He had more important things to do I'm sure.

He had more important things to do I'm sure.

Those more important things being arguing with the military as to why he was not ALLOWED to go, Dumb_Idiotic_Ass

big_pth: Dumb_Idiotic_Ass

That cuts deep

A guy like Biden would not think twice about visiting the hospital.

big_pth He had more important things to do I'm sure.

Those more important things being arguing with the military as to why he was not ALLOWED to go

Well..that's what the Obama machine says, so the military is obviously lying. Obama should really rake the military over the coals for that, fire some generals or something. Who needs a military anyway when your locked and loaded with high caliber awesome.

GaryPDX: Obama machine

That's some fine indepentin' there, Lou.

big_pth: He had more important things to do I'm sure.

Those more important things being arguing with the military as to why he was not ALLOWED to go, Dumb_Idiotic_Ass

Really? FTA:

"'The senator decided out of respect for these servicemen and women that it would be inappropriate to make a stop to visit troops at a U.S. military facility as part of a trip funded by the campaign,' explains spokesman Robert Gibbs."

Where are you getting that he wasn't allowed to go?

This is a misleading article and headline.

The Pentagon decided that Obama's visit was going to be a campaign visit, and there for inappropriate, not Obama.

"Senator Obama had hoped to and had every intention of visiting our troops to express his appreciation and gratitude for their service to our country," retired Air Force Major General Scott Gration, an Obama adviser, said in a statement.

"We learned from the Pentagon [Wednesday] night that the visit would be viewed instead as a campaign event. Senator Obama did not want to have a trip to see our wounded warriors percieved as a campaign event...and decided instead not to go."

And there was this from Andrea Mitchell about it on Morning Joe this morning:

JOE SCARBOROUGH: It's curious, if that's the case, why the campaign didn't make that announcement yesterday, and allowed stories to go like this. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of he said/she said in the days to come about this.

MITCHELL: But they thought that they couldn't win. Yeah. They thought that they were, you know, you know, no-win situation, that the Pentagon, perhaps the military with cooperation from some Republican operatives and, that's the sort of scuttlebutt, that there have been some foreign policy advisers of John McCain with connections in the Pentagon who had something to do with this.

In my mind it sounds like some civilian leaders in the Pentagon with connections to the McCain campaign are playing games with the military in order to attack Obama. If this is accurate it is both unconscionable and illegal.

big_pth: Those more important things being arguing with the military as to why he was not ALLOWED to go,


TFA: Assuming their rationale was on the level and not just cover to give the candidate a breather, the easier move may have been to still visit Rammstein and Landstuhl but keep the press behind.

Something like that would have caught the attention of someone like me who thinks that he has little respect for the military. I guess I'm just stuck with that impression.

Dumb_Idiotic_Ass

[Ernie Capadino]
Oooh...that hurt.
[/Ernie Capadino]

Dancin_In_Anson: TFA: Assuming their rationale was on the level and not just cover to give the candidate a breather, the easier move may have been to still visit Rammstein and Landstuhl but keep the press behind.

Something like that would have caught the attention of someone like me who thinks that he has little respect for the military. I guess I'm just stuck with that impression.

The original plan on Obama's schedule was a no press visit as Senator Obama, not a photo-op as presidential candidate Obama. It was the Pentagon's choice that this was going to be a campaign visit as candidate Obama. The article is misleading, and you are being fooled by it.

Dancin_In_Anson: Something like that would have caught the attention of someone like me who thinks that he has little respect for the military. I guess I'm just stuck with that impression.

So, holding an opinion despite facts to the contrary is a good thing now? I guess it should be easy for you guys, seeing as how you've been doing it for years now.

cameroncrazy1984: So, holding an opinion despite facts to the contrary is a good thing now?

Do tell.

Code_Archeologist: It was the Pentagon's choice that this was going to be a campaign visit as candidate Obama. The article is misleading, and you are being fooled by it.

I can't find anything more than blogs about it.

Oh... and for those people wondering why he didn't just show up and make the visit a campaign stop since the Pentagon was insisting that this is what it was going to be. There are Department of Defense rules which specifically prohibit political campaigning on military bases.

