But-but-but most of the Republicans/Fark Independents^TM told us that the 15 point poll wasn't to be trusted!!!

So which is it, guys? Is he slipping, or did he never have that lead to begin with? Has it always been close, or are we looking at a momentum shift?

GoRedSoxGo:So which is it, guys? Is he slipping, or did he never have that lead to begin with? Has it always been close, or are we looking at a momentum shift?

it's probably a little bit of both.

on one hand, the 15 point lead was probably a bit overstated. on the other hand, a lot of people are pissed at him over FISA, and a lot of independents have a notion that maybe he's not much different than mccain where it counts to them.

he really did shoot himself in the foot this week.

burndtdan:GoRedSoxGo:So which is it, guys? Is he slipping, or did he never have that lead to begin with? Has it always been close, or are we looking at a momentum shift?

it's probably a little bit of both.

on one hand, the 15 point lead was probably a bit overstated. on the other hand, a lot of people are pissed at him over FISA, and a lot of independents have a notion that maybe he's not much different than mccain where it counts to them.

he really did shoot himself in the foot this week.

Perk up. McCain's own farkups are going to be showing up in polls next week.

robsul82:Perk up. McCain's own farkups are going to be showing up in polls next week.

1) i said months ago, no matter what happened, mccain's inability to stop making really stupid gaffes would sink him. i don't doubt he'll find a way to still look worse. i'm not too worried about it.

2) the last thing i want the obama campaign, and to a lesser degree obama supporters, to do is to ignore when he makes mistakes (and it clearly wasn't a popular thing to do). that's how hillary lost the primaries, she ignored her mistakes until it was too late.

burndtdan:on one hand, the 15 point lead was probably a bit overstated. on the other hand, a lot of people are pissed at him over FISA, and a lot of independents have a notion that maybe he's not much different than mccain where it counts to them.

he really did shoot himself in the foot this week.

I agree, it's just interesting to see people crow over McCain supposedly cutting into a lead that those same people were previously telling us Obama didn't have.

burndtdan:robsul82:Perk up. McCain's own farkups are going to be showing up in polls next week.

1) i said months ago, no matter what happened, mccain's inability to stop making really stupid gaffes would sink him. i don't doubt he'll find a way to still look worse. i'm not too worried about it.

2) the last thing i want the obama campaign, and to a lesser degree obama supporters, to do is to ignore when he makes mistakes (and it clearly wasn't a popular thing to do). that's how hillary lost the primaries, she ignored her mistakes until it was too late.

I just don't think he made mistakes this week. FISA burns some now, but November brings the prospect of your grandfather nominating Supreme Court Justices. The Iraq thing was media-manufactured horseshiat and I think people are coming down from it.

GoRedSoxGo:But-but-but most of the Republicans/Fark IndependentsTM told us that the 15 point poll wasn't to be trusted!!!

So which is it, guys? Is he slipping, or did he never have that lead to begin with? Has it always been close, or are we looking at a momentum shift

At the '15 point poll', McMagic was actually leading by 91 points, so he's now ahead by 103 points.

I've been an Obama supporter since last year, but I am having trouble digesting the whole FISA thing. He still has my vote, though.

nu huh..MSNBC has him up by 15 or more. That's what their talking heads have been saying for the last two days every farking minute. He's sweeping the country with his awesomeness. MSNBC says so.

robsul82:I just don't think he made mistakes this week. FISA burns some now, but November brings the prospect of your grandfather nominating Supreme Court Justices. The Iraq thing was media-manufactured horseshiat and I think people are coming down from it.

if FISA burns some now, and the only counter to that fact is that mcmain is worse, that's still not good for obama. it's a negative for him still, and it's apparently all coming together for what looks like a negative swing.

burndtdan:robsul82:Perk up. McCain's own farkups are going to be showing up in polls next week.

1) i said months ago, no matter what happened, mccain's inability to stop making really stupid gaffes would sink him. i don't doubt he'll find a way to still look worse. i'm not too worried about it.

2) the last thing i want the obama campaign, and to a lesser degree obama supporters, to do is to ignore when he makes mistakes (and it clearly wasn't a popular thing to do). that's how hillary lost the primaries, she ignored her mistakes until it was too late.

