But he's not presumptuous or arrogant. Hm mm.

Good. Now the White House knows what it's like to be upstaged by a pandering loudmouth with no real ideas.

One thing i'm curious about, since the end of the Cold War there has been a toning down on facilities used to detect incoming Soviet strikes, have these been toned down to a level of near uselessness in todays day and age, or will everything still work properly if needs be? Anyone know?

Slaxl: One thing i'm curious about, since the end of the Cold War there has been a toning down on facilities used to detect incoming Soviet strikes, have these been toned down to a level of near uselessness in todays day and age, or will everything still work properly if needs be? Anyone know?

We still have NORAD's Santa tracking software.

FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS!

this thing has really sent mccain off the deep end. he said we should fast-track Georgia's NATO application.

NATO is not a society of good feelings. it is a military alliance. this whole thing started when the president of georgia decided to shell russian backed separatists on the russian border because he thought there would be no consequences from russia. does that sound like the type of thing you want our military to be responsible for mopping up? no. and mccain not only wants to be responsible for georgia, he wants to do it as quickly as possible. jumping into bed with some idiot just because russia hates him is not smart, or tough. it is dumb. if georgia can show that it is responsible enough to be a military ally of the west, then it can join NATO. the mere fact of being overrun by Russia does not make Georgia a strategic partner of the US. especially being overrun after poking a stick in russia's eye. fast track georgia into NATO and two years from now when they do something else stupid it will be OUR military obligation.

we are not georgians, we are americans. two weeks ago georgia was a piece of trivia for having the same name as a state. in a month it will be so again. if we follow mccain's romantic and idiotically reckless plan, georgia will still be a piece of trivia, what country did we spend 100 billion dollars defending for no farking reason.

Give the old man a break. He's got to make sure Randy Scheunemann's still gets paid.

picture in article?

You know what we need? A war on another front!

He is not even President and he is trying to incite wars with nations that really have the power to cause us significant harm. One more reason not to give the crazy old man that yells a clouds access to the big farking red history eraser button.

John McCain's threats of war against Russia are making it hard for people with real jobs that are actually involved in the situation to do anything

Subby you FAIL

FTFA: "We want to avoid any armed conflict, and we will not have armed conflict," McCain said at a fundraiser yesterday in Edwards, Colo.

if he honestly sends his underlings over to interfere, the state department needs to biatch slap him. i'm sure they won't.

EsteeFlwrPot: John McCain's threats of war against Russia are making it hard for people with real jobs that are actually involved in the situation to do anything

Subby you FAIL

FTFA: "We want to avoid any armed conflict, and we will not have armed conflict," McCain said at a fundraiser yesterday in Edwards, Colo.

also FTFA: "We talk about how there's only one president at a time, so the idea that you would send your own emissaries and really interfere with the process is remarkable," said Lawrence Korb, a Reagan Defense Department official who now acts as an informal adviser to the Obama campaign. "It's very risky and can send mixed messages to foreign governments."

what would a reagan defense department official know about dealing with russia?

that, along with his rhetoric being described as "very aggressive, very belligerent", releasing a statement before the white house had a chance to do so, and the georgian president talking to him several times a day... he is sticking his nose where it doesn't belong from his position, and he is doing so belligerently. he is completely out of line.

burndtdan: if he honestly sends his underlings over to interfere, the state department needs to biatch slap him. i'm sure they won't.

What makes you think he's not doing everything the administration wants him to?

/just a thought

Hey Obama, how bout you stop being so damn presumptuous

EsteeFlwrPot: John McCain's threats of war against Russia are making it hard for people with real jobs that are actually involved in the situation to do anything

Subby you FAIL

FTFA: "We want to avoid any armed conflict, and we will not have armed conflict," McCain said at a fundraiser yesterday in Edwards, Colo.

And because McCain is already Commander in Chief and directing national policy, we should really take those words to heart.

burndtdan: what would a reagan defense department official know about dealing with russia?

that, along with his rhetoric being described as "very aggressive, very belligerent", releasing a statement before the white house had a chance to do so, and the georgian president talking to him several times a day... he is sticking his nose where it doesn't belong from his position, and he is doing so belligerently. he is completely out of line.

I dont understand why we even need to get involved. Giving humanitarian aid is fine by me and we should be doing that, but why even get involved beyond that? Why do we always have to stick our nose in everyone elses business? Not just McCain, but America in general.

Diogenes: And because McCain is already Commander in Chief and directing national policy, we should really take those words to heart.

