Guess that makes him a flip flop. I'm voting for McCain instead.

fappityfappityfap: Guess that makes him a flip flop. I'm voting for McCain instead.


For serious?

To be fair, this does not appear to be the same John McCain.

"Just ask the machinists in Pennsylvania who build Harley-Davidsons," Obama said of McCain's record. "Because John McCain didn't just oppose the requirement that the government buy American-made motorcycles, he called Buy American provisions 'disgraceful.' Just ask the workers across this country who have seen their jobs outsourced. The very companies that shipped their jobs overseas have been rewarded with billions of dollars in tax breaks that John McCain supports and plans to continue.



The Republicans have, for years, even rewarded companies that have moved their factories to other countries.

I think it's a fair question...

That's no attacking his patriotism, that's atacking his trade positions...

Obama was talking about outsourcing jobs to other countries.

Your fake outrage amuses me.

pwhp_67: "Just ask the machinists in Pennsylvania who build Harley-Davidsons," Obama said of McCain's record. "Because John McCain didn't just oppose the requirement that the government buy American-made motorcycles, he called Buy American provisions 'disgraceful.' Just ask the workers across this country who have seen their jobs outsourced. The very companies that shipped their jobs overseas have been rewarded with billions of dollars in tax breaks that John McCain supports and plans to continue.



The Republicans have, for years, even rewarded companies that have moved their factories to other countries.

I think it's a fair question...

I guess globalization isn't so great after all. Who knew!

GaryPDX: I guess globalization isn't so great after all. Who knew!


If a company wants to move their factory to Singapore so they can pay 12 year-olds a bag of rice per day and not pay Americans - that's up to them.

But what sense does it make to NOT treat these imports the way we would if the corporation was not "American"? And what sense does it make to give these companies tax breaks when they don't actually do anything in this country other than sell?

Even you are smarter than that...

pwhp_67: GaryPDX: I guess globalization isn't so great after all. Who knew!


If a company wants to move their factory to Singapore so they can pay 12 year-olds a bag of rice per day and not pay Americans - that's up to them.

But what sense does it make to NOT treat these imports the way we would if the corporation was not "American"? And what sense does it make to give these companies tax breaks when they don't actually do anything in this country other than sell?

Even you are smarter than that...

I know, and it's seriously out of balance. I just get this sense that Democrats are sounding awfully isolationist these days. Maybe it's just me.

You know, for all of how many on the Left tend to think of themselves as citizens of the world, you would think they would be all for globalization and the shifting of jobs to the poorer countries as it concurrently raises their standards of living. Yes, it may seem crazy to us that some people will work 10 hours a day 7 days a week to make what some in the US make in one day. However, those people are flocking to those jobs like crazy because it allows them to live better than they would live if they didn't have the job.

The "Citizen of the World" and the pro-American worker trade policy/anti-outsourcing comments by Obama don't really jibe with one another.

valloned: That's no attacking his patriotism, that's atacking his trade positions...

Just thought this needed a repeat.

KaponoFor3: some people will work 10 hours a day 7 days a week


Why can't we hold companies to the same standards there as we do here? It's bullshiat. If they are an "American" company and they build a factory somewhere else - they should have to run it under our rules or else they face the same tariffs that other countries do. Also, these tariffs need to be more than what they are.

Or you could end up with a middle class that can't afford a new toaster...

GaryPDX: I know, and it's seriously out of balance. I just get this sense that Democrats are sounding awfully isolationist these days. Maybe it's just me.

You've got us there, we're the ones who keep spouting "fark the rest of the world and their opinions."

The thing we absolutely DON'T want is to be more connected with the world, to actually have friends and allies in the form of other countries.

I guess the bottom line is that we Democrats are bent on isolating the US by protecting the short-sighted companies that give jobs to Americans first. We fail to maintain America's supremacy in our own minds through consistently threatening just about every other country in the world to one extent or another, and we make slights on Americans every chance we get by failing to make mainstream-media insults about other countries' socialist health care and snobby education systems.

It's a lucky thing for us, for the USA, for the whole WORLD that you Republicans are there to cover that for us America is lucky we have you to talk smack and disrespect to every other nation in the world so as to not isolate us from them. We count our lucky stars every night that Republicans' idea of foreign diplomacy is mocking health care systems that leave thousands of kids able to get doctors visits and able to go to school without racking up a lifetime of debt to usurious banking institutions - instead of finding ways to take the best of their systems and discard what's broken.