Just sometimes the military decides to "bend" the rules for a candidate by allowing them to visit in a non-campaign capacity. The Pentagon, despite the fact that the civilian press was told to stay home for the visit, decided that Obama's visit was going to be a political visit... even though it has allowed McCain the chance to give speeches at military bases through out the campaign.

cameroncrazy1984: Dancin_In_Anson: Something like that would have caught the attention of someone like me who thinks that he has little respect for the military. I guess I'm just stuck with that impression.

So, holding an opinion despite facts to the contrary is a good thing now? I guess it should be easy for you guys, seeing as how you've been doing it for years now.

Wow, is it just me or are the republicans running out of fodder?

Dancin_In_Anson: I can't find anything more than blogs about it.

Here is a video of Andrea Mitchell on Morning Joe talking about it.

and a transcript in case you are somewhere that doesn't have video.

ANDREA MITCHELL: The background on the military flap is that they [Obama campaign] had clearly planned a trip to Ramstein [AFB]. They were planning to visit the injured troops. And then the Pentagon explained that they couldn't go as part of a political trip. The Obama campaign thought that they could go, leave the press corps on the tarmac, and then take off with military escort and make this one last visit. As he did in Iraq, by the way. He visited a casualty unit in the Green Zone, without photographers, as part of the congressional delegation. But the military said that the rules are that he could only go as part of a previously-arranged congressional delegation, to Ramstein.

Clearly, people in the campaign are really angry. They had wanted this to be the final stop on the trip here in Germany, and to do it without the press corps, just to do it on his own. But the objections of the military are that he is now being staffed by campaign aides, not by his Senate staff, who are the people of course with him when he went with Hagel and Jack Reed in Iraq. So, you know, the anger here in the campaign is pretty intense at the Pentagon. They feel that the military are drawing some lines--they're not saying this publicly of course--but drawing lines that they might have drawn for other people. He was planning to just go by himself, not with cameras, not with any entourage, as he had done in Walter Reed in the past in Washington, as he did in Iraq. Joe.

JOE SCARBOROUGH: It's curious, if that's the case, why the campaign didn't make that announcement yesterday, and allowed stories to go like this. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of he said/she said in the days to come about this.

MITCHELL: But they thought that they couldn't win. Yeah. They thought that they were, you know, you know, no-win situation, that the Pentagon, perhaps the military with cooperation from some Republican operatives and, that's the sort of scuttlebutt, that there have been some foreign policy advisers of John McCain with connections in the Pentagon who had something to do with this. But that is, perhaps, just the normal political paranoia of the season.

Dancin_In_Anson: I can't find anything more than blogs about it.

Try looking a little harder, jackass. Read Code_Archaeologist's post above.

Code_Archeologist: Here is a video of Andrea Mitchell on Morning Joe talking about it.

Mitchell: But that is, perhaps, just the normal political paranoia of the season.

cameroncrazy1984: Try looking a little harder, jackass. Read Code_Archaeologist's post above

I did. Anything from the Pentagon on this?

Code_Archeologist: As he did in Iraq, by the way. He visited a casualty unit in the Green Zone, without photographers, as part of the congressional delegation

But but but DIA said he has a gut feeling that Obama hates the military and won't go visit them!

Come on.

Dancin_In_Anson: cameroncrazy1984: Try looking a little harder, jackass. Read Code_Archaeologist's post above

I did. Anything from the Pentagon on this?

Are you serious? Anything from Whithouse as well? Bush's farking dog? shiat, let's throw all the credible sources in there while we're at it.

Dancin_In_Anson: Mitchell: But that is, perhaps, just the normal political paranoia of the season.

That is a journalistic hedge since she can't get anybody on either side of the issue on the record. The Obama campaign is not commenting on this publicly, the Pentagon is not going to comment on this, and the McCain campaign has their fingers steepled cackling from the shadows.

But this situation begs the question of why Obama would be denied a visit to this military base in Germany (where he would have no civilian press and be making no photo-ops), when they allowed McCain to the Naval Academy and give his stump speech.

Anti_illuminati: Dancin_In_Anson: cameroncrazy1984: Try looking a little harder, jackass. Read Code_Archaeologist's post above

I did. Anything from the Pentagon on this?