I'm not saying we should, i'm just saying subbys an idiot because he never made a threat to Russia.

EsteeFlwrPot: Subby you FAIL

FTFA: "We want to avoid any armed conflict, and we will not have armed conflict," McCain said at a fundraiser yesterday in Edwards, Colo

For trying to avoid an armed conflict he sure is rattling that saber like he means to draw it.

Code_Archeologist: For trying to avoid an armed conflict he sure is rattling that saber like he means to draw it.

I dont think him or anyone else would be dumb enough to try to get into another war, especially with Russia. I think McCain is just trying to prove he can lead and make decisions too and that Obama isnt the only one that can play a leadership role.

Diogenes: burndtdan: if he honestly sends his underlings over to interfere, the state department needs to biatch slap him. i'm sure they won't.

What makes you think he's not doing everything the administration wants him to?

/just a thought

i wouldn't doubt they've discussed it at least. the state department should biatch slap him, but that would imply that the state department were being run competently.

EsteeFlwrPot: I dont think him or anyone else would be dumb enough to try to get into another war, especially with Russia.

would you be willing to bet your children's future on it? i don't see any reason to make that assumption.

"In the twenty-first century, countries don't invade other countries."


I cringe every single time I hear that.

EsteeFlwrPot: I dont think him or anyone else would be dumb enough to try to get into another war, especially with Russia. I think McCain is just trying to prove he can lead and make decisions too and that Obama isnt the only one that can play a leadership role.

No he isn't. You're forgetting the fact that McCain is a Cold Warrior. He's fallen back into that role. Hell, Georgia started this war, and McCain blames everything on Russia, is calling them the bad guy and is really destabilizing the whole thing. Now, did Russia overreact? Obviously, but they did react to Georgia attacking people who used Russian money, had Russian customs, had Russian passports, and as a whole very much were Russians. They acted back, and if it wasn't for McCain running around scaring the Russians, and hell everyone else, this might be much closer to resolved now. As is, the Russians are on the defensive and might be starting to think we're after them, especially as Poland had the worst timing ever with that missile defense shield.

burndtdan: would you be willing to bet your children's future on it? i don't see any reason to make that assumption.

Absolutely not, but after all the shiat we've been through in the past 7 years you would think they would be smart enough to see that war with Russia is the worst thing we could do. I have no doubts that if we did it would be the start of WW3 and we dont have the money or strenth to do that. I really think McCain just wants to prove himself to us and this is all babble. He said he didnt want armed conflict and hopefully Bush will sit down, STFU and not start something.

EsteeFlwrPot: I dont think him or anyone else would be dumb enough to try to get into another war, especially with Russia. I think McCain is just trying to prove he can lead and make decisions too and that Obama isnt the only one that can play a leadership role.

Then he's doing it wrong. Immediately placing the full burden of this incident on Russia is an overtly aggressive and unhelpful position to take. It is true that Russia was looking for an excuse to invade Georgia, everybody knew this. The fact that Georgia knowingly provoked Russia's obvious trap places an equal burden upon them.

Georgia should have waited for their acceptance into NATO before they started moving against rebels supported by the Russian military. At that point Russia would have had to back off from its aggressive stance on South Ossetia, and Georgia would have been able to secure the region.

That McCain's position to support Georgia 100% in making a bone-headed move feeds into Russia's paranoia over being surrounded on all sides by enemies. Everybody with knowledge of the region, and Russia's geopolitical rationality knows that Russia is always on a hair trigger because they are in a perpetual siege mentality. "Protecting" allies in neighboring nations is their justification for an aggressive posture which grows out of a desire to "break the siege" and remain stronger than their perceived enemies.

Of the two candidates, Obama has taken the right diplomatic tactic by castigating both sides (Russia for invading, Georgia for provoking). By Russian thought, they had to invade Georgia to protect their allies in that nation, and they see Georgia as the aggressor. Obama's scolding of Georgia protects Russian pride and eases their besieged mind set... making them easier to deal with.

Code_Archeologist: Then he's doing it wrong. Immediately placing the full burden of this incident on Russia is an overtly aggressive and unhelpful position to take. It is true that Russia was looking for an excuse to invade Georgia, everybody knew this. The fact that Georgia knowingly provoked Russia's obvious trap places an equal burden upon them.

Georgia should have waited for their acceptance into NATO before they started moving against rebels supported by the Russian military. At that point Russia would have had to back off from its aggressive stance on South Ossetia, and Georgia would have been able to secure the region.

That is very true.

