One of my favorite thing about Kurt Cobain has always been that this frail little guy singlehandlely killed Hair Metal, mostly all by himself

Nirvana brought on this attitude that once they got on the scene, suddenly Motley Crue , poison G N R all seemed like a fake, poseur world of people pretending to party and fark all the time, meanwhile that represented zero reality to relate to in the average music listener, who suddenly went, "You know what, heavy metal is bullshiat"


and metal bands *HATED* Cobain for it..... Hero tag, please

Was that a polite way to say Axl is a douche? I didn't think it was taboo to say that out loud.

If he were here today he'd say the same about James and Lars

No, Kurt was usually ready to meet him. It's just that Axel got up around 7:00 but wouldn't get out of bed until around 9:00

/That hurt

Cobain was founded dead at his Seattle home in 1994 after shooting himself.

Isn't this a UK website? Didn't you guys create the language?

What the fark is happening to that country.....

The only thing 'genius' about Kurt was his refusal to meet Rose.

I recall a story where Cobain refused Eddie Van Halen from joining Nivana for an encore.
Cobain said something like Van Halen represents the kind of musical dinosaurs he was trying not to be like.

vonzales: I recall a story where Cobain refused Eddie Van Halen from joining Nivana for an encore.
Cobain said something like Van Halen represents the kind of musical dinosaurs he was trying not to be like.

Funny, I remember a story in the 94 Rolling Stone about his life talking about where he ran to Eddie's dressing room to meet him and was so enthusiastic about it he was 'kissing him'.

KING BUZZO ---> Kurt Coabain

as


THE BEATLES ---> The Monkees

vonzales: I recall a story where Cobain refused Eddie Van Halen from joining Nivana for an encore.
Cobain said something like Van Halen represents the kind of musical dinosaurs he was trying not to be like.

Van Halen was extremely drunk and said, "I can use the Mexican's guitar", referring to second guitarist Pat Smear.

Smear had an African-American/Native American mother and a German/Jewish immigrant father.

Oops.

theurge14 -
right on. I can't remember where I heard that story anyway. Probably from Kurt Loder.

craigdamage: KING BUZZO ---> Kurt Coabain

as


THE BEATLES ---> The Monkees

i agree, except i actually like the monkees too(or i guess i like whoever wrote their songs). did buzzo get a credit for that blatant melvins ripoff on in utero?

HappyHarryHardOn: One of my favorite thing about Kurt Cobain has always been that this frail little guy singlehandlely killed Hair Metal, mostly all by himself

Nirvana brought on this attitude that once they got on the scene, suddenly Motley Crue , poison G N R all seemed like a fake, poseur world of people pretending to party and fark all the time, meanwhile that represented zero reality to relate to in the average music listener, who suddenly went, "You know what, heavy metal is bullshiat"


and metal bands *HATED* Cobain for it..... Hero tag, please

But it isn't true. "Hair metal" was already dead when Nevermind blew up. Guns n Roses did the damage.

Old news is old. GNR wanted them to open for them on the UYI tours. Kurt said no and would go on about hating metal bands.

Disclaimer: I love both bands. The problem with Nirvana/Kurt knocking all the metal bands is... he became them. "Alternative"/grunge simply replaced metal as the next industry-backed marketing phenom. Some metal bands were talented, some were crap. Well, same with "grunge". Did we need major releases from Tad, Screaming Trees, etc. being hyped as the next big thing? (I actually like them but lets face it, any band that sounded remotely like Nirvana got lumped in with the movement). Calling the metal bands fake was pretty silly given how used Cobain wound up being by the label. Does anyone else remember grunge fashion shows? All the magazine covers? Pointless interviews about "Seattle style"?

Yes Kurt rebelled against it and eventually shot himself and for what? Nirvana, much like the metal bands before them, wound up used, promoted, and spit out by the industry.

