Sheesh:

It ought not to be necessary to point out the differences between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Mr Saakashvili's Georgia, but for those blinded by moral relativism, here goes - Georgia did not invade its neighbours or use chemical weapons on their people. Georgia did not torture and murder hundreds of thousands of its own citizens. Georgia did not defy international demands for a decade and ignore 18 UN Security Council resolutions to come clean about its weapons programmes.

True, in a very narrow sense.

Georgia invaded its own nominal territory and used conventional arms on its own people.

And the Russians have not deposed Saakashvili and imposed their own pro-Russia regime.

So pretending that the situations are exactly similar is, of course, ridiculous--but it seems that is happening in reverse, too.

And to pretend that either side is unequivocally the 'good' guys and one side is the 'bad' guys is as ridiculous.

I know another country that turned conventional arms on it's own people when a southern separatist territory declared their own country for economic and social reasons.

Skleenar: Sheesh:


It ought not to be necessary to point out the differences between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Mr Saakashvili's Georgia, but for those blinded by moral relativism, here goes - Georgia did not invade its neighbours or use chemical weapons on their people. Georgia did not torture and murder hundreds of thousands of its own citizens. Georgia did not defy international demands for a decade and ignore 18 UN Security Council resolutions to come clean about its weapons programmes.


True, in a very narrow sense.

Georgia invaded its own nominal territory and used conventional arms on its own people.

And the Russians have not deposed Saakashvili and imposed their own pro-Russia regime.

So pretending that the situations are exactly similar is, of course, ridiculous--but it seems that is happening in reverse, too.

And to pretend that either side is unequivocally the 'good' guys and one side is the 'bad' guys is as ridiculous.

shhhhhh!!!! Your going to ruin the new cold war!

Skleenar: Sheesh:


It ought not to be necessary to point out the differences between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Mr Saakashvili's Georgia, but for those blinded by moral relativism, here goes - Georgia did not invade its neighbours or use chemical weapons on their people. Georgia did not torture and murder hundreds of thousands of its own citizens. Georgia did not defy international demands for a decade and ignore 18 UN Security Council resolutions to come clean about its weapons programmes.


True, in a very narrow sense.

Georgia invaded its own nominal territory and used conventional arms on its own people.

And the Russians have not deposed Saakashvili and imposed their own pro-Russia regime.

So pretending that the situations are exactly similar is, of course, ridiculous--but it seems that is happening in reverse, too.

And to pretend that either side is unequivocally the 'good' guys and one side is the 'bad' guys is as ridiculous.

Oh, I think the distinction between good and bad guys is pretty clear, but it was predictable (and actually predicted) that Russia would use Iraq as precedent or justification. That doesn't make Russia actually justified, but it ought to be a cautionary tale for us.

Asa Phelps: southern separatist territory

Well, to be accurate, South Ossetia is in the north of Georgia.

I award you half credit.

I can't wait until the shooting starts so I can say "This cold war just got hot" like in Lost in Space the movie with Matt LeBlanc.


i-i'll show myself out

Ah yes, "moral relativism." The buzzword of limp-wristed ninnies.

This would be a relevant distinction had we invaded Iraq in 1988.

filth: Oh, I think the distinction between good and bad guys is pretty clear,

Who is good and who is bad?

FTA:


Once again, the Europeans, and their friends in the pusillanimous wing of the US Left, have demonstrated that, when it come to those postmodern Olympian sports of synchronized self-loathing, team hand-wringing and lightweight posturing, they know how to sweep gold, silver and bronze.

Yeah, that's as far as I could make it.

"And the Gold for Overwritten Partisan Drivel goes to..."

Well Georgia did try to roll armor over mostly unarmed people. Maybe they were building up to the chem weapons?

*checks the top of the screen*

But is the article Printer Friendly?

Georgia did not invade its neighbours or use chemical weapons on their people. Georgia did not torture and murder hundreds of thousands of its own citizens.

That's irrelivent. None of those are the reasons we invaded Iraq.

Georgia did not defy international demands for a decade and ignore 18 UN Security Council resolutions to come clean about its weapons programmes.