I would like him to admit his mistakes. We shouldn't have a leader who 'stays the course' and just ignores when mistakes happen. And its not about flip-flopping (I want to punch the guy in the face who coined that phrase). If Obama came out and said that he was wrong about his FISA vote, more people would happy at him seeing his mistake rather than he 'flip-flopped.'

burndtdan:robsul82:I just don't think he made mistakes this week. FISA burns some now, but November brings the prospect of your grandfather nominating Supreme Court Justices. The Iraq thing was media-manufactured horseshiat and I think people are coming down from it.

if FISA burns some now, and the only counter to that fact is that mcmain is worse, that's still not good for obama. it's a negative for him still, and it's apparently all coming together for what looks like a negative swing.

Everyone will "get over" this FISA thing just like every Hillary supporter will "get over" being beat. No worries. And every Obama supporter will send Hillary a hundred bucks because Obama wishes it, once they "get over" it.

GaryPDX:nu huh..MSNBC has him up by 15 or more. That's what their talking heads have been saying for the last two days every farking minute. He's sweeping the country with his awesomeness. MSNBC says so.

Run to the shower...your republicanism is showing!

bulldg4life:GaryPDX:nu huh..MSNBC has him up by 15 or more. That's what their talking heads have been saying for the last two days every farking minute. He's sweeping the country with his awesomeness. MSNBC says so.

Run to the shower...your republicanism is showing!


hahaha..You will not find my name on any Republican rosters. The Dems are the ones who are asserting themselves thus drawing my fire. I have ZERO love for McCain because he wants to excuse 25 million foreign fence jumpers. The man isn't anything like Bush..nothing.



/gag

bulldg4life:Run to the shower...your republicanism is showing!

Ewww! He got Neocon on my Independent™.

GaryPDX:The Dems are the ones who are asserting themselves thus drawing my fire.

Dude...I've never NOT seen you rail on a democrat.

That's a silly statement to make and you know it.

GaryPDX:nu huh..MSNBC has him up by 15 or more. That's what their talking heads have been saying for the last two days every farking minute. He's sweeping the country with his awesomeness. MSNBC says so.

if you dont like MSNBC, why are you watching it?

GaryPDX:The man isn't anything like Bush..nothing.

LOL, ok. Is that why he votes with Bush's opinion 95% of the time, because he's so unlike him?

bulldg4life:GaryPDX:The Dems are the ones who are asserting themselves thus drawing my fire.

Dude...I've never NOT seen you rail on a democrat.

That's a silly statement to make and you know it.

well..I just drilled McCain. Dude..if you haven't figured me out by now, you never will. I HATE CLIQUES! (parties) Our first President warned us about this shiat!!. The Dem's are in majority on this site and quite vocal. I will attack both sides as an American and a Patriot. The minute anyone one of you stops being a "We, the Party" type and more "We, the People" type..you'll understand me much better and I'll lighten up.

Come on..give me a Freeper, I'll tear him a new asshole. Metaphorically speaking.

flavor of the month:GaryPDX:nu huh..MSNBC has him up by 15 or more. That's what their talking heads have been saying for the last two days every farking minute. He's sweeping the country with his awesomeness. MSNBC says so.

if you dont like MSNBC, why are you watching it?

lol..Mika is hot. I mostly watch Morning Joe cause I'm up early.

GAT_00:GaryPDX:The man isn't anything like Bush..nothing.

LOL, ok. Is that why he votes with Bush's opinion 95% of the time, because he's so unlike him?

Just like the Dem Legislature? C'mon.

GaryPDX:flavor of the month:GaryPDX:nu huh..MSNBC has him up by 15 or more. That's what their talking heads have been saying for the last two days every farking minute. He's sweeping the country with his awesomeness. MSNBC says so.

if you dont like MSNBC, why are you watching it?

lol..Mika is hot. I mostly watch Morning Joe cause I'm up early.


mmm. understood. i hear a cat or a lizard barfed on her recently, if your into that kind of thing.

CheddarPants:I've been an Obama supporter since last year, but I am having trouble digesting the whole FISA thing. He still has my vote, though.

