FTA: Obama received Secret Service protection on May 3, 2007 - the earliest the agency has ever stepped in to protect a candidate.

McCain picked up protection on April 27 of this year.

I'd think Obama can be blamed for more than half of that budget. They've had to protect him for an extra year and to more countries abroad.

Somebody was very, very nervous.

At the time, the Secret Service and Homeland Security officials said they were not aware of any threats to the senator.

We've heard this before but I tend to agree with them. The people that are angry about him are using the summer to train before they take him out on Inauguration Day.

Tr0mBoNe: I'd think Obama can be blamed for more than half of that budget. They've had to protect him for an extra year and to more countries abroad.


Yeah, but they gave him all the Secret Service agents who were brothas...

A+++ headline. Good jerb, subby.

Bob Barr doesn't need SS protection. The crazy guys with arsenals all support him already.

LOL +1.

MacEnvy: Bob Barr doesn't need SS protection. The crazy guys with arsenals all support him already.

I wouldn't count on it. At any libertarian meeting, they're too busy jerking each other off to the idea of a completely unregulated free market to pay attention to would-be assassins.

Cynthia McKinney comes armed with a purse and kung-fu grip.

I wouldn't count on it. At any libertarian meeting, they're too busy jerking each other off to the idea of a completely unregulated free market to pay attention to would-be assassins.

Hahahah, so true. Libertarians are so friggin' dumb to support a free market... which both Obama and McCain have said they do, as well.

Fail.

Bastiat's Last Disciple: I wouldn't count on it. At any libertarian meeting, they're too busy jerking each other off to the idea of a completely unregulated free market to pay attention to would-be assassins.

Hahahah, so true. Libertarians are so friggin' dumb to support a free market... which both Obama and McCain have said they do, as well.

Completely unregulated free market.

Bastiat's Last Disciple: Fail.

Yeah, yeah you did.

Bastiat's Last Disciple: I wouldn't count on it. At any libertarian meeting, they're too busy jerking each other off to the idea of a completely unregulated free market to pay attention to would-be assassins.

Hahahah, so true. Libertarians are so friggin' dumb to support a free market... which both Obama and McCain have said they do, as well.

Fail.

Wait till Libertarians become ill, their insurance turns them down for a life saving treatment or they are too ill to work and they lose their insurance. As they die they can think about all the times they said tax payers didn't deserve tax funded, health care. Now that's FAILURE. Libertarians are scum. Greedy, clueless scum.

Mija: Libertarians are scum. Greedy, clueless scum.

Stay classy Reps and Dems.

The fact that the Republicans and the Democrats both hate Libertarians further solidify my moderate libertarian positions.

sarcastrophe: The fact that the Republicans and the Democrats both hate Libertarians further solidify my moderate libertarian positions.

But you're a small l libertarian, right? There's a fundamental difference between small l libertarians (which I semi-self-identify as) and big L members of the Libertarian Party.

I already suspected higher costs considering transportation costs of people, equipment ect.

What a failure it would be for the SS if a presidential candidate was assassinated in this day and age.

/tapped tapped tapped, "can you hear me now?"

Occam's Chainsaw: But you're a small l libertarian, right? There's a fundamental difference between small l libertarians (which I semi-self-identify as) and big L members of the Libertarian Party.

Yeah. The Libertarian Party, in the past 20 years or so have been a bunch of nuts. But still, the fact that the Rs and Ds hate them so much is still a glowing endorsement in my opinion.

sarcastrophe: Yeah. The Libertarian Party, in the past 20 years or so have been a bunch of nuts. But still, the fact that the Rs and Ds hate them so much is still a glowing endorsement in my opinion.

I'm sure the D's and R's, by and large, aren't huge fans of Hezbollah. I doubt I'll be signing up for either group any time soon.

/Terrorist organization Godwin variant?

krusader3z: I already suspected higher costs considering transportation costs of people, equipment ect.

What a failure it would be for the SS the citizenry if a presidential candidate was assassinated in this day and age.

/tapped tapped tapped, "can you hear me now?"

FTFY.

If a candidate or the sitting president were to get injured or killed? Say hello PATRIOT Act III.

Occam's Chainsaw: I'm sure the D's and R's, by and large, aren't huge fans of Hezbollah. I doubt I'll be signing up for either group any time soon.

/Terrorist organization Godwin variant?

Any organization that wants the US government out of their personal/national business will get my sympathy, even if they are terrorists. I don't think Hezbollah necessarily qualifies. I want the US government out of my personal business, and I'm a friggin' citizen. Imagine being a non-citizen. What options do you really have?

/hello government agents
//am I on the watchlist yet?

