So the crazy drooling guy with post traumatic stress has the better plane right smitty?

Do you have any idea the size of the hole you're in?

I assume by "pickpocketing" you mean "paying back some of what we spend"?

i, for one, can't wait to have the money i earn from waking up everyday and going to my job taken from me and distributed to those who make no effort towards working.

omg u guys taxes have funded every government that ever existed but i just realized its actually STEALING!!!

tgregory: i, for one, can't wait to have the money i earn from waking up everyday and going to my job taken from me and distributed to those who make no effort towards working.

I have news for you, it already is. But instead of being redirected to people who already have an assload of cash, maybe it will be redirected to people who don't. I doubt it, but maybe.

tgregory: i, for one, can't wait to have the money i earn from waking up everyday and going to my job taken from me and distributed to those who make no effort towards working.

I'm glad you have simplified it so much for the rest of us.

tgregory: i, for one, can't wait to have the money i earn from waking up everyday and going to my job taken from me and distributed to those who make no effort towards working.

Yeah, my sixteen-year-old brother-in-law with MD and Asperger's should go out and get a damn job if he wants to pay for his personal aide.

OlafTheBent: So the crazy drooling guy with post traumatic stress has the better plane right smitty?

Actually I think the plane Obama flies in is better.

baorao: I assume by "pickpocketing" you mean "paying back some of what we spend"?

I don't remember spending that much money on pork.

Yanks_RSJ: I don't remember spending that much money on pork.

You're obviously not from the South.

You mean his plan for ending the latest idiotic adventure in trickle-down economics?

The Icelander: tgregory: i, for one, can't wait to have the money i earn from waking up everyday and going to my job taken from me and distributed to those who make no effort towards working.

Yeah, my sixteen-year-old brother-in-law with MD and Asperger's should go out and get a damn job if he wants to pay for his personal aide.


Pretty sure that's his parents' job, not mine/the other taxpayers.

/just saying

serpent_sky: The Icelander: tgregory: i, for one, can't wait to have the money i earn from waking up everyday and going to my job taken from me and distributed to those who make no effort towards working.

Yeah, my sixteen-year-old brother-in-law with MD and Asperger's should go out and get a damn job if he wants to pay for his personal aide.


Pretty sure that's his parents' job, not mine/the other taxpayers.

/just saying

Pretty sure you're not gonna get any help when you have a car accident, since you should have to pay for all the damage out-of-pocket.

/idiot.

Good. It's about time we owned up as a country and took care of our financial problems.

cameroncrazy1984: serpent_sky: The Icelander: tgregory: i, for one, can't wait to have the money i earn from waking up everyday and going to my job taken from me and distributed to those who make no effort towards working.

Yeah, my sixteen-year-old brother-in-law with MD and Asperger's should go out and get a damn job if he wants to pay for his personal aide.


Pretty sure that's his parents' job, not mine/the other taxpayers.

/just saying

Pretty sure you're not gonna get any help when you have a car accident, since you should have to pay for all the damage out-of-pocket.

/idiot.

Ummm... considering that I pay for insurance, I would get help if something like that happened -- from the company/policy I have paid into, minus any deductibles. I pay a good amount every month to insure my vehicle and save myself from that sort of problem.

/but do go on.

serpent_sky: Ummm... considering that I pay for insurance, I would get help if something like that happened

So...welfare recipients don't? In my state to get welfare you have to meet all kinds of criteria, like having worked for a certain amount of time, etc. It's not like they grow up and then just receive government handouts because they don't want to work.

serpent_sky: Pretty sure that's his parents' job, not mine/the other taxpayers.

Yup. Don't need to help those cripples. It's not your fault he has bad genes. I mean, are there no workhouses? Are there no charities?

\Better for them to die off and decrease the surplus population, I guess.

Not to mention I was unemployed for a month. If it weren't for state unemployment checks, paid for by the government, plus my savings, I would have lost my house and cars and been an even bigger burden on the economy.

People who don't need help are always the first to say we shouldn't pay taxes to help people.

The Icelander: Yeah, my sixteen-year-old brother-in-law with MD and Asperger's should go out and get a damn job if he wants to pay for his personal aide.



Mongs raised entire families back in the day.