Code_Archeologist: That McCain's position to support Georgia 100% in making a bone-headed move feeds into Russia's paranoia over being surrounded on all sides by enemies. Everybody with knowledge of the region, and Russia's geopolitical rationality knows that Russia is always on a hair trigger because they are in a perpetual siege mentality. "Protecting" allies in neighboring nations is their justification for an aggressive posture which grows out of a desire to "break the siege" and remain stronger than their perceived enemies.

Of the two candidates, Obama has taken the right diplomatic tactic by castigating both sides (Russia for invading, Georgia for provoking). By Russian thought, they had to invade Georgia to protect their allies in that nation, and they see Georgia as the aggressor. Obama's scolding of Georgia protects Russian pride and eases their besieged mind set... making them easier to deal with.

Good point. I wonder why McCain didnt do the same.

EsteeFlwrPot: Good point. I wonder why McCain didnt do the same.

Because he is a bloody fool who does not actually have the foreign policy chops that the media narrative has attributed to him. He still sees the world in the black and white of the Cold War, instead of the mottled shades of gray the exist today. McCain is a relic of older time, and his old ways of thinking no longer work in today's world, and will only start wars and get people killed.

Code_Archeologist: Because he is a bloody fool who does not actually have the foreign policy chops that the media narrative has attributed to him. He still sees the world in the black and white of the Cold War, instead of the mottled shades of gray the exist today. McCain is a relic of older time, and his old ways of thinking no longer work in today's world, and will only start wars and get people killed.

I guess you have a point. I dont know if I like any of the candidates anymore. If Hillary didnt turn into a biatch I would have stuck with her. I supported her until she got all nasty with her campaign. I'm probably not even going to vote, I dont know who to support.

Remember when the right-wingers were kicking up a storm about Nancy Pelosi and a bunch of other Congressmen going to Iran on a diplomatic trip? McCain's stunt is like ten times worse than that. What crazy balls do you need to send your own farking envoy to a suddenly war-engulfed region with our own government in a precarious position trying to deal with it, when you're just a Senator running for farking president?

He looks down right stupid and opportunist -- besides being unhelpful. . and maybe getting people killed.


This is what all the Judgment to Lead talk is about.

Pancakes screwed the pooch -- and maybe is getting people killed.

EsteeFlwrPot: I guess you have a point. I dont know if I like any of the candidates anymore. If Hillary didnt turn into a biatch I would have stuck with her. I supported her until she got all nasty with her campaign. I'm probably not even going to vote, I dont know who to support.

Well... there is Obama, Barr (Libertarian), Jay (Green), or Nader (Independent) to choose from.

Do some research and get educated.

Give the man a break. I'm sure he probably pooped his pants while he was saying all those things. Just guide him to his bed, and make his some toast with butter. He'll go back to sleep soon enough.

"The war is over, John."


"NOTHING IS OVER!!!"

This reminds me of the goofy dumbass who takes it upon himself to try to negotiate with Hans Gruber in Die Hard.

I'm sure we all remember what happened to him.

What does it cost for an ad that size?

Darconix: FTA: "We talk about how there's only one president at a time, so the idea that you would send your own emissaries and really interfere with the process is remarkable," said Lawrence Korb, a Reagan Defense Department official who now acts as an informal adviser to the Obama campaign.

Politics as usual. Campaign staffer accusing political rival of similar grandstanding his own candidate did the week before. Pot, kettle, Osama, etc.

How can you say in sincerity that Obama hoping that "both sides show restraint" is the same as McCain's ignorantly saying "We are all Georgians" and declaring he'll send some of his campaign heads to talk things out with Tbilisi and Moscow? Unless you're just trolling, in which case: congratu-farking-lations.

un4gvn666: This reminds me of the goofy dumbass who takes it upon himself to try to negotiate with Hans Gruber in Die Hard.

I'm sure we all remember what happened to him.

Vlad, Buby, I'm your white knight!

Darconix: un4gvn666: How can you say in sincerity that Obama hoping that "both sides show restraint" is the same as McCain's ignorantly saying "We are all Georgians" and declaring he'll send some of his campaign heads to talk things out with Tbilisi and Moscow? Unless you're just trolling, in which case: congratu-farking-lations.

Obama grandstanding through Berlin was what I was referring to. Obama opened this can of worms. I don't like the direction it's taking either, but when someone pulls a stunt like Obama did, it's certainly fair game for McCain to do this.

