well, that's it then - we're offically a socialist nation now. And it took a Republican president to do it. Go figure.

Who the hell would give this a "-1"?

clancifer: Who the hell would give this a "-1"?

Some ass with a sub-prime loan who would otherwise find himself living in a van down by the river?

GoDeep:
Some ass with a sub-prime loan who would otherwise find himself living in a van down by the river?

Hahaha, this isn't supposed to help people with subprime loans or people in danger of foreclosure. Its supposed to help investment banks.

You know when the savings and loan scandal hit, no one lost their country club memberships, this time I want executives hanging in trees. Shiat in one hand, wish in the other.

Weaver95: we're offically a socialist nation now. And it took a Republican president to do it.

Still, we can forgive that and overlook it if necessary. This was entirely the work of the Libs as far as I'm concerned.

Oh, god farking damn it!!!

Where in the fark is the incentive to behave like a responsible person in our society???

If you take out loans you know you can't afford, and if you give loans you know you'll never get back, you can count on the Feds to steal from the responsible people to fix your fark-ups.

Way to reward failure, you farking ball-washers.

cruci fiction: this isn't supposed to help people with subprime loans or people in danger of foreclosure. Its supposed to help investment banks.

Huh? FTFA:

An estimated 400,000 homeowners would escape foreclosure by getting the chance to refinance into more affordable loans backed by the Federal Housing Administration.

Most foreclosures are on sub-prime loans. The measure would allow them to convert them to fixed loans, after writing down the value of the homes.

And yes, there's lots of free cheese for the banks and mortgage companies included, which only makes the deal suck more.

And the

cruci fiction: Hahaha, this isn't supposed to help people with subprime loans or people in danger of foreclosure. Its supposed to help investment banks.

That's not how it's being marketed to the sheep tho. they're being told that taxpayer funds will go to help the 'poor, disadvantaged' homeowners when in reality all this will do is help the greedy jerks who sold a bunch of bad loans. Now those dickwads get a bailout while the rest of us foot the bill and the Federal government buys half the damn housing market.

Great move guys. Why not just nationalize the oil companies while we're at it?

Sorry about the Sopranos ending in that last post.

SchlingFo: Oh, god farking damn it!!!

Where in the fark is the incentive to behave like a responsible person in our society???

If you take out loans you know you can't afford, and if you give loans you know you'll never get back, you can count on the Feds to steal from the responsible people to fix your fark-ups.

Way to reward failure, you farking ball-washers.

You said it better than I could.

Someone in the Fannie/Ferddie thread made a great comment:

Free Market in America: Socialize the risks, personalize the rewards.

SchlingFo: Oh, god farking damn it!!!

Where in the fark is the incentive to behave like a responsible person in our society???

If you take out loans you know you can't afford, and if you give loans you know you'll never get back, you can count on the Feds to steal from the responsible people to fix your fark-ups.

Way to reward failure, you farking ball-washers.

Amen.

Why do I have the feeling that the only people to get bailed out from this bill will be assholes like that California pol that's in default on 3 houses?

Do you think that Joe, down the street, is gonna get help?

This just angers me. Guess we have to print up even more money to pay for all this shiat.

If the kids in the US can't fail then why should the parents?

UNC_Samurai: Someone in the Fannie/Ferddie thread made a great comment:

Free Market in America: Socialize the risks, personalize the rewards.

I just wrote that one down. That's so deep I'm lost.

Weaver95: well, that's it then - we're offically a socialist nation now. And it took a Republican president to do it. Go figure.

Maybe, but I've been day-trading Fannie Mae for a couple of weeks and I for one still feel all capitalist-piggy.

real shaman: Do you think that Joe, down the street, is gonna get help?

Oh hell no. But his taxes will go up. So there's that.

Where's the bailout for the compulsive gamblers, alcoholics, drug addicts, sex fiends, and obese people?

Tr0mBoNe: Where's the bailout for the compulsive gamblers, alcoholics, drug addicts, sex fiends, and obese people?

