Nice preposition at the end of that sentence. You'd think Obama could hire some educated people.

Roman Fyseek:You'd think Obama could hire some educated people.

except that he probably doesn't want to outsource to foreigners, that makes it a lot harder.

Mordant:except that he probably doesn't want to outsource to foreigners, that makes it a lot harder.

Hell, he could have outsourced it to his kids. They're all multilingual and stuff.

There is nothing wrong with ending a sentence with a preposition at the end. I hate when people stop studying language in the fifth grade and just repeat the rules of thumbs teachers told them because they were too dumb to learn the real rules.

Bill Frist:There is nothing wrong with ending a sentence with a preposition at the end. I hate when people stop studying language in the fifth grade and just repeat the rules of thumbs teachers told them because they were too dumb to learn the real rules.

i learned that grammar rule from beavis and butthead.

/this is the trailer off in which they were whacking

Furthermore, the "up" in that sentence is not functioning as a preposition at all... it is functioning as an ADVERB.

In short, I'm going to have to give you a frowny face sticker, Roman Fyseek.

Bill Frist:There is nothing wrong with ending a sentence with a preposition at the end.

Furthermore, the "up" in that sentence is not functioning as a preposition at all.

Obviously.

"He's just inventing facts," would have worked well.

Sorta like you're doing.

That whole "yeah I was beaten up by Communists for seven years" thing of McCain's? Turns out it was a crock.


We should trust a man who bathed with homeless people using a fire hydrant¹.

¹http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/us/politics/30obama.html

I'm not inventing anything. Up is an adverb modifying making.

Like blow up, look over, shake down, fark off...

This is called a phrasal verb. fark, I'm horrible at grammar but even I know this stuff.

Roman Fyseek:"He's just inventing facts," would have worked well.

Sorta like you're doing.

It looks like somebody doesn't remember their English Comp I class.

Bill Frist:Like blow up, look over, shake down, fark off..

You mean 'blow up *that object*' and look over *these objects* and 'fark you'.

Maddogjew:It looks like somebody doesn't remember their English Comp I class.

It appears that you have. Sad, really.

Roman Fyseek [TotalFark] Quote 2008-07-12 11:33:55 AM
Bill Frist:Like blow up, look over, shake down, fark off..

You mean 'blow up *that object*' and look over *these objects* and 'fark you'.

*sigh*

Why do you continue to clown yourself (new window) here?


The same words that frequently function as prepositions can also function as adverbs, and often they exist as part of what we call a phrasal verb. Verbs that contain adverbs are easy to spot because the adverb significantly affects the meaning of the verb. In Churchill's sentence, for example, the verb "to put up with" means "to tolerate" and is a very different verb from "to put," which means "to set" or "to place."

Here are a few other examples. Notice how the verbs change in meaning when the adverb is part of the phrasal verb:

"to get" vs. "to get up" and "get by"
"to look" vs. "to look up," "to look out," and "to look over"
"to break" vs. "to break down" and "to break in"
"to check" vs. "to check out" and "to check up on"
"to run" vs. "to run over" and "to run down"
"to shake" vs. "to shake up" and "to shake down"
"to blow" vs. "to blow up," "to blow over," "to blow out," "to blow off," and "to blow away"

Sentences that end with these phrasal verbs appear to end with prepositions, but in fact they do not.

Although the idea that since a verb modifies an objects its adverb is a preposition is pretty amusing.

I can "shake" *that object* and I can "shake up" *this object*... that doesn't mean up is a preposition in that sentence or that "shake" itself is a preposition in the other.

But whatever, keep digging your hole deeper...

Roman Fyseek:Nice preposition at the end of that sentence.

This is the kind of tedious nonsense up with which I will not put!

Roman FyseekNice preposition at the end of that sentence.
This is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put.
-Winston Churchill, attributed (Disputed per wikiquote)

Skleenar

And now I learn why one always refreshes before posting. Good work.

Leave it Fark to have the first few comments about the article turn into some pointless grammar war.

alienated:Leave it Fark to have the first few comments about the article turn into some pointless grammar grammer war.

FTFY

/pet peeve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWYmEICNgOQ (pops) not a rr. This can help!

worse than ending a sentence with a preposition is starting a sentence with YOWZA!

YOWZA!

the ad is in the form of a casual conversation ya dopes. not everyone attended yahhhdale and had a 4.0 grade point average.

Roman Fyseek:Nice preposition at the end of that sentence. You'd think Obama could hire some educated people.

This is the sort of comment up with which I will not put!

Nothing wrong with ending a sentence with a preposition.

Back to TFA, good radio ad. Hit 'em, hit 'em hard.

Green? Oh dear.

Prediction of 1:6 being about headline; the rest: an examination of teh grammers.

Bill Frist:There is nothing wrong with ending a sentence with a preposition at the end.

FTFY

DarthBrooks:Green? Oh dear.

I didn't see that coming for.

Bill Frist:There is nothing wrong with ending a sentence with a preposition at the end.

Is it okay to end a sentence with a preposition at the beginning?

