What a truly awesome story about our government working to solve real issues. Too bad this won't get greenlighted, and no one will ever hear about this program.

willydwonka: What a truly awesome story....Too bad this won't get greenlighted

Yeah, I heard about it on the radio this morning. I thought it was pretty awesome. Couldn't bring myself to snark it up to main page standards. =P

/subby

When did we run out of napalm?

From what I've read of opium farming, it's not uncommon for opium growers and their families to become addicted to their own crop. I hope they detox the famers before trying to help them grow corn or something.

One of the problems with trying to replace opium with something more acceptable is that opium is a VERY profitable crop. the end product stores easy, is simple to transport and it travels well. Other agricultural products won't necessarily find a market, nor will they be as easy to process and transport.

Isotope: willydwonka: What a truly awesome story....Too bad this won't get greenlighted

Well I'll be damned. =D


Weaver95: it's not uncommon for opium growers and their families to become addicted to their own crop

That sucks. Staves off hunger I suppose...like South American kids chewing on coca leaves perhaps?

They might do a little better growing traditional crops than they might have in earlier years seeing as the US is turning a bunch more of what we grow into fuel rather than exporting it. Here's hoping....

Isotope: That sucks. Staves off hunger I suppose...like South American kids chewing on coca leaves perhaps?

well...as I understand it, part of monitoring the crop involves cutting the bulbs and letting the sap leak out. then as the plant grows, the farmers come by and scrape sap out of the bulb and taste it to see if/when it's ready for harvesting. They do this for years, and the sap is, of course, poppy juice. Even in it's raw and very bitter state it's still addictive as hell.

They might do a little better growing traditional crops than they might have in earlier years seeing as the US is turning a bunch more of what we grow into fuel rather than exporting it. Here's hoping....

part of the problem with switching over to other crops is that the farmers will now have to adjust to lower prices and a market that's much more volitile. Opium demand is *always* 'high' (pardon the pun). lots of demand drives up prices. Food markets are somewhat more flexible when it comes to prices.

Why is it our business how they make their money in their country?

Mugato: Why is it our business how they make their money in their country?

if it would only STAY in their country it wouldn't be a problem.

operation squanto

Clearly the mods set out to prove me wrong. Those guys just do NOT like me today.

I was just kidding about calling you guys jerks earlier. You're all swell in my book.

willydwonka: What a truly awesome story about our government working to solve real issues. Too bad this won't get greenlighted, and no one will ever hear about this program.

oh yeah?

aracnop: willydwonka: What a truly awesome story about our government working to solve real issues. Too bad this won't get greenlighted, and no one will ever hear about this program.

oh yeah?

YEAH!

dahuka: operation squanto

*shakes fist*

Why the hell is that a problem? We need more opium in the world.

Opium would put big drug companies right out of business.

How?
Is one cured? No.
Does one care? Also no.

Mugato
Why is it our business how they make their money in their country?

You mean teach them how they can feed themselves and grow crops that make money instead of relying on support from local warlords or aid shipments while growing crops that fund genocide?

Yeah, that sounds like a bad plan. Lets continue to fund a way of life that's kept their society in a state of war for thousands of years.

My neighbor is one of the people going over with the Indiana unit, from what I understand they are worried about the farmers taking some of the tricks for the other crops and applying it to grow more opium. But here is to hoping that this program has a positive impact on this area.

Remember people, Afghanistan is the good war, Iraq is the bad don't go getting them confused and start a flamewar that makes you look like an idiot.

I think it's great that the Afghani Farmers are willing to share their Opium growing techniques with our down-home American farmers.

"agribusiness development teams" for both countries are going to win!

Weaver95:
One of the problems with trying to replace opium with something more acceptable is that opium is a VERY profitable crop. the end product stores easy, is simple to transport and it travels well. Other agricultural products won't necessarily find a market, nor will they be as easy to process and transport.

Most of the farmers being helped won't ever notice the difference. They're not the ones who profit off the opium, and so they live at subsistence levels. The only Afghanis who ever really got anything out of the opium trade have been the warlords, and they're being brought in line with other methods.

My neighbor is from Afghanistan and he tells me all the opium farmers have anal worms. Not sure why that is thouh, I'll have to ask.

Now can the Afghanistan farmers teach our National Guard Troops how to grow opium.
/America keep the dollars here.

Step 1. Teach them to grow corn.

Step 2. Oh noes, we can't sell all this corn, whatever can we do with it all??

Step 3. Teach them how to make whiskey.

Step 4. Convert them to Christianity.

Step 5. Profit.

JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: Step 1. Teach them to grow corn.

Step 2. Oh noes, we can't sell all this corn, whatever can we do with it all?? Import biofuel from the middle east.

Step 3. Teach them how to make whiskey.

