cain is a cold warrior from the last century. Russia has been thier favorite boogey man since the 1950's.

oh boy, just wait until someone tells him the cold war is over and it's no longer the USSR, but I mean it has to be hard to keep track of things what with his senility and all.

i think mccain is going to jump full force into any chance he has to look "tough". he'll beat his chest like a retarded gorilla, telling them he'll chase them to the gates of hell, because he wants to rile up to idiots who get a chubby thinking about war.

that it was russia he got to beat his chest at this time was probably just a happy coincidence for him, since there are still some old jackasses who didn't realize the cold war ended and like to talk about what "ivan" is doing and why we absolutely have to get involved.

SoothinglyDeranged: oh boy, just wait until someone tells him the cold war is over and it's no longer the USSR, but I mean it has to be hard to keep track of things what with his senility and all.

Given that he still refers to them as the "Soviets," I'm not so sure it's a matter of need so much as a matter senility.

One does wonder just how much of this has been manipulated by the U.S.

smeegle: One does wonder just how much of this has been manipulated by the U.S.

i don't doubt that the US was a little bit cavalier in giving suggestions of support for georgia, which caused them to grow a bigger sack than was appropriate. i just can't say whether that was by design for this to be the result, or just that the republicans are too stupid to admit we don't have the military power free on hand to thwart the russians.

smeegle: One does wonder just how much of this has been manipulated by the U.S.

Win the election but lose the world? It's sadly believable.

burndtdan:

Who the fark knows anymore. One would think it doesn't make sense to antagonize the people you'll need to help in other regions of the world. But not much of our diplomacy has made sense for some time now.

smeegle: One does wonder just how much of this has been manipulated by the U.S.

I find it so depressing that so many of us have lost faith in our own government/country to this extent. I fully understand why, it's just sad that we can't trust them and end up suspecting them when things like this happen.

7.5 years of lies, omissions, misleading speeches, and double-speak will do that to you, I guess.

I hope the next President can restore some of our faith, as well as pick up our standing in the eyes of the world a bit. McCain will not do this, I'm fairly certain. That's why it scares me so much that he's one of two who have a shot at the office.

Diogenes: smeegle: One does wonder just how much of this has been manipulated by the U.S.

Win the election but lose the world? It's sadly believable.

People basing their vote on degrees saber rattling?
That's once again a horrific thought. I would think the Party of Moral high ground would see what a massive contradiction that is.
Sigh... I keep hoping. Ah who am I kidding?

burndtdan: smeegle: One does wonder just how much of this has been manipulated by the U.S.

i don't doubt that the US was a little bit cavalier in giving suggestions of support for georgia, which caused them to grow a bigger sack than was appropriate. i just can't say whether that was by design for this to be the result, or just that the republicans are too stupid to admit we don't have the military power free on hand to thwart the russians.

The leader of Georgia is on TV right now claiming rape, looting, killing and ethnic cleansing by the Russians. He's claiming the Russians are doing the worst of worst to his people and country.

/eeesh..this is going to get out of control. He's calling them Barbarians.

The Georgian president is on the verge of loosing his composure on CNN.serpent_sky: smeegle: One does wonder just how much of this has been manipulated by the U.S.

I find it so depressing that so many of us have lost faith in our own government/country to this extent. I fully understand why, it's just sad that we can't trust them and end up suspecting them when things like this happen.

7.5 years of lies, omissions, misleading speeches, and double-speak will do that to you, I guess.

I hope the next President can restore some of our faith, as well as pick up our standing in the eyes of the world a bit. McCain will not do this, I'm fairly certain. That's why it scares me so much that he's one of two who have a shot at the office.

Agreed. I DO NOT trust anything our administration says.

burndtdan: smeegle: One does wonder just how much of this has been manipulated by the U.S.

i don't doubt that the US was a little bit cavalier in giving suggestions of support for georgia, which caused them to grow a bigger sack than was appropriate. i just can't say whether that was by design for this to be the result, or just that the republicans are too stupid to admit we don't have the military power free on hand to thwart the russians.

I am suspicious of Condi Rices conflicting statements which leads me to believe something is afoot. What a dangerous game to play. So I also have a little doubt. I can't believe they could be so stupid.

The editorial basically implies that the PNAC agenda is alive and well and I think that has to be given some credence.