It's almost time for the government to label the ACLU as a terrorist organization. I donate to them, too.

sarcastrophe: Any organization that wants the US government out of their personal/national business will get my sympathy, even if they are terrorists. I don't think Hezbollah necessarily qualifies. I want the US government out of my personal business, and I'm a friggin' citizen. Imagine being a non-citizen. What options do you really have?

/hello government agents
//am I on the watchlist yet?

Agreed, and see that last part? That's why America the idea is dying. You say it in jest, but we both know that it's only the barest ghost of a joke. There are real people whose rights are really being violated, who are on those secret lists. And all because they hold a political or social view that doesn't jive with the status quo. Or because they're too vocal in their dissent. Or because their name is similar to an alias of someone else that may or may not be a terrorist. Or for no discernable reason whatsoever. We joke about it, but it's a farking travesty. And the worst part? Joke is all we can do, because the second we even discuss anything more concrete, we potentially expose ourselves to serious repercussions. Look at those jokers in Florida. Those idiots couldnt've blown their noses, let alone blown up a building. They talked some smack, and as a result, they're in Federal PMITA prison. I'm 26 years old, and even I can say that the America we live in today is a pale shade of the America I grew up in.

/Was surprised I wasn't on the UFIA / no-fly list last time I flew
//Probably am now that I said that.

Well, I know when they are in the states they have a few agents like 5 or 6 who travel with them all the time. The rest of them are local agents who are on the clock at all times anyway.

Occam's Chainsaw: Agreed, and see that last part? That's why America the idea is dying.

And yet people continue to vote for Ds and Rs. I'll never understand why.

sarcastrophe: Occam's Chainsaw: Agreed, and see that last part? That's why America the idea is dying.

And yet people continue to vote for Ds and Rs. I'll never understand why.

There was an article not too long ago about how the Libertarians were starting to gain more legitimacy. But, I think it's more centric minded citizens are getting tired of the D and R's crap. At least I hope so.

sarcastrophe: And yet people continue to vote for Ds and Rs. I'll never understand why.

This is the first year in my life I will vote for a "D or an R" for president. I've always voted libertarian for president before now.

sarcastrophe: And yet people continue to vote for Ds and Rs. I'll never understand why.

Two incredibly powerful entrenched parties and their symbiosis with incredibly wealthy business cartels? A steady alteration of the political landscape to favor both the incumbent persons and parties? The intentional marginalization and denigration of any and all third parties? An encouragement in belief in the false dichotomy from all players, including the media? 150+ years of the status quo? The inherent human identification with Us-vs-Them?

You want a list?

Occam's Chainsaw: Two incredibly powerful entrenched parties and their symbiosis with incredibly wealthy business cartels? A steady alteration of the political landscape to favor both the incumbent persons and parties? The intentional marginalization and denigration of any and all third parties? An encouragement in belief in the false dichotomy from all players, including the media? 150+ years of the status quo? The inherent human identification with Us-vs-Them?

You want a list?

No. Your current list was depressing enough.

log_jammin: This is the first year in my life I will vote for a "D or an R" for president. I've always voted libertarian for president before now.

Then you're settling with the lesser of two evils thing, I imagine. There's nothing really wrong with that, I guess. I voted for Kerry in '04, so I understand where you're coming from.

sarcastrophe: Then you're settling with the lesser of two evils thing, I imagine.

no not really. I've even donated money for the first time in my life.

and it all boils down to one word. "Leadership".

Not in the sense that its been played the last 20 years or more (The president as a CEO. Citizens are the employees).

I mean real leadership. I may turn out to be wrong. He may blow it and become a complete douche. but I haven't seen anything yet that would lead me to believe he will.

log_jammin: no not really. I've even donated money for the first time in my life.

and it all boils down to one word. "Leadership".

Not in the sense that its been played the last 20 years or more (The president as a CEO. Citizens are the employees).

I mean real leadership. I may turn out to be wrong. He may blow it and become a complete douche. but I haven't seen anything yet that would lead me to believe he will.

This was the first time for me too, but I donated to Ron Paul :).

sarcastrophe: This was the first time for me too, but I donated to Ron Paul :).

Ron Paul: the Raistlin Majere of the 2008 presidential election.

log_jammin: sarcastrophe: And yet people continue to vote for Ds and Rs. I'll never understand why.

This is the first year in my life I will vote for a "D or an R" for president. I've always voted libertarian for president before now.

Yeah i wish i was more excited about Obama I'm glad he beat Hillary. I hope he beats Mccain and know he will. But i know he's just another puppet. He will say anything to get elected and fark over his base in the end. He already showed me his cards.

Democrats fooled me once in 2004 when they nominated Kerry. Then fooled me again in 2006 when they were elected to do something and didn't do shiat. they're enablers all talk no action.They complain to get elected then get scared and roll over.