In my estimation, McCain is simply unfit for any executive function. I wouldn't hire the man to run a baitshop, much less a country.

Since I voted for Hillary in the primary, I don't have the emo angst that his early believers do...but, unless Obama's car trunk pops open and a dozen dead hookers fall out*, I'll vote for him in November.

*I couldn't vote for a man who can't pack a car trunk correctly.

GaryPDX:Just like the Dem Legislature? C'mon.

I said nothing about them. You said McCain isn't at all like Bush and I'm calling flaming bullshiat.

flavor of the month:GaryPDX: lol..Mika is hot. I mostly watch Morning Joe cause I'm up early.


mmm. understood. i hear a cat or a lizard barfed on her recently, if your into that kind of thing.

It's Mika..who cares..:)

GAT_00:GaryPDX:Just like the Dem Legislature? C'mon.

I said nothing about them. You said McCain isn't at all like Bush and I'm calling flaming bullshiat.

He isn't..he's dancing the jig to woo the Republican base. Trust me, he will piss them off big once in office.

GaryPDX:Dude..if you haven't figured me out by now, you never will

I have figured you out.

However, you do not project yourself the same way that you self-analyze yourself.

I blame the McCain ass-kissing media for this. Obama didn't have a great week, but McCain had a truly disastrous week, but the "liberal media" seems far more forgiving to McCain than Obama.

Wes Clark says that being a POW doesn't automatically qualify a man to be POTUS, as the "liberal media" goes into shiat-storm mode for 4+ days and the McCain campaign rails against Obama for it (15 press releases in 2 days shiatting on Obama for Clark's statement) - McCain's chief economic adviser calls Americans a bunch of whiners, McCain says "he doesn't speak for me" and the media move on...Fiorina says McCain is concerned about the disparity between insurance covering Viagra but not birth control, despite McCain voting against a bill that would require them to do it and it barely gets mentioned...etc.

When Obama or a surrogate does anything mildly questionable, it's news for an entire week...when McCain or his surrogates do the same (or worse), it usually doesn't get mentioned, and if it does, it quickly disappears. Yeah...the "liberal media" really loves Obama.

This McCain BS about using the Steelers roster to deceive his torturers despite saying in his book that he used Green Bay may finally reach the great idiot masses, though.

TheOther:CheddarPants:I've been an Obama supporter since last year, but I am having trouble digesting the whole FISA thing. He still has my vote, though.

In my estimation, McCain is simply unfit for any executive function. I wouldn't hire the man to run a baitshop, much less a country.

I'm with you. I've cooled off quite a bit after this week, but at the same time, McCain just keeps making me hate him more, especially after the Gramm comments. You couldn't get me to vote Republican, and I have severe distrust of the Libertarians so I'm not going there. I'd vote for a Socialist if they manage to get on the ballot, but that's the only thing that would keep me from voting for Obama. Well, that and if he would take Hillary.

GaryPDX:He isn't..he's dancing the jig to woo the Republican base. Trust me, he will piss them off big once in office.

Really? Is that why he's been acting hard-line Republican since 2005, when he wasn't running for office? He is Bush III.

bulldg4life:GaryPDX:Dude..if you haven't figured me out by now, you never will

I have figured you out.

However, you do not project yourself the same way that you self-analyze yourself.

Okay..think about this. Fark is about 10 to 1 Dem ratio. Most of the people here are solidly democrat with hatred toward the rest of Americans (Reps, Independents..etc). This is irresistible to me because it's party based..that's my hot button.

Trust me..coax in a Freeper in my presence sometime and watch me go to town. It's really annoying to me to see Americans fight with each other on a party basis. But the Dem's are all over this place and the Liters think I'm insane..hahaha. I really have a problem with the "We, the Party" shiat and the Dem's are abundant here. A target rich environment.

GAT_00:GaryPDX:He isn't..he's dancing the jig to woo the Republican base. Trust me, he will piss them off big once in office.