Maybe if they donated lots and lots of money to key senate re-election campaigns, then they'd get a bailout as well.

I pay my farking rent on time every month. I pay my bills on time every month. Why the hell do these living pieces of crap get a free ride?

eddyatwork: I pay my farking rent on time every month. I pay my bills on time every month. Why the hell do these living pieces of crap get a free ride?

Because they gave a lot of legislators a lot of money. And the legislators reached into the public bank account and returned the favor. Hey - it's just taxpayer money. Not like it matters, right?

Between this and FISA I hardly have to wait until Christmas this year... I don't even care what it ends up costing me (which at my tax rate will be way more than most folks I see wailing now).

Can we get a "suck it" or a "non-story"... just for old times sake ?

oh... and thanks Democrats!

Better, still need more... but better.

This bill doesn't bail the people out, it provides insurance for the refinanced debt. The banks are taking the hit for the reduced principal, and only the least screwed by the bubble bust are invited to apply. Effectively the borrowers and lenders are admitting things got out of control and are negotiating a fix with help from the government.

Where was the outrage when the bubble was going on? All this talk about how this makes us Socialist is incredibly phony since it was deregulation of banking that led to this. Pretty much all the extremists got it wrong, just like they always do.

Anyone have the voting record for this bill. I need to go yell at my representatives.

Poor disadvantaged homeowners can kiss my middle class tax paying ass.

Generation_D: Poor disadvantaged homeowners can kiss my middle class tax paying ass.

And we're not even bailing out the rich folks on this one. we're bailing out the jumped up wannabes with no common sense. we're bailing out the people who got in over their heads, bought a second house and tried to live way beyond their means. We're also bailing out the people who saw what was coming, but didn't stop it because it made their balance sheets look good and, in the short term, they'd get a good sized christmas bonus check from their bosses.

This bill is a bad deal all around. It rewards people who farked up and punishes people who live within their means. Not only that, we're telling wall street that it's ok to do whatever the hell they want 'cause pappa government will pick up the check if they screw up.

All of the points I wanted to make have already been made in this thread alone -- to say nothing of the 97854327895342789573849589324 other similar threads in the past week -- so I'm just going to add:

You all know for a fact that, at a minimum, more than a handful of actuaries and risk analysts for the financial institutions saw a tipping point and capitalized on it. At some point, more than a few of them said "Hey, you know what? We're actually taking on quite a lot of risk here. But so is IndyMac, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Countrywide, WaMu, Wachovia ... there's *no way* the government will let us *all* go under! Mortgages away!"

floor9: WaMu

In related news, WaMu can suck it. They screwed up my checking account so bad last summer that I wound up stranded in the middle of bumfark nowhere (Breezewood, PA) with no access to my accounts, let alone my cash. Never did get an explanation. Neither did the PA Department of Banking. But in all fairness, WaMu was thoughtful enough to release my funds five months late.

Why the fark don't they give everyone affordable loans then?

And can someone tell me just why does the government have to get into flipping houses? There are already people that do that, so why would the Feds get in on it now?

What I find so amusing is that this administration's plan for social security is to put the money in the hands of the people, because they obviously know how to handle it themselves.

No doubt that this is for the lenders. The Roubini guy in the video of this previously-greened article (new window) seems to have it right on.

Basically, housing prices are going to go down from the peak by at least 25%. People would just walk away from many of these crappy mortgages unless they can get a sweet (government-backed) refinancing deal and the losses for the banks would be HUGE, closer to 50%.

With the refinancing, banks write off the 25% and so only lose that much while string the borrowers along for what they can get out of them.

deadapostle: What I find so amusing is that this administration's plan for social security is to put the money in the hands of the people, because they obviously know how to handle it themselves.

some of us actually DO know how to handle our own money. It isn't even all that difficult. It just takes time, patience and some homework. What's arrogant and wasteful (not to mention insulting) is the federal government automatically assuming that people are stupid cattle and making those sorts of decisions FOR us.