Well... we didn't find any weapons, so obviously Iraq did complie.

Skleenar: And to pretend that either side is unequivocally the 'good' guys and one side is the 'bad' guys is as ridiculous.

That's what I thought when I RTFA. Everything but the author's vocabulary is very childish and two dimensional.

The toilet water swirls differently in one country, but not the other.

He may be a Brit, but he's every bit a neocon it seems. Does he really want to tug at the thread of "moral relativism?"

He's just preferring to focus on one abstraction of the two situations. That doesn't make the other abstract comparison of unprovoked invasions incorrect.

And to pretend that either side is unequivocally the 'good' guys and one side is the 'bad' guys is as ridiculous.

And to pretend that that means that the two sides are morally equal is equally ridiculous.

Oh, I think the distinction between good and bad guys is pretty clear,

Then you have let the guys on one side do all your thinking for you.

Asa Phelps: I know another country that turned conventional arms on it's own people when a southern separatist territory declared their own country for economic and social reasons.

Lilliput? That's Big-Ender talk.

Actually, I C.S.A. what you did there.

No the really big difference as far as the USA is concerned is that we faced no real consequences of changing the government in Iraq except for the cost of the occupation. Whereas anything we do in Georgia we will face the very real consequence of facing a regional power.

Russia is no longer a Superpower, but it is a regional power.

Despite all the hand wringing, Iraq might turn out positive for the world if the moderate government there can last. But NOTHING good could possibly come from a shooting war with Russia.

I'm confused. Is this article anti-American? I found it to be a little scattered in parts, and pedantic in others. Moral: Relativism.

What exactly was the US position toward Saddam Hussein at the time he was gassing his own people? It seems that the "US Left" aren't the only ones who know a little something about moral relativism.

Welcome back Cold War, we really missed ya.....

Oh, thank God it's printer friendly. I can't wait to post it next to the entrance to my giant Internet Tough Guy cubicle fortress.

Skleenar: filth: Oh, I think the distinction between good and bad guys is pretty clear,

Who is good and who is bad?

If we can't tell, maybe we should stay out of it.

ha ha guy: And to pretend that either side is unequivocally the 'good' guys and one side is the 'bad' guys is as ridiculous.

And to pretend that that means that the two sides are morally equal is equally ridiculous.

I think the most ridiculous thing is to pretend that morals have anything to do with our involvement/noninvolvement.

/or the most ridiculous thing might be this:

Skleenar:
Georgia invaded its own nominal territory and used conventional arms on its own people.

Obviously this is different because when Saddam invaded Kuwait it was with the mistaken implicit approval of the acting president of the United States where as Mikheil only had the implicit approval of a presidential candidate.

What's really scary is how much credibility has been taken out of being a Nazi -- as the right insensately screams about appeasement.

STOP CRYING WOLF IDIOTS. you're going to get us in trouble.

The angle I'm not seeing much in the press is that the cesession of S. Ossetia was probably fomented by russia, and all the ethnic-russian leadership in S. Ossetia is former soviet party bosses.

Diogenes: He may be a Brit, but he's every bit a neocon it seems.

Yep, they have them over there too, except they call them "bangers."

Or maybe that's "lorries."

I have long advocated full scale invasion and subjugation of Georgia... but not the slavic one. Who cares about that one?

ivanmarsh: Georgia did not defy international demands for a decade and ignore 18 UN Security Council resolutions to come clean about its weapons programmes.

Well... we didn't find any weapons, so obviously Iraq did complie.

Not to mention the fact that we're not the UN. That's like me arresting you for not paying your parking tickets.

Skleenar: filth: Oh, I think the distinction between good and bad guys is pretty clear,

Who is good and who is bad?

Georgia good; Russia bad. 'Til the pigs tell me different.

Wait, Wait!! I know. *raises hand and waves wildly*

Georgia attacked Russian territory and Saddam didn't attack the U.S.!!! Would that be a difference?

Do I get a gold star?

I came in here for the "Georgia, not 'Georgia'" jokes, and I was repeatedly, repeatedly not disappointed.