Really? Is that why he's been acting hard-line Republican since 2005, when he wasn't running for office? He is Bush III.

see below rant on McCain, the Taco Lover (grin)

GaryPDX:Okay..think about this. Fark is about 10 to 1 Dem ratio. Most of the people here are solidly democrat with hatred toward the rest of Americans (Reps, Independents..etc). This is irresistible to me because it's party based..that's my hot button.

Actually...a majority of Farkers are socially moderate, fiscally conservative independents.

This 10 to 1 Dem ratio is a figment of your very own imagination.

But the Dem's are all over this place and the Liters think I'm insane..hahaha.

They think you are insane because you call anybody that falls even a hair width to the left of Ghengis Khan a commie fascist.

That and the constant railing on anything remotely Obama while all the while proclaiming your diehard hatred of everybody and your staunch independent streak.

HansensDisease:Ewww! He got Neocon on my Independent™.

This is the sort of thing that happens in a mental recession.

Lionel Mandrake:I blame the McCain ass-kissing media for this. Obama didn't have a great week, but McCain had a truly disastrous week, but the "liberal media" seems far more forgiving to McCain than Obama.

Wes Clark says that being a POW doesn't automatically qualify a man to be POTUS, as the "liberal media" goes into shiat-storm mode for 4+ days and the McCain campaign rails against Obama for it (15 press releases in 2 days shiatting on Obama for Clark's statement) - McCain's chief economic adviser calls Americans a bunch of whiners, McCain says "he doesn't speak for me" and the media move on...Fiorina says McCain is concerned about the disparity between insurance covering Viagra but not birth control, despite McCain voting against a bill that would require them to do it and it barely gets mentioned...etc.

When Obama or a surrogate does anything mildly questionable, it's news for an entire week...when McCain or his surrogates do the same (or worse), it usually doesn't get mentioned, and if it does, it quickly disappears. Yeah...the "liberal media" really loves Obama.

This McCain BS about using the Steelers roster to deceive his torturers despite saying in his book that he used Green Bay may finally reach the great idiot masses, though.

I think its because people expect this of McCain. It like reporting that Bush said something stupid. The viewers go 'And? What else?' So they except to McCain to do/say this crap.

But now Obama, the news see ratings in him. People don't know what to expect of him, so they are going on every minute detail that comes across, good, bad or made-up.

bulldg4life:Actually...a majority of Farkers are socially moderate, fiscally conservative independents.

This 10 to 1 Dem ratio is a figment of your very own imagination.

But the Dem's are all over this place and the Liters think I'm insane..hahaha.

They think you are insane because you call anybody that falls even a hair width to the left of Ghengis Khan a commie fascist.

That and the constant railing on anything remotely Obama while all the while proclaiming your diehard hatred of everybody and your staunch independent streak.

This might surprise you. I voted for Gore the first time. I run biodiesel in my truck. I'm developing an import operation to bring in small scale screw presses, agricultural gear, from all corners of the globe, so people can "squish" their own energy needs from plants and make biodiesel. My next house is a hippy "earth ship" off grid. I like wind turbines and loathe the "black crack" and it's 100 year grip on out nation. I smoke pot, I hate badges and snooping and stupid drug laws. I believe in global warming and evolution and myself.

My words here don't match that picture, why?

I don't like parties, I prefer doing for myself and the very last thing I want is the government involved in regulating me, my guns, my health care, my property or anything near me. It makes me feel like my government doesn't trust me to be responsible and that's the key element of being American, my government is supposed to trust me as one of it's valued citizens.

They need to provide a common defense, build farking roads and deliver the mail and otherwise, get the hell out of the way. I don't even want to THINK about trying to tell my sons to "trust the government" with a straight face..I cannot lie to my offspring.

What does that make me?

It makes me a Free American. I will target anyone who wraps themselves in a "party banner" and welcome anyone who see the greater good of independant free thought. I will attack even more so with anyone who wants the government on top of everyone. On the flip side, if someone is being Corporate irresponsible, I will attack them just as readily and aggresively.

/And i don't drink, except tonight, I've indulged in some bourbon..:) so you get to learn something more about me.

GaryPDX:My words here don't match that picture, why?

That's just it. Your words don't match the picture. They don't match it at all.