Occam's Chainsaw: Ron Paul: the Raistlin Majere of the 2008 presidential election.

That's very possibly the geekiest thing I've ever heard.

sarcastrophe: Occam's Chainsaw: Ron Paul: the Raistlin Majere of the 2008 presidential election.

That's very possibly the geekiest thing I've ever heard.

Geekier than a Ron Paul character sheet?

Occam's Chainsaw: Geekier than a Ron Paul character sheet?

Yes. Your comment was geekier than even a Ron Paul character sheet. That's how bad it was. You should do a d20 roll for 19 or better to find out if you should shoot yourself in the face or not :).

sarcastrophe: Jeeeze. You argued me to a standstill in the other thread all the while posting in here too?

/reminds self to pick his battles more carefully in the future

Mija: Libertarians are scum. Greedy, clueless scum.

Libertarians are the only ones fighting, I mean actually fighting, to preserve your privacy & civil liberties in this country. While the Democrats are putting on a Dog & Pony show.

You wanna know why the Democrats didn't put up a huge fight against Bush when all this illegal wire tapping & spying on the public was going on?

Because the Democrats want that power when they get into office too.

It just so happened that it was the OTHER party who initiated it, and made themselves look like the tyrants the are, and the Democrats as the good guys they aren't in the processes.

Mija 2008-07-25 02:54:21 AM
Wait till Libertarians become ill, their insurance turns them down for a life saving treatment or they are too ill to work and they lose their insurance. As they die they can think about all the times they said tax payers didn't deserve tax funded, health care. Now that's FAILURE. Libertarians are scum. Greedy, clueless scum.

Dude, it's already happened.

Ron Paul's top campaign manager Kent Snyder recently died of pneumonia, leaving his family with $400,000 in debt to cover the medical bills. So for all their talk of private insurance, Kent Snyder apparently went without. But hey, he had a good reason. He had a pre-existing condition, which prevented him from getting healthcare. Ron Paul, meanwhile, was the only person in congress to vote against the genetic information non-discrimination act, which would have allowed insurance companies to discriminate against people while they were still in the womb. Also, Snyder was gay, which would have made it harder to get health care via a partner. Ron Paul is generally a strong opponent of gay rights.

Now, when you talk about universal health care, libertarians will frequently speak of the virtues of private charity, which they insist will be a far more efficient means of payment, while accusing anyone who doesn't believe in private charity because they're willing to spend "other people's" money but not their own (ignoring the fact that the people who argue in favor of UHC still pay taxes.).

So after all their multi-million dollar money bombs and record high donations, just how much money has the Paultard campaign raised for their Paultard campaign manager? Apparently, they raised $34k, or 8% of the necessary amount. Paultards are great when it comes to raising money to spread their propaganda on how the free market and private donations can cure all our social ills. They're pretty terrible when it comes to raising money to actually cure them. If the libertarian mantra couldn't even work for Ron Paul's top campaign manager, then why in the world would it work for the the tens of millions of nobodies who can't afford coverage, and the tens of millions more who do have coverage, but who get screwed over by their insurance companies after the fact? They should focus on solving a few of their own problems, before insisting that they can solve all the problems for the country as a whole.

This article lacks the good stuff, like what the Secret Service tried and discarded as the code word for McCain. Yoda? Babe Magnet?

Obama must cost more to protect because he's been traveling with the whole 8, 9, 10 o'clock news crews from every channel

If the libertarian party took some sort of power it would just mean those who own our government would just split the bribe money three ways instead of two.

The Secret Service budgeted $106.65 million for the 2008 campaign cycle, compared to $73.3 million in 2004.

$106 million ? For just 2008 ? Friggin' outsource protection.

I would say Ron Paul has a better character than either mccain or obama. The problem with socialists are that they want everyone else to do what they do, instead of leaving people up to their own free will. it's not about the money, it's about the freedom, and obama and mccain both hate freedom.

Mija: Wait till Libertarians become ill, their insurance turns them down for a life saving treatment or they are too ill to work and they lose their insurance. As they die they can think about all the times they said tax payers didn't deserve tax funded, health care. Now that's FAILURE. Libertarians are scum. Greedy, clueless scum.

After all, when the government delays on your request for health care until you die that's a marked improvement in the situation. Or the .gov turns down your request for necessary treatment because it's too expensive. That'll show us all, won't it? It'll be soooooo much better when it's .gov bureaucrats farking your health care up instead of a corporation.

News flash: not everything that goes wrong with an individual is society's problem.

/speaking for all us greedy, clueless scum: DIAF

PenisGargle: Obama must cost more to protect because he's been traveling with the whole 8, 9, 10 o'clock news crews from every channel

Your FARK handle is pretty good way to describe your comment.

