those too tied up with work to appreciate the finer things in life, like art, books and travel.

The problem is these aren't the universal fine things. This idea that someone needs more than a basic familiarity with the arts and books is usually a result of writers, artists, and intellectuals, mainly liberal, trying to prop up their industry. There is no need to bemoan the dwindling appreciation for art and fiction. They aren't relevant to the lives of most people.

The equivalent would be a bunch of engineers, mathematicians, and scientists starting a university so people could become farking literate in those fields. Ignorance of science is actually problematic. The arts are a luxury.

So, it appears we now have a new headline meme that is going to get relentlessly run into the ground. Oh, by the way, MY DOG WANTS STEAK LOL.

I'm surprised no one has started a "Cool School" for Farkers. Teach us how to crawl out of the basement and into a woman!

FTFA: Courses run for six weeks and cost 195 pounds.


Makes my $5 for Fark sound cheap.

I was going to present an argument to Suicidal Writer's post but I think I will side with Kronicfeld and bash the headline instead....


Stupid headline! Be more funny!

Suicidal Writer:

That's funny, because art keeps on popping up everywhere and all the time by itself.

Now as far as propping up industries go, there are any number of industries which depend somewhat on peoples' aesthetic sensibilities becoming increasingly numb and suppressed.

.

MrSinister: I'm surprised no one has started a "Cool School" for Farkers. Teach us how to crawl out of the basement and into a woman!

I woke up face down in a biatch once

.

DistendedPendulusFrenulum: That's funny, because art keeps on popping up everywhere and all the time by itself.

Humans are naturally inclined toward creative expression. These art forms are not always recognized as such. But when academics talk about the "finer" things in relation to art and literature, they mean a certain type, a certain sensibility. Rarely, if ever, does that include art like breakdancing or erotica, or literature like Stephen King and Dean Koontz. It's a certain rigid, pro-cannon position that gets to define things as "fine" or define "art."

They, also, tend to want these things to act as some sort of cultural commissure instead of languishing in obscurity. There was literature when there was near universal illiteracy and poverty. It's not the mere existence that satisfies many academics, they want to be culturally relevant and socially influential as if art and literature are still the main modes of education and cultural communication, as they were in the past. They aren't. Science has managed to usurp art (and religion) when it comes to the descriptive world. True, science is just a tool and doesn't serve, and probably shouldn't serve, as a normative guide. Art, as in fine art, in the age of specialization, probably won't reclaim the throne. The aesthetics of subcultures (especially hip-hop, emo, hipsterdom, queer identity, etc) seem to be the guide these days--oddly, it was an artistic movement, Romanticism, that probably laid the foundation for this. You can belong to one of these sub-cultures and adopt its aesthetics and ethics, all without fine art and not be any worse for it. They all have their own forms of creative expression.

UberDave: I was going to present an argument to Suicidal Writer's post but I think I will side with Kronicfeld and bash the headline instead....


Stupid headline! Be more funny!

Maybe it's getting overused, but you have to admit, it's pretty good in this application.

/not mine

Suicidal Writer: those too tied up with work to appreciate the finer things in life, like art, books and travel.

The problem is these aren't the universal fine things. This idea that someone needs more than a basic familiarity with the arts and books is usually a result of writers, artists, and intellectuals, mainly liberal, trying to prop up their industry. There is no need to bemoan the dwindling appreciation for art and fiction. They aren't relevant to the lives of most people.

The equivalent would be a bunch of engineers, mathematicians, and scientists starting a university so people could become farking literate in those fields. Ignorance of science is actually problematic. The arts are a luxury.

Even worse, at least if a group of engineers, mathematicians, and scientists did it, we would be getting something useful ;)

Fark art, let's kill!

Am I the only one who thinks that this sounds like quite a bit of fun? Who cares what the artists' motivations are. The courses are not mandatory. They are for people who want to expand their horizons and choose to do so. ~$400 isn't that much to spend on a 6 week course. Especially with the prestige of the professors and the one-on-one nature of the lessons.

The Kids at the school approve

Suicidal Writer: The equivalent would be a bunch of engineers, mathematicians, and scientists starting a university so people could become farking literate in those fields. Ignorance of science is actually problematic. The arts are a luxury.

I agree with only half of what you say. Without the Arts, especially literature, our society would be souless robots without a snippet of inspiration or understanding of the past, comprehension of the present, and purpose for the future.

