Because we keep blocking him out?

There's no rhythm at all. He's just banging on things. Only thing complicated about it is that he does it really fast.

Sure... hands that shake really fast. I'd hire him to churn butter or prepare my yoohoo, but the drum solos were practically annoying.

Razorwolf: There's no rhythm at all.

Que? It doesn't have to be in straight 4/4 time to have rhythm. Buddy Rich was one of the greatest drummers ever and one of the great jazz musicians of the 20th century.

Why must we ALWAYS need to remind you young 'uns about Buddy Rich ?

Apparently because you remind us, then forget you reminded us, so remind us again, maybe it's an age thing.

.... because he can't do this:
Link - Tommy Lee

Nabb1: Que? It doesn't have to be in straight 4/4 time to have rhythm. Buddy Rich was one of the greatest drummers ever and one of the great jazz musicians of the 20th century.

Agreed on the musicianship. In case Razorwolf doesn't understand the art of drumming, that was some pretty technical stuff played in an admirable manner.

Having said that, Buddy Rich was a true piece of shiat as a human.

code_monkey: Nabb1: Que? It doesn't have to be in straight 4/4 time to have rhythm. Buddy Rich was one of the greatest drummers ever and one of the great jazz musicians of the 20th century.

Agreed on the musicianship. In case Razorwolf doesn't understand the art of drumming, that was some pretty technical stuff played in an admirable manner.

Having said that, Buddy Rich was a true piece of shiat as a human.

Oh no I get drumming just fine. Rhythm percussion. That's just banging on things really fast. Sometimes he crosses his arms while banging on things really fast. It doesn't even look choreographed. Only way I could even see a basis of comparison for ranking talent is by speed. How do you know if he went off his preparations?

Razorwolf: Oh no I get drumming just fine.

Then shouldn't you have an understanding that a jazz drum solo is decidedly different than a rock, R&B, funk, etc. drum solo?

I respectfully suggest you check out some of his other work, especially stuff where he isn't "banging on things really fast". You might learn appreciate his level of technical expertise. Seriously, he influenced contemporary drumming more than you might be prepared to admit.

Either way, he was still a gaping asshole though.

No.1: .... because he can't do this:
Link - Tommy Lee

....ummmm... I think Tommy Lee stole that from Buddy Rich (new window).

Neal Pert FTW.

Currently in the drummers anonymous program, with only a snare and a triangle.

PeArt. Dammit.

Jow Sithm: No.1: .... because he can't do this:
Link - Tommy Lee

....ummmm... I think Tommy Lee stole that from Buddy Rich (new window).

I stand corrected. But he still didn't tell the crowd to F-off.

No.1: I stand corrected. But he still didn't tell the crowd to F-off.

No, he did that to his band most every night on the tour bus, and aggressively so. Plus, he was a black belt and an alleged coke freak.

Jow Sithm: No.1: .... because he can't do this:
Link - Tommy Lee

....ummmm... I think Tommy Lee stole that from Buddy Rich (new window).

Oh, so the spinning around thing was the feat in question? I thought it was the attempt to say "Tacoma" as much as possible in a pandering way and narrate every little movement for the audience, sort of like the friend who tells you a joke and then explains it and elbows you in the ribs and says, "Get it?"

No, I'm not taking anything away from Tommy as a drummer. It just would have been better if he'd kept his mouth shut.

As far as other drummers go, it maddens me that I can't find any performance video of Pierre Moerlen (of Gong) online.

code_monkey: Razorwolf: Oh no I get drumming just fine.

Then shouldn't you have an understanding that a jazz drum solo is decidedly different than a rock, R&B, funk, etc. drum solo?

I respectfully suggest you check out some of his other work, especially stuff where he isn't "banging on things really fast". You might learn appreciate his level of technical expertise. Seriously, he influenced contemporary drumming more than you might be prepared to admit.

Either way, he was still a gaping asshole though.

Oh no I am aware of this. I followed a few related links after watching the video. Lots of great stuff. The first video is absolutely no display of capability. So don't worry, I "learn appreciate".

Razorwolf: So don't worry, I "learn appreciate".

Well spotted, but you still know little to nothing about drumming except from a spectators position.

Razorwolf: It doesn't even look choreographed

That's because he pulled it out of his ass on the spot. It's called improvisation. A major concept in jazz. Which makes it all the more impressive.

/Loves drums
//Loves Buddy Rich (a MASTER at subtlety (As well as flash))
///Hates drum solos without any groove. (Or any groovless solo on any instrument)

Everyone has missed the boat here. The real reason that Buddy Rich is a badass is he did it with only an efficiency kit. The rest of these guys need 30 tom-toms, 60 cymbals, and a myriad of cowbells to get the job done.

code_monkey: Razorwolf: So don't worry, I "learn appreciate".