Step 4. Convert them to Christianity.

Step 5. Profit.

The SC Army National Guard was working this same program throughout our deployment in 2007, but doesn't appear to have made much progress.

I suspect that a large part of the problem is the lack of reliable transportation infrastructure in the country. There's really only one reliable paved road, that goes kind of in a circle around the inside of the country. And it has numerous washouts and places where the road is essentially nothing but potholes for miles on end. We're putting a lot of money into helping the Afghans pay to rebuild this infrastructure, but even after it's rebuilt there's still the problem of physical security of the roadways.

The Taliban frequently plant IED's in the pavement, or in culverts (cement pipes) that the roads pass over, and when these are detonated they result in impassable sections of the road. We've had the Afghans working on a program of putting steel cages over the culvert entrances to try to prevent this (most of the IEDs that are this big are 155mm howitzer charges), but I foresee issues when they have a big rainstorm (kind of like the one they had shortly after I got there, see my weblog for pictures at cib4me.blogspot.com) and debris covers the entrance to the culvert and the road gets washed away.

What it boils down to, I guess, is that we need to keep working on this program, but we also need to continue to invest in transportation infrastructure and physical security for Afghanistan if we want to help things change there. It's just going to take more time. Like 20 years or so. We just have to be patient.

my two cents worth, based on my personal experience as a soldier deployed to Khandahar in 2007-2008.

As a fellow Hoosier, I agree this is cool and we should've been doing it since we got there in 2001.

On the other hand, again, as a Hoosier, maybe I'm vastly mistaken on the climate of Afghanistan, but I'm fairly sure it's not corn and soybean weather.

what a logical common sense solution...who gave it to the Government?

Would it be feasible to buy the opium from the farmers and use it to make morphine?
The farmers get a good fair-trade deal, we get a good supply of medical morphine, nobody gets heroin. Everyone's a winner!

me texan: Yeah, that sounds like a bad plan.

I think he asked how it was our "business", not if it were a good plan.

That being said, the opium being grown in Afghanistan is global business and I fully support this operation. Also, a lot of the money made from opium farms in Afghanistan go to funding the Taliban, which we are currently there to fight.

Umm, if I'm not mistaken, the number one cash crop in the US is marijuana. It's also big in Afghanistan, apparently. Gosh, maybe one of these days people will figure out how to crush the illegal drug trade. Just as they eventually learned how to crush the illegal alcohol trade in the US. Those who cannot remember history are doomed to repeat it?

Whatever.

Standing by for Canadian criticism of anything U.S. positive in 3...2...1...

Weaver95
it's not uncommon for opium growers and their families to become addicted to their own crop. I hope they detox the famers before trying to help them grow corn or something.

One of the problems with trying to replace opium with something more acceptable

Hmm, if they were to send the corn farmers accompanied by a deployment of the 331st Mississippi Moonshineists..

"Going in there and eradicating poppies (means) they can't feed their families, and we create an enemy while we're trying to create a friend," says Indiana Adjutant General Martin Umbarger.

This guy for President.

squirrelinator: Standing by for Canadian criticism of anything U.S. positive in 3...2...1...

Got nothin' eh. Good idea, hope it works out for ya.

It's purely an economic problem. Any guy over there with a family and an acre of land can make $20 a month growing acorns, or $100 a month growing poppy plants. Which would you choose?

willydwonka: What a truly awesome story about our government working to solve real issues. Too bad this won't get greenlighted, and no one will ever hear about this program.

I wonder if they greenlit this just to spite you.

Wait, we are interfering in free market capitalism? Someone call Bill Kristol and Kudlow STAT.

Rethorn: Import biofuel from the middle east.

Shiat yeah. Wonder if cane sugar can grow in the desert? Probably not.

Dubai Vol: Just as they eventually learned how to crush the illegal alcohol trade in the US. Those who cannot remember history are doomed to repeat it?

Sarcasm meter is acting up again.

Are you honestly saying that the ban on alcohol worked? Because, you know, it didn't. It's legal now because they couldn't enforce it and they figured they might as well tax the hell out of it.
And the way they went around enforcing the prohibition act wouldn't fly so much nowadays. It violated many civil righ...... Never mind, people wouldn't even notice.

That's funny. the way I remember it poppies had been a main staple for quite some time but then the Taliban had stopped production. So the farmers were growing crops instead. But then we kicked out the Taliban and the poppies make more for a better cash crop so, what was I saying? I guess I'm just muttering.

JewZeppy: That's funny. the way I remember it poppies had been a main staple for quite some time but then the Taliban had stopped production. So the farmers were growing crops instead. But then we kicked out the Taliban and the poppies make more for a better cash crop so, what was I saying? I guess I'm just muttering.

