My two favorite quotes:

"You have recently accepted a new job in the general counsel's office of teh State of Utopia's new governor, Arnold Whatzanager. Not only does the job entail substantial responsibilities, but you are a big fan on the former movie-star, and have seen all of his movies multiple times. This week, the governor has asked you to examine a couple of very sensitive political issues."

"I know a quiz seems a bit demeaning, but everyone needs motivation once in a while."

I was told there would be no exams.

Looks like unremarkable stuff to me.

bronyaur1: Looks like unremarkable stuff to me.

pretty much what i expected. i'm sure the right wing blog machine will spin some pretty remarkable straw men out of it though.

B..b..but HE WASN'T A PROFESSOR!! HE LIED!!

/am I the only one who remembers that particular cheesecake-fueled bit of Hillary desperation?

Sweet. I'm going to print these out and sell them to freshmen.

By all accounts, he was a very competent and effective instructor. What's the big deal?

JerseyTim: Sweet. I'm going to print these out and sell them to freshmen. First year law students.

FIFY

Who cares?

bronyaur1: By all accounts, he was a very competent and effective instructor. What's the big deal?

Did you read the exams? Advocating affirmative action is a little frightening to me...

Just looking at all these complex issues from Barack Obama's past makes me wonder why the hell I should care.

About_20_Ninjas: bronyaur1: By all accounts, he was a very competent and effective instructor. What's the big deal?

Did you read the exams? Advocating affirmative action is a little frightening to me...

I am not a fan of it, but it is hardly unusual at a top law school.

Good luck and have a fine Holiday

He hates Christmas

bronyaur1: I am not a fan of it, but it is hardly unusual at a top law school.

Or scary.

Affirmative action in its modern form has been part of law school classroom discussions for about fifty years. I feel a lot better about its implementation being in the hands of the guy who tells black fathers to man up than I would in those of a white-guilt-driven type such as John Edwards.

JerseyTim: Or scary.

Maybe not scary, but certainly one of the most poorly implemented institutions. I understand the goal of it, but how often does affirmative action really help the underpriveledged? Hardly ever. Instead, it helps well-off minorities with admissions to medical schools, and screws over equally qualified people.

Before fark jumps down my throat, I'm not saying minorities should be last in line behind white people in America. I'm saying that university admissions should be based on merit, not race. Furthermore, how does graduate school admissions help out underpriveledged inner city minorities which oftentimes don't even bother with undergrad?

If I wanted to go back to that school, I'd pay someone other than Drew money to torture me. Thanks, subby. U of C is the primary reason I wasn't originally a supporter of Obama.

About_20_Ninjas: 'm not saying minorities should be last in line behind white people in America. I'm saying that university admissions should be based on merit, not race.

Bingo. Obama himself once said, "My daughter's shouldn't get special treatment".

A lot of us in the academic community think affirmative action should be based on poverty, not race. You would STILL help all the poor black and Hispanic students, but not at the expense of the poor white and Asian students.

Also, the ugly, ugly side of affirmative action is that students who ARE minorities are assumed to be there SOLELY because they are black/brown/red. This not only leads to tension, it makes the student himself wonder if he really deserves to be there.

Which one of his exams has this stuff on AA?

what_now: About_20_Ninjas: 'm not saying minorities should be last in line behind white people in America. I'm saying that university admissions should be based on merit, not race.

Bingo. Obama himself once said, "My daughter's shouldn't get special treatment".

A lot of us in the academic community think affirmative action should be based on poverty, not race. You would STILL help all the poor black and Hispanic students, but not at the expense of the poor white and Asian students.

Also, the ugly, ugly side of affirmative action is that students who ARE minorities are assumed to be there SOLELY because they are black/brown/red. This not only leads to tension, it makes the student himself wonder if he really deserves to be there.

As a McCain supporter, I'd really like to see where that quote came from. Don't go out of your way to find it, but if you know a general place off the top of your head, please share - I'll go look it up myself :)

Also, I had never heard of anyone suggesting affirmative action helping people based on poverty level, but it seems to me that I could get behind that idea.

KaponoFor3: Which one of his exams has this stuff on AA?

2003, second question.

About_20_Ninjas: Maybe not scary, but certainly one of the most poorly implemented institutions. I understand the goal of it, but how often does affirmative action really help the underpriveledged? Hardly ever. Instead, it helps well-off minorities with admissions to medical schools, and screws over equally qualified people.

Before fark jumps down my throat, I'm not saying minorities should be last in line behind white people in America. I'm saying that university admissions should be based on merit, not race. Furthermore, how does graduate school admissions help out underpriveledged inner city minorities which oftentimes don't even bother with undergrad?