I don't have any money anyway, so I'm indifferent on this situation.

Mordant: This was entirely the work of the Libs as far as I'm concerned.

Hate to break your bubble, junior, but this is the work of the Congress, owned by the banking and real estate interests.

Republican and Democrat alike.

Until folks dispatch of career politicians, the 2 party system, and lack of transparency/oversight in gubmint, we can count on the same.

Me? I'm for revolution.

That or zombie invasion.

Either or...

FTFA:
Bush initially said the proposal was a burdensome bailout for irresponsible borrowers and lenders. But he dropped a threat to veto it this week after Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson argued that> he should STFU while big people are at the table.

Sorry, but the action is either socialist (sic) measures like this, or actually giving the masses have a reason to mobilize and start hanging your irresponsible, greedy asses from trees.

Weaver95: Great move guys. Why not just nationalize the oil companies while we're at it?

Only if you promise to take back the airline industry, too...

FTFA: He added, "Because of the Democratic Congress' delays

Just couldn't help yourself, could you, Sparky. You farking tool.

zobear: That or zombie invasion.

I didn't even realize this was on the table!! It's got my vote.

floor9: You all know for a fact that, at a minimum, more than a handful of actuaries and risk analysts for the financial institutions saw a tipping point and capitalized on it. At some point, more than a few of them said "Hey, you know what? We're actually taking on quite a lot of risk here. But so is IndyMac, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Countrywide, WaMu, Wachovia ... there's *no way* the government will let us *all* go under! Mortgages away!"

I can totally see this happening.

We allow individual businesses to get to such a size that their failure will cripple sectors of the economy, and they know they'll be bailed out if they fail.

So, they don't exercise any kind of fiscal responsibility.

We either need to stop letting companies grow to such a size, or we need to just let the economy take the hit and let the people suffer for their stupid choices.

Local news story on tv last night: A woman lost her house after getting two mortgages at once -to cover 100 percent of the home price. Of course the news singled out and blamed one of the loaners. I think that should only be the case if he gave her BOTH loans. which he didnt. the woman should be in prison for fraud.

/because stupid isn't illegal yet

There's two sides to this and both suck, in my humble opinion. On one side, yes, there definitely greedy mortgage brokers and lenders who took advantage of stupid people. But, he wonders cynically, is there honestly anyone SO STUPID that he or she really doesn't ounderstand that it's simply not possible to pay off a 400K loan with an $8/hr job? An eigth grade math student could sit down and figure that out in about three minutes.

So it gets passed on to us, the taxpayers, without anyone going to jail and that's not right, either. There's a whole list of very large mortgage companies who's representatives intentionally lent to people just to make a profit on the transactions. Flat out lied about peoples jobs and other financial aspects to make sure the loans went through and they got a percentage.

C'mon now, if the public has to pay for this bullshiat, then we want some scapegoats! Hunt down the #1 supoerstar 'mortgage closers' for the biggest companies and give them 20 years -- after selling everything they own and taking all the money back...

flucto: Maybe, but I've been day-trading Fannie Mae for a couple of weeks and I for one still feel all capitalist-piggy.

Yeah and when you fark up and lose your shirt, we're all going to pay the "risk" part of the risk/reward inverse proportion.

Um, hello? Energy prices have skyrocketed in the past few years due mostly to republican policies (Lowering interest rates and skyrocketing the debt).

How can poor homeowners afford their houses?

I think we need to repeat history.

Somebody please tell me that my math is faulty, and it's not really gonna cost an average of $1300 for every man, woman and child in the U. S.

GoDeep:
Some ass with a sub-prime loan who would otherwise find himself living in a van down by the river?


Be nice. Not everybody can afford a van down by the river.

Weaver95: well, that's it then - we're offically a socialist nation now. And it took a Republican president to do it. Go figure.

life is sweet irony.