Most teachers would applaud a "slightly" more humane approach, but one that actually keeps the kids under control. The current system of suspensions is like a vacation to the kids.

Kinky

I am SO turned on right now...

If she'll settle for slightly older "students" she could get paid big bucks for that.

Some people pay good money for that kind of action!

eqtworld: That article took forever to get to the point, and made hardly any point at all when it tried.

agreed, first it lists the horrors people like my parents endured at school and then "sighs wistfully" for kids who knew such fear.

The behavioral problems in school today can be traced directly to the banning of corporal punishment.
Not even debatable. I was in school when the ban went into effect, and the change was almost immediate.
There are certainly other factors, but this one is the biggest.

This guy took it to a whole different level, though.

I'd like to sign up to be one of these teachers/principles.

/would beat my female students with a rubber-coated hose

ah yes, back in the day when student teacher sex was more kinky

WHEN I WAS A BOY (mid 60's).... I went to St. Madeline's in Ridley Park, Pa. My second grade teacher, a fiery red head, used to make us (those of us caught talkng) kneel upright on the linoleum at the back of the room, with our hands folded. She would then walk between us, shouting at us and slapping the sides of our heads. I ended up in the hospital twice that year, getting my eardrum cut to drain it. Good times...

/still enjoy a stiff crack of the ol' riding crop
//on the horse, to get 'em to jump over walls while foxhunting
///what were you thinking?

I still say 'Kill one and the others will fall in line' is the best approach to school discipline.

Pacfanweb: The behavioral problems in school today can be traced directly to the banning of corporal punishment.
Not even debatable. I was in school when the ban went into effect, and the change was almost immediate.
There are certainly other factors, but this one is the biggest.

This guy took it to a whole different level, though.

I was in elementary school when this change of policy was just starting to take place in rural North Carolina. I remember I got in trouble a couple of times, and the principal got out a wooden paddle, and used it!

I'm not sure this approach would work with today's youth. It only seems likely to be of use if the parents use corporal as well (which isn't that common today). In this day and age, if teachers/principals attempted to use corporal punishment, they're likely to be putting themselves in great danger. It's a different world today, and 'kids' are a lot more dangerous. It's hard to use something like corporal punishment when the one you're attempting to use it on has absolutely no respect or fear of you.

Well, here goes my Saturday...

Pacfanweb: The behavioral problems in school today can be traced directly to the banning of corporal punishment.
Not even debatable.

O RLY?

damageddude: Kinky

Pacfanweb: The behavioral problems in school today can be traced directly to the banning of corporal punishment.
Not even debatable.

I'd debate that.

Corporal punishment was just suppressing the bad behaviors that are the product of poorly planned (or more often, totally unplanned) familial and educational environments. Corporal punishment wasn't solving the problem, it was hiding it. Kicking the snot out of little kids should not pass for education, and will not solve the problems of today's schools. It is possible to produce disciplined children without beating them.

bearsfolks: Most teachers would applaud a "slightly" more humane approach, but one that actually keeps the kids under control. The current system of suspensions is like a vacation to the kids.

That and many parents don't give a f*ck about discipline either. There's a problem? Obviously it's the school or teacher's fault, not their little angel's...

F*ck off. Get your little pi$$ant brat under control. STFU and be a parent.

I was afraid of my teachers telling my parents I was f*cking off or some such statement. I wasn't going to get the "well you're teacher failed you!" defense. No, my a$$ would've been tanned right quick by a studded, leather biker belt.

Half Star: I'd debate that.

And very well, I might add.

Wow, that's not my Business teacher in the article?

/Seriously, she told us this year she wish she could smack 5 kids a day.
//And of course, if WE said anything like that, she'd tell us that that statement was "inappropriate."
///How I hated Mrs. Motyka.

I paddle my kid's ass, but I wouldn't want just any old teacher doing it. The problem isn't the lack of corporal punishment in schools, it's the lack of any real punishment anywhere, ever. Bunch of entitled little turds running around.

Moonfisher: it's the lack of any real punishment anywhere

What do you mean by "real punishment"?

GIS for "Librarian Dominatrix"

Cythraul: Pacfanweb: The behavioral problems in school today can be traced directly to the banning of corporal punishment.
Not even debatable. I was in school when the ban went into effect, and the change was almost immediate.
There are certainly other factors, but this one is the biggest.

This guy took it to a whole different level, though.

I was in elementary school when this change of policy was just starting to take place in rural North Carolina. I remember I got in trouble a couple of times, and the principal got out a wooden paddle, and used it!