ANYONE can hold down a job at McDick's.

SchlingFo: The Icelander: Yeah, my sixteen-year-old brother-in-law with MD and Asperger's should go out and get a damn job if he wants to pay for his personal aide.



Mongs raised entire families back in the day.

ANYONE can hold down a job at McDick's.

Wow. You're a complete asshole.

cameroncrazy1984: Wow. You're a complete asshole.

Dude, I see Mongs doing VERY well working at fast-food restaurants. In general, they're usually better than the "normal" workers.

You don't need the ability to interact with people to mop a floor.

SchlingFo: You don't need the ability to interact with people to mop a floor.


God help me, but I'm finding humor in this...

The Icelander: People who don't need help are always the first to say we shouldn't pay taxes to help people.

Very true. Or once they needed help and they've forgotten.

The Icelander: Not to mention I was unemployed for a month. If it weren't for state unemployment checks, paid for by the government, plus my savings, I would have lost my house and cars and been an even bigger burden on the economy.

People who don't need help are always the first to say we shouldn't pay taxes to help people.

Um, actually, you pay into unemployment -- they take money out of every check you receive to fund it. It's really your money, and it's been held by the government in case you need it.

I've been unemployed since June... just got hired somewhere and start in just over a week. I only just started getting unemployment because I had severance pay. Sure, I need help, but I'm not getting a handout -- that's years of me paying into the system coming back to me.

tgregory: i, for one, can't wait to have the money i earn from waking up everyday and going to my job taken from me and distributed to those who make no effort towards working.

Yes, and how dare that company take my work from me and sell it for more than they paid me. That company is stealing from me, and I deserve a share of the profits!

serpent_sky: Sure, I need help, but I'm not getting a handout -- that's years of me paying into the system coming back to me.


Kind of like Social Security. Kind of like Welfare would be if you ever ended up needing that. Kind of like any and every program out there - depending on how far you fall...

*sigh*

raising taxes is not the answer. we keep raising taxes and hoping that will get us through one more year, one more election....but we're running out of time. The baby boomers are hitting retirement age and they are going to want their social security 'windfall'. They're finding out that it amounts beer money, but they don't care - they want it even if it's pocket change. And WE have to foot the bill for that. Plus, we have to pay for our war in Iraq as well as 'universal health care' and now we have to pay for a bunch of failed mortgages. Not to mention that we have to pay for the welfare kids and our 'war on drugs' weirdness.

There's several other big ticket items on the list as well, but those are the high points. Raising taxes WILL NOT WORK. we need to cut spending, we need to END certain programs and we need to admit that socialism has failed us.

But we won't do it. we'll keep sucking money out of whatever is left of our economy. Never mind the fact that we're devaluing the dollar into oblivion, we just keep right on spending money like there's no tomorrow.

farking morons.

Nestea Plunge: You're going to have to pay taxes, anyway, no matter what society you live in, GOPers are just insecure and possessive.

That's not the issue. we all understand that taxes are a necessary evil.

What offends me is when I see the deficit expand by leaps and bounds to cover the housing bubble implosion. why in the HELL did we bail out the mortgage industry!? And then Obama wants 'universal health care' on TOP of that debt?!

we have to cut spending. phasing out social security is the only real solution. it's either that or we wait for it to collapse on it's own.

Weaver95: Raising taxes WILL NOT WORK. we need to cut spending, we need to END certain programs and we need to admit that socialism has failed us.


Socialism? So in other words you're just over the edge and incapable of reason?

Failed who, by the way? Social Security is working out great for my parents and my grandmother. So is MediCare.

What you need to realize, at a bare minimum, is that as long as this country can afford its little wars and billions in corporate welfare and sure as farking hell can afford some basic programs for the poorest among us. Closing the offshore banking debacle will bring in enough money to pay for Social Security and MediCare forever...

pwhp_67: serpent_sky: Sure, I need help, but I'm not getting a handout -- that's years of me paying into the system coming back to me.


Kind of like Social Security. Kind of like Welfare would be if you ever ended up needing that. Kind of like any and every program out there - depending on how far you fall...