Well spotted, but you still know little to nothing about drumming except from a spectators position.

That's why they do it. If he didn't have spectators, he'd get a new gig. I don't think he'd have been very happy with an audience of nothing but other drummers who were just there to admire his technique. If laymen can't see the efforts, you fail.

I saw lots of great stuff involving Buddy Rich. These "solos" just aren't it.

Elvin Jones was 10 times better Jazz drummer than Rich.


....not an asshole either.

Razorwolf: Because we keep blocking him out?

There's no rhythm at all. He's just banging on things. Only thing complicated about it is that he does it really fast.


oh my god---you have no idea what you're talking about.

watch and learn, children.


/also look up Chick Webb

Razorwolf is obviously clueless and most certainly a non-musician. (nothing wrong with not being a musician--just stfu)

Buddy Rich was good.
Really good.
That clip shows it no doubt.
I just resent him as always being regarded by most as "the best" ever.

Elvin Jones had a much more profound impact on Jazz and percussion.
I think Louie Belson was also one of the greatest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjOrJLnmJyA

The main reason Buddy Rich is so highly regarded is because of his frequent appearances on the Tonight Show.

Heh heh. Music snobs. That's probably not a rare breed either.

Razorwolf: Heh heh. Music snobs. That's probably not a rare breed either.

Hah, I just realized: you are a music troll! Someone who picks someone very highly regarded by his peers and dismisses them outright with vague statements disregarding the fact that other great drummers think he's amazing. You have been overruled.

Let us know when you have a tribute concert to you.

There's a great bit in rock promoter Bill Graham's autobiography about his days running and booking talent for the Fillmore theatres in SF and NY:
His biggest pet peeve were rock bands that insisted on a 10-minute drum solo in every performance. So, one night he decides to drop the hammer on the band Ten Years After and books Buddy Rich as the opening act. After Rich brings down the house with an EPIC solo, he turns to the Ten Years After drummer and says, "Can hardly wait to hear YOUR solo tonight motherfarker!!" Graham then cackles that "the poor guy looked like he was going to shiat himself"

SoapyD: Everyone has missed the boat here. The real reason that Buddy Rich is a badass is he did it with only an efficiency kit. The rest of these guys need 30 tom-toms, 60 cymbals, and a myriad of cowbells to get the job done.

One thing Buddy said that has always stuck with me is that if you can't make 5 drums sound good and interesting, then you're not a good drummer.

/Can't remember the exact quote

PC LOAD LETTER: Razorwolf: Heh heh. Music snobs. That's probably not a rare breed either.

Hah, I just realized: you are a music troll! Someone who picks someone very highly regarded by his peers and dismisses them outright with vague statements disregarding the fact that other great drummers think he's amazing. You have been overruled.

Let us know when you have a tribute concert to you.

Ok, yeah, truth is I do love stirring up snobs, but music is still what it is: An entertainment industry based on the taste and appreciation of the common general audience. I personally would not pay 33 million for a Van Gogh that looks like my baby cousin painted it. Others will. Saying that I don't know anything about art because of it is ridiculous. I just don't appreciate what's so great about THIS art.

Same goes here. If you approach an avid death metal fan, one who has never listened to anything else, and asked him who the greatest drummer of all time was, he would probably come at you with some guy in a croaky garage band that has probably nicknamed himself the underworld messenger or something.

If you have to be an expert on the subject matter in order to appreciate it, then you've got a very small audience.

I also never dismissed him outright. Plus, the replies are equally vague. I say, "He's a great drummer, but these solos are just noise to me" and they come back with, "You know nothing of music." Which one of us is being vague again? I lost the cue cards.

No.1: .... because he can't do this: Link - Tommy Lee

Don't bring Tommy Lee into a discussion about good drumming; he may be a great showman but he's a pretty lame drummer.

/Bonham, Moon, Mitchell, Shrieve, Peart, Cobham, Bruford

Ummm... I'm 24 and I love Buddy Rich, so fark off, oldsters.

/I keed.

I think this is a good time to post this old thing. It was one of my few greenlights:

Buddy and Ed Shaughnessy on the Tonight Show (new window)

Buddy Rich would own Joey Jordinson, Neil Pert, Bonham, Jizmak De Gusha, Danny Carey, any of em.. That guy was inhuman.. the end of that solo where he's playing ON THE INSIDE RIM OF THE SNARE!!! are you kidding me???!