Impudent Domain: No the really big difference as far as the USA is concerned is that we faced no real consequences of changing the government in Iraq except for the cost of the occupation. Whereas anything we do in Georgia we will face the very real consequence of facing a regional power.

Russia is no longer a Superpower, but it is a regional power.


You might want to read up on this little "regional power" next to Iraq whom has suddenly felt compelled to fast track their quest to acquire nuclear weapons since we showed up in their backyard.

Hey Republicans!

Get yer brand-spanking new Fascist talking points here!

If it had been up to jackasses like this, the US would have allied with Hitler during WWII.

So when China attacks its state of Taiwan I expect no bytching by the US

One of the better written articles I have seen in a long time.

Once again, the Europeans, and their friends in the pusillanimous wing of the US Left, have demonstrated that, when it come to those postmodern Olympian sports of synchronized self-loathing, team hand-wringing and lightweight posturing, they know how to sweep gold, silver and bronze

I'm glad he got that out of the way at the very beginning. I didn't picture him foaming spittle from his mouth with neck veins bulging at first.

Jacobin: Wait, Wait!! I know. *raises hand and waves wildly*

Georgia attacked Russian territory and Saddam didn't attack the U.S.!!! Would that be a difference?

Do I get a gold star?

Tell you what, I'll give you a gold medal. I think they give everyone a medal who competes in the special olympics.

Georgia didn't attack Russia.

I know! I know! I know!!!!

The difference is:

Georgia: Won medals at the olympics

..uh, that's all I can think of right now

Where we stand right now, the differences between Iraq and Georgia do not matter. Our reason to invade Iraq turned out to be a joke, and we have become an international laughingstock because of our actions. We have literally no credibility when dealing with this situation.

Whether Russia is right or wrong, whether Georgia is right or wrong, it doesn't matter. Whatever we say at this point in admonishment is nothing more than a tragic joke. "You can't just invade another country!" is rightfully met with "STFU, fool."

If we didn't go into Iraq like warhungry retards, we would have some standing and probably have a much better chance at defusing this situation with much less bloodshed.

Skleenar, you are seriously spinning hard here. You're acting like the South Ossetian seperatists hadn't been attacking Georgians in majority Georgian towns that prompted them to send troops in to stop the violence. Neither side here had clean hands, but the Russian response was so completely disproportionate, I can't understand why you seem to be defending them.

Wake up people! Russia is at it again. They've invaded Georgia-- what more indication of their hostilities do you need? Alabama or Florida could be next!

coma: Obviously this is different because when Saddam invaded Kuwait it was with the mistaken implicit approval of the acting president of the United States where as Mikheil only had the implicit approval of a presidential candidate.

Came to say something like that.
When we told Saddam it would be OK to invade Kuwait, we were lying because we wanted a reason to attack him.
When we told Saakashvili it would be OK to invade S. Ossetia, we were lying because we wanted Russia to attack him.
No comparison.

drjekel_mrhyde: So when China attacks its state of Taiwan I expect no bytching by the US

They'd probably make their move if not for the Olympics.

I take it "moral relativism" is the opposite of "infantile jingoism".

Shaskvili wrote a check his mouth couldn't cash. Who put him up to it? Smells like Rove. Is there any chance whatsoever that I'd believe the lying bloviating pieces of shiat who want to jump start the cold war by shelling civilians in Ossetia? Go ahead, yell s'more. It'll be just like 2002.

filth [TotalFark] 2008-08-15 11:50:13 AM


Oh, I think the distinction between good and bad guys is pretty clear, but it was predictable (and actually predicted) that Russia would use Iraq as precedent or justification. That doesn't make Russia actually justified, but it ought to be a cautionary tale for us.


QFT. Iraq was dumb not because Hussein didn't need to be removed but because it wasn't in anyone's interest to do so. Georgia did not need to be invaded by Russia, but i'm glad Putin made this error because now he's forced Europeans and others to see him for what he is, a tinpot dictator.

If indeed Obama gets elected to the presidency, this incident should convince him that 'talking more' means nothing in places like Russia. I hope. Signing a missile agreement with Poland was exactly the right move at exactly the right time, to remind the Russians that killing people in Georgia will cause a loss of face internationally.