Are you serious? Anything from Whithouse as well? Bush's farking dog? shiat, let's throw all the credible sources in there while we're at it.

Credible sources like pro-Obama bloggers and anonymous people on the internet?

Anti_illuminati: Are you serious?

Yes.

Code_Archeologist: That is a journalistic hedge since she can't get anybody on either side of the issue on the record.

Whgich takes us back to the quote in the headline.

Nabb1: Credible sources like pro-Obama bloggers and anonymous people on the internet?

Heh.

Nabb1: Credible sources like pro-Obama bloggers and anonymous people on the internet?

andrea mitchell is neither a pro-obama blogger or an anonymous person on the internet.

if you'll remember, she's the one a few days ago that accused obama of giving "fake interviews". she is not exactly a pro-obama source at all.

Code_Archeologist: That is a journalistic hedge since she can't get anybody on either side of the issue on the record.

I can buy that.

The Obama campaign is not commenting on this publicly, the Pentagon is not going to comment on this...

Yep, still following you there.

and the McCain campaign has their fingers steepled cackling from the shadows.

And that's where you lose me.

Code_Archeologist: The Obama campaign is not commenting on this publicly, the Pentagon is not going to comment on this

Why not? If I was Obama, I'd be raising hell.

Nabb1: and the McCain campaign has their fingers steepled cackling from the shadows.

And that's where you lose me.

would you believe, enjoying a tasty plate of warm pancakes with maple syrup?

Dancin_In_Anson: Code_Archeologist: The Obama campaign is not commenting on this publicly, the Pentagon is not going to comment on this

Why not? If I was Obama, I'd be raising hell.

And you would look like you were whining... they are caught in a no win situation. They are doing what is probably the best of a list of crappy options, planting a seed in the ear of the press and letting them go hunt down the facts of the matter.

Code_Archeologist: Nabb1: and the McCain campaign has their fingers steepled cackling from the shadows.

And that's where you lose me.

would you believe, enjoying a tasty plate of warm pancakes with maple syrup?

Come on, don't resort to the pancakes thing. I'd have thought it beneath you. In any case, I just doubt the McCain campaign is pulling any strings on this.

Code_Archeologist: And you would look like you were whining... they are caught in a no win situation.

I dunno. As I said earlier, his not visiting them catches my attention. If there was something verifiable that he was officially not allowed I would have a beef with the powers that made that decision. It's people like me that he needs to get to...

Nabb1: Code_Archeologist: Nabb1: and the McCain campaign has their fingers steepled cackling from the shadows.

And that's where you lose me.

would you believe, enjoying a tasty plate of warm pancakes with maple syrup?

Come on, don't resort to the pancakes thing. I'd have thought it beneath you. In any case, I just doubt the McCain campaign is pulling any strings on this.

meh... I was trying to make a bad joke. It may be that the McCain campaign had no active part in this. But it does at least seem like there are people within the Pentagon using a different set of rules for Obama and McCain.

Nabb1: Anti_illuminati: Dancin_In_Anson: cameroncrazy1984: Try looking a little harder, jackass. Read Code_Archaeologist's post above

I did. Anything from the Pentagon on this?

Are you serious? Anything from Whithouse as well? Bush's farking dog? shiat, let's throw all the credible sources in there while we're at it.

Credible sources like pro-Obama bloggers and anonymous people on the internet?

Well if he's just waiting for something from the pentagon only, I think there's a bit of a problem there.

Anti_illuminati: Well if he's just waiting for something from the pentagon only, I think there's a bit of a problem there.

Ok...how about something from Obama?

Nabb1: And that's where you lose me.

Well, I suppose it call all be just a big coincidence. I mean, it's completely possible that somewhere between McCain's speeches at Annapolis, and Obama's visit to wounded soldiers in Iraq, that there was an official change in policy that would explain the military suddenly getting concerned about Landstuhl.

That's possible, right?

Or were you hinting that it was the Bush administration in the shadows on this one.

Do explain.

Code_Archeologist: Nabb1: Code_Archeologist: Nabb1: and the McCain campaign has their fingers steepled cackling from the shadows.