One question:

Do you know how affirmative action actually works?

About_20_Ninjas: JerseyTim: Or scary.

Maybe not scary, but certainly one of the most poorly implemented institutions. I understand the goal of it, but how often does affirmative action really help the underpriveledged? Hardly ever. Instead, it helps well-off minorities with admissions to medical schools, and screws over equally qualified people.

Before fark jumps down my throat, I'm not saying minorities should be last in line behind white people in America. I'm saying that university admissions should be based on merit, not race. Furthermore, how does graduate school admissions help out underpriveledged inner city minorities which oftentimes don't even bother with undergrad?

As a law student, you better believe that if you become a lawyer you need to know AA, because you can make a lot of money off suits regarding it.

Obdicut: One question:

Do you know how affirmative action actually works?

Supposedly its going to ensure that poverty is bred-out five or six generations down the line. However, since the students benefiting from it are already generally above the poverty line, it isn't doing much to counter the reproduction rate of people below the poverty line who will likely never take advantage of affirmative action.

He doesn't advocate Affirmative Action, though, does he? He has an exam in a constitutional law class, and one of the questions is about Affirmative Action. If he had a question about a murder trial would he be advocating violence?

About_20_Ninjas: Supposedly its going to ensure that poverty is bred-out five or six generations down the line. However, since the students benefiting from it are already generally above the poverty line, it isn't doing much to counter the reproduction rate of people below the poverty line who will likely never take advantage of affirmative action.

No, that's not what I asked.

How does affirmative action actually work in, say, hiring a new janitor to fill a position?

About_20_Ninjas: I'd really like to see where that quote came from



The girls "should probably be treated by any admissions officer as folks who are pretty advantaged," Obama said.

About_20_Ninjas:
Also, I had never heard of anyone suggesting affirmative action helping people based on poverty level, but it seems to me that I could get behind that idea.

Well...you don't work in higher ed now, do you?? :)

Obdicut: About_20_Ninjas: Supposedly its going to ensure that poverty is bred-out five or six generations down the line. However, since the students benefiting from it are already generally above the poverty line, it isn't doing much to counter the reproduction rate of people below the poverty line who will likely never take advantage of affirmative action.

No, that's not what I asked.

How does affirmative action actually work in, say, hiring a new janitor to fill a position?

Given two equally qualified candidates, the company will choose the minority.

Alternatively, give two slightly inequal candidates, the company will choose the minority.

what_now: About_20_Ninjas: I'd really like to see where that quote came from



The girls "should probably be treated by any admissions officer as folks who are pretty advantaged," Obama said.

what_now: About_20_Ninjas:
Also, I had never heard of anyone suggesting affirmative action helping people based on poverty level, but it seems to me that I could get behind that idea.

Well...you don't work in higher ed now, do you?? :)

Well, +1 respect points to Obama then. Too bad it doesn't change his stance on the Iraq war, health care, energy, or any number of other issues.

And no, I don't work in higher ed, but I do like the idea. Where do I sign?

About_20_Ninjas: Given two equally qualified candidates, the company will choose the minority.

Alternatively, give two slightly inequal candidates, the company will choose the minority.

The first part is true. The second part is not, to the best of my knowledge. Can you provide an example?

You previously said:

Before fark jumps down my throat, I'm not saying minorities should be last in line behind white people in America. I'm saying that university admissions should be based on merit, not race. Furthermore, how does graduate school admissions help out underpriveledged inner city minorities which oftentimes don't even bother with undergrad?

Given that every study done shows that, given equal backgrounds, whites will be preferentially hired over blacks at a huge ratio, what is your solution for fixing that? And please note that this is socio-economic background independent?

Obdicut: About_20_Ninjas: Given two equally qualified candidates, the company will choose the minority.

Alternatively, give two slightly inequal candidates, the company will choose the minority.

The first part is true. The second part is not, to the best of my knowledge. Can you provide an example?

You previously said:

Before fark jumps down my throat, I'm not saying minorities should be last in line behind white people in America. I'm saying that university admissions should be based on merit, not race. Furthermore, how does graduate school admissions help out underpriveledged inner city minorities which oftentimes don't even bother with undergrad?

Given that every study done shows that, given equal backgrounds, whites will be preferentially hired over blacks at a huge ratio, what is your solution for fixing that? And please note that this is socio-economic background independent?

I can't provide an example in employment. However, my brother had a horrible time getting accepted to med school despite being a 4.0 student in college and having amazing MCAT scores. He's a white male.

As far as my solution to fixing the problem, I'm not a politician. I don't have answers. I just know when a system is broken.

About_20_Ninjas: And no, I don't work in higher ed, but I do like the idea. Where do I sign?

