Electrocuting my buddy won't cure a rattlesnake bite? Darn. I wish I'd seen this story ten minutes ago.

I'm sure he got a nice buzz out of it though.

made sense at the time...

BITTEN HUNTER: "What did the doctor say?"

HUNTER'S FRIEND: "You're gonna die.

/DNRTFA

Sorry guys, jumper cables only work for spider bites. Duh...

FTA: "But we gave him CroFab and I can't believe how good well he did."

I'm going to be a grammar nazi, because I can't stand that a doctor would sound like this. I really hope it was the editing.

Sorry. Carry on.

http://www.wemjournal.org/wmsonline/?request=get-document&issn=1080-6032&volume= 012&issue=02&page=0111 (new window)

Sometimes it works sometimes not

this is a story older than the internets

CroFab - short for Crotalidae Polyvalent Immune Fab Ovine - said it has an adequate supply antidote to treat the approximately 7,000-8,000 snakebites each year.

But it's not cheap. One vial wholesales for $1,572, and some patients need up to 20 vials, which comes out to a bill of $31,440 for medication alone. In clinical trials, patients received an average of 12 vials

$1,572 x 12 vials = $1,864 x 7000/year = $132,048,000/year

Holy Crap!

unholycode76: CroFab - short for Crotalidae Polyvalent Immune Fab Ovine - said it has an adequate supply antidote to treat the approximately 7,000-8,000 snakebites each year.

But it's not cheap. One vial wholesales for $1,572, and some patients need up to 20 vials, which comes out to a bill of $31,440 for medication alone. In clinical trials, patients received an average of 12 vials

$1,572 x 12 vials = $1,864 x 7000/year = $132,048,000/year

Holy Crap!

Yeah, it sounds like a lot of money, but they probably spent one third to one half of that money on research, development and marketing... and it's probably really expensive to manufacture too.

As someone who was bitten twice in the last week I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

What a guy will do to avoid sucking another guy's flesh.

/yeah, I know that's an obsolete method

Reminds me of the time I was fishing with my cousin back in Louisiana. He went behind a tree to take a leak and the next thing I know he's stumbling out from behind the tree, screaming and holding both hands over his crotch.
"Damned water mocassin bit me on my dick," he he told me, "take my cel phone and call my doctor and he can tell us what to do."
I called the doctor and explained the situation.
"First thing you need to do," the doctor instructed, "is to make an incision on the head of your cousin's penis where the bite marks are. Then you have to suck out the poison."
I hung up the phone.
"What did the doctor say?" my cousin asked.
"He said you're gonna die, motherfarker."

gravyhand: Yeah, it sounds like a lot of money, but they probably spent one third to one half of that money on research, development and marketing, marketing, bribing the FDA, and more marketing... and it's probably really expensive to manufacture too.

FTFY

I didn't read the article...but something tells me that alcohol was involved? Yes?

Occam's Chainsaw

you always make me happy.

twigliot: you always make me happy.

Thx. I try. ^_^

You will not get burns from the semi battery. You will not even get shocked.

Diggin: You will not get burns from the semi battery. You will not even get shocked.

So...the doctor in the story is just making it up when he said "This guy ended up with third-degree electrical burns"?

Diggin: You will not get burns from the semi battery. You will not even get shocked.

Your destroying the myth, under Ideal conditions he could have felt a tingle.
Now if he slapped the cables together on the skin that would burn it.

Ok, I get all that. But where did the "third-degree electrical burns" come from?

Something is missing from the story.

mikaloyd: http://www.wemjournal.org/wmsonline/?request=get-document&issn=1080-6032&volume= 012&issue=02&page=0111 (new window)

Sometimes it works sometimes not

Umm, from the first paragraph of the article you linked:

"We concluded that the use of stun guns or other sources of high voltage, low amperage direct current electric shocks to treat venomous bites and stings is not supported by the literature."

So NO, it doesn't work. I'm guessing the people it "worked" for are like the people who were "cured" by leeching. You either get better or you die.

I think my favourite line FTFA is this:

"His buddy got the jumper cables and hooked him up to a giant battery for his semi, then fired up the engine. He probably had to put down his beer first to put the clamps on each side of the snake bite"

Sounds like a good Mythbusters episode.