So you went from metal bands partying and looking like poseurs to grunge bands partying and looking like poseurs, til they took the flannel off and moved on.

Like any genre - some good, some bad. Pointless argument.

RevMercutio: But it isn't true. "Hair metal" was already dead when Nevermind blew up. Guns n Roses did the damage.

Amen for beating me to the punch on that. I'm tired of saying it. Anyone who thinks Nirvana is responsible for the death of hair metal is either suffering from collective amnesia or simply wasn't alive during the late 80s and early 90s.

I like the Monkees too.

I just don't regard them as some major original force that changed the face of music. Simply,they were a decent Beatles facsimile.

When I purchased Nevermind in 1991 and listened to "In Bloom" for the first time it seemed blatantly obvious that song's lyrics were directed squarely at Axl Rose.

This was long before there were any signs of a public feud between the two of them.

"Oh man, I went to Seattle, I started a band, it was so great."
"Oh yeah? What kind of music do you play?"
"Oh man, it's great, it's just like heavy metal only we wear regular clothes on stage."
"Yeah, like flannels and jeans and stuff."
"Yeah, it's crescent fresh man."

(paraphrased from Sifl & Olly)

/I do like Nirvana and a lot of that era of rock, alternative, grunge whatevs

craigdamage: I just don't regard them as some major original force that changed the face of music. Simply,they were a decent Beatles facsimile.

With songs written by boyce and hart, neil diamond, and other greats.

Nothing wrong with the Monkees -- they were proof that songwriting is everything in popular music.

SplitGuy: Van Halen was extremely drunk and said, "I can use the Mexican's guitar", referring to second guitarist Pat Smear.

Although it made me laugh, I did not believe this when I read your post. So I ran right to teh googles and found a Pat Smear interview confirming it is indeed true. It is now my alltime favorite rock story. Thank you.

yyyyyeahh


/hhhheyy

HappyHarryHardOn: One of my favorite thing about Kurt Cobain has always been that this frail little guy singlehandlely killed Hair Metal, mostly all by himself

Guns n Roses killed hair metal, not those whiny, 2 chord douchebags.

Mugato: Guns n Roses killed hair metal, not those whiny, 2 chord douchebags.

guns n roses were just as hair metal as britny fox and cinderella, dont kid yourself.

mahavishnunj: Mugato: Guns n Roses killed hair metal, not those whiny, 2 chord douchebags.

guns n roses were just as hair metal as britny fox and cinderella, dont kid yourself.

thanks,was going to say this. how can Guns/roses kill something they are... I mean, have you seen the bands they all were in before forming Guns? talk about hairspray

mahavishnunj: Mugato: Guns n Roses killed hair metal, not those whiny, 2 chord douchebags.

guns n roses were just as hair metal as britny fox and cinderella, dont kid yourself.

On the cheese-factor scale, Appetite for Destruction is only a small notch below hair metal. Rocket Queen, anybody?

Courtney Cox-Zucker: RevMercutio: But it isn't true. "Hair metal" was already dead when Nevermind blew up. Guns n Roses did the damage.

Amen for beating me to the punch on that. I'm tired of saying it. Anyone who thinks Nirvana is responsible for the death of hair metal is either suffering from collective amnesia or simply wasn't alive during the late 80s and early 90s.

I agree with HappyHarryHardOn, although he presents a perspective I never considered before. So kudos. I *was* around in the late '80s and early '90s and was very active in the "alternative" music scene. And while I agree the hair-band thing was in decline it was still very much alive. As late as 1991, in my town, every bar band was doing Poison or Warrant covers and the drivers in the warehouse I worked in had long extended conversations about Sebastian Bach being one of the best rock vocalists evar.

By 1992 it was over. I mean *over*. Not so much Nirvana but every shiatty band in the country had a vocalist that tried to sound like Eddie Vedder and I heard so-called real musicians complain about bands like Nirvana getting all the attention while they and their ``superior`` musical chops couldn`t get any attention.

