I guess he could use the old "Hey at least it's not Florida or there be crazy stories about us everyday" routine.

They will now have to defend the renamed Bay of Government Cheese.

...and the fail continues, Fidel or no Fidel.

Well duh, now with Cuba seeming like it wants to host weapons from other countries there, the U.S. will embargo Cuba.

/wait a second...
//de ja vu
///don't know the keys to make pointy letter things

Love Boat: WHARRGARBL!!!

You got your wharrgarbl in early.

they want to host the olympics in 2020, right?

Times may not have been that great, but at least they can cure polio...

awww... what'sa matta? Upset that your doctors can't get the cure for polio because of a 50 year old trade imbargo against a country whose leader already passed away for something that another country that no longer exists, did?

To his credit, Raul has made good attempt at reforms. Cubans can finally own a microwave now.

That's not a joke. Microwaves were banned under Castro. Reheated foods are the instrument of proletarian oppression.

Z1P2
awww... what'sa matta? Upset that your doctors can't get the cure for polio because of a 50 year old trade imbargo against a country whose leader already passed away for something that another country that no longer exists, did?

Que?

Love Boat: Of course it has. It's every liberal's dream; a Workers' Paradise.

/just like they teach in college!

Didn't you just use this exact line in the North Korea thread? Even I don't mark Cuba as a paternal dictatorship in the same vein as North Korea. Sure, they're totalitarian, but calling them both the same would be to grossly underestimate the severity of Kim Jong-il's power complex.

But his 48-minute speech

Gracias a Dios!

With that Raul makes my top ten presidents of Cuba in the last half century.

Love Boat: Love Boat: Of course it has. It's every liberal's dream; a Workers' Paradise. /just like they teach in college!

Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: Didn't you just use this exact line in the North Korea thread? Even I don't mark Cuba as a paternal dictatorship in the same vein as North Korea. Sure, they're totalitarian, but calling them both the same would be to grossly underestimate the severity of Kim Jong-il's power complex.


They've both got one thing in common; they're every liberal's dream...

You might want to take a look at this.

Z1P2: Times may not have been that great, but at least they can cure polio...

awww... what'sa matta? Upset that your doctors can't get the cure for polio because of a 50 year old trade imbargo against a country whose leader already passed away for something that another country that no longer exists, did?

Cuba isn't polio-free because they discovered a cure. It's because they've had a nearly-100% vaccination rate for decades, using the same vaccines that are available everywhere else. The embargo has *nothing* to do with it, and there's no "polio cure" that Cuba could export even if there were no embargo.

Infant mortality rate in the USA:

total: 6.3 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 6.95 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 5.62 deaths/1,000 live births (2008 est.)

Infant mortality rate in cuba:

total: 5.93 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 6.64 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 5.17 deaths/1,000 live births (2008 est.)

Source: CIA World Factbook (tried to link directly but cia.gov seems to be blocked on fark)

Incidentally, it was a Swedish political science TA (at a COLLEGE- such a waste of time, I know) who had recently traveled to Cuba and brought this curious fact to the attention of our class when I was in it maybe three years ago. I hadn't thought to look it up until now; glad it checked out (+1 for academia!)
Now cue everyone who will explain to me why this is totally meaningless...

Collapse of the U.S. dollar he may be predicting.... yes.

Sline: Now cue everyone who will explain to me why this is totally meaningless...

Is the term single-party state sufficient?

Michael Moore gives a shiat...

farkwell: they want to host the olympics in 2020, right?

yep, they are in the running for the Olympics. Their plan is to restore democracy and end human rights violations to clear up the air two weeks before the start of the games and afterward go back to communism and jailing the political dissidents....

Sline: Infant mortality rate in the USA:

total: 6.3 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 6.95 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 5.62 deaths/1,000 live births (2008 est.)

Infant mortality rate in cuba:

total: 5.93 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 6.64 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 5.17 deaths/1,000 live births (2008 est.)

Source: CIA World Factbook (tried to link directly but cia.gov seems to be blocked on fark)

Incidentally, it was a Swedish political science TA (at a COLLEGE- such a waste of time, I know) who had recently traveled to Cuba and brought this curious fact to the attention of our class when I was in it maybe three years ago. I hadn't thought to look it up until now; glad it checked out (+1 for academia!)
Now cue everyone who will explain to me why this is totally meaningless...

I think this guy explains it pretty well
http://www.overpopulation.com/articles/2002/cuba-vs-the-united-states-on-infan t- mortality/ (new window)

Even so, Cuba's number is mighty impressive considering. They have some fine doctors there.