Complicated world is complicated. This was the case, but now the Taliban reportedly urge people to grow poppies for both funding and with a "poison the infidels" mentality. Two birds with one stone.

o_blah: Dubai Vol: Just as they eventually learned how to crush the illegal alcohol trade in the US. Those who cannot remember history are doomed to repeat it?

Sarcasm meter is acting up again.

Are you honestly saying that the ban on alcohol worked? Because, you know, it didn't. .

Sorry, sometimes the intertubes don't work well. Of course prohibition didn't work. The illegal alcohol trade was crushed by legalizing alcohol. But not before the mafia had earned so much money that they had a solid foothold in the US, and certain families had made their fortunes and become political dynasties.

I'm no historian, but I see a repeat. The question is: how many more generations will it take to realize that prohibition doesn't work, and only feeds money to criminals? The US now imprisons more people per capita than any other country. That in itself is big business. Profit everywhere for prohibition. Where is the incentive to see the obvious solution?

squirrelinator: Standing by for Canadian criticism of anything U.S. positive in 3...2...1...

This sucks. YOU SUCK! WAHRGARHBL!!!

Are you happy? Now I look like a jack ass.

Heroin, it's coming back in a big farking way.
(Lance)

Poppa Boner
squirrelinator: Standing by for Canadian criticism of anything U.S. positive in 3...2...1...

This sucks. YOU SUCK! WAHRGARHBL!!!

Are you happy? Now I look like a jack ass.

You chose the handle of Poppa Boner. Damage was done before the comment, pal.

/I know, mine's not much better

Rethorn: JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm:

Step 1. Teach them to grow corn.
Step 2. Oh noes, we can't sell all this corn, whatever can we do with it all?? Import biofuel from the middle east.Teach them how to make whiskey.
Step 3. Teach them how to make whiskey.Import biofuel from the middle east.
Step 4. Convert them to Christianity.
Step 5. Profit.

FTFScience

Afghanistan should get the same deal as Turkey and India and be allowed to grow poppies for the legitimate opium/morphine uses of the medical industry.

The last time I checked, there was a global shortage of legitimate morphine and the Afghan farmers could help alleviate it and make good money at the same time.

Crocodile: Afghanistan should get the same deal as Turkey and India and be allowed to grow poppies for the legitimate opium/morphine uses of the medical industry.

The last time I checked, there was a global shortage of legitimate morphine and the Afghan farmers could help alleviate it and make good money at the same time.

well...that would be the logical solution, yes. But when it comes to 'debbil drugs' our policy decisions are neither logical nor well considered. It's the offical policy of the US government that ALL drugs are ALL illegal ALL the time and that they are ALL exactly the same in their useage and effects. we have different catagories of 'legality' since some variations on opiates do have controllable effects, but that's just a means of controlling distribution.

doglover: Why the hell is that a problem? We need more opium in the world.

Opium would put big drug companies right out of business.

How?
Is one cured? No.
Does one care? Also no.

Um hate to say THIS, ah.. but THIS!

/can't be cured
//doesn't want to care!
///I have serious issues with BigPharm

Actually, most of the "illegal" opiates in this part of the country comes from South America and Mexico anyway.

And truly, what do you think works better? What BigPharm shoves down our throats? You decide.

Still think it is a good idea, although I hope that they really are into "making friends" of these people and don't shove a crop on them that they don't want to grow.

Rethorn: JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: Step 1. Teach them to grow corn.

Step 2. Oh noes, we can't sell all this corn, whatever can we do with it all?? Import biofuel from the middle east.

Step 3. Teach them how to make whiskey.

Step 4. Convert them to Christianity.

Step 5. Profit.



Yikes, way to step on a joke. I bet you're a fun guy to hang out with.

Call me a pessimist but I see this ending badly. I see the US getting farmers addicted to a crop that is bad for the soil and will require huge amounts of fertilization and chemicals. The only winners will be seed companies, chemical companies, and energy companies, and the losers will be the farmers as their soil degrades and local plants and wildlife are killed off.

etv_2k: Call me a pessimist but I see this ending badly. I see the US getting farmers addicted to a crop that is bad for the soil and will require huge amounts of fertilization and chemicals. The only winners will be seed companies, chemical companies, and energy companies, and the losers will be the farmers as their soil degrades and local plants and wildlife are killed off.

actually, in terms of mass production opium isn't all that hard on the soil. it's even reasonably resistant to disease and insect infestations without using harsh chemicals or imported fertilizer. The main problem with growing opium is that it's a tricky plant to grow. It requires a LOT of sunlight to produce a crop, as well as a fairly narrow temperature range. the more sunlight you get (plus optimal temperature), the better and larger the crop. You can even grow opium in England's climate, but you won't get a very large crop and you'll have a fairly short growing season....but it'll grow wild on the southern portion of the island.