His "So Alone" album is an all-time favorite. Saw him pretty messed up in New York once in 1980, with Wayne Kramer, and then again a few years later in New Orleans. Weird hearing that he died down there...

More:

Chatter Box -- Johnny singing with the Dolls

Johnny solo: You Can't Put Your Arms Around A Memory

Thanks. Of course no one will have a clue whom Thunders was or why he was so farking cool. Why was he? I don't know. He wasn't the greatest guitarist. Yet I immediately know who it it is whenever I hear that distinct sound he got from his guitar. Or his attitude (that is important in R&R, isn't it?) onstage.

He was also the quintessential junkie of rock (imo). Only surpassed by Keith Richards, but shiat did Johnny get stoned...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s6IRVBFgOo

/rip junkie

Chinese Rock?

JohnnyRebel88: Chinese Rock?


I got yer Chinese Rocks right here.

DrBenway:

"I got yer Chinese Rocks right here."

This is from the documentary "D.O.A. - A Rite of Passage". Great performance too. I watched Don Letts' documentary on Punk rock ("Punk Attitude") and it pretty much verifies that when Johnny Thunders and the Heart Breakers came to London they brought heroin (& Nancy Spungen) with them and within a year destroyed Punk rock in the U.K..

Johnny is also credited with re-kick starting Iggy Pop's heroin habit in 1973 when the N.Y. Dolls came to L.A. and hung out with the Stooges.

I still won't condemn the man, he did have some great musical moments.

artman: Why was he? I don't know. He wasn't the greatest guitarist. Yet I immediately know who it it is whenever I hear that distinct sound he got from his guitar

Artman, you have answered your own question. In a world overflowing with rock guitarists, there are a handful who have a unique, immediately identifiable, inimitable quality, and JT, despite all his technical limitations and personal faults , was in that elite group.

I have a Johnny story if anyone is interested. It is a little long but it does involve all the shiat you would expect.

artman: they brought heroin (& Nancy Spungen)

Hey don't blame The Heartbreakers for Nancy. She came over on her own looking for Jerry Nolan, and he told her to get lost, which is when she lit on Sid.

artman: Johnny is also credited with re-kick starting Iggy Pop's heroin habit in 1973 when the N.Y. Dolls came to L.A. and hung out with the Stooges.

I always heard it was the other way around -- that Iggy turned Johnny and Jerry on then.

Not even a little impressed

doctorwormwood: Not even a little impressed

Not even a little understanding your point.

I saw him in '82 at Irving Plaza, he came onstage at about 2 o'clock played 3 songs and passed out
/great show

NYRBill:

I saw him in '82 at Irving Plaza, he came onstage at about 2 o'clock played 3 songs and passed out
/great show


I saw him at Heat in NYC in May '80 and it wasn't as bad as that, but he was still pretty farked up. Wayne Kramer hadn't been out of prison for long, but he was sharp as a tack. At one point when Kramer was taking a solo or singing (can't remember the exact details at this point), Johnny went to sit down on an amp and fell backwards into the drum kit -- it seemed too true to be good.

In that one week I was up there I saw Thunders, Sun Ra, Henry Kaiser, and Orchestral Maneuvers In The Dark. Only bad part was that the main thing we'd gone up there for was Joy Division, which of course was not to be. (On that note, it's Ian Curtis' birthday today too.)

The Dynamite Monkey:

artman: they brought heroin (& Nancy Spungen)

"Hey don't blame The Heartbreakers for Nancy. She came over on her own looking for Jerry Nolan, and he told her to get lost, which is when she lit on Sid."

The Heartbreakers were known for their junkie mystic in NYC, only it wasn't a fantasy, it was real. Also, since Nancy followed Nolan to London, I think the connection is still there. Check out "Punk Attitude" It'll fill you in on the horrid details...

artman: Johnny is also credited with re-kick starting Iggy Pop's heroin habit in 1973 when the N.Y. Dolls came to L.A. and hung out with the Stooges.

"I always heard it was the other way around -- that Iggy turned Johnny and Jerry on then."

I did too. But I just finished reading "Open Up and Bleed" on Iggy and it states otherwise. The Stooges after Fun House were all junkies by then and after Bowie stepped in, Iggy got off the habit and went to London with James Williamson to record Raw Power. Iggy called back the Ashton brothers and finished the album. Then Main Man records sent them to L.A. to wait out on the record release, giving them a mansion on the Hollywood Hills.