I don't often agree with Suicidal Writer, but I have to this time. I've run into way too many pseudo-intellectuals over the years who view being "broad-minded" or "open-minded" as "having read everything on the List Of Cultural Works they received from their professor in some liberal arts class, which defines Everything Worth Reading or Viewing, and anything else is to be scorned." Meanwhile their grasp of even basic critical thinking skills is so sorely lacking they seem to believe 1+1=2 only because some guy said so, or that definitions are inherently useless because they rely upon language, which is just a human construct and therefore useless.

jojostan: The Kids at the school approve

One tin soldier

smeegle: Without the Arts, especially literature, our society would be souless robots without a snippet of inspiration or understanding of the past, comprehension of the present, and purpose for the future.

Which depends on how you define "the Arts." (Ignorant) People claim rap is "art" all the time, but have you been to a ghetto lately? "Soulless robots" would be a step up from your average hippity-hopper. At least soulless robots don't shoot each other because they're so ignorant of even basic concepts like "don't shoot people for wearing the wrong color t-shirt."

DistendedPendulusFrenulum:

And that's why Macs are so popular.

Suicidal Writer: those too tied up with work to appreciate the finer things in life, like art, books and travel.

The problem is these aren't the universal fine things. This idea that someone needs more than a basic familiarity with the arts and books is usually a result of writers, artists, and intellectuals, mainly liberal, trying to prop up their industry. There is no need to bemoan the dwindling appreciation for art and fiction. They aren't relevant to the lives of most people.

The equivalent would be a bunch of engineers, mathematicians, and scientists starting a university so people could become farking literate in those fields. Ignorance of science is actually problematic. The arts are a luxury.

But why is ignorance of science a problem? As long as we have a few individuals that are educated in those fields to do the hard work, research, and development we're set. Most of us only need to know what button to push to turn something on. Likewise, most people don't need any education in math beyond basic arithmetic and maybe the fundamentals of algebra. Obviously we don't need to be pushing math and science education as much as we do. Let's just give everyone the bare essentials to go about their daily lives, and the few bright individuals that show particular aptitude and interest can explore things more deeply on their own.

Oh wait, that's idiotic.

Art is not a luxury. It's a fundamental and important form of communication among human beings.

It's been said before - more suicide, less writing.

On holidays, one suggestion is to head to the Lofoten Islands, north of the Artic circle in Norway, or to take an intense, introspective journey around your own bedroom.

Porn DVD's, check. TV, check. Mini fridge stocked, check. XBOX 360, check. Paper towels, check. How long is this holiday?

This tells me everything I need to know.

Suicidal Writer: This idea that someone needs more than a basic familiarity with the arts and books is usually a result of writers, artists, and intellectuals, mainly liberal, trying to prop up their industry. There is no need to bemoan the dwindling appreciation for art and fiction. They aren't relevant to the lives of most people.

Wow. You're just incorrect.

For a couple thousand years we've had people studying "the finer things" -- creation of it, past artists, history. Liberals might be more active in the current creation of art, but the fact is, corporations and moneyed individuals -- who tend to be Republican/conservative -- are the beneficiaries of "propping up" traditional art appreciation as an industry.

Learning about universal beauty in literature, art, music, it all ties in with the standard coursework in school and it also connects with the non-school elements of spirituality and appreciation of being human. Most universities are paring away requiring classic study of art, music and literature because the market presses greater focus on production of automatons in whatever field they're producing, rather than developing people who might actually question the-soul-as-extension-of-credit-rating.

kronicfeld: So, it appears we now have a new headline meme that is going to get relentlessly run into the ground. Oh, by the way, MY DOG WANTS STEAK LOL.

YOU'LL GET OVER IT LOL!1

Hosebeatings: smeegle: Without the Arts, especially literature, our society would be souless robots without a snippet of inspiration or understanding of the past, comprehension of the present, and purpose for the future.

Which depends on how you define "the Arts." (Ignorant) People claim rap is "art" all the time, but have you been to a ghetto lately? "Soulless robots" would be a step up from your average hippity-hopper. At least soulless robots don't shoot each other because they're so ignorant of even basic concepts like "don't shoot people for wearing the wrong color t-shirt."

I understand where you are coming from. What I am refering to are books like Contours of American History and timeless music like Mozart,,,,,and and Puff Daddy (just kidding).
My point is that a balance between the hard Sciences and the Arts makes for a more well rounded society instead of morans who vote out of fear and ignorance.