I'm not sure this approach would work with today's youth. It only seems likely to be of use if the parents use corporal as well (which isn't that common today). In this day and age, if teachers/principals attempted to use corporal punishment, they're likely to be putting themselves in great danger. It's a different world today, and 'kids' are a lot more dangerous. It's hard to use something like corporal punishment when the one you're attempting to use it on has absolutely no respect or fear of you.

And why do the kids have no fear? No corporal punishment! I don't care how tough some kid is, if he thinks he's going to get his ass beat if he steps out of line, he's far less likely to step out of line.

Though if your point is that kids in high school who misbehave are a lost cause, you're probably right. But that's what decimation is for.

I wonder how many people think their company's productivity would improve if managers were allowed to use corporal punishment to correct employees' behavior. Caught browsing Fark at work? - That's a caning.

CaptainSmartass:

And why do the kids have no fear? No corporal punishment! I don't care how tough some kid is, if he thinks he's going to get his ass beat if he steps out of line, he's far less likely to step out of line.


You ever hear of these things called "gangs?"

CaptainSmartass: I don't care how tough some kid is, if he thinks he's going to get his ass beat if he steps out of line, he's far less likely to step out of line when you're looking.


FTFY

Also, (s)he's more likely to perpetrate violence against their peers. They see violence as a way to solve problems, so when they have a problem with someone, they are more likely to solve it through violence.

?

Half Star: Pacfanweb: The behavioral problems in school today can be traced directly to the banning of corporal punishment.
Not even debatable.

I'd debate that.

Corporal punishment was just suppressing the bad behaviors that are the product of poorly planned (or more often, totally unplanned) familial and educational environments. Corporal punishment wasn't solving the problem, it was hiding it. Kicking the snot out of little kids should not pass for education, and will not solve the problems of today's schools. It is possible to produce disciplined children without beating them.

Even if you're right, and I'm debating whether you are or not, that corporal punishment was make-up on a pig, you have to remember that school is a place for children to learn. If one or more children are acting up and preventing others from learning, there's a problem. If corporal punishment keeps those kids quiet so everyone else can learn, then it's been successful in its stated objective.

I think you assume that schools are supposed to turn out model citizens, in which case your argument has some merit. But that's the parents' responsibility, not the school's.

CaptainSmartass: then it's been successful in its stated objective.

I don't think your implied objective is a good one because it ignores the needs of the offending student. Why were they misbehaving? Most likely boredom or disinterest. If that's the case, they weren't alone and you have a bigger problem than one kid.

Moonfisher: I paddle my kid's ass, but I wouldn't want just any old teacher doing it.

Because it's ok for you to keep your crotch fruit in line but teachers should have to sit there while they act like morons.

There's always two or three kids in my classes each year that I humbly believe would benefit from an ass whoppin.

bottom line is that the worst behaved kids are defended by their worthless parents. "Well, what did you do to him to make him act that way?' that kind of crap.

I say that we just show the incorrigibles the door with instructions to not let it hit them in the ass on the way out. It's not like they're there to learn anyway.

/knows a rotten kid when he sees one.

AnnoyingKidNextDoor: CaptainSmartass:

And why do the kids have no fear? No corporal punishment! I don't care how tough some kid is, if he thinks he's going to get his ass beat if he steps out of line, he's far less likely to step out of line.

You ever hear of these things called "gangs?"

I think I mentioned high schoolers and lost causes, and facetiously suggested decimation for them. Gang kids who don't want to respect teachers and principals should probably be sent to a military-academy type school, which uses far more draconian measures than your average public school. Also, since gang kids seem to want to belong to a group more than anything else, they'd be perfect for a military academy, and might end up making fine soldiers and officers in the future.

Again, if the goal of schooling is to educate, and certain kids are interfering with that, then you ensure that those kids can't, using the resources available.

John Dewey: CaptainSmartass: I don't care how tough some kid is, if he thinks he's going to get his ass beat if he steps out of line, he's far less likely to step out of line when you're looking.

FTFY

Also, (s)he's more likely to perpetrate violence against their peers. They see violence as a way to solve problems, so when they have a problem with someone, they are more likely to solve it through violence.