It was an interesting time, that`s for sure.

HappyHarryHardOn: mahavishnunj: Mugato: Guns n Roses killed hair metal, not those whiny, 2 chord douchebags.

guns n roses were just as hair metal as britny fox and cinderella, dont kid yourself.

thanks,was going to say this. how can Guns/roses kill something they are... I mean, have you seen the bands they all were in before forming Guns? talk about hairspray

Yep, but after Appetite for Destruction hit, the hair bands all took off the make-up, calmed down a little on their hair, and tried to be "serious rock bands". Hell, Axl himself did it AFTER "Welcome to the Jungle".

Claiming "look what they were before!" doesn't prove a point at all.

Giving Nirvana all the credit is disingenuous, since hair metal was already dying by the time Nevermind blew up.

/Cobain was overrated.

HappyHarryHardOn: mahavishnunj: Mugato: Guns n Roses killed hair metal, not those whiny, 2 chord douchebags.

guns n roses were just as hair metal as britny fox and cinderella, dont kid yourself.

thanks,was going to say this. how can Guns/roses kill something they are... I mean, have you seen the bands they all were in before forming Guns? talk about hairspray


Have you seen Dimebags early 80s photos? Go to Metal Sludge and see for yourself, everyone did it who cares.

StuckInTO: I agree with HappyHarryHardOn, although he presents a perspective I never considered before. So kudos. I *was* around in the late '80s and early '90s and was very active in the "alternative" music scene. And while I agree the hair-band thing was in decline it was still very much alive. As late as 1991, in my town, every bar band was doing Poison or Warrant covers and the drivers in the warehouse I worked in had long extended conversations about Sebastian Bach being one of the best rock vocalists evar.

By 1992 it was over. I mean *over*. Not so much Nirvana but every shiatty band in the country had a vocalist that tried to sound like Eddie Vedder and I heard so-called real musicians complain about bands like Nirvana getting all the attention while they and their ``superior`` musical chops couldn`t get any attention.

It was an interesting time, that`s for sure.

I don't entirely agree with RevMercutio's assessment that GNR deserves credit for killing hair metal. The cause of hair metal's death was suicide. Once the new bands latched onto what was seen as the formula for success, they continued to aim their merchandise at a younger and younger, predominantly female, audience. The teenage high school hair metal boys of the mid to late 80s were college age by the late 80s and early 90s. The fans grew up, the music didn't.

Most people would be hard pressed to name a single "hair metal" band that emerged between 1988 and 1991, because none did in any meaningful way. GNR's success paved the way for a little band called Metallica to gain their first platinum album, and the mainstream rock charts were being invaded by much more progressive and alternative bands like Faith No More, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Nine Inch Nails and Jane's Addiction.

When the Seattle scene happened, it essentially just gave the media a cheap and easy way to identify the new old wave as "grunge."

Unlike Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, Alice in Chains, etc. (who were arguably better bands but merely had a classic rock sound with a modern sensibility), Nirvana had the luxury of riding that wave highest in the press by not sounding like anything the mainstream had ever heard before. Sure, they may've ripped off Melvins, Sonic Youth, and Pixies... but who in the mainstream had ever heard of those groups before?

I really love Nirvana, but they get a lot of credit for shiat they didn't really do.

I also really love a lot of cheesy, unpretentious hair metal. I think it's good, dumb fun. Sometimes an old Poison tune can go down like a cold beer on a hot summer day. And I'd be willing to make the argument that Sebastian Bach was (and is) one of the most underrated rock singers alive today.

Anybody else notice how all the information in that article is contained in the FARK headline?

The Dynamite Monkey: craigdamage: I just don't regard them as some major original force that changed the face of music. Simply,they were a decent Beatles facsimile.

With songs written by boyce and hart, neil diamond, and other greats.

Nothing wrong with the Monkees -- they were proof that songwriting is everything in popular music.