You do realize my original comment was aimed at someone complaining that a 16-year-old, not even a legal adult, should get a job to pay for some necessary care -- and all I did was point out the parents should be responsible for that, considering that example doesn't feature an adult that would need to somehow be responsible.

The one thing that strikes me is that his Social Security implementation won't take effect for at least a decade. How many revisions and changes are going to be made before then? Not to mention he won't be in office anymore, assuming he goes the distance.

It seems to me that Obama is trying to skirt the SS issue while simultaneously trying to show that he "has a plan for Social Security."

Weaver95: What offends me is when I see the deficit expand by leaps and bounds to cover the housing bubble implosion. why in the HELL did we bail out the mortgage industry!? And then Obama wants 'universal health care' on TOP of that debt?!

we have to cut spending. phasing out social security is the only real solution. it's either that or we wait for it to collapse on it's own.


You're farking delusional.

The mortgage industry was bailed out by the GOP and Bush said it was NOT a bailout. That's the guy who represents YOUR party. We had to bail it out anyway because those smarmy Republicans on Wall Street sold those loans to foreign investors. Those investors pump an assload of cash into our economy - something the majority of Americans can't afford to do. The rich got us into that mess and the middle class will pay for it. As always.

Universal Healthcare is something you clearly do not understand. I would avoid that topic if I were you.

The greatest Republican who ever lived, Ronald Reagan, insisted that Social Security be preserved. How else are seniors going to keep their homes and eat food rather than dog chow?

We cut spending during the Clinton years when he had to work with a GOP Congress and he wasn't afraid to use his veto power. Remember that? Remember the budget surplus?

pwhp_67: Weaver95: Raising taxes WILL NOT WORK. we need to cut spending, we need to END certain programs and we need to admit that socialism has failed us.


Socialism? So in other words you're just over the edge and incapable of reason?

Failed who, by the way? Social Security is working out great for my parents and my grandmother. So is MediCare.

What you need to realize, at a bare minimum, is that as long as this country can afford its little wars and billions in corporate welfare and sure as farking hell can afford some basic programs for the poorest among us. Closing the offshore banking debacle will bring in enough money to pay for Social Security and MediCare forever...

Who said that we can afford them? Aren't we borrowing to fight our wars and running a massive deficit? So, no, we cannot afford to fight wars, necessary or not. Not until we get our own backyard in order.

That includes shutting down some social programs that should be better left to personal responsibility and survival of the fittest.

HA! HA! I'm collecting welfare that all you working losers paid for. I'm going to buy a couple of 40s and then knock up a couple of skanks and you'll have to pay for my welfare babies born out of wedlock.

pwhp_67: Weaver95: What offends me is when I see the deficit expand by leaps and bounds to cover the housing bubble implosion. why in the HELL did we bail out the mortgage industry!? And then Obama wants 'universal health care' on TOP of that debt?!

we have to cut spending. phasing out social security is the only real solution. it's either that or we wait for it to collapse on it's own.


You're farking delusional.

The mortgage industry was bailed out by the GOP and Bush said it was NOT a bailout. That's the guy who represents YOUR party. We had to bail it out anyway because those smarmy Republicans on Wall Street sold those loans to foreign investors. Those investors pump an assload of cash into our economy - something the majority of Americans can't afford to do. The rich got us into that mess and the middle class will pay for it. As always.

Universal Healthcare is something you clearly do not understand. I would avoid that topic if I were you.

The greatest Republican who ever lived, Ronald Reagan, insisted that Social Security be preserved. How else are seniors going to keep their homes and eat food rather than dog chow?

We cut spending during the Clinton years when he had to work with a GOP Congress and he wasn't afraid to use his veto power. Remember that? Remember the budget surplus?

I would hope that you understand that government is not intended to run at a surplus. It is not intended to run at a deficit either. Neither one is good for the American people. A surplus means that you are taking in too much tax revenue from the people and not spending all of it on things that the American people need.

Remember kids, surplus is almost as bad as deficit when it comes to governments.

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Who said that we can afford them?


Our Congress. Or did they come up with a plan to pay for all this and I missed it? All I see is the spending and Iraq having an $80 million budget surplus...

pwhp_67: What you need to realize, at a bare minimum, is that as long as this country can afford its little wars and billions in corporate welfare and sure as farking hell can afford some basic programs for the poorest among us. Closing the offshore banking debacle will bring in enough money to pay for Social Security and MediCare forever...

ummm....what corporate welfare are you talking about dude?