That is a really farking devestating ad. Cringeworthy, almost-- mainly because of truthiness.

And Roman Fyseek: There is no rule against ending a sentence with an adverb, that's a dusty old rule-- like not splitting an infinitive, that makes no sense, has no rationale, and somehow got codified a long time ago but has no bearing. If I want to haphazardly slice my infinitives and leave a preposition trembling at the end of my sentence, dangling off-- I can. Because the English language is a fluid and lovely thing.

Grammar only matters when distinguishing between competing meanings in the sentence. That's its function.

Obdicut:Because the English language is a fluid and lovely thing.

That just ain't right.

Roman Fyseek:That just ain't right.

Back down, Poindexter. You're a piss-poor grammar Nazi.

Lenny_da_Hog [TotalFark] Quote 2008-07-12 12:38:16 PM
Roman Fyseek:Nice preposition at the end of that sentence. You'd think Obama could hire some educated people.

This is the sort of comment up with which I will not put!

That Churchill quote is great, but I will point out again that "up" is part of a phrasal verb there, it is not a preposition.

Put it this way: Rewrite the sentence with a synonym.

You'd say something like "He's just inventing stuff." You wouldn't say "He's just inventing stuff up" because "up" is part of the verb "To make up" not a preposition attached to the stuff.

Also, Roman Fyseek, to give you a further explanation of why your *that object* argument was retarded: Verbs normally modify an object. But if a preposition was involved there would be ANOTHER object, a second one.

For example, "To move" has an object it modifies. Let us say "poster." Billy moved the poster. If a preposition is involved, there is another object though. Billy moved the poster up the wall.

What is the object in the headline? Right...there isn't one. It is a phrasal verb.

Its a preposition.

No, it is not.

damn that is a pretty good ad

/fark the grammer nazis

idk my bff jill?

The thing is, ending with a preposition is fine. Fowler called the idea that a preposition shouldn't end a sentence a superstition, one apparently stemming from Dryden (who himself sometimes didn't follow his own rule).

Roman Fyseek,you farked up.

I know what he means, i've heard that exact phrase plenty of times in my life, nothin wrong with it

Roman Fyseek:Bill Frist:Like blow up, look over, shake down, fark off..

You mean 'blow up *that object*' and look over *these objects* and 'fark you'.

Dude, settin' yourself up for like 4 ownings in the 1st 30 comments = sad

Bill Frist:Billy moved the poster up the wall.

The object would be poster. The indirect object would be wall. This isn't hard, nor is it formal.

Also, McCain needs to make stuff up:

He is losing to Obama in his home state! (new window)

gODDhead:I know what he means, i've heard that exact phrase plenty of times in my life, nothin wrong with it

I've heard irregardless about a billion times in my life. It still ain't correct.

Roman Fyseek [TotalFark] Quote 2008-07-12 01:26:26 PM
Bill Frist:Billy moved the poster up the wall.

The object would be poster. The indirect object would be wall. This isn't hard, nor is it formal.'


Exactly!

This is why your argument was retarded. You pointing out that there is an object modfified, but you didn't point out an indirect object that would indicate a preposition!

THe sentence isn't "He's just making stuff up [the wall]"

It is "He's just making up stuff" aka "He's just inventing stuff."

No preposition. Phrasal verb.

Roman Fyseek:Bill Frist:Billy moved the poster up the wall.

The object would be poster. The indirect object would be wall. This isn't hard, nor is it formal.

Wall is part of a prepositional phrase, not an indirect object. Apparently this is hard (for you).

Bill Frist:He's just making up stuff

I'm guessing that it depends on what the definition of is is.

Donald_McRonald:Wall is part of a prepositional phrase, not an indirect object.

Wall is part of the prepositional phrase 'up the wall' thus making it an indirect object. The direct object being poster.

Did you go to school?

Bill Frist:This is why your argument was retarded. You pointing out that there is an object modfified, but you didn't point out an indirect object that would indicate a preposition!

It's like watching Bush apologists trying to re-arrange reality to conform to their assertions.

I'm guessing that it depends on what the definition of is is.

Nope, just what the definition of Phrasal Verb (new window) is.


Phrasal verbs in English are composed of a verb and a "particle" that also looks like an intransitive preposition. The same can be said for the separable verb prefixes found in Dutch (and German).

* give up, look out, sleep in, carry on, come to
* Dutch: opbellen ("call up"), aanbieden ("offer"), voorstellen ("present")

Although these elements have the same lexical form as prepositions, in many cases they do not have relational semantics, and there is no "missing" complement whose identity can be recovered from the context.

Roman Fyseek:Wall is part of the prepositional phrase 'up the wall' thus making it an indirect object. The direct object being poster.

Did you go to school?

No.


An indirect object is always a noun or pronoun which is not part of a prepositional phrase.

The indirect object is often used right before a direct object and does not follow a preposition

My god. My head is about to blow up.

Either that or I am about to throw up.

I'd better get out.

Let's switch to Subject-Object-Verb word order, and argue about postpositions.