All four members of the Monkees had either full or partial writing credits on their albums, with Mike Nesmith being the most prolific (and best). They also played their own instruments on many of their albums, and released scores of great songs that didn't sound like the Beatles.

/Unashamed Monkees fan since 1986

I remember hearing about an encounter between Cobain and Axl at some awards show, where Courtney Love was talking shiat about Axl.

Axl approached Cobain and told him he "better tell (his) biatch to shut up." Cobain turned to Courtney and said, "Shut up, biatch." Everyone but Axl had a good chuckle.

Courtney Cox-Zucker: RevMercutio: But it isn't true. "Hair metal" was already dead when Nevermind blew up. Guns n Roses did the damage.

Amen for beating me to the punch on that. I'm tired of saying it. Anyone who thinks Nirvana is responsible for the death of hair metal is either suffering from collective amnesia or simply wasn't alive during the late 80s and early 90s.

I dunno, Nevermind was 1991 and knocked Michael Jackson off the charts back when that was a difficult thing to do. Poison's "Unskinny Bop" (which I strongly remember the most popular kid at school being really into) came out in 1990, so that turdtrain was still chugging along for a while. It was surely dying out, and Guns N' Roses helped that, but Nirvana was the ultimate death knell for overblown rock, be it hair metal like Poison or actual rock like GnR that happened to be a bit histrionic. I think people should be able to agree though that there is a distinction between GnR and most hair metal. One is saying "talk dirty to me" and the other is saying "turn around b*tch, I got a use for you". GnR had the attitude that a lot of hair metal lacked, but Nirvana was raw and killed all the pomposity. And as far as the other bands in the respective eras are concerned, I'll take Mark Lanegan over Sebastian Bach any goddamned day of the week, even if Bach is on Trailer Park Boys.

Nirvana may not have killed a 300 pound juggernaut in personal combat, but they did pull the plug on granny's life support machine.

RevMercutio:

/Cobain was overrated.

Overrated how? Songwriting? Execution? Please explain, because as a songwriter he was top notch.

seabass242: RevMercutio:

/Cobain was overrated.

Overrated how? Songwriting? Execution? Please explain, because as a songwriter he was top notch.

And a pretty fair marksman too!

To be fair, would you want to meet Axl Rose? By all accounts he should be a roadside attraction, as the World's Biggest Douche.

MikoSquiz

Second biggest douche. Biggest is Fred Phelps.

SuperCatBarf: I remember hearing about an encounter between Cobain and Axl at some awards show, where Courtney Love was talking shiat about Axl.

Axl approached Cobain and told him he "better tell (his) biatch to shut up." Cobain turned to Courtney and said, "Shut up, biatch." Everyone but Axl had a good chuckle.

I get the feeling that Axl has never had a "good chuckle" in his life.

seabass242: RevMercutio:

/Cobain was overrated.

Overrated how? Songwriting? Execution? Please explain, because as a songwriter he was top notch.

I think in all of the categories you mentioned, he was one of the greatest ever lived.

He was overated as some sort of rebel who was against the system; yet, his band was as mainstream MTV act as anything at that time. The guy was a big enough pussy not to say NO and not perform in every single stupid teen magazine interview or TV gig at the top of their careers. Maybe he was just really dumb and signed some contract that made him a puppet of the label (much like Billy Joel did).

Swizzle Dick:

And a pretty fair marksman too!

A new monitor you owe me...

"It's okay to eat fish 'cause they don't have any feeeeeeeeeeelings..."

GibbyTheMole: MikoSquiz

Second biggest douche. Biggest is Fred Phelps.

Third, unless you meant Fred Durst.

seabass242: Overrated how? Songwriting? Execution? Please explain, because as a songwriter he was top notch.

no he wasnt, he sucked. he wrote maybe 4 ok songs out of what-1000? thats the dartboard theory in action. and one of those 4 is a melvins song sped up so in reality, 3.

