Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!

Amen.

Getting this out of the way now (with some personal modifications):

i'm glad to see the younger generation is a bit smarter about their own beliefs than their parents were. let's hope it stays this way.

burndtdan: i'm glad to see the younger generation is a bit smarter about their own beliefs than their parents were. let's hope it stays this way.

I'd like to think it's because they're more literate than their parents...especially if they're coming from places like Appalachia, where edumaction wasn't exactly en vogue back in the 50's (or thereabouts).

So, maybe, yes, our children IS learning!

And when I say "literate," I mean, they can actually READ the Bible and make up their own minds. (And, I'm sure, a lot of these kids will read the Bible and see a lot of the crazy contradictions therein, as well).

/knowledge is power

evangelical christians = lion food

Yeah be a real Christian, you know, like George W. Bush!

Blasphemy! REAL Christians love Free Markets^TM!

Where again in the bible does god say screw the poor?

Rovian: Where again in the bible does god say screw the poor?

It's that section where Don Jesus goes with his goons to the moneylenders in the temple and sees that their tables have a few "accidents".

That pretty much describes most of my friends... although we don't describe ourselves as evangelicals, just as christians.

/GObama.

"I grew up believing an evangelical couldn't be a Democrat," said Merritt, 25. "The two were mutually exclusive."

Ah yes, bias at it's finest.

I would love to see a statistically valid nationwide survey that maps the overlap between two groups...(1)those who agree strongly that torturing random suspects and killing innocent muslims is OK, and (2) those who self-identify as being "devout or evangelical christian".

Devout religiosity tends to make individuals lead peaceful lives. Widespread devout religiosity makes a society bloodthirsty and intolerant (and intolerable). 'Twas ever thus.

Rovian: Where again in the bible does god say screw the poor?

Haven't you ever read the bible?

moops:

evangelical christians = lion food

Obama's a Leo.

/theology meats leology

Start acting like real christians and we'll talk

There hasn't been a real christian since Christ, if he ever existed that is.

/Never met a Christian that didn't judge, lie or hate his neighbour.

Yayy, finally consistency: you can be anti-abortion only if you are against the war as well, in my book. Otherwise you are a sniveling hypocrite.

So..they finally realize that the GOP won't stop abortion or the homos from getting married, and they're thinking about voting for someone who may actually be a "steward of the earth"?

Wow. I may not have to continue to hate and fear all Evangelicals.

xanadian: And when I say "literate," I mean, they can actually READ the Bible and make up their own minds.

i blew my mind when i informed her the book of "revelations" did not in fact say the "antichrist" was a man, in his 40s, of muslim decent. i pretended like she should know as she would have read the book before (to save face for her), but i know she simply never has read it.

CheeseEatingBulldog: Start acting like real christians and we'll talk

There hasn't been a real christian since Christ, if he ever existed that is.

/Never met a Christian that didn't judge, lie or hate his neighbour.

Now, Jesus of Nazareth existed historically. Its whether you believe his divinity.

burndtdan: i blew my mother's mind...

ftfm. that word was kinda crucial.

Rovian:

Where again in the bible does god say screw the poor?

I'm not sure exactly where but it's among the sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance a high five.

Rovian: Where again in the bible does god say screw the poor?

Just ask the preachers of the Prosperity Gospel among the National Association of Evangelicals... and they will tell you how being poor is an outward sign of a lack of faith in Christ. Just look at them, they believe and they are all wealthy beyond measure... just give them $100 and they will pray that you see the light.

Mr_Fabulous: Devout religiosity tends to make individuals lead peaceful lives. Widespread devout religiosity makes a society bloodthirsty and intolerant (and intolerable).

I think the key flaw there is the "self-identify" part. Like, I self-identify as being the object of lust for the entire Swedish Bikini Team, but that doesn't mean I actually am.

/it's their care packages filled with panties that mean I actually am, not my self-identification

Well, ya gotta understand, once religion takes hold of a society, it can't be stopped.

burndtdan:
ftfm. that word was kinda crucial.

All the words are crucial... For example:

burndtdan: i blew my mother...

burndtdan:

i blew my mother's mind...