Your argument follows common sense, but I don't think it's accurate. I don't have the studies to prove it, but school violence seems to have gone up since corporal punishment was removed. My dad once told me, when I was dealing with bullies in jr. high and high school in the 80's, that when he was in school in the 50's no one would ever think of starting fights until after the last bell rung. And never on school property. Because no one wanted to get paddled. But I had to deal with assholes starting fights with me in the hallways (until I won a few, then they found someone else to pick on). I know the plural of "anecdote" is not "data", but this is why I feel corporal punishment is effective in keeping kids quiet and respectful in school.

CaptainSmartass: Cythraul: Pacfanweb: The behavioral problems in school today can be traced directly to the banning of corporal punishment.
Not even debatable. I was in school when the ban went into effect, and the change was almost immediate.
There are certainly other factors, but this one is the biggest.

This guy took it to a whole different level, though.

I was in elementary school when this change of policy was just starting to take place in rural North Carolina. I remember I got in trouble a couple of times, and the principal got out a wooden paddle, and used it!

I'm not sure this approach would work with today's youth. It only seems likely to be of use if the parents use corporal as well (which isn't that common today). In this day and age, if teachers/principals attempted to use corporal punishment, they're likely to be putting themselves in great danger. It's a different world today, and 'kids' are a lot more dangerous. It's hard to use something like corporal punishment when the one you're attempting to use it on has absolutely no respect or fear of you.

And why do the kids have no fear? No corporal punishment! I don't care how tough some kid is, if he thinks he's going to get his ass beat if he steps out of line, he's far less likely to step out of line.

Though if your point is that kids in high school who misbehave are a lost cause, you're probably right. But that's what decimation is for.

My point is, if a teacher/principal were to use corporal punishment on the wrong student, he could very well find himself staring down the barrel of a gun the next day.

Also, if I were a parent, I would sparingly use corporal punishment (I wouldn't ban it all together), but I wouldn't want some stranger beating my kid at school. With the ridiculousness of authority abuse at schools going on these days, I'd never trust a teacher to use corporal punishment on my child. God knows that can quickly cross the line from being discipline to abuse. And I'm NOT going to trust teacher John P. McSchool to tell the difference.

How could the flogger of urchins be otherwise than animated and joyous!

/It's just a quote. I don't think IC was a good teacher, and I really know nothing about Washington Irving's personal proclivities.

CaptainSmartass: I don't have the studies to prove it, but school violence seems to have gone up since corporal punishment was removed

Causation /= correlation. I would argue the rise in school violence stems from two basic things:

1. Lack of interest in school.
2. Economic situation of students.

You are correct in that the goal is to make schools a place where students do not want to perpetrate violence. But I don't think your solution is ideal. I'd rather decrease violence by making schools places where students are respected citizens who have valued input in the day to day operation of it.

Cubic Zirconium Jim Brady: /knows a rotten kid when he sees one.

Good thing you were born one of the "good" people.

John Dewey: Causation /= correlation. I would argue the rise in school violence stems from two three basic things:

1. Lack of interest in school.
2. Economic situation of students.
3. Lack of knowledge/experience on how to handle situations without violence

I remember my early school days in a village in England, where about 100 kids attended the elementary school. Every morning we had assembly in the biggest room, and that's where the corporal punishment happened - in front of the entire school, from the wee ones in the front rows to the bigger children in the back.

There was a kid named Craig who had his pants taken down and his bare bum smacked by the principal in front of us. It certainly made an impression on me, since I can still remember it three decades later. Wouldn't say I'd support any return to such practices, but I agree with some other farkers here that the "time-out" system just doesn't work on some kids.

I have a baby daughter and I'm crossing my fingers that The Voice and Look of Death will work on her.

/why yes, I am old
//lawn, etc...

The discipline at my school is nonexistent and the kids know the principals are toothless. Their parents acted like asses 18 years ago when they were in high school and now the teenage progeny acts even worse. No sense of responsibility, discipline, or self-control. I sound bitter because these kids make up 80% of my students and there is little one can do when you have no support from either the administration or parents. I know my ass bore bruises from kindergarten through 6th grade when corporal punishment was banned.

I've half-joked we should have an assembly the first day of school, pick one of the usual suspects by lottery, and just let teachers beat that person to an unconscious pulp on stage in front of everyone as a warning. I like to think of it as the scholastic version of hanging pirates in your harbor as a warning to others who may dare.

John Dewey: CaptainSmartass: I don't have the studies to prove it, but school violence seems to have gone up since corporal punishment was removed

Causation /= correlation. I would argue the rise in school violence stems from two basic things:

1. Lack of interest in school.
2. Economic situation of students.

You are correct in that the goal is to make schools a place where students do not want to perpetrate violence. But I don't think your solution is ideal. I'd rather decrease violence by making schools places where students are respected citizens who have valued input in the day to day operation of it.