Swizzle Dick: And a pretty fair marksman too!

lol

OK, heavy metal , like someone mentionned, was doing a good job at committing suicide all it's own, but you'd be farked in the head to stand here and argue that Nirvana wasnt't their final nail in the coffin. MOst of these metal bands admitted it themselves, as the reason they went from playing stadiums to little clubs


mainly, like i said in my Boobies, not because nirvana slayed them with their music, but it was shift in the listener's tolerance for "bullshiat metal posing and fake attitude"


But as far as Guns/roses go, the only thing they killed is themselve, with their own pretensions: Suddenly, axel wanted to do metal involving keyboards and $60 million videos involving dolphins... even Slash was confused

Flagg99: The problem with Nirvana/Kurt knocking all the metal bands is... he became them. "Alternative"/grunge simply replaced metal as the next industry-backed marketing phenom.

This was hardly Kurt's fault though. We were all ready for something different and here it was, and in came the suits to convince me that I should wear a flannel shirt to class in May. I mean it's not like Nirvana was Candlebox here or anything; there were certainly "grunge" or "alternative" acts floating around before Nirvana got together but they certainly were a trend setter for this...whatever you want to call it.

spanish flea: I think in all of the categories you mentioned, he was one of the greatest ever lived.

Look, I like Nirvana, but goddamn, Nirvana is amazing if you know dick-all about the 80s underground. Go buy a Big Black, Dinosaur Jr, Sonic Youth, Loop, My Bloody Valentine, etc. etc. etc. album and witness some true innovators.

FeedTheCollapse: spanish flea: I think in all of the categories you mentioned, he was one of the greatest ever lived.

Look, I like Nirvana, but goddamn, Nirvana is amazing if you know dick-all about the 80s underground. Go buy a Big Black, Dinosaur Jr, Sonic Youth, Loop, My Bloody Valentine, etc. etc. etc. album and witness some true innovators.

Categories he mentioned did not include innovation but song writing and execution. Innovation trophy goes to Sonic Youth because of their SYR series.

GibbyTheMole: MikoSquiz

Second biggest douche. Biggest is Fred Phelps.

your just jealous cause you cant swim and win gold medals.

Nirvana is extremely overrated.

Grunge's popularity quickly overtook the hair band popularity, but look which genre is selling more concert tickets these days.

Hair metal was fun. That's all it was ever meant to be. Who wants to go on listening to depressing crap from a depressed singer with a skank wife who capped himself. It's not emo rock...not quite, but it's a lot closer to emo than GNR.

spanish flea: Categories he mentioned did not include innovation but song writing and execution.



sorry, to me songwriting is way too nebulous of a category to really define. Nirvana wasn't really doing anything that the underground wasn't already doing, they just had the luck to at least be good enough to not come off as total knock-offs.

At best, Nirvana's legacy was that, for a brief moment, it was possible for bands who would've otherwise been completely ignored a few years early to bask in some kind of success or to bring the previously mentioned bands some kind of semi-mainstream legacy. But that says less about Nirvana and more about the bands surrounding them.

again, I like Nirvana, but the weird history-rewriting about them is just damn annoying and the fans who seem to canonize him up with Hendrix, The Beatles, etc tend to come off as very ignorant of where he was coming from.

that and it's annoying as fark seeing Nevermind in every single Top Ten Albums Ever list. good album, not great, certainly not top ten.

purple helmet: Nirvana is extremely overrated.

Grunge's popularity quickly overtook the hair band popularity, but look which genre is selling more concert tickets these days.

Hair metal was fun. That's all it was ever meant to be. Who wants to go on listening to depressing crap from a depressed singer with a skank wife who capped himself. It's not emo rock...not quite, but it's a lot closer to emo than GNR.

Fun or not, hair metal is basically bad pop with heavier guitars. Yes, I'll take Nirvana over that Cherry Pie song.