Love Boat: Sline, has Sweden determined the difference in incarceration rates for political prisoners yet?

/Gitmo is the finest prison on Cuban soil, by far.

And yet they still have a lower infant mortality rate. Interesting. Because, y'know, that's what he was talking about, and has farking nothing to do with the political oppression there.

The thing I don't get is, if Cuba is such a wonderful place, why aren't there boatloads of people trying to get there. Always seems that there are boatloads of people trying to get to the USA?

p51d007: The thing I don't get is, if Cuba is such a wonderful place, why aren't there boatloads of people trying to get there. Always seems that there are boatloads of people trying to get to the USA?

I don't think that Cuba is a great place. Politically, it's horrible. However, it's not some evil island of Spanish Nazis run by the lovechild of Stalin and Hitler that right-wingers tend to paint it as.

Well, since there are some shocks in the capital flow and food supplies currently working through the globalized system, its probably not a bad idea to give your citizens a "heads-up," no matter what country you run.

Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor
Is the term single-party state sufficient?

Uhhh, you're saying fascism = better health care? I'm sure there are a few contrary examples...

Love Boat

Sline, has Sweden determined the difference in incarceration rates for political prisoners yet?

/Gitmo is the finest prison on Cuban soil, by far.

Touche!

Wait so what does Swedes have to do with the price of dead babies in Cuba??

I'm not seeing how this is related to TFA. Oh wait I see, you read halfway into THE FOURTH WORD of the article, stopped reading, and went looking for data on how Cuba is better.

p51d007:

The thing I don't get is, if Cuba is such a wonderful place, why aren't there boatloads of people trying to get there. Always seems that there are boatloads of people trying to get to the USA?

Because it's been deemed illegal by both parties in the usual mirroring of failure of leadership on both sides. See history.

DNRFA -- Why Florida tag? I know there a lot of Cubans in Florida, but Floridian in cuba?

p51d007: The thing I don't get is, if Cuba is such a wonderful place, why aren't there boatloads of people trying to get there.



I think many in the U.S. government would claim that lots of people in the world are working their way to Cuba right now.

msimon8: Sline:
I think this guy explains it pretty well
http://www.overpopulation.com/articles/2002/cuba-vs-the-united-states-on-infant - mortality/ (new window)

Even so, Cuba's number is mighty impressive considering. They have some fine doctors there.

Pretty interesting article that brings up likely bookkeeping differences in how preemie deaths are recorded in Cuba vs. the U.S., but this sentence from the third paragraph has me puzzled:

"In any given year in the United States anywhere from 30-40 percent of infants die before they are even a day old."

Either a) I'm not reading that correctly, b) that's a chilling f'ing statistic, or c) the author is full of crap.

At least he's more honest about the global economic crisis and its effects than the U.S. President is being. That's got to count for something.

ScottRiqui:

Either a) I'm not reading that correctly, b) that's a chilling f'ing statistic, or c) the author is full of crap.

maybe they are considering miscarriage and abortions for that stat. but still even 30% seems a little high...

Love Boat: subby: it's been really great in Cuba up until now


Of course it has. It's every liberal's dream; a Workers' Paradise.

/just like they teach in college!

Woah. Somebody's got a case of Cuban Derangement Syndrome.

p51d007: The thing I don't get is, if Cuba is such a wonderful place, why aren't there boatloads of people trying to get there. Always seems that there are boatloads of people trying to get to the USA?

First off, it's not such a wonderful place. And second...it's not such a wonderful place.

2bits: ScottRiqui:

Either a) I'm not reading that correctly, b) that's a chilling f'ing statistic, or c) the author is full of crap.

maybe they are considering miscarriage and abortions for that stat. but still even 30% seems a little high...

Yea, I was about to offer that.

http://www.hopexchange.com/Statistics.htm (new window)

The statistics seem to support miscarriage rates as high as 40%. Doesn't the US fluoridate their water? Not saying that's connected, but the environmental and health standards in the US aren't exactly the best in the world.

I still don't get the liberalism = ZOMG TEH COMMUNISTS! meme. Is it just some old tired unfounded argument that the right has been spewing for years?

Seriously, give me one example proving that Obama wants to create the US into a bunch of commies.