Well sure, anything is easy when you have a Roy Clark big note songbook!

craigdamage: Elvin Jones was 10 times better Jazz drummer than Rich.

im gonna have to say no on this.

craigdamage: Elvin Jones had a much more profound impact on Jazz and percussion.

he was great,no doubt. but his profound impact had way more to do with that guy he played with who got real famous.

craigdamage: I think Louie Belson was also one of the greatest.

definitely.

craigdamage: The main reason Buddy Rich is so highly regarded is because of his frequent appearances on the Tonight Show.

no, its because he really was one of the greatest of all time. regardless of his tour bus shenanigans. do you have a grudge against him because you have a beard(obscure?).

Razorwolf: If you have to be an expert on the subject matter in order to appreciate it, then you've got a very small audience.

you dont have to be an 'expert', just 'have SOME basic understanding of what youre talking about'. is that too much to ask?

Buddy Rich could take 1 snare and 1 high hat and nothing else and completely own the joint on a 12 minute solo.

Despite his demons, you gotta give credit where it's due. This man was the penultimate percussionist.

Secret Agent X23, you were looking for online video with Pierre Moerlen...

Oldfield:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=moerlen+oldfield

Brand X:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query="brand+x"+tokyo+1997

Considering a number of the best drummers alive today, to include Neil Peart, consider him one of if not THE best, I'd say that their opinions have more weight than a bunch of Farkers. But hey, what do they know that we don't right?

Despite his demons, you gotta give credit where it's due. This man was the penultimate percussionist.

Why do I have to give him credit for being the second-to-last percussionist?

chickyraptor: Despite his demons, you gotta give credit where it's due. This man was the penultimate percussionist.
Why do I have to give him credit for being the second-to-last percussionist?

Because no one beats Ringo Starr. I mean, come on...

Razorwolf is clearly unhappy with his life and has to belittle others to make himself feel superior.

That said, No.1: Tommy Lee at best an average rock drummer.

Years ago I went to a drum clinic taught by Billy Cobham. The clinic focused on using small kits and incorporating rudiments and elementary chops - he makes Tommy Lee's solos sound like a bridge collapsing.

IMO Tower of Power's David Garibaldi is the best Funk drummer around.

Closed at 7 second mark when he hit the mic with his stick. Amateur.

Razorwolf: Because we keep blocking him out?

There's no rhythm at all. He's just banging on things. Only thing complicated about it is that he does it really fast.

Sure... hands that shake really fast. I'd hire him to churn butter or prepare my yoohoo, but the drum solos were practically annoying.

Youre a farking idiot.

He's no Travis Barker.

/sarcasm off

craigdamage:
The main reason Buddy Rich is so highly regarded is because of his frequent appearances on the Tonight Show.

It also helped that he was white

/also why Dave Brubeck was the first jazz musician on the cover of Time

What, no love for one of the greatest showdowns in the history of televised drum solos? I speak, naturally, of none other than the epic Buddy Rich vs. Animal battle. (p)

Psychopusher: What, no love for one of the greatest showdowns in the history of televised drum solos? I speak, naturally, of none other than the epic Buddy Rich vs. Animal battle. (p)

Bah, never mind. Saw that it was linked in an earlier article.

Still epic.

Oh yeah, great! Uncoordinated lummox bashed the mic boom right out the gate.

Like I said--Buddy Rich was truly great.

Elvin Jones however was far more sublime and creative I think.

Jones is considered the first drummer to play poly-rhythms and still "swing" with it. Other drummers sounded too robotic with poly-rhythms.

Jones inspires the way drummers THINK as well as play.
No doubt Jones owes much of his recognition to Coltrane but c'mon---what are you gonna say next?:
"John Bonham was ONLY great because of Zeppelin"????

Elvin was GREAT with and or without Coltrane. (so was Tyner)

Hell--there is NO real argument here.

I am just really pleased there is a jazz drummer discussion on FARK. All the cats mentioned so far are great to me.

My boss sometimes plays drums in a jazz band. His Buddy Rich story: He drove three hours to watch Buddy Rich at a show in Chicago. He showed up an hour early only to find that Buddy had already gotten in a fight with another guy in the band and hauled off to parts unknown. It was "a long trip back" as he put it.

SoapyD: Everyone has missed the boat here. The real reason that Buddy Rich is a badass is he did it with only an efficiency kit. The rest of these guys need 30 tom-toms, 60 cymbals, and a myriad of cowbells to get the job done.

This was what I noticed immediately. He is playing what looks like a beginner's drum set, and it sounds like he is playing an immense kit.

/not a drummer
/really likes good drummers

Desmo: Razorwolf is clearly unhappy with his life and has to belittle others to make himself feel superior.

I said he was a great drummer. Several times actually. Although, I did get a lot of bites from these apparently belittling unhappy people right in the thread.

I just don't understand these solos. At one point in his cymbal ceremony near the end there he even looks like he's completely pissed off and is just smashing everything he can reach. At other times he was pulling off things that I would defy anyone to imitate. However, I would not put it all together and call it a masterpiece of a demo.