Thank you very much for all of that.

John McCain loves his version of America. He loves the America of the wealthy.
John McCain wants all Americans to be wealthy.

John McCain loves the America that rewards corporations for moving manufacturing to countries with cheap labor so that shareholders can get richer while working class America suffers because they are no longer working.
These working class people who are losing their jobs to cheap foreign labor are John McCain's strongest supporters.

There's no part of McCain's character that isn't for sale or ready to be whored out to try to win this election.

GaryPDX: I know, and it's seriously out of balance. I just get this sense that Democrats are sounding awfully isolationist these days. Maybe it's just me.

What's isolationist about wanting the Chinese to not poison us with their lead toys? About wanting to give companies an incentive to keep jobs here?

Nothing.

McCain, April 2008 on Hardball's College Tour:

"Matthews: Would you sit down with the Democratic nominee...and agree to them that there will be no outside sleazeball attacks...that you will tell your people you will condemn any attack?

McCain: I would love to do that. During the primary, there was a 527 that sprang up. And I asked them to stop. And I asked them to stop.

Matthews: Did they listen?

McCain: They stopped. They stopped." (new window)

Who lied first?

If you're moving your company out of America to take advantage of cheap labor or whatnot, then your company should be treated like any other foreign company looking to import goods into America.

Why is it that the American worker is expected to sacrifice in the name of globalization but not the corporations? Shouldn't the company benefiting from that cheap overseas labor be expected to make sacrifices as well?

GaryPDX: I guess globalization isn't so great after all. Who knew!

there's a difference between taking part in the world market and selling off your own assets to the world market. big difference.

I am not a big fan of either candidate, but IMHO:

You can question McCain's intelligence, experience, age, health, ethics, whatever....but I would never question the man's patriotism. I might be afraid of it sometimes, but I wouldn't question his feelings on the subject.

He didn't say McCain didn't love his country.

He's just pointing out that he doesn't love it as much as he does power.

mr_a: I am not a big fan of either candidate, but IMHO:

You can question McCain's intelligence, experience, age, health, ethics, whatever....but I would never question the man's patriotism. I might be afraid of it sometimes, but I wouldn't question his feelings on the subject.

Cool. Good thing that his patriotism isn't what was questioned.

valloned: That's no attacking his patriotism, that's atacking his trade positions...

QFT

GaryPDX: I know, and it's seriously out of balance. I just get this sense that Democrats are sounding awfully isolationist these days. Maybe it's just me.

I suggest you read this book.

People are beginning to rethink the whole neo-liberal economic school of thought.

This is one area where I don't agree with Obama. Maybe he means what he says, and he doesn't understand the economics. But I think it's more likely he's pandering to the blue-collar workers whose skills are going the way of buggy-whip manufacturers.

The reality is that our blue collar workers need to pick up some new skills. We need to keep investing in human capital. If an illiterate peasant can do your job, but you can read and have other skills that are being wasted right now, then shipping that job to China isn't a bad thing. It would be best if we could provide our displaced workers with free or discounted training for new jobs, though. Then, while the cost of goods is going down, the value of their time goes up too, and they become much better off in the long run.

The big talking point right now is lead-painted toys, etc., but those problems are relatively rare and will be dealt with over time. The much bigger truth is that all our consumer goods are becoming much, much cheaper because labor is done by people with more appropriate skill levels. The result is that we all effectively become wealthier (the hungry peasants, too) and we can all buy more stuff with the same amount of work.

Free trade is a good thing for everyone. NAFTA proved it.

Skleenar: GaryPDX: I suggest you read this book.

People are beginning to rethink the whole neo-liberal economic school of thought.

From your link: On the contrary, Chang shows, today's economic superpowers-from the U.S. to Britain to his native Korea-all attained prosperity by shameless protectionism and government intervention in industry.

Yeah, China, the USSR, and Cuba sure showed us how government interference and microcontrol tend to give the economy such a big boost. Heaven forbid those nasties at the World Bank withhold loaning their money to developing countries who loot their own treasuries by manipulating currency.

He wasn't attacking his patriotism, he was just trying to figure out which country John McCain was a patriot for, duh.

I can't believe your retardicans can't recognize that simple truth.


/Made you look

snowjack: The reality is that our blue collar workers need to pick up some new skills.