.... Aw, come on, now. Lead us not into temptation wot wot.

xanadian: mean, they can actually READ the Bible and make up their own minds.


Back in the day, weren't the non-clergy not allowed to read the Bible? I know it was a big deal when versions in French and English started appearing back in the 16th century, because it was only supposed to be in Latin, and the common folk (or even the nobles, who COULD read Latin) weren't supposed to be able to read it, you were only supposed to memorize the bits the church wanted you to, and accept the priests interpretation.

Seems like mighty good job security.

Code_Archeologist: Rovian: Where again in the bible does god say screw the poor?

Just ask the preachers of the Prosperity Gospel among the National Association of Evangelicals... and they will tell you how being poor is an outward sign of a lack of faith in Christ. Just look at them, they believe and they are all wealthy beyond measure... just give them $100 and they will pray that you see the light.

The prosperity gospel is utter BS. It totally ignores vast parts of the new testament, and is probably one of the worst things to happen to christianity in the last 20 years.

Jonny Chimpo: Now, Jesus of Nazareth existed historically. Its whether you believe his divinity.

Not necessarily. The trinity is not universal in Christendom. There are certainly segments that consider Jesus' divinity to heresy and a violation of 'you shall put no god before me'

So there is God. Jesus is his son, but that don't make him divine in their eyes.

The Trinity is peculiar to Western Churches -- specifically those that are directly descended or reactionaries to Catholicism.

Christianity is fun.

/We're all going to hell.

what_now:

Back in the day, weren't the non-clergy not allowed to read the Bible?

I've said before : Religion (not faith) is about vendor lock-in.

Jonny Chimpo: CheeseEatingBulldog: Start acting like real christians and we'll talk

There hasn't been a real christian since Christ, if he ever existed that is.

/Never met a Christian that didn't judge, lie or hate his neighbour.

Now, Jesus of Nazareth existed historically. Its whether you believe his divinity.

Please would you be so kind as to cite historical references?

You are not allowed to use the bible, nor any generic reference to "christ" or "christus" of which there were many.

Anyone ever see Jesus Camp?

Here's a taste. (YouTube be praised!)

You can also see the whole film by searching around YouTube for the 'parts' in 10 minute segments.

Or just go here.

"If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

That which you do to the least among you ,you do unto me. -Jesus Christ


today's megachurch mentality with political aspirations are an abomination of the true word. The Bible doesn't teach you to judge or hate. That's man's agenda that's been hitched to the true word.

I'm not a believer but at least I'm educated enough to know you're doing it wrong.

I think there are some Roman records that mention JC in some fashion or another. Back on topic...

I like to see Christians actually showing their critical thinking skills when it comes to their political choices actually meshing (or not meshing) with a political party.

Neither truly do, as one fellow in the article stated, but neither is inherently against Christians, as some are starting to discover.

The GOP has been yanking the Christians around for years, using the gays and the abortions to get them to the polls. It doesn't surprise me that some of them have woken up to the fact that they mean less than nothing to the party chiefs. I wish they would start their own party and then we could be done with them altogether.

Theaetetus: burndtdan:
ftfm. that word was kinda crucial.

All the words are crucial... For example:

burndtdan: i blew my mother...

"If Democrats begin championing the sanctity of human life and traditional marriage, they may capture some of the powerful Christian voting bloc; if Republicans can develop an aggressive platform on issues like poverty and the environment, they can reverse the erosion of their evangelical base."

/sigh. I'd rather just have them not vote at all. Putting the issue of gay marriage in front of poverty and the environment disgusts me personally. What evangelicals are saying to me in a nutshell: Well, I really hate how the republicans are sending our citizens to war, and their negligence on poverty and environmentalism... but killing a fetus is worse than killing human beings, and two gays having legal rights is an abomination in the face of starvation."

This is one of those, "we got a premise so lets go find anecdotal evidence to support it" stories. Reading the Pew Research there is no upswing in young evangelicals becoming Democrats. I would be curious to see what the poll numbers are for young evangelicals with McCain vs. Obama

CheeseEatingBulldog: Please would you be so kind as to cite historical references?