You call people commies and rail on democrats and take issue with many things that Obama/democrats do. But, in an astounding number of McCain/republican threads...you are oddly silent.

If you railed on everybody indiscriminately...I wouldn't have a problem with it. In fact, there are several ideas that I agree with and would probably benefit our country a great deal.

However, you rail on a certain percentage of the population then play the "I'm an independent and hate everybody" get out of jail free card while ignoring the issues of a different percentage of the population.

It's disingenuous at the core and it makes many of your arguments seem laughable and without worth.

If you were somehow able to not call 90% of the population commies and rail on miniscule things under the guise of having problems with the government, you'd probably be seen as more of a true independent that has issues with the government.

But, then you go in to an Obama thread and make a comment straight out of the repub playbook and all that hope for more reasonable discussion is thrown out the window.

bulldg4life:That's just it. Your words don't match the picture. They don't match it at all.

You call people commies and rail on democrats and take issue with many things that Obama/democrats do. But, in an astounding number of McCain/republican threads...you are oddly silent. If you railed on everybody indiscriminately...I wouldn't have a problem with it. In fact, there are several ideas that I agree with and would probably benefit our country a great deal.

However, you rail on a certain percentage of the population then play the "I'm an independent and hate everybody" get out of jail free card while ignoring the issues of a different percentage of the population.

It's disingenuous at the core and it makes many of your arguments seem laughable and without worth.

If you were somehow able to not call 90% of the population commies and rail on miniscule things under the guise of having problems with the government, you'd probably be seen as more of a true independent that has issues with the government.

But, then you go in to an Obama thread and make a comment straight out of the repub playbook and all that hope for more reasonable discussion is thrown out the window.

Okay..snark elements..to me anything government controlled or "administrated" triggers "commie" snark big time. I want the government to butt the fark out..get the hell out of the way. I've NOT done prosperous and responsible things because local Liberal red tape was too much to bear, or pay for.

This is Fark and I do Snark on anything connected to the government. And BTW, I'm outtie when this one goes public...hahahaha.

I'm somewhat silent right now on McCain because ..well there doesn't seem to be a lot to talk about right now and the spring was all about Hillary and Obama. Just wait..oh gawd..just wait until Immigration comes into play..I'm gonna explode on his ass if he even tries to pitch Amnesty..oh gawd am I sooo locked and loaded on that issue.

Remember..Fark much snark...ya know

Is it possible to "ungreen" a green?

/grin

GaryPDX:Is it possible to "ungreen" a green?

/grin

Did you just get busted outing yourself as a troll? Don't you wish you were traveling?

bulldg4life, one more element. I contract my services. I get "multiple" 1099's NOT one W2. My income comes from about 15 sets of books as a "vendor". I'm self employed and control, and mange, my own destiny including being responsible for paying my own taxes and healthcare insurance on myself and two teenage sons. That's a big difference in freedom than an "employee" of one company, regardless of rank.

GaryPDX:I'm somewhat silent right now on McCain because ..well there doesn't seem to be a lot to talk about right now

In what alternate reality do you live in where there hasn't been stuff to talk about in regards to McCain?

Is this the same alternate reality where he skates on stupid idiotic comments every day?

DaSwankOne:GaryPDX:Is it possible to "ungreen" a green?

/grin

Did you just get busted outing yourself as a troll? Don't you wish you were traveling?

I didn't out anything trollish..I expressed my views as an Independent free thinking American.

GaryPDX:hahaha..You will not find my name on any Republican rosters. The Dems are the ones who are asserting themselves thus drawing my fire. I have ZERO love for McCain because he wants to excuse 25 million foreign fence jumpers. The man isn't anything like Bush..nothing.

GaryPDX:I didn't out anything trollish..I expressed my views as an Independent free thinking American.

Whatever.

bulldg4life:GaryPDX:I'm somewhat silent right now on McCain because ..well there doesn't seem to be a lot to talk about right now

In what alternate reality do you live in where there hasn't been stuff to talk about in regards to McCain?

Is this the same alternate reality where he skates on stupid idiotic comments every day?

