I can't believe the Times would make this up.

What a farkin dumbatze

Even from my Mom's basement I could see that Russia would invade when Georgia sent the troops into South Ossetia. Durrrr. Anyone familiar with their history should know this.

I knew it, I'm surrounded by Dumbatzes!

The name is Dumass (new window)

Vinny Dumbatze? I thought he was Rodney Dangerfield's doctor...

I thought that was a joke at first. Well, I still think it's a joke.

It does illustrate a simple point though. The Georgians are upset and surprised that the Russians would do to them, what they were already doing themselves.

No one in this conflict has moral highground. No one.

The Russians allowing some ethnic cleansing is just par for the course.

hubiestubert: It does illustrate a simple point though. The Georgians are upset and surprised that the Russians would do to them, what they were already doing themselves.

You're right, if you ignore the fact that Georgian Troops were operating within the sovereign borders of Georgia, and Russian Troops and airplanes violated that sovereignty and invaded Georgia.

CowboyUpCowgirlDown

You're right, if you ignore the fact that Georgian Troops were operating within the sovereign borders of Georgia, and Russian Troops and airplanes violated that sovereignty and invaded Georgia.

Georgian military killing Russian citizens in a disputed area that's had Russian peacekeepers for over a decade = Russian response.

Georgian military killing Russian citizens in a disputed area that's had Russian peacekeepers for over a decade = Russian response.

If by Russian citizens you mean paid off Ossetians being given passports by Russia then yes they were Russian.

Land grab by the psycho Russians. The Russian mentality is insane and ultra nationalistic.

Anyone that denies this is either a Putin dong gargler or ignorant.

tarvuz

If by Russian citizens you mean paid off Ossetians being given passports by Russia then yes they were Russian.

The vast majority of the Ossetian people have been Russian citizens for many, many years. Those in southern Ossetia largely depend on subsidies from family in Russia.

Land grab by the psycho Russians.

Ethnic oppression by the savage Georgians.

The Russian mentality is insane and ultra nationalistic.

One might argue that provoking Russia by invading an area that's supposed to be overseen by Russian peacekeepers, then attacking said peacekeepers along with civilians, is a bit insane. Especially if you're a small country like Georgia whose supporters (the States and Israel) have no intention of actually fighting to help you.

Oh now that's just immatu-- hehehehehe.

The Georgians went looking for trouble, invaded South Ossetia during the Olympics opening ceremony and slaughtered many civilians (perhaps hundreds). I'm very glad Russia stomped them flat. It's also a message to the US to stay the fark out of Russia's backyard. This policy of trying to encircle and humiliate Russia is farking insanity and I hope Obama recognises this and stops it.

CowboyUpCowgirlDown: hubiestubert: It does illustrate a simple point though. The Georgians are upset and surprised that the Russians would do to them, what they were already doing themselves.

You're right, if you ignore the fact that Georgian Troops were operating within the sovereign borders of Georgia, and Russian Troops and airplanes violated that sovereignty and invaded Georgia.

Or you ignore the peacekeeping duties that the Russians had since 1992--you know, the last time the Georgians tried to roll in--the Georgians rolled in this time a bit more prepared and more efficient this time around, and the Ossetians were better prepared as well.

I reiterate: NO ONE has clean hands in this. Not the Ossetians, not the Georgians, not the Russians.

retina54: I knew it, I'm surrounded by Dumbatzes!

Yanno what I like about Fark threads? Nobody can interrupt anybody the way talking heads on news networks can. I love some of these Georgia discussions, because even though there's a lot of bias one way or the other, you can at least hear all sides to the complete fullest without worrying about some asshat host cutting your mic.

/is more aware of the Russian situation thanks to Fark than he ever would've been if he just watched cable news

Joshie: Yanno what I like about Fark threads? Nobody can interrupt anybody the way talking heads on news networks can. I love some of these Georgia discussions, because even though there's a lot of bias one way or the other, you can at least hear all sides to the complete fullest without worrying about some asshat host cutting your mic.

/is more aware of the Russian situation thanks to Fark than he ever would've been if he just watched cable news

Sad but true.

Of course the flip side to that is the "open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." A lot of sides lie really heavily, "Jews did wtc" style.

hubiestubert: Or you ignore the peacekeeping duties that the Russians had since 1992--you know, the last time the Georgians tried to roll in--the Georgians rolled in this time a bit more prepared and more efficient this time around, and the Ossetians were better prepared as well.

I reiterate: NO ONE has clean hands in this. Not the Ossetians, not the Georgians, not the Russians.