The pool in the backyard was a major hangout for all the freaks and low-lifes would hook-up and do drugs. That's where Johnny came by to visit Sable Starr (former gf) and Iggy. Then produced some H and the destruction began again...

Thing is though, this is all based upon the recollections of people who fried their brains on an hourly basis at the time, so accuracy is not a given.

DrBenway: I saw him at Heat in NYC in May '80 and it wasn't as bad as that, but he was still pretty farked up.
In that one week I was up there I saw Thunders, Sun Ra, Henry Kaiser, and OMD. Only bad part was that the main thing we'd gone up there for was Joy Division, which of course was not to be. (On that note, it's Ian Curtis' birthday today too.)

I wasn't old enough to go in '80 ;-)
it was my first time seeing him and wasn't a good impression. the band did a few songs without him but they got JT back out eventually. total set was about 45 minutes
/I saw him other times later and he was much better

10. No
9. No
8. No
7. Yes
6. No
5. Dear god no
4. Maybe
3. No
2. Maybe
1. Dear sweet merciful Jesus no.

/The only really good act on the list was the one he said he didn't like or understand. Surprise, surprise.

I saw him in '82(?) too. They brought him up stage in a wheelchair, propped him up, strapped his guitar and plugged it in. He regained consciousness and played as though it was his last show on Earth.

But the most distinct memories were when the Dolls performed on Don Kirshner's Rock Concert and the Midnight Special as a young teenager.

Here's another rare clip from a German TV show of the Dolls performing "Lookin' for a Kiss". It is the best live TV appearance of them. Turn it up, it's worth it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dTDmyil4aM

/sorry for no linkage
//i'm not a member of fark

mofomisfit: /The only really good act on the list was the one he said he didn't like or understand. Surprise, surprise.

I think you may have a bit of a threadup in your mixes.

artman, how long have you been in Philadelphia? Were you around when the East Side Club was open? I was in town briefly in '82 and wandered in there one night, can't remember who was playing. I still have my card for the place (you had to "join").

The Dynamite Monkey:

I have a Johnny story if anyone is interested. It is a little long but it does involve all the shiat you would expect.

Well, on with it...

Sounds entertaining.

DrBenway: "artman, how long have you been in Philadelphia? Were you around when the East Side Club was open? I was in town briefly in '82 and wandered in there one night, can't remember who was playing. I still have my card for the place (you had to "join")."

Yeah! I think I still have my card too! Saw many, many bands there (REM, Pylon, U2, XTC, Pretenders, Gang of Four...). Philly was pretty good for early punk. There was the East Side Club, Hot Klub, Love Club, Ripley's, J.C. Dobbs, Walnut Street Theater and The Tower Theater. Across the river in New Jersey there was Trenton City Gardens and Emerald City.

Good times. When the tickets, music, beers, drugs and pussy was fast and cheap (not all in that order...).

TheBitterest: The Dynamite Monkey:

I have a Johnny story if anyone is interested. It is a little long but it does involve all the shiat you would expect.

Well, on with it...

Sounds entertaining.

OK, since the thread is kinda quiet... I will try to tell this story as rapidly as possible, but it is long, so skip if you need to.

I used to book a club in Syracuse the early 80s. Johnny was one of my idols so against all advice I booked Johnny for a Saturday night, two shows, 10 & midnite with a house clear in between. $1200 bucks. Both shows sold out.

All the rest of the band and JT's mgr at the time arrived the day before. All very nice, sober, pleasant people. John was due to arrive on the 7 pm flight. We sent a guy out to pick him up. No John on plane.

Mgr says "no worries, I booked him on the 830 also."

8:30 -- No John on the plane.

Mgr says "no worries, I booked him on the 11pm also.". I retort. "That is 1 hour after the 10pm show starts." Mgr says "...ummm... sorry...".

I tell him, "if he is not onstage by 11:30, we will have to cancel one show and you will only get $600." Mgr says OK.

