Guess I better sign up for Scientology.

moothemagiccow: Guess I better sign up for Scientology.

NOOO!!!!

/lost another one...

This is actually a common Muslim belief. Judaism was the first, then Christianity, and Islam is the last of the "true religions".

I can't believe it is the 21st f*cking century.

What a disgusting piss hole of a country. Some friends of mine wanted to take a vacation to Egypt. Why on Earth would anybody want to go some place with no freedom of religion and where they track your religion on an ID card? The govt there is no better than the nazis.

In Higazi's case, the judge based his decision on Sharia, Islamic law, to prove that one cannot convert to an "older religion".

What the hell, are religions now written by Microsoft? You can upgrade, but not downgrade?

The good news for him, I suppose, is that he can now upgrade to FSM, since that appears to follow sharia logic.

Ima4nic8or: What a disgusting piss hole of a country. Some friends of mine wanted to take a vacation to Egypt. Why on Earth would anybody want to go some place with no freedom of religion and where they track your religion on an ID card? The govt there is no better than the nazis.

Pyramids are nice though...

Is this the thread where I loudly and vehemently claim superiority in my lack of religion? I'm always late to those.

:(

/hotlinked in good faith

hmm, OK, cropped and re-hosted...

This is actually very liberal and progressive for a Muslim country.. The punishment for apostasy is death in Islam, there is no conversion to any other faith. It is very enlightened of their government to not chop his head off.

//hotrinked with flied lice

Christianity:Islam::Windows XP:Vista

Sometimes people want to go back to an earlier version.

Jeremy Bates: Screw that, I'm going to worship Shamash and venerate Gilgamesh.

/Psst, the Epic of Gilgamesh is older than the Bible. It may even be older than the Hebrew people themselves.

No one is claiming Judaism is the first religion. It's the first monotheistic religion.

Gish21: This is actually very liberal and progressive for a Muslim country.. The punishment for apostasy is death in Islam, there is no conversion to any other faith. It is very enlightened of their government to not chop his head off.

Yes. This. Bears repeating.

Even in the most liberal of Muslim-majority countries (such as Malaysia) converting from Islam is either impossible, or such a legal clusterfark that it's effectively impossible. In most other Muslim countries it's punishable by death.

So yeah, this is progressive.

/Still facepalm worthy though

Could someone please explain to me why you care about someone else's choice of religion?

Don't explain to me what you think someone else might think about why they care about someone else's choice of religion.

Instead, I'll repeat the first sentence in a slightly different wording: if you really care about another person's religious choice could you please explain why?

Don't make me repeat the second sentence.

Approves.

Came for Raptor Jesus
Disappointed
Fark slahies

Instead, I'll repeat the first sentence in a slightly different wording: if you really care about another person's religious choice could you please explain why?

Because that other person's newfound religion might tell him to kill me for mine?

Slashies
Fial

ben zona: No one is claiming Judaism is the first religion. It's the first monotheistic religion.

If you want to go ahead and ignore Akhenaten's religious reforms and Zoroastrianism, sure...

malibupetey: Could someone please explain to me why you care about someone else's choice of religion?

Don't explain to me what you think someone else might think about why they care about someone else's choice of religion.

Instead, I'll repeat the first sentence in a slightly different wording: if you really care about another person's religious choice could you please explain why?

Don't make me repeat the second sentence.
___
Personally, I only care when people try to institute legal and/or social policies that apply to me. For example, when people try to get their religious origin story taught in science classes, draw my tax money to pay for religious services, etc.

Insofar as it doesn't affect me, I don't care what people believe.

The case in TFA is none of my business. Some of the stuff that has happened here in the US recently most definitely is my business because it affects me.

HTH

malibupetey: Could someone please explain to me why you care about someone else's choice of religion?

Well, not speaking for myself on this, because I don't really care. Reasons I would consider valid (if possibly misguided):

1. You care about the other person, believe in hell, and do not want them to go there.

2. Your religion tells you that if you do not (at least attempt to) convert other people to your religion, you will be punished.

From a standpoint of basic reasoning, if you accept that religion in the first place (axiomatically), then these both follow as reasonable.

Myself, I'm not a fan of #2, and I prefer that the state protect me from people attempting to do #2 rather than help them out. I'm not really a fan of #1, but if motives count for anything it's hard to complain too much.

GhostFish: ben zona: No one is claiming Judaism is the first religion. It's the first monotheistic religion.

If you want to go ahead and ignore Akhenaten's religious reforms and Zoroastrianism, sure...


"I named my cat Zoroaster."
"Why?"
"He's Persian."

GhostFish: If you want to go ahead and ignore Akhenaten's religious reforms and Zoroastrianism, sure...