Thank god we're also de-funding schools across the country and pushing an "every child left behind" program. That'll keep them from getting those "new skills" nicely.

We'll get the proles onto an equal footing with the asian peasantry by hook or by crook. And when those uppity Blue Collarites are finally starved down to manageable numbers and ready to mind their place, we'll get them hooked back in with factory jobs too.

Who cares, right? I mean fuch them, they're peasants, right?

That isn't attacking his patriotism. It's questioning which country McCain's trade policies benefit most.

It's a policy discussion, not questioning character/patriotism.

pwhp_67: The Republicans have, for years, even rewarded companies that have moved their factories to other countries.

I guess the Republicans should thank Clinton for NAFTA, otherwise, sending jobs to Mexico would be more difficult.

Apparently the only thing Republicans care about manufacturing in America is outrage.

snowjack: Yeah, China, the USSR, and Cuba sure showed us how government interference and microcontrol tend to give the economy such a big boost.

There is a world of difference between what Chang is talking about and the state-controlled economies you seem to be comparing it too.

But really, China?

Are you really trying to use China as an example of an economy hampered by government controls?

Xixox: Apparently the only thing Republicans care about manufacturing in America is outrage.

WIN

Xixox: Apparently the only thing Republicans care about manufacturing in America is outrage.

We can outsource that too.

What do you really expect from a farkin' half breed muslin? Him to keep his word?

/The Qu'ran was those muslin's can lie to us infidels!
// GO SOUTH!

keylock71: If you're moving your company out of America to take advantage of cheap labor or whatnot, then your company should be treated like any other foreign company looking to import goods into America.

Why is it that the American worker is expected to sacrifice in the name of globalization but not the corporations? Shouldn't the company benefiting from that cheap overseas labor be expected to make sacrifices as well?

YES!

GaryPDX: I know, and it's seriously out of balance. I just get this sense that Democrats are sounding awfully isolationist these days. Maybe it's just me.

Maybe I'm becoming something of a protectionist. I've seen a lot of jobs (actually seen 100s of people laid off and then talked to their new replacements from india) outsourced and no new positions created here in the states. I was once laid off from a place because the company decided they only were going to keep the H1B visa holders - who were a lot cheaper than us american citizens. They aren't better than those they replaced. They don't work harder. They aren't anything more than cheaper- and that's all upper management cared about.

I'm not a democrat, but I can fully sympathize with people who watch their jobs get taken away- when they've done nothing wrong. I can sympathize with people who don't want any more jobs shipped off shores. And yes, I would be prepared to pay more for goods made in the US....

WAAAAAAAH!!!

How dare they play the game by the rules we wrote?

WAAAAAAAH!!!

Skleenar: Are you really trying to use China as an example of an economy hampered by government controls?

I'm using China as an example of an economy that until fairly recently was very much hampered by government controls. The fact that relaxing those controls spurred incredible growth further proves my point.

Submitter fails at internettin'.

When did the GOP become a party of ubersensitive crybabies?

Obama can try to stay above all the lies and broken promises McCain has made about clean campaigning.

Americans don't want to vote for a President who doesn't fight back when he is wronged, I guess they think; Will he fight back when our country is wronged?

mr_a: I am not a big fan of either candidate, but IMHO:

You can question McCain's intelligence, experience, age, health, ethics, whatever....but I would never question the man's patriotism. I might be afraid of it sometimes, but I wouldn't question his feelings on the subject.

Some people celebrate their patriotism. These people treat it like a cult.

lexslamman: When did the GOP become a party of ubersensitive crybabies?

First mention of Liberal Media.

farkin' heathen: To be fair, this does not appear to be the same John McCain.

THIS

I have been saying this for awhile re: Iraq...Iraq citizens do not vote (in our elections). They are not part of the USA. They are not the 51st (or as Obama might say, the 58th) state.

FArk them and fark them hard. End that shiat and stop spending billions a week on it.

/we got some programs here that could use some funding
//Go git em' Barry

Change, like the gears on a road racer!

NYZooMan: Change, like the gears on a road racer!

Okay that doesn't even make any sense. Is that supposed to be an attack? Because when you change gears..you can go faster.

Wow, Obama said something not connected with an earlier phrase. I'm gonna have to vote McCain now

GOP: False Outrage is all we farking have.

The spiral continues