MrSinister: I'm surprised no one has started a "Cool School" for Farkers. Teach us how to crawl out of the basement and into a woman!

Women are not built like Igloos.

Hosebeatings: smeegle: Without the Arts, especially literature, our society would be souless robots without a snippet of inspiration or understanding of the past, comprehension of the present, and purpose for the future.

Which depends on how you define "the Arts." (Ignorant) People claim rap is "art" all the time, but have you been to a ghetto lately? "Soulless robots" would be a step up from your average hippity-hopper. At least soulless robots don't shoot each other because they're so ignorant of even basic concepts like "don't shoot people for wearing the wrong color t-shirt."

Rap can be an art. Not all rap is about killing hoes and getting paid. The particularly artistic part is construction of the beats. Also, rap doesn't turn people into killers. They do that all by themselves.

Mr. Vicarious: Also, rap doesn't turn people into killers. They do that all by themselves.

Instead it glorifies murder.

Which is fine.

A group of artists, writers and intellectuals has launched a new "university" in London, designed to help those too tied up with work to appreciate the finer things in life, like art, books and travel.

So, the thinking is that people who are too tied up in work will have time to enroll in a six week course (195 pound or what.. about $375?)?

Seems.. a bit flawed to me.

/didn't read the whole thing

smeegle: Without the Arts, especially literature, our society would be souless robots without a snippet of inspiration or understanding of the past, comprehension of the present, and purpose for the future.

The alienation of labor would have far more to do with that than lack of deep awareness of the arts. I'm not advocating ignorance, but there is a cultural baseline that one need not go beyond if one has no desire to. The fine arts just don't speak to a lot of people.

Understanding of the past can be grasped via the study of history. Our contemporary society can be understood via the social sciences. As for the future, that depends. There are many approaches one could take, but only if one begs the question that the future has to, or is supposed to, have purpose. This whole "meaning of existence" thing is really a product of the Greeks, but is it really unacceptable to accept a purposeless, non-teleological, existence for mankind? Perhaps the human project should be dedicated to accepting purposelessness and thriving within purposelessness. Psychology, economics, biology, etc, all allow for creativity and creative expression even though they aren't arts. The biology student who will eventually be a participant in research that leads to live-enhancing drugs may not know the first thing about early modern art, but he has contributed to the enhancement of life, allowing for individuals to discover there own meaning and enjoy it a bit more. This doesn't mean "fine art" should be relegated to the dustbin, only that people have to accept that, like religion, it no longer rules culture, and isn't really relevant on any macrocosmic scale. Knowledge and creativity have become highly specialized. This means a lot of general "Renaissance Man/Woman" knowledge is less common.

Christ on a spitoon, someone offers a freaking low-cost self-improvement class and Herodotus feels the need to pull out a soap box and solo on his butt-trumpet.

This may blow your minds but people have been known to take classes based on their interests. Perhaps making coil pots, writing short stories, or selling real estate tickles your fancy. The world's your oyster!

But please don't let me stand between you and braying like an ass about the importance of the sciences vs. the liberal arts.

brap: This may blow your minds but people have been known to take classes based on their interests.



Ric 'brap' Romero.

mikaloyd: Mr. Vicarious: Also, rap doesn't turn people into killers. They do that all by themselves.

Instead it glorifies murder.

Which is fine.

I don't know what rap you are listening to, but Gangster rap is a small subset of rap as a whole. I never said all rap was art that I would appreciate. I only said that rap is an art form. So is film, that doesn't mean "Good burger" was a piece of art. There are bad examples within any art form or medium.

kronicfeld: So, it appears we now have a new headline meme that is going to get relentlessly run into the ground. Oh, by the way, MY DOG WANTS STEAK LOL.

YOU'LL GET OVER IT LOL!1

At least til the oil hits the anus...

Shut your Pye-hole, Dick.

If people don't have time to read, why would they have time to attend a class that tells them what to read?

kronicfeld: So, it appears we now have a new headline meme that is going to get relentlessly run into the ground. Oh, by the way, MY DOG WANTS STEAK LOL.

My cat wants bacon oh NOM NOM NOM.. or something...

In my spare time I get drunk and post inane comments on messageboards.

/Culture is for fags

Suicidal Writer.

Not disagreeing with you, and I don't feel like Fine Arts should be imposed upon folks who are not interested.
What I find disturbing in today's political landscape is the notions that the Arts are for elitists and elitists are Liberals and the message from there is that Liberals are latte sipping snobs that aren't patriotic enough to have a say in the direction of our country.