I always carry a small flask,
in case of snake bite.
I also carry a small snake!

/nothing obscure

mikaloyd: http://www.wemjournal.org/wmsonline/?request=get-document&issn=1080-6032&volume= 012&issue=02&page=0111 (new window)

Sometimes it works sometimes not

Yeah, long before the advent of stun guns, there were tales of people using the high voltage from the coil of a car to successfully treat snakebite victims in remote regions of the Amazon.

bigfatdave: As someone who was bitten twice in the last week I'm getting a kick out of these replies reptiles.

Goofball_Jones: Diggin: You will not get burns from the semi battery. You will not even get shocked.

So...the doctor in the story is just making it up when he said "This guy ended up with third-degree electrical burns"?

He didn't get those burns from an electrical shock. Like walnuts55 said, "Now if he slapped the cables together on the skin that would burn it."

Jumper cables can also be used as a tie in a pinch...

/nuttin'

Pick: Sounds like a good Mythbusters episode.

I already feel sorry for Adam; unless, of course, they also have Kari do the venom sucking myth....

Pick Sounds like a good Mythbusters episode.

Let me be the first to volunteer to remove the venom from Kari...

Diggin: He didn't get those burns from an electrical shock.

He might have. If applied to broken skin, even 12 or 24 volts could cause damage. The voltage was probably applied directly to the wound.

FTFA: But for every true aspect of rattlers, there are also plenty of tall tales.

Absolutely. They can walk, for one thing. Some of them can fly. They understand adjustable mortgages and they can take over a plane.


/snakes on a motherf*cking plane!

gravyhand: Yeah, it sounds like a lot of money, but they probably spent one third to one half of that money on research, development and marketing... and it's probably really expensive to manufacture too.

It's not so much manufactured as gathered, hence the cost.

Toiletduck: The voltage was probably applied directly to the wound.

Voltage! Apply Directly To The Wound!
Voltage! Apply Directly To The Wound!
Voltage! Apply Directly To The Wound!

Diggin: You will not get burns from the semi battery. You will not even get shocked.

Came here to say that.

Also, TFA states it was a semi (which is diesel) and therefore doesn't even have an ignition system.

FAIL

Dr._Michael_Hfuhruhurr Also, TFA states it was a semi (which is diesel) and therefore doesn't even have an ignition system.

What??? Diesel just magically starts itself? The only stupid thing here is that the battery would provide the same current through the jumper cables were the engine fired or not. But it most certainly has batteries and an ignition system. In fact, for a diesel, they are just much larger batteries. And if it caused burns would only be a function of how close the cables were placed to eachother on the skin. They certainly may have been close enough to arc and burn. but nice try. -1 to you sir.

gravyhand:

Yeah, it sounds like a lot of money, but they probably spent one third to one half of that money on research, development and marketing... and it's probably really expensive to manufacture too.

Haha. Yeah, because there's no profit in pharmaceuticals. Yes they're expensive to make and market, but don't think these companies aren't making bank. And the people that commented on the marketing are right. Shouldn't be allowed.

myalias1845: Sorry guys, jumper cables only work for spider bites. Duh...


I had never heard of the snakebite thing, however; an RN said that mild electric shock for spider bites/bee stings, etc. did something to break down the toxins in the body. I haven't been bitten by anything to try that out, and honestly I think I would risk going to the ER first. On a side note regarding bee/wasp/hornet stings, anyone here with medical expertise know if the following works: unless the person is extremely allergic you can dab simple household bleach on the sting area and it neutralizes the venom. I have tried this once when a wasp stung me on the hand and other than the area getting a warm feeling from the bleach, the swelling appeared to go down and the pain subsided.

Toiletduck: Diggin: He didn't get those burns from an electrical shock.

He might have. If applied to broken skin, even 12 or 24 volts could cause damage. The voltage was probably applied directly to the wound.

No, it wouldn't. Do a test. Go out to your car with some saline solution in a pair of rags to enhance conductivity. Put each on the terminals on your car battery and grab hold. You'll experience a whopping nothing.