Wait until immigration comes up, you and I both know Obama has been the main attention draw. We need to keep sorting BS from actual elements of governing. Right now it's 90% smoke and mirrors on both sides. Summer fun. A lot can happen in 5 months. Besides, my main biatch right now isn't about Obama at all, I'm paying more attention to Darth Pelosi, the silent wicked witch of the west behind the curtains.

/grin

GaryPDX:Fark is about 10 to 1 Dem ratio.

Why do I suddenly think you consider me a Democrat?

GaryPDX:I'm paying more attention to Darth Pelosi, the silent wicked witch of the west behind the curtains.

You never did explain why Bush gets a free ride for tossing 3 trillion but Pelosi is evil for, by your words, taking 1 trillion. I still haven't seen proof of that number.

GaryPDX:Besides, my main biatch right now isn't about Obama at all, I'm paying more attention to Darth Pelosi, the silent wicked witch of the west behind the curtains.

Gary, as I've said before-- I like you. I think you're a good guy and probably a great father.

But you have zero, zero, zero credibility as a voice of anything. You're not independent, you're obsessed-- with "commies" of all things, you don't have a functional understanding of finance or government, and you do preferentially, hugely, massively attack democrats over Republicans, despite the fact that right now, it's very obvious that the Republicans want to bail out Freddie Mac and Mae-- which is literally socialism.

I'll laugh at your jokes, but when you start talking about politics, it's just a draft in the room.

GaryPDX:I didn't out anything trollish..I expressed my views as an Independent free thinking American.\

GaryPDX:I'm paying more attention to Darth Pelosi, the silent wicked witch of the west behind the curtains.

I guess you are just getting tired of this persona. That is cool. I have hung up my alt for a while. I understand.

GaryPDX:bulldg4life:GaryPDX:I'm somewhat silent right now on McCain because ..well there doesn't seem to be a lot to talk about right now

In what alternate reality do you live in where there hasn't been stuff to talk about in regards to McCain?

Is this the same alternate reality where he skates on stupid idiotic comments every day?

Wait until immigration comes up, you and I both know Obama has been the main attention draw. We need to keep sorting BS from actual elements of governing. Right now it's 90% smoke and mirrors on both sides. Summer fun. A lot can happen in 5 months. Besides, my main biatch right now isn't about Obama at all, I'm paying more attention to Darth Pelosi, the silent wicked witch of the west behind the curtains.

/grin

Dude, you don't get a pass out of not appearing in the McCain threads just because they're not about immigration. I've not agreed with Fark Independent^TM labeling for you, but you ARE increasingly starting to be exclusive to Obama threads.

burndtdan:robsul82:I just don't think he made mistakes this week. FISA burns some now, but November brings the prospect of your grandfather nominating Supreme Court Justices. The Iraq thing was media-manufactured horseshiat and I think people are coming down from it.

if FISA burns some now, and the only counter to that fact is that mcmain is worse, that's still not good for obama. it's a negative for him still, and it's apparently all coming together for what looks like a negative swing.

I'll still take "against McCain" votes, and I really do think this election will have an enormous amount of "for Obama" votes, FISA and all. Obama and a Democratic Congress will just let it stand, lock stock and barrel? I don't think so.

GAT_00:GaryPDX:Fark is about 10 to 1 Dem ratio.

Why do I suddenly think you consider me a Democrat?

GaryPDX:I'm paying more attention to Darth Pelosi, the silent wicked witch of the west behind the curtains.

You never did explain why Bush gets a free ride for tossing 3 trillion but Pelosi is evil for, by your words, taking 1 trillion. I still haven't seen proof of that number.

Okay, while we're still backside green. I believe the war in Iraq, while necessary, it was horrendously bungled by Bushco. I could have been properly handled long before now. And now we got 3 other hots spots other than Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran. This global war effort is far from over and democrats love to push the draft.

Obama has no problem waging war in two of those places. If you guys think think Obama's win will end the global war effort, your high. And when the draft comes into play (that's left wing socialist), you're all in for a rude awakening when you get your draft notice.


We won't back down from getting energy..period. No matter who is POTUS. Most of you are gamers..think "tactical" strategy.

/You pulled in the war, I was trying to stay general.