People usually do. Eris knows, the Egyptians tried to ignore Akhenaten's reforms ...

Zoroastrianism is an interesting case. The Muslims themselves seem to have some disagreement on whether they consider it one or not. From a purely historical standpoint, though, most definitely.

ben zona: No one is claiming Judaism is the first religion. It's the first monotheistic religion.

Akhenaten and Zoroaster would like a word with you.

Ima4nic8or: What a disgusting piss hole of a country. Some friends of mine wanted to take a vacation to Egypt. Why on Earth would anybody want to go some place with no freedom of religion and where they track your religion on an ID card? The govt there is no better than the nazis.

The government is supposed to be very protective and tolerant of Western tourists, it has some incredible archaelogical sites, and there are supposed to be good beaches. It's one of two places on my list for this year's vacation.

Ima4nic8or: What a disgusting piss hole of a country. Some friends of mine wanted to take a vacation to Egypt. Why on Earth would anybody want to go some place with no freedom of religion and where they track your religion on an ID card? The govt there is no better than the nazis.

Robert-24: Pyramids are nice though...

Some of the best snorkeling in the world. Check out Dahab, Egypt.

malibupetey: Instead, I'll repeat the first sentence in a slightly different wording: if you really care about another person's religious choice could you please explain why?

If they are actively attacking, repressing or opressing me or my countrymen on my home turf, based solely on the principles of that belief-cult or religion, I care. Otherwise, no.

If there is a cross cultural element involved, political motivations or some kind of extremist pollution attached to the acts of a few members of that religion-- I'm not going to scapegoat the entire religion, because I am sensible. Ex: Criminal or asshat pagans, Christians bombing abortion clinics, violent jihadis, really cheap neurotic Jews, etc.

I win, because I pray to Joe Pesci.

Gish21: This is actually very liberal and progressive for a Muslim country.. The punishment for apostasy is death in Islam, there is no conversion to any other faith. It is very enlightened of their government to not chop his head off.

FTA: "My younger brother knew about it but since then he's been waiting for outside my building ... with a gun," he said. "He wants to kill me."

It really irks me when people say that Islam is a peaceful religion. I believe in religious freedom and tolerance, but I don't think that means I have to pretend that Islam is peaceful or tolerant.

that attitude towards religion on fark is ridiculously idiotic. the heart of religion is that there is a positive meaning to life and that you need to listen to your conscience. the rituals and dogmas that come with it are merely a product of the times and the circumstances, an attempt to impress people into believing in the fundamentals and then creating a social structure around them. Obviously a lot of things in religion become outdated, as they do in all spheres, and i admit religion clings to those things more fiercely because its wrongly interpreted that dogmas can't change with time, but the fundamental thing religion represents and teaches IS true and remains an innovation in human life.

FTFA: "I was forced to leave my family home where I have lived with my mother and daughter," he told AFP.

Wow. This guy was a winner to begin with.

I guess our basement-dwellers convert to pseudo-pagan religions to piss off their families, and Egypt's basement-dwellers do the same with Christianity?

monotheistic religions were sent by God created by people in chronological order

Fixed for judge.

troll fu:
It really irks me when people say that Islam is a peaceful religion. I believe in religious freedom and tolerance, but I don't think that means I have to pretend that Islam is peaceful or tolerant.

islam isn't INHERANTLY more intolerant than christianity or judiasm or anything else. Its just muslim/middle-eastern society went through a different social evolution (you could also argue they're at an earlier stage of a similar evolution) than europe did.

tolerance is, in its way, written into the koran. it says that 'people of the book' shouldn't be killed and should be allowed to practice as long as they agree to pay the muslims a special tax. for completely uncouth desert nomads, that isn't so bad. Christianity didn't get to that stage for a long time (though we're way past it now).

troll fu:
It really irks me when people say that Islam is a peaceful religion. I believe in religious freedom and tolerance, but I don't think that means I have to pretend that Islam is peaceful or tolerant.

And two Farks later, we see:
Apocalyptic Christian Scumbags Want War (new window)

It ain't the object of the irrational religion that distinguishes these evil bastards. The vast majority of Muslims are peaceful. But the nature of religion (superstitious thinking, irrationality) lends itself to militant evil. Islam = Christianity = Judaism.

I take her to the seaside
Where she likes to spin and twirl
She says sure and cool and yeah
She's my monosyllabic monotheistic girl

© catchy

GhostFish: ben zona: No one is claiming Judaism is the first religion. It's the first monotheistic religion.

If you want to go ahead and ignore Akhenaten's religious reforms and Zoroastrianism, sure...