History has shown us time and time again how much of a heap of fail Communism is in practice. I lean slightly to the left and know this. Having everyone get the same amount of monetary gain (or making everything the property of the state) just kills any incentive to work harder and continue innovation. Also, a more state-controlled populace breeds all sorts of corruption, further farking up the quality of life.

In terms of domestic policy, all I want is for the government to stay the fark out of my bedroom, and keep a balance between free market and preventing corporations from farking over the average citizen. Is that really too much to ask?

that_other_internet: 2bits: ScottRiqui:

Either a) I'm not reading that correctly, b) that's a chilling f'ing statistic, or c) the author is full of crap.

maybe they are considering miscarriage and abortions for that stat. but still even 30% seems a little high...

Yea, I was about to offer that.

http://www.hopexchange.com/Statistics.htm (new window)

The statistics seem to support miscarriage rates as high as 40%. Doesn't the US fluoridate their water? Not saying that's connected, but the environmental and health standards in the US aren't exactly the best in the world.

Might be it, but miscarriage rates don't (I think) affect infant mortality rates, which typically are rates of infant death from day 1 to first birthday.

msimon8: Even so, Cuba's number is mighty impressive considering. They have some fine doctors there.

This is a country that has concentration camps for HIV-positive people (new window). Obviously they take (public) health care seriously.

So what happens if you are a Cuban health care official and you report a few too many infant deaths?

You get sent to clean toilets at the resorts that the Canadians and Euros go to in Varadero.

Oops.

Crap.

That would be a pay increase. Never mind.

from the other article, not related in any way to the original article...
How does this skew the statistics? Because in the United States if an infant is born weighing only 400 grams and not breathing, a doctor will likely spend lot of time and money trying to revive that infant. If the infant does not survive - and the mortality rate for such infants is in excess of 50 percent - that sequence of events will be recorded as a live birth and then a death.

In many countries, however, (including many European countries) such severe medical intervention would not be attempted and, moreover, regardless of whether or not it was, this would be recorded as a fetal death rather than a live birth. That unfortunate infant would never show up in infant mortality statistics.

obviously if you wanted to pad you stats you could not provide all possible care to the infant and rule it a fetal death. So if that is the case I would rather have the higher infant death rate.

I liked the headline subby. Nicely done.

Remove all Republicans: Mouser: This is a country that has concentration camps for HIV-positive people (new window).

Wow, a 1988 article from the United State state department. You don't think there'd be a little bit of bias there. Hell, it'd be 3 years before we were hearing about babies being put in incinerators in Kuwait.

Face it, Cuba has proven that government-run healthcare is the only solution to advancing the human race.

I would agree that it may help improve quality of life, but it's not the silver bullet that will solve all of the world's problems. If a universal health care plan were to be implemented in the states, it needs to be done right.

To be honest, I really don't see anyone getting such a plan off the ground successfully when we have too many other budget problems that need to be dealt with first.

LoveBoat Of course it has. It's every liberal's dream; a Workers' Paradise.

Now, I'm no supporter of communism. It can only really work when everyone agrees it will work. Or, to put it another way, there can be absolutely no citizens/comrades that attempt to take advantage of the system. And this is where absolutely every communist/socialist/anarchist government has failed, when one person or group of people gains advantage over the average individual (or worse, when two groups gain such advantage).

This, of course, is the main selling point of capitalism - it essentially requires people to take advantage, or work to maximize one's personal gain without regard to the gains/losses of others. It's simply more robust.

On the other hand, I think it's simply phenomenal that Cuba has worked as well it has considering it has been subject to the longest lasting trade embargo in history. (well, at least modern history). I've always wondered what Cuba would look like today if it had the benefit of a normal trade relation with the rest of the world.

Mouser: msimon8: Even so, Cuba's number is mighty impressive considering. They have some fine doctors there.

This is a country that has concentration camps for HIV-positive people (new window). Obviously they take (public) health care seriously.

Not really doctors' fault though, is it?

Reading the actual article, looks like he said some common sense things.

Cuba shoots drug dealers, so that cuts down on babies that die from their mother's drug use.

Love Boat: Sline, has Sweden determined the difference in incarceration rates for political prisoners yet?

/Gitmo is the finest prison on Cuban soil, by far.

Technically, it is on American soil. Not only because any worldwide U.S. military base is de-facto on American soil, but also because Cuba ceded it to America.

cuba is a liberal's dream? LOL. try the netherlands maybe. cuba doesn't have ANY civil liberties hardly. liberal != communist. Propaganda...sigh...

I hear they have a nice health system though.

/this liberal's dream.