It's a myth. I'm sure the whole story is made up, a doctor that can't remember if he treated the patient or read it somewhere? That doesn't know about how wrong that nonsense is?

Please, it's fun to read, it's just not true.

Lampmonster


Haha. Yeah, because there's no profit in pharmaceuticals. Yes they're expensive to make and market, but don't think these companies aren't making bank. And the people that commented on the marketing are right. Shouldn't be allowed.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to make anti-venin? Do you know even know what anti-venin is? They make it by, literally, milking snakes of their venom and then taking the venom and treating it. A single snakebite does not produce a huge amount of venom. So, to produce those 7,000 vials they probably have workers working all year forcing snakes to bite specially-designed collection platters or something of the sort. It's definitely a hell of a lot harder than making, say, Tylenol.

/Sometimes a product is expensive because the production costs are high, not because the company likes ripping people off.

jomyke: Dr._Michael_Hfuhruhurr Also, TFA states it was a semi (which is diesel) and therefore doesn't even have an ignition system.

What??? Diesel just magically starts itself?


Diesels have a starting system. That is, a battery and starter motor. Diesels do not have in ignition system. Secondary or primary. No spark plugs, ignition coil etc. There is no high-voltage system in a diesel.

If it were a gas engine, you could hook-up one of the jumper cables to a spark plug wire, the other to vehicle ground and electrocute someone really good. 60,000 volts good.

A 12 or 24 volt battery isn't gonna do anything to you.

Bin_jammin: Toiletduck: Diggin: He didn't get those burns from an electrical shock.

He might have. If applied to broken skin, even 12 or 24 volts could cause damage. The voltage was probably applied directly to the wound.

No, it wouldn't. Do a test.

I said broken skin, not wet skin. I've already experienced a shock from a 12 volt battery through a cut on my hand, so I have no need to conduct any testing.

guesser

You speak the truth.

/two automotive degrees

guesser: some of you farker's are idiots

Says the apostrophe pluralizer.

Dr._Michael_Hfuhruhurr

Alrighty then. We're on the same page. But the article says jumper cables to "a giant battery." And you chimed in about no ignition system. I assumed, incorrectly, that you were trying to argue that there would not even be a battery.
Anyway, I doubt anyone in any of these stories was clever enough to do anything other than put cables directly on a battery (or at best ground to the frame and positive to the battery) if they did any such thing at all.
As for the result of this effort, I agree that cables from low voltage through skin isn't going to do much. But a hot arc between two cables placed extrememly near the skin....I still think that might leave a mark......?no?

log_jammin this is a story older than the internets

Yes. Yes it is:

Link (new window)

Would there not be a surge of voltage coming from the alternator when the engine was rev-ed? The connection of the jumper cables from the battery (probably directly on the battery cable clamps) to the victim would create a dead short. Am I wrong? Cuz that's not unusual. Me being wrong, that is.

Goofball_Jones: Diggin: You will not get burns from the semi battery. You will not even get shocked.

So...the doctor in the story is just making it up when he said "This guy ended up with third-degree electrical burns"?

Most likely. Even with a 24V system, you can't get a lot of current to flow, even through damp skin. Now, if you made some incisions and stuck the electrodes into wet subdermal meat, the impedance can drop to something like 1K. That's still only about half a Watt from 24V, not enough to cause thermal burns.

Measuring skin impedance is rough, though, because there are dozens of variables. However, it's generally fairly high, in the 10K -> 10M range for reasonable electrode areas.

Oh, and cranking the semi doesn't change squat, either.

As an aside, I've found that most MDs are totally lost when it comes to electronics, and many don't really have that firm a grasp on the technology they depend on, which is scary. You have to understand that they have no training at all in electronics, and generally only have up to Calculus I in math so they can do simple rate equations. In a lot of cases, the ones I've talked to have a hard time distinguishing current, voltage and resistance. Most can't tell you the difference between flow, resistance, and pressure either, on the hydraulics side, other than they know they're related somehow.

Ok, if you can use a carbon rod and car battery for welding, I really can't see why a car battery couldn't burn fleshiathought that the amps also played a role (Watt = Volt*Ampere) and car batteries have what, 45-100 amps?