None of this makes any sense to me. we've got CEO's who ran their banks into the ground over this mortgage collapse that will walk out of their offices tomorrow morning with something around $20 million dollars in personal compensation. The idiots who bought one (OR MORE!) homes that they knew they couldn't afford are just walking away from the debt without conseqences and absolutely nobody seems at all concerned that we're going to just eat the massive debt load on this mortgage company bailout.

I pay my bills on time, I pay my mortgage on time, I live within my means and I have no credit card debt. But i'm going to see my taxes rise and rise and rise and I don't get any say about it. Didn't we fight a revolution over unfair taxiation or something? I'm pretty sure I read about that somewhere.

debtors prison FTW!!!eleven!!1!!!

BRILLIANT!!!

Weaver95: None of this makes any sense to me. we've got CEO's who ran their banks into the ground over this mortgage collapse that will walk out of their offices tomorrow morning with something around $20 million dollars in personal compensation. The idiots who bought one (OR MORE!) homes that they knew they couldn't afford are just walking away from the debt without conseqences and absolutely nobody seems at all concerned that we're going to just eat the massive debt load on this mortgage company bailout.

I pay my bills on time, I pay my mortgage on time, I live within my means and I have no credit card debt. But i'm going to see my taxes rise and rise and rise and I don't get any say about it. Didn't we fight a revolution over unfair taxiation or something? I'm pretty sure I read about that somewhere.

Why the hell aren't you on my favorites list already? I'm fixing that problem right now.

(Pay my bills, pay my rent, only student loans to pay off once I graduate and I could even afford to pay them now while I'm in school if I wanted)

America, the land of the free from personal responsibility. Stay classy.

Just dig up!

It would be nice to be able to afford a home... period.
Sounds crazy, but I wish I had a (reasonable) mortgage right now.

wait wait wait, this doesn't mean I get a foreclosed home as a dividend for my investment in Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac?

So it's like a person who doesn't like what their spouse looks or acts like on down the road and picks up and leaves, only to set up a new franchise elsewhere.

Your government and corperations are getting away with this kind of BS and lack of accountability, why shouldnt the individual?

On the upside of this, a new house is within my means and now with the shiat going down i'm going to get a 162k house with 60k in free options because they are having trouble selling houses.

Problem: You can't afford your current home spouse. Solution: Find a newer hotter, more affordable home spouse and completely walk away from your previous financial spousal obligations

Sounds like the key to every marriage.

Weaver95: None of this makes any sense to me. we've got CEO's who ran their banks into the ground over this mortgage collapse that will walk out of their offices tomorrow morning with something around $20 million dollars in personal compensation. The idiots who bought one (OR MORE!) homes that they knew they couldn't afford are just walking away from the debt without conseqences and absolutely nobody seems at all concerned that we're going to just eat the massive debt load on this mortgage company bailout.

I pay my bills on time, I pay my mortgage on time, I live within my means and I have no credit card debt. But i'm going to see my taxes rise and rise and rise and I don't get any say about it. Didn't we fight a revolution over unfair taxiation or something? I'm pretty sure I read about that somewhere.


You are just un-americun!

EL_FABREZ: America, the land of the free from personal responsibility. Stay classy.

meh. weak.

Thankfully, even though we are upside down on our house right now, we plan to stay here for the next decade at least. We are not badly hurting in our financial situation, and our house is valued at a only a few grand under the 160k we paid for it. In time it will level out for us I am sure. I am so glad we didn't buy into a McMansion like some of my friends did. A lot of them are screwed now, and are moving back to apartments after selling off most of their stuff to make the note.

As time goes on I become more and more convinced that everyone just deserved a boot to the ass.

I like the part where it says that they have enough money saved up to make a down payment on a second home. If only there were some way to use that money to solve their current problem.

I'm all for that bank foreclosing on that second house as well. Actually, if a house has more than one mortgage, then the banks race through the paperwork to foreclose. Whoever finishes first gets the property. Cause when banks compete, I win. Or at the very least, I am very entertained.

Weaver95: I pay my bills on time, I pay my mortgage on time, I live within my means and I have no credit card debt.

Sucker!

