A thriller brought to you by Scotland Yard's Deputy Assistant Commissioner Alfred Hitchcock

Much like the US, Britain seems determined to continue do follow policy that by every standard has been a dismal failure. In this case it has been civilian disarmament.

Crosshair: Much like the US, Britain seems determined to continue do follow policy that by every standard has been a dismal failure. In this case it has been civilian disarmament.

Less so the "disarmament" as subscribing to the folly of thinking that simplistic addressing of the symptoms of a problem, will do much good.

Violent crime isn't just a matter of tools and opportunity. If that were the case, the Swiss would be wracked with horrible violence, owing to the armed state of the populace. Same for the folks in Canuckistan who are pretty well armed, despite what folks who like to point fingers across our wide borders often like to admit.

Simply having or not having weapons doesn't solve the underlying causes of violence. It only changes the nature and style of the violence. If you don't address those issues, you don't see a change in the number of incidents as much as you change the style in which those crimes are committed. Which does change the statistics, and often in ways that allow folks to fudge a bit for their own purposes.

Weapons alone, their being in the hands of a populace or not, aren't the determining factor--they are often a symptom, but not the cause of violence or peaceable conduct. You have to factor in economic and social stability. How safe do citizens feel? How stressed is the populace? Are there safeties in place to catch citizens? Is there a culture that rewards violence? Is the populace encouraged by the State to act on its own? Ignored by the State in such a way that they feel they have to take matters into their own hands?

You can't encourage a populace to act in a certain fashion, and then dare to be surprised when it occurs. Be that the UK or the US. You remove a social safety net, and threaten the populace with economic and social instability, you can't be surprised when they begin to act in ways to protect themselves, or take matters into their own hands. You can certainly address the symptoms by cracking down, but until you remove the factors that lead to the violence, all you are going to do is change the style in which it is committed, or you can try to focus the debate on the criminals, as opposed to actually fixing the problem--which is in part how the UK has handled themselves, and the US treats its violent crimes.

So long as you address symptoms, you aren't going to fix a damn thing. Just throw a band aid over a big gaping wound, and hoping it heals on its own isn't a real smart way to treat the thing, but that's pretty much how the US and the UK seem to be dealing with things.

Very good post hubiestubert.

hubiestubert: You are making sense and speaking truth, We'll have none of that here, be off with you...

AMS0000: hubiestubert: You are making sense and speaking truth, We'll have none of that here, be off with you...

Sorry about that. I'll go back to polishing my guns and muttering phrases about illegal immigrants...

a few years ago my firm sent out an email to employees clarifying their "no weapons" policy, which included no knives of any type. a senior partner replied-to-all within 30 minutes saying that as written, the policy was complete bullshiat. he challenged them to take the knife he uses as a letter opener and accused the firm of blatantly violating its own rules by providing cutlery for general use in the kitchens

his email was a thing of beauty - i wish i had saved it. i've never seen the firm backpedal faster on anything

/got a pocket knife engraved with my initials from another partner last christmas

This theory would seem to be backed up by media reports, which have included photos taken from social networking sites showing young people proudly wielding knives and even machetes.

I can't wait until the Nanny State takes knives away from everybody and teenagers are forced to look tough while posing with sticks in their Facebook pictures.

Walker: This theory would seem to be backed up by media reports, which have included photos taken from social networking sites showing young people proudly wielding knives and even machetes.

I can't wait until the Nanny State takes knives away from everybody and teenagers are forced to look tough while posing with sticks in their Facebook pictures.

Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to pose in Facebook with pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're perusing Facebook tonight and some great homicidal maniac posts a pic with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me!

hubiestubert: So long as you address symptoms, you aren't going to fix a damn thing. Just throw a band aid over a big gaping wound, and hoping it heals on its own isn't a real smart way to treat the thing, but that's pretty much how the US and the UK seem to be dealing with things.

In other words: "Throughout history, people have been, are, and will be farked up creatures and there ain't a damn thing the eggheads can do about it."

I wonder how long before the gov't of Britain bans hands?

It's a good thing that we here in America have the second amendment.