This. The Georgian attack was ruthless and criminal, the Russian response was much more brutal than it had to be, and the Ossetians should share some blame for not reigning in their anti-Georgian militants. As an aside, can we please retire the "sovereign Georgian territory" argument? Taiwan is "sovereign PRC territory", technically. The West Bank and Gaza are "sovereign Israeli territory". The actual situation on the ground - in Ossetia's case, 15+ years of de facto democratic independence - trumps the technical legal status of a region every single time.

mysterytopia.com

Creation Date: 04-Jun-2008
Expiration Date: 04-Jun-2009

gee... viral marketing maybe?

these people need to try harder....

Suede head: The Georgians went looking for trouble, invaded South Ossetia during the Olympics opening ceremony and slaughtered many civilians (perhaps hundreds).

Any sources about hundreds and slaughtering?

I'm very glad Russia stomped them flat.

Georgian civilians?

Suede head: It's also a message to the US to stay the fark out of Russia's backyard. This policy of trying to encircle and humiliate Russia is farking insanity and I hope Obama recognises this and stops it.

No, it's message to former colonies to bend over

The coolest thing about Red Forman is that he shot Robocop's arm off. "Take that, Dumbass!!!"

MikeFallopian: The actual situation on the ground - in Ossetia's case, 15+ years of de facto democratic independence - trumps the technical legal status of a region every single time.

De facto - yes
democratic - unlikely

LewDux

De facto - yes
democratic - unlikely

Votes are rather democratic.

Facetious_Speciest: Votes are rather democratic.

You know who else held elections?

answer is Florida

Suede Head, you should learn your Cult of Putin talking points.

Keep firing, Dumbatzes!

TFA, right on, why response was so "heavy-handed" and why Russians are still there:
"All the soldiers said they were ready to fight again".

tarvuz

Suede Head, you should learn your Cult of Putin talking points.

You might want to RTFA. The Georgian major from the headline admits this was an attempt by the Georgians to crush Ossetian attempts at self-determination, and says he thought his government had made a "deal" with the Russians to allow this.

Facetious_Speciest: You might want to RTFA. The Georgian major from the headline admits this was an attempt by the Georgians to crush Ossetian attempts at self-determination, and says he thought his government had made a "deal" with the Russians to allow this.

Could you quote that part?

LewDux

Could you quote that part?

"Major Dumbatze, 33, denied any knowledge of atrocities committed in Georgia's initial assault on Tskhinvali. His men were hunting down remaining militiamen and had left their armour in the open only because they thought they had won, bringing 17 years of secession to an end. 'It was a dream for all Georgian soldiers,' he said."

kremvax: TFA, right on, why response was so "heavy-handed" and why Russians are still there:
"All the soldiers said they were ready to fight again".

So they dropped cluster bomb, burned Georgian villages and National Park, bombed pipelines and looted Georgian cities because some soldiers said that?

LewDux

So they dropped cluster bomb, burned Georgian villages and National Park, bombed pipelines and looted Georgian cities because some soldiers said that?

No, they did that because Russians are crazy, oppressive bastards.

That doesn't change the fact that Georgians provided the pretext needed by moving their military into Ossetian territory.

But still I think he isn't as high in rank as Major Atzehole.

/could quote the entire Asshole scene blindfolded
//or for that matter, all of Spaceballs

LewDux: MikeFallopian: The actual situation on the ground - in Ossetia's case, 15+ years of de facto democratic independence - trumps the technical legal status of a region every single time.

De facto - yes
democratic - unlikely

Ossetia has elections, referendums, political parties... the basic institutions are there, though it's certainly not a perfectly functioning democracy. Of course, those are few and far between in that region. Saakashvili shuts down media sources that are critical of him and uses special forces to break up peaceful demonstrations. And we all know Putin's record when it comes to the press and democratic institutions.

I wonder how do the Russians plan to intervene should Moldova want Transnistria back. ;---D

MikeFallopian: LewDux: MikeFallopian: The actual situation on the ground - in Ossetia's case, 15+ years of de facto democratic independence - trumps the technical legal status of a region every single time.