How does touring through Europe (weeks before the Russia/Georgia thing) on a goodwill tour, giving speeches, et cetera, at all justify McCain sending his own diplomatic envoy to one of the most precarious foreign policy situations of this year, undermining our own already tenuous authority to help?

There's a difference between "going to Europe" and "going to Europe like you're the State Department and trying to fix a brewing war in Russia and Georgia."

un4gvn666: This reminds me of the goofy dumbass who takes it upon himself to try to negotiate with Hans Gruber in Die Hard.

I'm sure we all remember what happened to him.

Harry Ellis

So its settled. McCain is so familiar with the region, has been spending "less time on his presidential campaign these days and lots of time on Georgia," and feels we're not doing enough for the region.

John McCain for President (of Georgia) in 2008!

Darconix: un4gvn666: How can you say in sincerity that Obama hoping that "both sides show restraint" is the same as McCain's ignorantly saying "We are all Georgians" and declaring he'll send some of his campaign heads to talk things out with Tbilisi and Moscow? Unless you're just trolling, in which case: congratu-farking-lations.

Obama grandstanding through Berlin was what I was referring to. Obama opened this can of worms. I don't like the direction it's taking either, but when someone pulls a stunt like Obama did, it's certainly fair game for McCain to do this.

Except that Obama didn't give that Berlin speech for the sole purpose of discussing the situation in Georgia. Whether or not you consider it "grandstanding" or a "stunt" is irrelevant, what matters is that McCain, who has no authority past his duties as a Senator of this country, is sending Joe Lieberman and some other schmuck (can't remember the name) on his behalf to discuss the situation with Georgia and Moscow. But, please, don't let that get in the way of your "But...but...Obama!" line of reasoning.

EsteeFlwrPot: Absolutely not, but after all the shiat we've been through in the past 7 years you would think they would be smart enough to see that war with Russia is the worst thing we could do.

you're relying on the discernment and judgment of the people who have shown you they have none of either, especially when it comes to starting unnecessary wars.

in short, no, i would not think they were smart enough. in fact, a very simple historical perspective on the past 8 years shows they are not anywhere near that smart.

McCain is so familiar with the region, has been spending "less time on his presidential campaign these days and lots of time on Georgia," and feels we're not doing enough for the region.

Of course he's familiar with the region. He was probably there when it broke off from the central land mass...

moistD: un4gvn666: This reminds me of the goofy dumbass who takes it upon himself to try to negotiate with Hans Gruber in Die Hard.

I'm sure we all remember what happened to him.

Harry Ellis

Thanks. Could've googled it, but couldn't muster up the effort :)

Must have missed that part where McCain advocated or suggested going to war with Russia.

He could be bodysurfing in Hawaii though.

EsteeFlwrPot: after all the shiat we've been through in the past 7 years you would think they would be smart enough to see that war with Russia is the worst thing we could do.

Every time Bush manages to eat another pretzel without offing himself, I feel like applauding.

IXI Jim IXI: McCain is so familiar with the region, has been spending "less time on his presidential campaign these days and lots of time on Georgia," and feels we're not doing enough for the region.

Of course he's familiar with the region. He was probably there when it broke off from the central land mass...

That would be funny, if Eurasia wasn't... well, the biggest landmass on the globe.

/Anal Joke-killer, Awaaaaaay!

Bloody William: /Anal Joke-killer, Awaaaaaay!

Ah well, at least we know who to come to whenever there's an anal joke rampaging through the village. :D

Darconix: Bloody William: How does touring through Europe (weeks before the Russia/Georgia thing) on a goodwill tour, giving speeches, et cetera, at all justify McCain sending his own diplomatic envoy to one of the most precarious foreign policy situations of this year, undermining our own already tenuous authority to help?

There's a difference between "going to Europe" and "going to Europe like you're the State Department and trying to fix a brewing war in Russia and Georgia."

Tell that to Jimmy Carter or Jesse Jackson who has seen fit to engage in these sorts of "goodwill" tours for decades. Senators go to Iraq and meet with Iraqi leaders all the time. The folks headed to Georgia are in fact Senators, and I'm pretty sure that the Georgia leadership are adults and aware of how the American political process works.

This is nothing new to conflict, and it certainly is not out of bounds after Obama's rock tour through Europe.

Psst: the difference is that none of that happened during a major international incident. This isn't just trying to smooth ruffled feathers. This isn't shmoozing with political leaders. This is interfering in an extremely precarious situation involving Russia invading Georgia. Call it a war, call it a civil war, but it's something that a presidential CANDIDATE shouldn't be sending his own envoy to intefere in.