Wait, nevermind. The NRA has re-written that to only apply to guns.

Next thing you know there will be an arms race on British streets...Knives, machetes, chainsaws...Where will it end???



That's not a knife...

So, which asshole thought it was a good idea in the first place to cede an individual's right to self-defense to the government?

hubiestubert: AMS0000: hubiestubert: You are making sense and speaking truth, We'll have none of that here, be off with you...

Sorry about that. I'll go back to polishing my guns and muttering phrases about illegal immigrants...

Now you're speaking my language.

/I kid

LocalCynic: Wait, nevermind. The NRA has re-written that to only apply to guns.

Nobody's stopping you from forming the National Knife Association, are they?

Don't do what Donnie Don't does.

What's next? Pointy sticks? Fresh fruit?

Man On Pink Corner: LocalCynic: Wait, nevermind. The NRA has re-written that to only apply to guns.

Nobody's stopping you from forming the National Knife Association, are they?

ehhh... a few collectors might take issue with it, but other than that, you're right

Man On Pink Corner: LocalCynic: Wait, nevermind. The NRA has re-written that to only apply to guns.

Nobody's stopping you from forming the National Knife Association, are they?

Is there even knife control in the U.S.? I thought I could go online, pick out a two-handed sword, and whip out my credit card, without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

When it comes to violent people, disarming law-abiding citizens only intensifies problems. Silly Nanny state...

Snarfangel
Is there even knife control in the U.S.? I thought I could go online, pick out a two-handed sword, and whip out my credit card, without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

In MA, many bladed weapons are banned. You can't have knives over a certain length and traditional martial arts weapons, such as swords and nunchucks, are banned. I don't know about plain staffs but I wouldn't be surprised. So don't remove that broom from its handle if you know what's best for you.

"On Friday police confirmed the death of an 18-year-old in south London, the 21st teenager to die of violence in the British capital this year, amid wider concerns about anti-social behaviour among young people on the streets"

Wimps. Hang in downtown Detroit for a few days.

Alf Hitchcock, Gloria Laycock

This has to be satire

Gloria: "Daddy, I can't believe you have a gun. Did you know there were 10,000 deaths from guns last year?"

Archie: "Would it make you feel better if they was pushed outta windows?"

/paraphrasing

FTFA/3_Butt_Cheeks: "On Friday police confirmed the death of an 18-year-old in south London, the 21st teenager to die of violence in the British capital this year, amid wider concerns about anti-social behaviour among young people on the streets"

It's no wonder more teens are carrying, genius journalist. Who wouldn't?

Walker: This theory would seem to be backed up by media reports, which have included photos taken from social networking sites showing young people proudly wielding knives and even machetes.

I can't wait until the Nanny State takes knives away from everybody and teenagers are forced to look tough while posing with stickssporks in their Facebook pictures.

FTFY

Nothing in his pockets but knives and lint...

Snarfangel: without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

California and the New England nanny states do ban many kind of bladed weapons.... sword canes, for instance. Virginia bans throwing stars.

What about led pipes. Are led pipes illegal?

Sucks if you're a ninja living in London.

Prison Weapons

There are still ways and means even if knives are banned.

Tassach: Snarfangel: without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

California and the New England nanny states do ban many kind of bladed weapons.... sword canes, for instance. Virginia bans throwing stars.

The Bowie Knife was made illegal back in its heyday.

hubiestubert: Crosshair: Much like the US, Britain seems determined to continue do follow policy that by every standard has been a dismal failure. In this case it has been civilian disarmament.

Less so the "disarmament" as subscribing to the folly of thinking that simplistic addressing of the symptoms of a problem, will do much good.

Violent crime isn't just a matter of tools and opportunity. If that were the case, the Swiss would be wracked with horrible violence, owing to the armed state of the populace. Same for the folks in Canuckistan who are pretty well armed, despite what folks who like to point fingers across our wide borders often like to admit.

Simply having or not having weapons doesn't solve the underlying causes of violence. It only changes the nature and style of the violence. If you don't address those issues, you don't see a change in the number of incidents as much as you change the style in which those crimes are committed. Which does change the statistics, and often in ways that allow folks to fudge a bit for their own purposes.