People do tend to ignore Zoroastrianism, though it is indeed alive and kicking. Just mainly outside of Iran, these days.

/Jew with a Persian boyfriend, so I'm really getting a kick...

On their way to the Judge's house.

tolerance is, in its way, written into the koran.

Give me a farking break. FAIL.

Tyrone Slothrop: monotheistic religions were sent by God created by people in chronological order

Fixed for judge.

yes, sent by God, created by people. have a LITTLE bit of farking imagination man. when you say an artist is "inspired," isn't that a transitive verb. what inspires him/her? when you get a great idea "out of nowhere." "sent by God" is exactly the same, just within a different mental framework. like Muses in ancient greece. like socrates' daemon.

literal-minded "gotcha!" nerdism is without a doubt not as good as well-understood religion.

goodbomb: the heart of religion is that there is a positive meaning to life and that you need to listen to your conscience. the rituals and dogmas that come with it are merely a product of the times and the circumstances, an attempt to impress people into believing in the fundamentals and then creating a social structure around them.

The "meaning of life" is described in plenty of non-religious philosophies, and I would dispute that religion universally creates a positive meaning of life; e.g., ancient Egyptian religion primarily created meaning for the pharaoh's life. Many/most religions explicitly do not want you determining your actions based on your conscience (e.g., 10 commandments, dietary laws, travel rules, etc.). The rituals and dogmas are inherent to religions and are what set them apart from Deism.

goodbomb: the fundamental thing religion represents and teaches IS true and remains an innovation in human life.

The fundamental thing that religion teaches is that there is a higher power who has set guidelines for how you should deal with things. That is, unless you want to define religion so broadly that it includes Deism and the pseudo-deist personal spiritual beliefs some people invent for themselves.

There's hardly agreement that belief in a higher power is true, nor would I say religion continues to be an innovation in human life.

"Monotheistic religions were sent by God in chronological order... As a result, it is unusual to go from the latest religion to the one that preceded it," the judge said at the time."

So... Islam is Religion v4.12 Build 9919 Final?

/always thought man created religion

Latter Day Saints

food_eater: tolerance is, in its way, written into the koran.

Give me a farking break. FAIL.

way to avoid responding to what i actually wrote. for desert nomads in 632, the amount of tolerance written into the koran is impressive. it says don't kill non-muslims if they're christian or jew, let them worship. yes, for a price.

is there any tolerance written into the bible? our cultured civilized ancestors from judea and the hellenic/roman world?

Ima4nic8or
What a disgusting piss hole of a country. Some friends of mine wanted to take a vacation to Egypt. Why on Earth would anybody want to go some place with no freedom of religion and where they track your religion on an ID card? The govt there is no better than the nazis.

Sinai. All the weed you can smoke and then some.

goodbomb

it says don't kill non-muslims if they're christian or jew, let them worship. yes, for a price.

Terribly tolerant. "Kill the majority of the world, but spare the Christians and Jews!"

goodbomb

is there any tolerance written into the bible? our cultured civilized ancestors from judea and the hellenic/roman world?

Every single religious or political movement on earth preaches tolerance. What they DO with that message, that's where the problems start.

bigforearms:
The "meaning of life" is described in plenty of non-religious philosophies, and I would dispute that religion universally creates a positive meaning of life; e.g., ancient Egyptian religion primarily created meaning for the pharaoh's life. Many/most religions explicitly do not want you determining your actions based on your conscience (e.g., 10 commandments, dietary laws, travel rules, etc.). The rituals and dogmas are inherent to religions and are what set them apart from Deism.

The fundamental thing that religion teaches is that there is a higher power who has set guidelines for how you should deal with things. That is, unless you want to define religion so broadly that it includes Deism and the pseudo-deist personal spiritual beliefs some people invent for themselves.

There's hardly agreement that belief in a higher power is true, nor would I say religion continues to be an innovation in human life.

thank you for not being an idiot.

I mean, Deism is definitely religion. without a doubt. Deism historically is just Christianity after the influence rational-eclecticism. its certainly not atheism. you seem to define "religion" in terms of chuches and dogmas. I don't. it would be helpful to know the etymology of the word.

the rituals and dogmas aren't the essential thing in my opinion. they're the social element. yes they're usually linked, but my contention is that the social element can and should change with time and circumstance (up to and including our current agnostic/atheist social world) whereas the essential thing, the realization (not faith, in my opinion) that there's a God or gods is constant.

as far as conscience, you're right. what i was thinking was that higher-religion moral teaching basically breaks down to 'follow the golden rule' and the golden rule essentially breaks down to 'that feeling you have of others being, at base, just like you... its valid. don't fight it, let it guide your morality.'