It may be that the McCain campaign had no active part in this. But it does at least seem like there are people within the Pentagon using a different set of rules for Obama and McCain.

Well, I certainly agree that the Pentagon shouldn't be using a different set of rules for anyone.

Dancin_In_Anson: Ok...how about something from Obama?

2008-07-25 09:45:49 AM

Skleenar: That's possible, right?

Anything's possible.

Or were you hinting that it was the Bush administration in the shadows on this one.

Do explain.

I'm just not buying into a conspiracy theory at present. If evidence - not innuendo, suppositions, or, as Andrea Mitchell put it, "scuttlebutt" - supporting one comes up, I am not inflexible.

Skleenar: 2008-07-25 09:45:49 AM

Code_Archeologist: Senator Obama did not want to have a trip to see our wounded warriors percieved as a campaign event...and decided instead not to go."

So it was a conscious decision on the part of Obama not to go. Thanks for pointing that out.

Assuming their rationale was on the level and not just cover to give the candidate a breather, the easier move may have been to still visit Rammstein and Landstuhl but keep the press behind.

This is what he should have done.

vernonFL: Assuming their rationale was on the level and not just cover to give the candidate a breather, the easier move may have been to still visit Rammstein and Landstuhl but keep the press behind.

This is what he should have done.

Yeah, he missed a golden opportunity there. If he leaves the press behind and the campaign explains that he didn't want it to be misconstrued as a campaign event, the press will report that and that alone is probably better PR than any photo-op.

Of course, if it's paid for by campaign funds, that still poses the same problem. Hmm...

Dancin_In_Anson: So it was a conscious decision on the part of Obama not to go. Thanks for pointing that out.

Ah. Selective reading.

No wonder you are a GOP supporterFark independent.

Dancin_In_Anson: It's people like me that he needs to get to...

Horseshiat. People like you convinced yourself long ago that you would find a reason not to vote for him.

You have a gut feeling that he doesn't respect the military based on zero evidence, but it's enough of a "concern" to you that you biatch about it in a thread that he's not making an effort to reach out to the closed-minded and stubborn?

Get the fark over yourself.

cameroncrazy1984: But but but DIA said he has a gut feeling that Obama hates the military and won't go visit them!

Nestea Plunge: Dancin_in_Anson's gut feelings are gospel. He is the prognosticator of prognosticators, seer of seers, his gut feelings are legend!


He goes to a hospital in Iraq but not in Germany...both by design. Gotta call it like I see it.

That's really a no win situation for the Obama campaign. I mean, after McCain's campaigned biatched that he hadn't gone to Iraq so therefore he didn't care about the troops....then Obama goes and presto, "He's only going as a ploy for his campaign"

Same thing here, I'm sure once they got word that the Pentagon just might be perceiving this as a campaign stoop, they realized that maybe it'll be a bad idea. Now no matter what, they're screwed.

Helluva spin machine the GOP has going right now.

"He doesn't care about the troops because he's not visiting them!"

versus

"He doesn't care about the troops because he only visits them to stoop for his campaign, he's using them!"


So tell me, what does ANY of this, have to do with his ability to be President?

Oh right. Absofarkinlutely nothing.

Dancin_In_Anson: both by design

CITATION NEEDED

So, the Pentagon decides that it would be a campaign visit and they don't like campaigning on military bases, so Obama doesn't make the trip.

Obama gets railed on for not going to visit the troops.

It makes perfect sense.

Skleenar: Ah. Selective reading.

No, it is being intentionally obtuse in the face of reason and logic. That way, even when the answer makes sense, you can still make stupid statements.

Dancin_In_Anson: Anti_illuminati: Well if he's just waiting for something from the pentagon only, I think there's a bit of a problem there.

Ok...how about something from Obama?

How about something from everybody? Waiting for it to come out of the Capital of Denial for proof is not condusive to proper analysis.

Skleenar: Ah. Selective reading.

WTF? It was a quote from "retired Air Force Major General Scott Gration, an Obama adviser"

Sorry. Should I have not done that?

BKITU: Horseshiat. People like you convinced yourself long ago that you would find a reason not to vote for him.

Actually, I looking for a reason to vote peiod.