Weapons alone, their being in the hands of a populace or not, aren't the determining factor--they are often a symptom, but not the cause of violence or peaceable conduct. You have to factor in economic and social stability. How safe do citizens feel? How stressed is the populace? Are there safeties in place to catch citizens? Is there a culture that rewards violence? Is the populace encouraged by the State to act on its own? Ignored by the State in such a way that they feel they have to take matters into their own hands?

You can't encourage a populace to act in a certain fashion, and then dare to be surprised when it occurs. Be that the UK or the US. You remove a social safety net, and threaten the populace with economic and social instability, you can't be surprised when they begin to act in ways to protect themselves, or take matters into their own hands. You can certainly address the symptoms by cracking down, but until you remove the factors that lead to the violence, all you are going to do is change the style in which it is committed, or you can try to focus the debate on the criminals, as opposed to actually fixing the problem--which is in part how the UK has handled themselves, and the US treats its violent crimes.

So long as you address symptoms, you aren't going to fix a damn thing. Just throw a band aid over a big gaping wound, and hoping it heals on its own isn't a real smart way to treat the thing, but that's pretty much how the US and the UK seem to be dealing with things.

Your newsletter, subscription rates please.

still better than all these murderers with guns.

Who ever heard of a drive-by knifing?

And as much as you may of heard different, banning guns is not a "nonviolent" solution, as it imposes a systemic oppression, or systemic violence, to keep people from owning them. Nonviolent solutions would be counseling programs and improving education, and giving kids something better to do with their time.. maybe even.. I dunno, addressing their actual concerns and not treating them "like children" as much.

Well, I guess there can be ONLY one.

"They fear they're going to be attacked themselves," said Professor Gloria Laycock

Haha, Professor Laycock

Ah yes, the first weapon I carried was my Boy Scout knife. Order of the Arrow Ordeal weekends were especially fun, as the blood flowed from all the initiates cutting themselves while trying to carve the arrow they had to wear.

/good times

hubiestubert: AMS0000: hubiestubert: You are making sense and speaking truth, We'll have none of that here, be off with you...

Sorry about that. I'll go back to polishing my guns and muttering phrases about illegal immigrants...

You forgot about those mooslum turrests. Mooslum turrest that cross the messican border. =P

Of course when you outlaw guns or knives only outlaws will have them...because the very possession of them means you're breaking the law if you own a gun or knife, so therefore you're an outlaw.

/always thought that saying was idiotic

"We have seen the emergence of a worrying trend in relation to knife crime," said Scotland Yard's Deputy Assistant Commissioner Alf Hitchcock.

Presumably the trend is that they're being used to attack women in showers?

/Yeah, I know the boobies beat me to it.

I don't believe this article one bit. Taking away guns solves any and all violence.

/this is a hijack. We're taking this thread to Cuba

hubiestubert: Crosshair: Much like the US, Britain seems determined to continue do follow policy that by every standard has been a dismal failure. In this case it has been civilian disarmament.

Less so the "disarmament" as subscribing to the folly of thinking that simplistic addressing of the symptoms of a problem, will do much good.

Violent crime isn't just a matter of tools and opportunity. If that were the case, the Swiss would be wracked with horrible violence, owing to the armed state of the populace. Same for the folks in Canuckistan who are pretty well armed, despite what folks who like to point fingers across our wide borders often like to admit.

Simply having or not having weapons doesn't solve the underlying causes of violence. It only changes the nature and style of the violence. If you don't address those issues, you don't see a change in the number of incidents as much as you change the style in which those crimes are committed. Which does change the statistics, and often in ways that allow folks to fudge a bit for their own purposes.

Weapons alone, their being in the hands of a populace or not, aren't the determining factor--they are often a symptom, but not the cause of violence or peaceable conduct. You have to factor in economic and social stability. How safe do citizens feel? How stressed is the populace? Are there safeties in place to catch citizens? Is there a culture that rewards violence? Is the populace encouraged by the State to act on its own? Ignored by the State in such a way that they feel they have to take matters into their own hands?