MacEnvy: Bob Barr doesn't need SS protection. The crazy guys with arsenals all support him already.

FTFY

Mighty Taternuts: PenisGargle: Obama must cost more to protect because he's been traveling with the whole 8, 9, 10 o'clock news crews from every channel

Your FARK handle is pretty good way to describe your comment.

FARK really cracks me up sometimes. A guy with the handle of "Mighty Taternuts" calling "PenisGargle" on his handle. :-)

It's like when I am playing TF2 with my brother, who for some reason goes by "buttnugget" in the game. You will hear other people in the game saying "buttnugget, uber me."

Thrakkerzog: Mighty Taternuts: PenisGargle: Obama must cost more to protect because he's been traveling with the whole 8, 9, 10 o'clock news crews from every channel

Your FARK handle is pretty good way to describe your comment.

FARK really cracks me up sometimes. A guy with the handle of "Mighty Taternuts" calling "PenisGargle" on his handle. :-)

It's like when I am playing TF2 with my brother, who for some reason goes by "buttnugget" in the game. You will hear other people in the game saying "buttnugget, uber me."

Taternuts is from an episode of That 70s Show. I am not sure I want to know what show PenisGargle is from.

My take on the Libertarians is this:

1. The party as a whole needs to start running serious candidates not for President, but for state legislators and governorships. Cheaper elections to run, and it creates a breeding ground where policies and ideas can be tested.
2. The party needs to stop running:
a. Anti-tax nutters
b. Your crazy uncle that looks like Santa Claus
c. Cliff Huxtable sweater-fetishists
d. Any combination or all of the above.
Kurt Russell is a die-hard libertarian. Who wouldn't vote for Snake Plissken as governor of Nevada or something?

That is just my opinion.

Wait till Libertarians become ill, their insurance turns them down for a life saving treatment or they are too ill to work and they lose their insurance.

Those are both private industries right now, why would libertarians be opposed to them?

Now, if you want to say when he was fired he wanted unemployment that would be hypocritical.

Apparently, they raised $34k, or 8% of the necessary amount. Paultards are great when it comes to raising money to spread their propaganda on how the free market and private donations can cure all our social ills.

You are acting like raising $34,000 for a person most of these people have never met to pay for his medical bills is some sort of charity failure?

Also for the record, they only raised $34,000 through the website. We have no idea if Ron himself gave a check, or anyone else for that matter. $34,000 is LP members ponying up a few bucks at a time.

It is not Obama million dollars fundraiser impressive but it is still a pretty good thing.

atlanta_ufo: The Secret Service budgeted $106.65 million for the 2008 campaign cycle, compared to $73.3 million in 2004.

$106 million ? For just 2008 ? Friggin' outsource protection.

All the expenses for Obama's protection can be solved in one call...

soakitincider 2008-07-25 09:38:51 AM
I would say Ron Paul has a better character than either mccain or obama. The problem with socialists are that they want everyone else to do what they do, instead of leaving people up to their own free will. it's not about the money, it's about the freedom, and obama and mccain both hate freedom.

Wow, didn't we get enough of this type of rhetoric with Bush?

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Ron_Paul

How to identify a Paultard:
*Will accuse any detractor of hating the Constitution and hating liberty. This isn't at all similar to how neocons label detractors as freedom-haters who hate America.

tr0g 2008-07-25 09:51:28 AM
After all, when the government delays on your request for health care until you die that's a marked improvement in the situation. Or the .gov turns down your request for necessary treatment because it's too expensive. That'll show us all, won't it? It'll be soooooo much better when it's .gov bureaucrats farking your health care up instead of a corporation.

Yes, it is, because government doesn't have to waste gobs and gobs of money hiring lawyers to find loopholes in your contract so that they can deny you coverage when you need it most, just so that they can maintain their profit margins and keep their shareholders happy. What incentive does government have to deny you coverage, that doesn't exist to a much greater degree in private industry?

Mosey 2008-07-25 10:47:37 AM
You are acting like raising $34,000 for a person most of these people have never met to pay for his medical bills is some sort of charity failure?

Most of them have probably never met Ron Paul in person either nor the person who managed his blimp, but that didn't stop them from donating tens of millions of dollars to Ron Paul's campaign and hundreds of thousands of dollars for a goddamned blimp. But the point is that libertarians will constantly extoll the virtues of the free market, and insist that private charity will make up for the failures in private health care. The problem here is that Paultards tend to spend more money delivering the message than they do on actually carrying through on it.

Also for the record, they only raised $34,000 through the website. We have no idea if Ron himself gave a check, or anyone else for that matter.

We have no idea if Big Foot is real, or if Area 51 has the plans for super efficient power generation that they managed to reverse engineer from alien technology. Appeal to ignorance is not an argument.