You have to wait for a politician to actually sponsor it first, and sadly, it has to be a black or hispanic politician, because they are they only ones who won't be accused of "Racism!"

About_20_Ninjas: I can't provide an example in employment. However, my brother had a horrible time getting accepted to med school despite being a 4.0 student in college and having amazing MCAT scores. He's a white male.

No, sorry, I meant a policy example, not an anecdote.

As far as my solution to fixing the problem, I'm not a politician. I don't have answers. I just know when a system is broken.

So you know that the system of hiring is broken, given that equally qualified white and black candidates result in whites being hired at a vastly greater rate than blacks?

About_20_Ninjas: Did you read the exams? Advocating affirmative action is a little frightening to me...

I hate AA too, but to be fair the exam was about the legal arguments for or against, not pushing a particular point of view.

A lot of people think that AA disadvantages whites in college admissions. It actually doesn't. It's actually Asians who get royally screwed over, because the spots that are given to black and hispanic candidates are taken from Asian spots.

You've got no basis for blaming Affirmative Action for your brother having "a hard time" getting into med school. If he's been to med school, he can explain the scientific problems with that kind of reasoning.

Also, I'd love it if you pointed out exactly where Obama advocated Affirmative Action.

bronyaur1: Looks like unremarkable stuff to me.

you missed the one where he admitted he's a secret muslim

FireZs
A lot of people think that AA disadvantages whites in college admissions. It actually doesn't. It's actually Asians who get royally screwed over, because the spots that are given to black and hispanic candidates are taken from Asian spots.

Some time ago I recall reading about a person in admissions at a major western college (UCLA, I think) explain that if they didn't consider race in their admissions, their incoming class would be mostly Asian.

patrick767: Some time ago I recall reading about a person in admissions at a major western college (UCLA, I think) explain that if they didn't consider race in their admissions, their incoming class would be mostly Asian.

Right, and there's "no way they're going to let that many goddamn asians in." Unfarkingbelievable.

patrick767: Some time ago I recall reading about a person in admissions at a major western college (UCLA, I think) explain that if they didn't consider race in their admissions, their incoming class would be mostly Asian.

Great idea. You can fit more of them in one classroom, they don't complain, and can actually understand what the TA is saying!

mmmmmmmm profits......

Fox News: "Obama releases college exam grading criteria... is Obama a _grammer NAZI?

clgrin: Fox News: "Obama releases college exam grading criteria... is Obama a grammer NAZI?

That wouldn't work too well given all of the typos in his tests.

Subby: +1 +2

The, er, "initial comment" from TFA rates highly on the "Oh snap!"-meter:

Very interesting subject.

In fairness, shouldn't you also examine some of McCain's student papers from the Naval Academy? They should prove equally challenging ... it's my understanding that at least two classmates finished with a lower rank than his.

- Posted by Paul R

Yeah, he went there.

And I lol'd.

This is why affirmative action is still race-based:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3495/is_2_48/ai_97873146 (pops)

To test whether employers might discriminate against job applicants with black-sounding names, associate professors of economics Marianne Bertrand with Chicago's Graduate School of Business and Sendhil Mullainathan with MIT conducted an elaborate experiment. They fabricated resumes for multiple "phantom" job seekers with common black and white names. The professors then sent out nearly 5,000 resumes for 1,300 job openings advertised in newspapers and on online job sites throughout Chicago and Boston.

The results are a bit disturbing, the researchers admit. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be contacted for job interviews than those with typical black names. There were no significant differences between the rates at which men and women were contacted.

In before WHARRGARBL.

alybaba: This is why affirmative action is still race-based:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3495/is_2_48/ai_97873146 (pops)

To test whether employers might discriminate against job applicants with black-sounding names, associate professors of economics Marianne Bertrand with Chicago's Graduate School of Business and Sendhil Mullainathan with MIT conducted an elaborate experiment. They fabricated resumes for multiple "phantom" job seekers with common black and white names. The professors then sent out nearly 5,000 resumes for 1,300 job openings advertised in newspapers and on online job sites throughout Chicago and Boston.

The results are a bit disturbing, the researchers admit. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be contacted for job interviews than those with typical black names. There were no significant differences between the rates at which men and women were contacted.

So it should be extended to Asians as well, right? Why isn't it then?

FTA
"He tells students what he wants and interrogates them on what they have learned"





Things never Change



"There are different ways of doing it. It's like swimming, freestyle, backstroke. The waterboarding could be used almost to define some of the techniques that our trainees are put through..." Senator Kit Bonds (R-MO)

I don't see anything wrong; I'm in a political science class and I've had test questions about controversial things like affirmative action.