The Church of Holy Sepulchre is really good evidence he existed. It exists on the site of temple to Appolo? that was erected for the specific purpose of obsuring Jesus's tomb -- this is Roman historical record.

And if you dig thru the church that sits on top of the tomb you find contemporary graffiti. . .you know how much people love to do that (even 2000 years ago) . . .that says "Bill was here year 10, I'm carving my name in Jesus' tomb . .tagged biatch".


He was a real dude.

/atheist.

I'm just here to brag about my greenlight.

Carry on.

"I could feel God making my heart sensitive," he recalls.

I get that way too, but it's usually bacon making my heart sensitive.

shinosai: "If Democrats begin championing the sanctity of human life and traditional marriage, they may capture some of the powerful Christian voting bloc; if Republicans can develop an aggressive platform on issues like poverty and the environment, they can reverse the erosion of their evangelical base."

/sigh. I'd rather just have them not vote at all. Putting the issue of gay marriage in front of poverty and the environment disgusts me personally. What evangelicals are saying to me in a nutshell: Well, I really hate how the republicans are sending our citizens to war, and their negligence on poverty and environmentalism... but killing a fetus is worse than killing human beings, and two gays having legal rights is an abomination in the face of starvation."

Faith means you can accept that 1+1=5.

My "problem" is that 1+1=2 and will only ever equal 2 no matter what.

Hang On Voltaire: I would be curious to see what the poll numbers are for young evangelicals with McCain vs. Obama

I'll venture 50% to 20% with 30% choosing 'none of the above'.

DarnoKonrad: CheeseEatingBulldog: Please would you be so kind as to cite historical references?

The Church of Holy Sepulchre is really good evidence he existed. It exists on the site of temple to Appolo? that was erected for the specific purpose of obsuring Jesus's tomb -- this is Roman historical record.

And if you dig thru the church that sits on top of the tomb you find contemporary graffiti. . .you know how much people love to do that (even 2000 years ago) . . .that says "Bill was here year 10, I'm carving my name in Jesus' tomb . .tagged biatch".


He was a real dude.

/atheist.

And they would never build a fake tomb to strengthen the then assumed religion that was forced on all, to you know add some credibility to the myth?

Hercules also existed, really, many a greek reference to him.

Shaggy_C: Hang On Voltaire: I would be curious to see what the poll numbers are for young evangelicals with McCain vs. Obama

I'll venture 50% to 20% with 30% choosing 'none of the above'.

Maybe. And that's a huge loss to McCain, didn't Bush get like 80?

I think that McCain get's closer to 75% if he picks the Huckster, but less than 50% if he goes w/ Romney.

Hang On Voltaire:

This is one of those, "we got a premise so lets go find anecdotal evidence to support it" stories. Reading the Pew Research there is no upswing in young evangelicals becoming Democrats. I would be curious to see what the poll numbers are for young evangelicals with McCain vs. Obama

What's more important than becoming Democrats is they are questioning automatic allegiance to the festering gob of hypocrisy and Really Bad Ideas that's the GOP.

Cinaed: I like to see Christians actually showing their critical thinking skills when it comes to their political choices actually meshing (or not meshing) with a political party.

I have been ticking off Christian friends for years for pointing out the non-Christian things the Republican party does and stands for. I almost gave some old lady a catatonia when I told her that as a Christian I was thinking of voting democrat for the first time ever.

CheeseEatingBulldog: Jonny Chimpo: CheeseEatingBulldog: Start acting like real christians and we'll talk

There hasn't been a real christian since Christ, if he ever existed that is.

/Never met a Christian that didn't judge, lie or hate his neighbour.

Now, Jesus of Nazareth existed historically. Its whether you believe his divinity.

Please would you be so kind as to cite historical references?

You are not allowed to use the bible, nor any generic reference to "christ" or "christus" of which there were many.

Josephus has a passage mentioning Jesus Christ, but its authenticity is somewhat in doubt. But he also mentions John the Baptist, and James, brother of Jesus, for what it's worth.