Backup band goes on at 10:30. At -- literally, as I was looking at my watch -- 11:29, JT walks in and walks directly onto the stage. Starts playing like it his life depended on it. Crowd goes NUTS. it is awesome, the highlight being "great big kiss" sung with a girl he pulled up from the crowd. Much pushing and shoving by the stage, and my sound guy (and good friend) gets in a fight with a very large girl. She dumps a beer on him, and the sound guy, one of the nicest, gentlest people I have ever known, dropped her with a Ken Norton style right cross. And I do mean he drops her.

JT rocks for exactly four songs, then says "I gotta go freshen up". It's after midnight now, I have three hundred people outside in 10 degree weather banging on the door. I go running across the club and burst into the dressing room.

That's when I watch Johnny shoot up.

He did it very casually, the way most of us comb our hair. Some girl cooked it up in a bottlecap over a bic lighter, while he rolled up his sleeve and took the sweaty bandanna from around his head and tied off. He was talking the whole time about something I can't remember. He put the needle into what looked like a pre-made hole in his arm, and as soon as he did, his speech slowed down... and in a minue he was on the nod.

I finally regained my composure after watching this and said "he's gotta get back out there." MGR says, "then you have to get him coke". I had a strict policy against this back then, but I needed a show, so I sent a guy I knew could help into the room.

I went to the bar and got a case of Molson, and walked up to my soundguy, who promptly quit. I told him to fark off and handed him the molson I knew he loved. He laughed and we sat on the side of the stage and began to drink it. We finished it too.

Much of the rest of the night is a blur. Johnny came back out and was a disaster. After a while his band left the stage and left him up there alone. We cleared the house about 1 am -- people were pissed, club has to close at 2 -- and the second show began. It was awful -- I have it all on tape. Johnny did not play one complete song and at one point whipped out his dick and said "I farked David Johansen's wife with this dick".

Since I was sitting on the stage I started yelling songs to Johnny and he would play them. The rest of the night was TDM's request hour until the cops showed up at 2:15 and shut down the PA and turned on the house lights. Johnny kept his marshall going anyway and did three songs like that with no PA.

After the show, he came up to me and said "Are you the promoter? Listen, man I am sorry about the circumstances..." a real humble apology. Somehow at this point he was sober as a church mouse. I was not. Then he asked if I had any rolling papers.

He signed my flyer for the show -- it hangs above my desk here.

What I learned later is that everybody who ever met Johnny has a story like this. He was a great artist, but a lowlife junkie is a lowlife junkie.

Thanks for your indulgence.

the fact that dude went on to do "Hot, Hot, Hot" in the 80's immediately removes all his punk cred

artman: Across the river in New Jersey there was Trenton City Gardens and Emerald City.

I went to many shows at City Gardens. I saw Agent Orange and the Descendents, TSOL 3-4 times, RHCP, Buzzcocks....
Link (new window)
link for posters from shows. they are from 91-93 but check out some of the bands who played then

Derwood: the fact that dude went on to do "Hot, Hot, Hot" in the 80's immediately removes all his punk cred

um, JT had NOTHING to do with that

Saw the Dolls at a SUNY New Paltz spring festival and the best part was watching them dodge all the beer cans flying toward their heads in those super-tight pants and super-high platform shoes.
Trash! Pick it up! WeeHA!

/same bill with The Byrds
//in with the new, out with the old

NYRBill:

artman: Across the river in New Jersey there was Trenton City Gardens and Emerald City.

"I went to many shows at City Gardens. I saw Agent Orange and the Descendents, TSOL 3-4 times, RHCP, Buzzcocks...."

Memories:

Trenton City Gardens - 1982 - The Cramps

We and my college buddies rented a school bus to take us, our girlfriends, beer and anyone else to see the Cramps. Two of my buddies got into a fist fight with some hard cores that spread into the parking lot. Another broke his arm after stage diving. One of the best, funniest times of my life.

Emerald City 1980 - The Plasmatics

This was one wild show. Screaming rock and roll, explosions, sledge hammers and boobies with shaving cream. After the show, we snuck into the dressing room and had Heinekens and coke with Richie Stotts and the bass player while watching Wendy clean up and change right in plain view. My friend still has the autographed half of guitar that Wendy chainsawed during the show.

/The Dynamite Monkey
//great story

artman: /The Dynamite Monkey
//great story

Thanks for reading it.

I saw the Plasmatics in '80 also, it was incredible. They actually were a very tight band who could all play well. Totally fun show. My friend's ear literally bled tho. That loud.

