

Of course. We all know women enjoy murdering babies more than men.

Seriously. I was for abortion but now against it because of science. There really is no way to excuse it anymore. Better get preggers and kill as many as you can before they outlaw it. Good luck!

Science supports the opinion that abortion is morally permissible, provided it occurs at a sufficiently early stage of the pregnancy.

I agree completely.

There are no Democrat politicians you grammarless Limbaugh chode-licking submittard.

rathoth: Prophetica Insipia: Wtf is that shiat?

HTML fails me.

Oh well. *shrugs*

Yeah, blame the HTML.
Republican.

Acronym-American's unite!

Republican!?!?!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I dont make enough money to be a republican,
and I have higher brain function.

/they hate that.

I'm also not a Democrat.

I think for myself.

/Plebian.

hasty ambush: "Consider just the fact that Biden was declaring his own Catholic position on embryonic stem cells to be uncaring. As the philosopher Francis Beckwith observed of the incident, this is a
man who won't even force his beliefs on himself."

Best line from the article.

Except, of course, Catholics don't believe in forcing anything upon themselves.

quizzical: Hell, the Pope is supposed to be the ultimate authority,

This is just untrue. The Pope is never the ultimate authority on anything. It is the church itself which is the ultimate authority and the Pope's words are only binding when he speaks with the approval of the church and for the church.

worlddan: hasty ambush: "Consider just the fact that Biden was declaring his own Catholic position on embryonic stem cells to be uncaring. As the philosopher Francis Beckwith observed of the incident, this is a
man who won't even force his beliefs on himself."

Best line from the article.

Except, of course, Catholics don't believe in forcing anything upon themselves.

Not even reproductive responsibility!

Muad'dibs Ghola: worlddan: hasty ambush: "Consider just the fact that Biden was declaring his own Catholic position on embryonic stem cells to be uncaring. As the philosopher Francis Beckwith observed of the incident, this is a
man who won't even force his beliefs on himself."

Best line from the article.

Except, of course, Catholics don't believe in forcing anything upon themselves.

Not even reproductive responsibility!

Exactly. Children are a gift from God, just as faith is a God-given grace. A belief or an action which is forced is never a true belief or a true action under Catholic theology and so it counts for nothing.