Look, we have to cut spending. we keep going on like this and we'll implode what's left of our economy. social security (and much of our social programs) have to GO.

The_Six_Fingered_Man: A surplus means that you are taking in too much tax revenue from the people and not spending all of it on things that the American people need.


I know. But if I have to choose I'll go with a surplus. That way, if we run like that for a couple of years, maybe the middle class could see a tax cut for a change...

pwhp_67: The_Six_Fingered_Man: A surplus means that you are taking in too much tax revenue from the people and not spending all of it on things that the American people need.


I know. But if I have to choose I'll go with a surplus. That way, if we run like that for a couple of years, maybe the middle class could see a tax cut for a change...

If I have to choose, i'd always pick LESS government intervention. it is not the job of government to provide health care or retirement planning!

Weaver95: social security (and much of our social programs) have to GO.

Weaver95: pwhp_67: The_Six_Fingered_Man: A surplus means that you are taking in too much tax revenue from the people and not spending all of it on things that the American people need.


I know. But if I have to choose I'll go with a surplus. That way, if we run like that for a couple of years, maybe the middle class could see a tax cut for a change...

If I have to choose, i'd always pick LESS government intervention. it is not the job of government to provide health care or retirement planning!

Ding Ding Ding!

Social Security and Medicare should be left to individuals, who have no one but themselves to blame if they have to eat cat food when they get old. I knew from early on that I needed to provide for myself in retirement and not to depend on anyone else. With a small amount of luck and a whole lot of personal restraint, I won't need Social Security at all.

"Obama has collected $335,536 from 859 enlisted men and women, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. McCain -- a decorated former Vietnam POW -- has received $280,513 from 558 military personnel. And the gap is especially pronounced among members of the military stationed abroad, including in Iraq. Obama got $60,642 from 134 troops there, compared to McCain's $10,665 from 26 troops -- a 6-to-1 edge."

Interesting...

i actually just printed out the WSJ article linked to in TFA and highlighted/annotated it a bit to give to my dad.

particularly interesting points are no mention of income tax increase (it will increase to 2002 levels when the bush tax cuts expire, no matter who is elected president).

also, for my father's tax bracket (and my own), there is no capital gains tax increase, nor any payroll tax increase.

/he isn't raising my taxes, and i doubt he's raising yours

TFA: "Sen. Obama outlined a plan Thursday to raise tax rates on capital gains and dividend income from 15% to 20% for individuals and families making more than $200,000 and $250,000, respectively"

Sleeping Monkey: TFA: "Sen. Obama outlined a plan Thursday to raise tax rates on capital gains and dividend income from 15% to 20% for individuals and families making more than $200,000 and $250,000, respectively"

You realize that these are the very people investing in our economy and driving it, right? And to tax the bejesus out of their capital gains and dividends will likely lessen the potential investment dollars? It's not like Ma and Pa Kettle are out investing in Exxon or GM. People with income to do so invest capital in businesses. It's what drives the market. Tax people for investing and you discourage investing.

serpent_sky:

Pretty sure that's his parents' job, not mine/the other taxpayers.

/just saying

God, i *know*, right! It's the fault of the parents for having a disabled child. What kind of worthless libtard communist country cares for its most needy?

idiot.

The_Six_Fingered_Man: You realize that these are the very people investing in our economy and driving it, right? And to tax the bejesus out of their capital gains and dividends will likely lessen the potential investment dollars? It's not like Ma and Pa Kettle are out investing in Exxon or GM. People with income to do so invest capital in businesses. It's what drives the market. Tax people for investing and you discourage investing.

So you would prefer the tax burden be placed on Ma and Pa Kettle since they don't have enough money to invest in Exxon?

The_Six_Fingered_Man: You realize that these are the very people investing in our economy and driving it, right?

You realize that these were the capital gains rates when Clinton was president, right? We had the worst economy because of that didn't we?

/don't argue what you don't understand.

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Tax people for investing and you discourage investing.


Because there's no way in hell the rich will try and remain rich if they have to pay 5% more in capital gains taxes...