Interesting how fast we got humanitarian aid over there compared to reaction to Katrina. Were we already prepped and ready to go?

GaryPDX: The leader of Georgia is on TV right now claiming rape, looting, killing and ethnic cleansing by the Russians. He's claiming the Russians are doing the worst of worst to his people and country.

i understand, and i sympathize greatly. but unless you can magically create thousands of troops out of thin air, we can't do a god damn thing about it even if we wanted to. if you wanna fight the russians, you should be really pissed at what the republicans did to our military in the middle east. but we simply don't have the resources or anywhere near the political will to touch that hornets nest. put your boner away.

serpent_sky: smeegle: One does wonder just how much of this has been manipulated by the U.S.

I find it so depressing that so many of us have lost faith in our own government/country to this extent. I fully understand why, it's just sad that we can't trust them and end up suspecting them when things like this happen.

7.5 years of lies, omissions, misleading speeches, and double-speak will do that to you, I guess.

I hope the next President can restore some of our faith, as well as pick up our standing in the eyes of the world a bit. McCain will not do this, I'm fairly certain. That's why it scares me so much that he's one of two who have a shot at the office.

Give me a farking break.

I find it so depressing that so many of us have lost our collective common sense in our own government/country. I fully understand why, it just sad we can't reverse this lemming mentality quick enough.

How about wake up and understand you can't trust what ANY administration or politician says. Dem or Rep. ESPECIALLY in an election year!

/Damn, I'm getting old and crotchety.

Apeboy: How about wake up and understand you can't trust what ANY administration or politician says. Dem or Rep. ESPECIALLY in an election year!

I agree, but right now we have to deal with the present regime who has squandered our credibility in the global community.

Freaking Obama and him being all presumptuous

burndtdan: GaryPDX: The leader of Georgia is on TV right now claiming rape, looting, killing and ethnic cleansing by the Russians. He's claiming the Russians are doing the worst of worst to his people and country.

i understand, and i sympathize greatly. but unless you can magically create thousands of troops out of thin air, we can't do a god damn thing about it even if we wanted to. if you wanna fight the russians, you should be really pissed at what the republicans did to our military in the middle east. but we simply don't have the resources or anywhere near the political will to touch that hornets nest. put your boner away.

Well, see... the Russians probably wouldn't be doing this in the first place if the US was in any way equipped to step up and fight/deal with this. But they, and everyone in the world, knows the military is stretched thin and has been fighting a seemingly endless war [in two countries] for years now and therefore, can't do a damned thing.

It also helps them to know that the US looks like a giant hypocrite making statements about not invading sovereign nations and the like.

It's a shame that we're in this situation -- for many reasons beyond the inability to do anything about this.

/Don't blame me, I never voted for Bush.

serpent_sky: 7.5 years

Remove the "." and double it, and thats about right.

smeegle: Apeboy: How about wake up and understand you can't trust what ANY administration or politician says. Dem or Rep. ESPECIALLY in an election year!

I agree, but right now we have to deal with the present regime who has squandered our credibility in the global community.

I agree, as well... I honestly think all politicians are at least a bit crazy, considering what they're taking on, willingly. And they're all dishonest [which is why I'll never understand the shock and awe when they have affairs, etc.]

But I don't feel like there has ever been a time where everything that happens could easily be considered some manner of political maneuvering, conspiracy, or an active act against the will of the people/world. I know there have been various incidents over time, but... honestly, if someone told me they could control the weather and caused Katrina, I might pause for a second before dismissing them.

I don't think it would have been that way in the past, even understanding that leaders aren't usually the most trustworthy or sane people on earth.

serpent_sky: Well, see... the Russians probably wouldn't be doing this in the first place if the US was in any way equipped to step up and fight/deal with this. But they, and everyone in the world, knows the military is stretched thin and has been fighting a seemingly endless war [in two countries] for years now and therefore, can't do a damned thing.

It also helps them to know that the US looks like a giant hypocrite making statements about not invading sovereign nations and the like.

It's a shame that we're in this situation -- for many reasons beyond the inability to do anything about this.

serpent_sky: But I don't feel like there has ever been a time where everything that happens could easily be considered some manner of political maneuvering, conspiracy, or an active act against the will of the people/world.