De facto - yes
democratic - unlikely

Ossetia has elections, referendums, political parties... the basic institutions are there, though it's certainly not a perfectly functioning democracy. Of course, those are few and far between in that region.

really?

here's my rough translation from an article I read a few weeks back, who are those people in power:
More on the background of those separatists. During the era of their first president Ludvig Tschibirov, SO turned into a major transit area for illegal goods, contraband and all that. He got greedy and two businessmen Ibrahim and Džambulat Tedeyev took a strong objection to that, so with the support of troops loyal to them they started claiming the president's profits. At one moment they decided this country needs a new president and they picked Eduard Kokoyev (later known as Kokoity). By education a physical education teacher. He won the elections in 2001, but president Tschibirov didnt like that and a KGB unit led by his son surrounded the parliamental building and demanded for cancelling the election results. This was followed by gathering of a 1000 armed Kokoity supporters. After taking the power he also forced his old employers, the Tedeyev brothers to leave. The head of south-ossetian KGB Anatoli Barabanov is the former head of Mordovian FSB. the minister of the interior Mikhail Mindzayev worked in the North-Ossetian FSB, specifically handling the special unit in Beslan during the crisis. the head of the border guard Aleksandr Tschebodarov was a colonel in FSB and I dont remember the rest, russian-born businessmen, army folks and all that.

you decide.

and on top of that: "Govt dismissed in South Ossetia " (new window)

Facetious_Speciest: "Major Dumbatze, 33, denied any knowledge of atrocities committed in Georgia's initial assault on Tskhinvali. His men were hunting down remaining militiamen and had left their armour in the open only because they thought they had won, bringing 17 years of secession to an end. 'It was a dream for all Georgian soldiers,' he said."

I guess it makes sense since you think it's genuine independence movement

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/38000/Medvedev-Puppet--38113.jpg
just replace Medvedev with Kokoity

in a poor country such as South Ossetia, young men have only one way out of absolute poverty - going along with the groups running the place.

LewDux

I guess it makes sense since you think it's genuine independence movement

I think 95%+ of a population voting for independence counts as a movement.

LewDux: kremvax: TFA, right on, why response was so "heavy-handed" and why Russians are still there:
"All the soldiers said they were ready to fight again".

So they dropped cluster bomb

Never confirmed.


, burned Georgian villages

Not the Russian army, which in fact protects fleeing Georgians from outraged Ossetians. And Georgians get the taste of the "medicine" they brought there.


and National Park,

Well, that's unfortunate, perhaps Georgians should've thought about that before they attacked.


bombed pipelines

But failed to actually destroy it. Yup.

and looted Georgian cities
Never confirmed for the army (not to mention what possibly could be there to loot?). As far as irregulars, see above. You do know some of the looters were actually shot on the spot? For looting, by the army.

because some soldiers said that?

Umm. They had to destroy as much as they could of their ammunitions and have to stay there because Georgian nazis are ready to attack again. Also sorta settles the "who started it" question.

kremvax: Umm. They had to destroy as much as they could of their ammunitions and have to stay there because Georgian nazis are ready to attack again. Also sorta settles the "who started it" question.

OH NO THE NAZIS?!?!?!?

in that case you're a fag.

jonnypeh: kremvax: Umm. They had to destroy as much as they could of their ammunitions and have to stay there because Georgian nazis are ready to attack again. Also sorta settles the "who started it" question.

OH NO THE NAZIS?!?!?!?

Well. "Georgia is for Georgians" and so on.


in that case you're a fag.

Oh no, Mr. Dumbatze, is it you?

There is no right or wrong in politics. It is all wrong.

kremvax: LewDux: kremvax: TFA, right on, why response was so "heavy-handed" and why Russians are still there:
"All the soldiers said they were ready to fight again".

So they dropped cluster bomb

Never confirmed.

You mean Kremlin never admitted of doing it? I'm sure they had their reasons. Maybe they dropped them by mistake? Maybe Bulgarians replaced ordinary bombs for use on civilians with CB while everybody was on vacation?

, burned Georgian villages

Not the Russian army, which in fact protects fleeing Georgians from outraged Ossetians. And Georgians get the taste of the "medicine" they brought there.

They are doing very good job, aren't they?

and National Park,

Well, that's unfortunate, perhaps Georgians should've thought about that before they attacked.

No no no, correct answer is "it's Georgian nazi propaganda"

bombed pipelines

But failed to actually destroy it. Yup.

Very nice of them

and looted Georgian cities
Never confirmed for the army (not to mention what possibly could be there to loot?). As far as irregulars, see above. You do know some of the looters were actually shot on the spot? For looting, by the army.

"what possibly could be there to loot"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LxnRAA6Fa4

because some soldiers said that?

Umm. They had to destroy as much as they could of their ammunitions and have to stay there because Georgian nazis are ready to attack again. Also sorta settles the "who started it" question.

Oooh, "nazis" Oh no, I'm defeated!