You think playing by the rules and working hard and being honest is how to get ahead??? Hello? the 1950's called and they want their fictional social contract back. This is a new century. If you aren't screwing someone/thing else you better turn around because someone is always getting screwed. Hey, maybe if you pretend to enjoy it you might even get a reach-around?

Weaver95
I pay my bills on time, I pay my mortgage on time, I live within my means and I have no credit card debt. But i'm going to see my taxes rise and rise and rise and I don't get any say about it. Didn't we fight a revolution over unfair taxiation or something? I'm pretty sure I read about that somewhere.

Don't forget about the massive printing of money to bail assholes out, which is a defactor tax on you through inflation.

/watching inflation slowly consume the value of my savings

Weaver95: Didn't we fight a revolution over unfair taxiation or something? I'm pretty sure I read about that somewhere.

Shaddup and drink your tea. And don't you DARE complain that it tastes salty ;)

Send them all to Australia

Weaver95: None of this makes any sense to me. we've got CEO's who ran their banks into the ground over this mortgage collapse that will walk out of their offices tomorrow morning with something around $20 million dollars in personal compensation. The idiots who bought one (OR MORE!) homes that they knew they couldn't afford are just walking away from the debt without conseqences and absolutely nobody seems at all concerned that we're going to just eat the massive debt load on this mortgage company bailout.

I pay my bills on time, I pay my mortgage on time, I live within my means and I have no credit card debt. But i'm going to see my taxes rise and rise and rise and I don't get any say about it. Didn't we fight a revolution over unfair taxiation or something? I'm pretty sure I read about that somewhere.

Newsletter?

This is why I live in a van down by the River.
Can't go wrong with that.

WTH! I brought a house within my means and you are telling me if I need to move due my job I can't sell my house for what worth because of toolboxes like the one in this report? Fark Fark Fark!!
So much for doing the right way and saving up and putting down at least 10% of the worth of the house and such. I got friends who may never be able to get house because of the new rules to combat these toolboxes.

We can count on Weaver95 for the straight question or salient comment. My personal take on this is as follows:

Historically (150 years ago) land was at a premium. Developing land into real estate was a tough thing. Eventually, land became so commonplace (as farms lost their relative value compared to urban areas) as to lose its core value.
Capital soon replaced land as the valuable "root" of the economy. The capital market exploded up soon after WWII-- the Feds printed a shiatload of dollars to pay for the war, and then realized that the dollars were distributed widely enough and that other currencies had been wiped out to the point where the government realized it could simply "create" capital at a reasonable pace without much consequence (hence the prime lending rate).
By the 1990s, capital became so ubiquitous that the problem was no longer the volume of capital available, but the speed at which capital can get sloshed around in the economy. In other words, it's the speed of money, not the amount.
With capital being so liquid, and with debt being packaged off so readily into commodity markets, the relative slow pace of real estate transactions has no chance of keeping up. In short, these scammers realize that capital is like quicksilver, and they'll just keep jumping ahead to stay above the fray.


Personally, I hope the DIAF. As with Weaver95, I pay my bills, have a steady jorb, and live within my means. The schadenfreude in me wants evil to be visited upon these jumpers, but the economist in me wants a graceful landing that won't suck down the entire economy.

Problem: Your can't learn your basic rules of grammar. Solution: Find a website where people judge you based on your written word, submit headlines, forget that you look ridiculous doing it.

The bank signed a contract saying that they would be willing to accept the house if the person defaulted.

If the house was not sufficient collateral, then the bank shouldn't have offered the loan.

Remove all Republicans: What's wrong? These people have gotten themselves into a bad situation and instead of just crying and complaining, they have found a way to get themselves out of their problems and into a new place. So what if some bankers doesn't get to have a bigger fatter bonus this year. His sixteen-year-old is just going to have to live with the regular stretch limo over the Hummer stretch for her sweet sixteen party.

Have you not been paying attention to the failing banks? Or are you holding your hands over your ears and shouting LALALALALALALALALALA.

Remove all Republicans: What's wrong? These people have gotten themselves into a bad situation and instead of just crying and complaining, they have found a way to get themselves out of their problems and into a new place. So what if some bankers doesn't get to have a bigger fatter bonus this year. His sixteen-year-old is just going to have to live with the regular stretch limo over the Hummer stretch for her sweet sixteen party.