Well, good luck with the last one.

Not that I don't agree, but with the number of power freaks in classrooms and on school boards, the student's opinion means very little.

Another point I'd like to raise is that if a kid comes from a home where violence occurs often, having it in school really won't impact him/er, and may only make the situation worse.

I'm no educational psychologist, but there are enough outdated classroom and teaching styles in place already. Let's move on to the 21st century.

Schools now seem a lot more like prisons than they did in my day (late 70s). But then, we'd never even imagined someone bringing a gun to class.

Like any animal, humans learn how to behave with respect to others by getting feedback.
A system of rewards and punishments will accomplish that.
The troublemakers are the ones who don't get sufficient feedback.

Smelma_Kayak: I remember my early school days in a village in England, where about 100 kids attended the elementary school. Every morning we had assembly in the biggest room, and that's where the corporal punishment happened - in front of the entire school, from the wee ones in the front rows to the bigger children in the back.

There was a kid named Craig who had his pants taken down and his bare bum smacked by the principal in front of us. It certainly made an impression on me, since I can still remember it three decades later. Wouldn't say I'd support any return to such practices, but I agree with some other farkers here that the "time-out" system just doesn't work on some kids.

I have a baby daughter and I'm crossing my fingers that The Voice and Look of Death will work on her.

/why yes, I am old
//lawn, etc...

crieger, then the administrators and some teachers need to be replaced. Those kids need to answer to somebody. At my high school, both the Principal (a retired Coast Guard/Navy officer) and the Vice Principal were able to keep tight control over the school, and were still universally respected. Why? Because while they could be friendly with the kids, they also were strict and didn't play favorites when it came to discipline.

Not that the school wasn't perfect, but those two made the school run very well.

I was paddled by my kindergarten teacher because I tied my shoelaces together. She said I would die in a fire because I wouldn't be able to run out of the building.

Decades later, the idea of my shoes being tied together freaks me out...

Half Star: Pacfanweb: The behavioral problems in school today can be traced directly to the banning of corporal punishment.
Not even debatable.

I'd debate that.

Corporal punishment was just suppressing the bad behaviors that are the product of poorly planned (or more often, totally unplanned) familial and educational environments. Corporal punishment wasn't solving the problem, it was hiding it. Kicking the snot out of little kids should not pass for education, and will not solve the problems of today's schools. It is possible to produce disciplined children without beating them.


Nominated.

+1 to you sir/madam.

Half Star: I'd debate that.

Corporal punishment was just suppressing the bad behaviors that are the product of poorly planned (or more often, totally unplanned) familial and educational environments. Corporal punishment wasn't solving the problem, it was hiding it. Kicking the snot out of little kids should not pass for education, and will not solve the problems of today's schools. It is possible to produce disciplined children without beating them.

So you're saying that by teaching children that certain behavior is unacceptable and should be suppressed, regardless of how they think or feel, corporal punishment is a failure? Gee, here I thought schools were in part supposed to teach kids how to act in adult society...

/Corporal punishment is not by default abuse.
//The only way some kids learn is by a hard swat on the backside.

AnnoyingKidNextDoor: CaptainSmartass:

And why do the kids have no fear? No corporal punishment! I don't care how tough some kid is, if he thinks he's going to get his ass beat if he steps out of line, he's far less likely to step out of line.


You ever hear of these things called "gangs?"


Gangs keep their members in line with threats of time-outs and quiet-time.

AnnoyingKidNextDoor:
Agreed. I've worked with very effective administrators in the past. This district has an incompetent superintendent who only hires neutered lapdogs as her principals. The problem comes from the top down and isn't looking good for improvement until they retire 10 years from now. And get this district to QUIT HIRING THEIR OWN GRADUATES!

Still doesn't address parents who think their spawn is golden. Some of these kids are actually proud of their own ignorance and wallow in in like a pig wallows in it own shiat. Get rid of the focus of sending everyone to college and get them into some trade program ASAP. Better for their futures and a better use for my tax dollars.

Pacfanweb: The behavioral problems in school today can be traced directly to the banning of corporal punishment.
Not even debatable. I was in school when the ban went into effect, and the change was almost immediate.
There are certainly other factors, but this one is the biggest.

This guy took it to a whole different level, though.

There's also Brown V. the Board of Education.