Wish like hell I had seen the Cramps back then.

BrotherTheodore: //in with the new, out with the old

Any chance you saw early Dictators' shows in NP back then? I love The Dictators.

DrBenway: JohnnyRebel88: Chinese Rock?


I got yer Chinese Rocks right here.

I cant remember what years they had Dee Dee but they used that song to piss of the Ramones and exploit his drug abuse. Of coarse Joey then covered it

Derwood: the fact that dude went on to do "Hot, Hot, Hot" in the 80's immediately removes all his punk cred

Oh Lord, as if there is anything as utterly pointless and useless as "punk cred".

If you're worried about your "punk cred" you're not punk to begin with.

The Dynamite Monkey:

artman: /The Dynamite Monkey
//great story

Thanks for reading it.

I saw the Plasmatics in '80 also, it was incredible. They actually were a very tight band who could all play well. Totally fun show. My friend's ear literally bled tho. That loud.

Wish like hell I had seen the Cramps back then.

BrotherTheodore: //in with the new, out with the old

Any chance you saw early Dictators' shows in NP back then? I love The Dictators.


I second the "great story" remark -- great story!

I didn't see the Cramps until the early 90's or so... they played in Austin and a friend's band was touring with them (or at least they came to town and played the same bill anyway). Fun but none of the danger artman aluded to.

Saw the Dictators maybe in '78 or '79 in Houston -- one of the most fun rock gigs I've ever been to, they were such a great live band. Had a good time seeing them reunited in '02 or '03 in Austin. The Handsome One was not quite so handsome anymore, but who is?

I was working record stores in the late 70's, so I got a lot of the promos, posters and free tickets for many of the new bands showing up then, and grabbed all the new imports as quickly as they came in, too. Also got to open a shows from time to time with bands I was in back then, and that was usually a good time.

A couple of other clubs back in the day came to mind...Chestnut Cabaret and Ambler Cabaret...few more that I forget the names of...they are all gone now. Philly has had a lack of good rock venues (North Star Bar being an exception). But after the no smoking ban, expensive tickets/covers/beers and security out the ass in most places I've given up on actually seeing a show these days.

Maybe I'm just older...when I see listings of bands today, I'm clueless.

/yeah, get off my you know what

DrBenway: NYRBill:

I saw him in '82 at Irving Plaza, he came onstage at about 2 o'clock played 3 songs and passed out
/great show


I saw him at Heat in NYC in May '80....

Now THAT was a fun club. Thunders, Dead Boys, etc....

Bassist is playing a nice Rickenbacker. Full-width inlays, Grover tuners, old pickup spacing - July '73 or earlier for sure.

AKA the bass I'd kill for...

LeatherPenguin:

DrBenway: I saw him at Heat in NYC in May '80....

Now THAT was a fun club. Thunders, Dead Boys, etc....


Was it open for very long? I never heard about it much at all in any of the press that made it down as far as Houston and New Orleans.

The only one of all those bands I remember seeing that didn't really do much for me was Tuff Darts. They came through Houston, seemed pretty lame.

It took a city like New Orleans...

InmanRoshi: Derwood: the fact that dude went on to do "Hot, Hot, Hot" in the 80's immediately removes all his punk cred

Oh Lord, as if there is anything as utterly pointless and useless as "punk cred".

If you're worried about your "punk cred" you're not punk to begin with.

and if you do a cheesy lounge song as Buster Poindexter, you had no cred to begin with

MmmBadEggs: Bassist is playing a nice Rickenbacker. Full-width inlays, Grover tuners, old pickup spacing - July '73 or earlier for sure.

AKA the bass I'd kill for...

That's Arthur "Killer" Kane. Whether or not you are a Dolls fan, the documentary on Arthur, New York Doll, is a great film.


Derwood: and if you do a cheesy lounge song as Buster Poindexter, you had no cred to begin with

Here are some facts for you:

1) "Buster Poindexter" was a goofy name that Johansen used so he could perform old blues songs he loved once at month at Tramps or The Bottom Line (cant remember which).
2) David Jo didn't want to tour as Buster because he was afraid it would ruin his value as David Johansen, rock singer.
3) The Buster thing got so popular, he was getting many offers to record as him. Around this time, he was dropped by his label, even though his last album (with the Animals medley) had sold over 30,000 units
4) So he did the Buster thing, and it was, to everyone's surprise, a huge hit. I'd bet the last song DJ ever wants to sing again is "Hot Hot Hot". But, as they say, it's a living.