What's wrong is that I have to pay for these people's mistakes, and I've done nothing wrong. So while the idiot in the article can buy himself a second house and walk away from his ARM that he could never afford, I'm sitting here unable to buy a house because I have to pay off my student loans, my car loan, and oh yeah, my increased taxes. And no, I'm not that banker who gets the bonus, I'm someone who worked my ass off to get where I am and carry no credit card debt and live within my means.

/ Everyone who fell into the ARM trap should get a swift kick to the nuts
// From every taxpayer

Nogin Lame
Your government and corperations corporations are getting away with this kind of BS and lack of accountability, why shouldnt the individual?

Unfortunately, THIS

Nogin Lame: Your government and corperations are getting away with this kind of BS and lack of accountability, why shouldnt the individual?

Quoth I.

Wait a minute. Companies can use Chapter 11 or various other laws to avoid the consequences of their actions, but when it comes down to individuals doing the same, it's suddenly a problem?

Brockway: That's why the greatest countries in the world are the USSR and East Germany.

Wow. Taking notes from McCain, I see.

This happens in every boom/bust real estate cycle. People buy homes with little or no money down, on an ARM to buy more house than they can afford.Things get tough they buy a second home and bail. Banks sell off the properties at fire sale prices. Investors buy the property, rent them out until the market turns around and sells them for a profit. People buy the home with little or no money down ... and so it goes.

From the farking article: So before the bank forecloses on his first house he is taking advantage of falling real estate prices to buy a new home for $285,000, with a fixed rate mortgage he can afford.

Hey, dumbass, you should have done that in the first place.

FTFA: "relationships between the borrowers and lenders really seem to have devolved into a survival of the fittest mode"

How is it survival of the fittest when the government (thx taxpayers) will bail out even the stupidest of borrowers and lenders? Ah, maybe they are the fittest in this environment of no-risk credit, and those who are financially responsible, like Weaver95, are the weak who will be exploited, bled dry, and eventually weeded out.

Gunny Walker - I like the part where it says that they have enough money saved up to make a down payment on a second home. If only there were some way to use that money to solve their current problem.


Well, if he can't afford the payment, he can't afford the payment. He can run through all his savings to delay the inevitable, still wind up in foreclosure a year from now, and do so with no house...

I read an article one time with some business guru of some sort, wherein he said the biggest and most common mistake small business owners make is hanging in too long when a business isn't working. They'll prop it up and prop it up, and run through everything they have hoping it will catch... When the smart thing is to recognize a losing proposition for what it is and bail out while you still have some cushion.

I'm not saying the guy's right to do this... but the banks themselves have taught us that "right" and "business" have next to nothing in common. I have a hard time feeling sorry for the poor lenders.

If they could get away with squeezing a couple a hundred grand out of any one of us, right or wrong, they'd do it. Hard to blame a guy for playing the game their way.

Brockway: Isn't socialism great? That's why the greatest countries in the world are the USSR and East Germany.

Do you know what socialism even is? Read a book, take a class, get a clue.


You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

farking retard!

P.S. East Germany has been defunct for almost 20 years you farking moron! Jesus farking Christ you're stupid.

g0dzilla: The schadenfreude in me wants evil to be visited upon these jumpers, but the economist in me wants a graceful landing that won't suck down the entire economy.

Don't worry. What the article didn't say is that the bank's loss can be legally reclaimed. If the bank could only sell a foreclosed house for $200k what they had $300k invested in you are still legally on the hook for that $100k loss. It is a very simple thing to get a legal judgment, contested or not, against the bailing homeowner. My wife is an attorney and she does these from time to time. The chickenshiat homeowner doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. As this becomes more common the banks will be bundling and selling these valid debts to businesses and attorneys who have useful tools like liens and garnishments to recapture that $100k. The credit hit is the least of your worries. I hope any of you thinking of bailing will reconsider.

Not to jump on the Weaver95 bandwagon, but I find myself in agreement with Weaver around 90%+. Given that years ago it was around 10%, either:
A) forget it, you know to choose C
B) forget it, you know to choose C
C) the world has gotten so screwed up that any one with a brain and morals can see what's going on.