I've found that people who claim "artist" as their profession seem to be no more than good self-promoters and BS artists. That's all the modern art world is about anymore, marketing. True artists, people with actual artistic ability, tend to work in TV, films, video games, comic books, print design, architecture, etc. Either that or they have a real job and just doodle in their free time.

I agree that art, gallery art, in its current form is pretty useless, but that's because true art has moved out of the gallery. Think about it. Would you watch a movie with horrible cinematography and bad special effects? Would you buy an ugly car? Would you buy a video game that looked like ass and played like shiat? Would buy a house with a bad floorplan? Would you keep going to a poorly designed website?

/okay scratch that last one
//I'll get over it

Suicidal Writer:There is no need to bemoan the dwindling appreciation for art and fiction. They aren't relevant to the lives of most people.

That's precisely the fact that they're bemoaning. Or are you just afraid that if more people become current in art and philosophy you won't feel like such an elitist?

It hopes to inspire those who have got out of the habit of reading decent books, cannot keep conversation flowing at dinner parties cannot keep conversation flowing at dinner parties

Sounds like dinner parties out of some 1930s movie.

mikaloyd: Mr. Vicarious: Also, rap doesn't turn people into killers. They do that all by themselves.

Instead it glorifies murder.

Which is fine.

No, some rap glorifies murder, not all. Just like some movies glorify murder, while others are great works of art. Not to mention all the movies that manage to both glorify murder and have artistic merit.

brap: Christ on a spitoon, someone offers a freaking low-cost self-improvement class and Herodotus feels the need to pull out a soap box and solo on his butt-trumpet.

This may blow your minds but people have been known to take classes based on their interests. Perhaps making coil pots, writing short stories, or selling real estate tickles your fancy. The world's your oyster!

But please don't let me stand between you and braying like an ass about the importance of the sciences vs. the liberal arts.

I would kiss you if I could.

Suicidal Writer: I'm not advocating ignorance, but there is a cultural baseline that one need not go beyond if one has no desire to. The fine arts just don't speak to a lot of people.

But the problem is most standard education isn't reaching a baseline. Reading Romeo and Juliet in a high school class, walking through one art museum on a junior high field trip and sitting through one music appreciation class is probably not going to offer people appropriate exposure to the "fine arts" -- especially not when they're theoretically more mature, i.e. in college. Ideally art/older culture/music/whatever should be presented as integrated into other studies; alternate methods of learning could be assisted by cross-exposure to other supplemental elements being developed at the time. Art and music are related to sciences -- math, physics, architecture, medicine -- and it seems half-assed to not integrate teaching of fine arts into science studies.

Suicidal Writer:
The equivalent would be a bunch of engineers, mathematicians, and scientists starting a university so people could become farking literate in those fields. Ignorance of science is actually problematic. The arts are a luxury.

Community colleges are the closest equivalent of what you are describing. You want to learn how to fix your car? Or how about fixing one's computer so you do not have to call the "Geek Squad"?

I disagree on the arts being a luxury on the grounds that mankind's desire to make things aesthetically pleasing and the enjoyment of anything pleasing is innate.

mikaloyd: Mr. Vicarious: Also, rap doesn't turn people into killers. They do that all by themselves.

Instead it glorifies murder.

Which is fine.

Ever watch a war movie?

Oh but that's okay, because they're wearing a different color uniform.

mikaloyd Women are not built like Igloos.

That off-the-cuff metaphor, JUST HAPPENS TO BE MY WIFE!

Cheap education offered by competent individuals?

Regardless of the scope, I'd have to say I'm for this one.

Suicidal Writer: Our contemporary society can be understood via the social sciences.

If "to understand" means to be able to predict future behavior, especially as it relates to different inputs and stimuli, then you are badly wrong. Any social courses taken because of these beliefs and lacking any unbiased result tracking and feedback will end in, as ever, nothing short of counterproductive societal disasters.

Good intentions, your stepping stones to hell.

xalres: mikaloyd: Mr. Vicarious: Also, rap doesn't turn people into killers. They do that all by themselves.

Instead it glorifies murder.

Which is fine.

Ever watch a war movie?

Oh but that's okay, because they're wearing a different color uniform.

Oh and guess what else old popular tome glorifies murder?
Gonna go watch Apocalyps Now.
/joking
you make a valid point.