Nice post hubiestubert. The problem in the UK is there has been a growing sub-culture of knife carrying and usage over the last 10 years. The estimate is 25% of those under 18 regularly carry a knife, and the recent murders have raised this issue to the public fore.

I'm not sure if there has been a massive rise in the rates of assaults or murders, or just the publicity given to them but there is now a large consensus in the UK that something has to be done.

Now you are right to a great extent that culture plays a big part, this is part of the reason I moved to Switzerland, but I don't see the vast majority of those in the knife-wielding demographic suddenly becoming all Alpine.

So, there are two basic options left. They could arm everyone else to balance things out, problem with this more idiots will have weapons and when you compare the murder rates between the UK and the USA firearm ownership isn't an attractive option - your rate is 4x the UK's.

The only reasonable option is to make the concept of carrying a knife as a weapon socially unacceptable, though a change in the perceived coolness of carrying a blade as well as the risks associated with having one from a legal perspective.

Will this work? Only tine will tell. If it doesn't was the UK right in tightening regulations? Well, unless you can change the predominant youth culture there ain't a lot else you can do.

This isn't a liberty issue, as a lot of Americans get all pissy about - like you with torture we define freedom differently to you septic's. - absolute versus effective.

Bith Set Me Up: Don't do what Donnie Don't does.

Came here to make that reference.

"They could have made this clearer."

Well, from what you see on TV news reports about the UK, their kids seem to go out, commit crimes and basically get slapped on the wrist and sent home.

I recall one report and video of this guy, maybe 19, who led the cops on a long car chase, endangering civilians all over the place, smacked into a few other cars, then ran his through a closed gate and wrecked it, popped out and ran. The cops caught him and he lost his driving license for a year and was given a stern warning!

I almost fell off my chair when I heard that.

Other reports have shown cops getting into fights with young men on the street and they might spend a few days in jail, have a small fine to pay and be back on the streets.

One kid, a chronic speeder, admitted he likes speeding, has been caught numerous times and paid fines, had his license removed, been ordered to retake driving school -- which, over there, is pretty costly -- but still floors it on the roads. Now and then, when the cops spot him, he likes to run from them for a bit. It's all great sport to him.

As a kid, I carried a knife. Nearly all of us boys did. We got them when we were like 7. We didn't ever consider using them in fights, but they were for whittling, cutting cord, slicing that stubborn orange stem to get the fruit off the tree and making swords from dried palm tree frond stems to battle knights and dragons with.

As Boy Scouts, a large Shiite knife was a part of our camping kit, along with a belt sheath and a machete.

I was sorely disappointed when I attended a big Boy Scout Camporee a few years ago to find that the bowie knives had been banned. Insurance reasons. The kids might get hurt and their parents might sue.

Anyone who has ever been a Boy Scout knows that on wilderness camps, the kids manage to find ways to get hurt without using any implements.

I do recall a time in the late 70s when suddenly, it seemed that 'thugs' started carrying around straight razors. Shortly after that I started seeing news reports of folks getting into fights, loosing and then coming back with a gun and killing the winner.

But, it all just proves that if folks want to mangle each other up, they don't need a gun to do it with. I recall people carrying brass knuckles, later they carried these collapsible, steel batons, some folks carried a leather pouch, filled with tiny lead shot, called a 'sap' to whack others in the head with. A cop I knew had leather gloves with fine lead shot sewn into the knuckles, back of the hand and the upper part of the fingers.

Man On Pink Corner: LocalCynic: Wait, nevermind. The NRA has re-written that to only apply to guns.

Nobody's stopping you from forming the National Knife Association, are they?

Well actually: Link (new window)

I still have my Toten' Chip.

Half Man Half Biscuit: The estimate is 25% of those under 18 regularly carry a knife, and the recent murders have raised this issue to the public fore.

This is a ridiculously misleading statistic, as it includes pocket knives which I believe are the majority of those carried. I also have a very hard time believing it's 25%, as approximately half those under 18 are under 9.