Weaver95: None of this makes any sense to me. we've got CEO's who ran their banks into the ground over this mortgage collapse that will walk out of their offices tomorrow morning with something around $20 million dollars in personal compensation. The idiots who bought one (OR MORE!) homes that they knew they couldn't afford are just walking away from the debt without conseqences and absolutely nobody seems at all concerned that we're going to just eat the massive debt load on this mortgage company bailout.

I pay my bills on time, I pay my mortgage on time, I live within my means and I have no credit card debt. But i'm going to see my taxes rise and rise and rise and I don't get any say about it. Didn't we fight a revolution over unfair taxiation or something? I'm pretty sure I read about that somewhere.

Aside from the goverment bailing out failed banks, this isn't a bad idea. A simple credit check will show the new lender that he has an outstanding mortgage and is basically teaming up with this guy screw over the other failing bank. The consequences of this is that the failing bank takes a loss, the new bank now controls a house that will be worth more than what is lended out once home prices come back up, and the stupid homeowner will be unable to get more credit for 7 years.

This is how the free market corrects itself. The people who made the bad investmetns lose money instead of taxpayers while the stronger company prevails, and the homeowner will be better off in the short and long term.

The federal goverment's solution to this problem is to take over the failed bank and assume ownership of all the houses people are getting kicked out of, then the feds get to pick and choose who gets to live in which house by selling them at whatever price they please to any of their corporate buddies.

It's stupid that the government will intervene to bail anyone out.

The corporations have insurance to cover their losses against borrowers who forfeit their homes and leave them holding the bags. If the insurance can't cover the losses, than shame on the banks for taking a bad risk in gambling on a shady borrower.

Hey, if I make a bad investment, will the government bail ME out?

blackisright: I can't sell my house for what worth

You can sell you house for what it's worth. You just paid to much to start with.

madgonad: g0dzilla: The schadenfreude in me wants evil to be visited upon these jumpers, but the economist in me wants a graceful landing that won't suck down the entire economy.

Don't worry. What the article didn't say is that the bank's loss can be legally reclaimed. If the bank could only sell a foreclosed house for $200k what they had $300k invested in you are still legally on the hook for that $100k loss. It is a very simple thing to get a legal judgment, contested or not, against the bailing homeowner. My wife is an attorney and she does these from time to time. The chickenshiat homeowner doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. As this becomes more common the banks will be bundling and selling these valid debts to businesses and attorneys who have useful tools like liens and garnishments to recapture that $100k. The credit hit is the least of your worries. I hope any of you thinking of bailing will reconsider.

Whateva. The people who do this my friend are judgement-proof, as in you ain't gonna get a dime from them.

/what good is a lien when you don't own car/property
//put it in someone else's name
///garnish what? can't garnish what you don't get paid

Furthermore, by doing it now, he helps himself rebuild his credit faster. If he waited until his credit was trashed, he'd either pay insane subprime rates on everything, or ride it out until the shiat drops off his record before taking action...

This way, he has a mortgage he can presumably live with, and by the time the foreclosure falls off his credit reports, he'll have a 6-8-10-whatever year history on the new mortgage, which will greatly improve his scores.

xCh: Not to jump on the Weaver95 bandwagon, but I find myself in agreement with Weaver around 90%+. Given that years ago it was around 10%, either:

I like to view Weav as an example that sometimes shiat goes SO crazy, you just wake up and realize that your mental viewpoint is screwed up.

Or he could just be an INCREDIBLE troll ;)

Brockway: Isn't socialism great? That's why the greatest countries in the world are the USSR and East Germany.

Two countries that don't exist?

Socialist countries that DO exist however, are doing fine thank you.

Not so 'asinine'

I've seen it. That's capitalism.

Big Corporations do the same thing on a much bigger scale and you and I pay for for with out tax dollars.

Wow, okay that's a smart loophole. Kinda scarry though all it's going to do is dirve the market further down....

smart and sleazy.....

/facepalm required

These ought to be on the market soon for cheap, and my credit didn't get ARMed.