No doubt the shenanigans of the past 8 years far outweigh Watergate and other like dirty play.
Libby gate
Yellow cake Gate
10 Downing Street Memo Gate
WMD Gate
etc etc

Politics is like alcohol.

Taken in moderation it is fine. It's enjoyable and doesn't cause any problems. Kinda like elections years.

Too much makes stupid and dangerous to yourself and others. This applies to both parties and all countries. This also includes those populations in the world that are allowed to vote.

From reading these comments, it appears most everyone is really blaming Bush for russia attacking georgia (completely forgetting that georgia initiated the attacks by attacking russia first).

I am so glad I have stock in Alcoa.

real shaman: From reading these comments, it appears most everyone is really blaming Bush for russia attacking georgia (completely forgetting that georgia initiated the attacks by attacking russia first).

I am so glad I have stock in Alcoa.

It's not that cut and dry.

real shaman

It's easy to connect the dots, though.

When it comes to war, I don't believe in coincidences.

Speaking of Bush, did anyone notice how stressed he seemed while making a statement to the press from the Lobby of the CIA?

Yup, if you think Bush is a war-monger just wait till McCain takes office. And unfortunately there are enough stupid people in this country to actually get him elected.

Everybody wants to be a "war president".

It's not as if we haven't told folks, "Go ahead," behind folks backs before.

Maybe Saakashvili thought we were behind him.

"We got your back man!"

--Your WAAAAAAY back...

Or he just underestimated the Russian response. Sort of passed off the passport thing as being too subtle. I think that there is less to this--I think it's more that Saakashvili took the bait, and then got caught out there.

What is wondersome, is how, with US advisers, they sort of missed all those tanks on the border. They moved up their armor, and they somehow just missed that the Russians were doing the same--albeit with ten times the numbers?

Which makes you wonder what sort of intel the Georgians got fed? Mistake? Bad interpretation? Omission? Hard to say. I'd like to think that we didn't dangle the Georgians out there.

Thing is: I don't think that Putin was such a Machiavellian mastermind that he manipulated Saakashvili into attacking so that he could whomp on them. Saw the opportunity and I think the Russians, and their advance is marked by the decided lack of a plan, other than to say, "Oh shiat, they totally did it? WTF? I guess we going in boys! Wooooo hooo!"

It points to as much surprise on their part as the Georgians for seeing such a good sized case of whoop ass on the horizon.

I'd rather think it was a very bad miscommunication, than a plan. That, or perhaps Saakashvili is so cold as to want to sacrifice his people so that he can get some sympathy, and just simply underestimated the Russian resolve to break his new toys.

No matter what, the Georgians used a ceasefire to move tanks and artillery into position, and then broke the ceasefire after putting independence on the table. For that, they don't get any medals for sympathy.

The Ossetians, maybe their attacks were a lure. To draw the Georgians out to try to hit them hard. But even still, that means that Saakashvili would have to take that bait.

I am really hoping that the US didn't manipulate the intel to just omit or downplay the Russian forces. I'm really hoping we didn't give the Georgians a greenlight with promises of support, that didn't show up.

But, there's still the mix up with Saakashvili thinking that the US would show up to take control of his airspace and port. That is a worrisome little bit of business, but I'm not ready to put it on the US yet.

hubiestubert: But, there's still the mix up with Saakashvili thinking that the US would show up to take control of his airspace and port. That is a worrisome little bit of business, but I'm not ready to put it on the US yet.

Ya I am trying to see all sides but I've got to say there is some evidence that I find puzzling and of course now Poland is on board with our missile defense plan.

Perhaps we played Georgia and Putin played the U.S. and viola we have yet another cluster.

smeegle: I am trying to see all sides but I've got to say there is some evidence that I find puzzling and of course now Poland is on board with our missile defense plan.

Perhaps we played Georgia and Putin played the U.S. and viola we have yet another cluster.

The Poland deal has been on the table for a while. I think that the Russian action sort of cemented it, and made everyone think about it damn hard--but that's something that everyone figured was a done deal, except for the details.

Has nobody addressed the greatest threat we face? Are we that blind? Is nobody attending to the true evil that plagues our future and threatens to obliterate our children?

What's being done about the Moon Men for the 3rd Planet of the Black Hole?