David Jo's punk creds are as follows: Lead Singer for one of the four or five bands who collectively get credit for inventing punk rock.

What are your punk creds, Derwood?

The Dynamite Monkey:

Derwood: and if you do a cheesy lounge song as Buster Poindexter, you had no cred to begin with

Here are some facts for you:

1) "Buster Poindexter" was a goofy name that Johansen used so he could perform old blues songs he loved once at month at Tramps or The Bottom Line (cant remember which).
2) David Jo didn't want to tour as Buster because he was afraid it would ruin his value as David Johansen, rock singer.
3) The Buster thing got so popular, he was getting many offers to record as him. Around this time, he was dropped by his label, even though his last album (with the Animals medley) had sold over 30,000 units
4) So he did the Buster thing, and it was, to everyone's surprise, a huge hit. I'd bet the last song DJ ever wants to sing again is "Hot Hot Hot". But, as they say, it's a living.

David Jo's punk creds are as follows: Lead Singer for one of the four or five bands who collectively get credit for inventing punk rock.

What are your punk creds, Derwood?


Derwood seems to have stepped in something. And those were such nice shoes, too...

The Dynamite Monkey: That's Arthur "Killer" Kane. Whether or not you are a Dolls fan, the documentary on Arthur, New York Doll, is a great film.

Saw it a while ago. A strange, interesting guy for sure. Good movie...

Always meant to get into the Dolls - I'm a huge Stooges fan and always dug the other early-70s garage rock bands like MC5 and The Up and such. To my ear they fit right in.

MmmBadEggs: Always meant to get into the Dolls - I'm a huge Stooges fan and always dug the other early-70s garage rock bands like MC5 and The Up and such. To my ear they fit right in.

I'll have to check out "The Up" I don't know them ;-)

DrBenway: Derwood seems to have stepped in something. And those were such nice shoes, too...

Apparently he stepped out also. He knew he was beaten... ;-)

NYRBill: I'll have to check out "The Up" I don't know them ;-)

They're hard to find - one album, really just a collection of basement recordings. I think they had something to do with the White Panthers, John Sinclair, etc.

The Dynamite Monkey:
What are your punk creds, Derwood?

is this the old "you can't talk about football unless you played it" argument? Bravo! [golf clap]

MmmBadEggs: They're hard to find - one album, really just a collection of basement recordings. I think they had something to do with the White Panthers, John Sinclair, etc.

ok, I read some of the Wiki article on them and I've heard a bit about it. I couldn't find anything online about them since cough-limewire-cough wouldn't let me search "up" since you need at least 3 letters

Derwood: is this the old "you can't talk about football unless you played it" argument? Bravo! [golf clap]

No.

This is the "you can't say stupid things without expecting some criticism" argument.

You also made it the "can dish it out but can't take it" argument.


/ ps for the record yes someone who has been involved in something may in fact have more knowledge than someone who has not.

Derwood: is this the old "you can't talk about football unless you played it" argument? Bravo! [golf clap]


A golf clap? Dude, you lose all punk cred using a golf clap in a Johnny Thunders thread.

Derwood: and if you do a cheesy lounge song as Buster Poindexter, you had no cred to begin with

I'm sure with all of your "cred" you know that the whole Poindexter character is a satirical spoof, just like he was satirizing Mick Jagger and the bloated 70's era Stones with The Dolls (a point seemed lost on doctorwormwood as well). Not many people got the joke (including you), took it seriously, and DJ played it up for all it was worth and mocked you right in front of your faces.

Second of all, the whole movement of punk was to get away from confining notions of assimilation and the herd mentaltiy that comes along from wanting approval from your peers (a.k.a "cred"). So the phrase "punk cred" is, in essence, a contradiction in terms and a ridiculous notion.

Jet Boy stole my baby...

Link (new window)

The Dynamite Monkey

Thanks for the story. Pretty crazy night, but sounds like fun.

LosingTheWillToLive:

Jet Boy stole my baby...

Link (new window)


What the hell? Johnny playing a Vox? Most curious...