/dey gotz zap guns 'n' radar mind rays!

hubiestubert: smeegle: I am trying to see all sides but I've got to say there is some evidence that I find puzzling and of course now Poland is on board with our missile defense plan.

Perhaps we played Georgia and Putin played the U.S. and viola we have yet another cluster.

The Poland deal has been on the table for a while. I think that the Russian action sort of cemented it, and made everyone think about it damn hard--but that's something that everyone figured was a done deal, except for the details.

Maybe all they needed was a little "push".

smeegle: Maybe all they needed was a little "push".

I think that would be a little over the top. Probably won't stop some tin-foil hat wearing mofo to think of it later, but pretty much the Russians just dealt themselves in to the table with Iran, and every nation on Russia's border is making for damn sure that they are paying attention to what's going on.

I don't think that the Russians are going to have any problems like Dagestan brewing for a bit. And I suspect that those mofos are going to stay real quiet for a while longer.

Actually, realpolitik predicates that we take initiative. Russia is clearly starting to become an aggressor nation again. And they have nukes.

Obama would not be able to handle this crisis anymore than he would Georgia, and I think we're starting to see America wake up to its only logical choice here.

bulldg4life: Freaking Obama and him being all presumptuous

THIS!

Seriously if Obama sent aids to Georgia, Republicans would be creaming in their pants, whining about Obama is pretending to be President. God I can't stand these feckless people, an abomination to the human species.

Every day, Bush locks himself in the Oval Office bathroom, the only place where absolutely nobody has access to him, strips jay bird naked and masturbates into the 24 carat gold plated sink while staring at himself in the medicine cabinet mirror telling his reflection what a great man he is.


This made me laugh.

hubiestubert: smeegle: Maybe all they needed was a little "push".

I think that would be a little over the top. Probably won't stop some tin-foil hat wearing mofo to think of it later, but pretty much the Russians just dealt themselves in to the table with Iran, and every nation on Russia's border is making for damn sure that they are paying attention to what's going on.

I don't think that the Russians are going to have any problems like Dagestan brewing for a bit. And I suspect that those mofos are going to stay real quiet for a while longer.

Maybe, but its not like the people in the 'stans around Russia who tend to poke the bear have not always been at a massive numeric and equipment disadvantage every time they do it.

SeismicJizzer: Seriously if Obama sent aids to Georgia

Leave Rev. Wright out of this.

I'm just tired of hearing McCain's old girlfriend do the voice-overs for his ads. I keep wondering if she were the first or fifth or just before Cindy.

this is how absurd i think his campaign has become

burndtdan: i think mccain is going to jump full force into any chance he has to look "tough". he'll beat his chest like a retarded gorilla, telling them he'll chase them to the gates of hell, because he wants to rile up to idiots who get a chubby thinking about war.

that it was russia he got to beat his chest at this time was probably just a happy coincidence for him, since there are still some old jackasses who didn't realize the cold war ended and like to talk about what "ivan" is doing and why we absolutely have to get involved.

Just call 1-800-911-4911 or go to ChubbyGorilla.com and get the latest cool bumper stickers, like:

Freedom isn't free...
My blood runs red, white and blue...
Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out...
Nuke their ass, take their gas...
"My answer is bring 'em on" (G.W. Bush)

Or our best seller: GET 'ER DONE!

/appropriate

god damnit, wrong picture. let's try that again.

Fook: hubiestubert: smeegle: Maybe all they needed was a little "push".

I think that would be a little over the top. Probably won't stop some tin-foil hat wearing mofo to think of it later, but pretty much the Russians just dealt themselves in to the table with Iran, and every nation on Russia's border is making for damn sure that they are paying attention to what's going on.

I don't think that the Russians are going to have any problems like Dagestan brewing for a bit. And I suspect that those mofos are going to stay real quiet for a while longer.

Maybe, but its not like the people in the 'stans around Russia who tend to poke the bear have not always been at a massive numeric and equipment disadvantage every time they do it.

But the Russians are getting a lot better at playing those folks against one another. The IIPB really wasn't happy with the whole experience last time around.

burndtdan: farm1.static.flickr.com

I dunno. Coast Guard?

kronicfeld: burndtdan: farm1.static.flickr.com

I dunno. Coast Guard?

copy/paste screw up ftl