Isn't it only graffiti when someone else does it to your property? Like, against your wishes or while you have little control over the actions of an unknown assailant?

Self pwnage, the new crime. Guess I can't say anything stupidly awkward anymore either.

You know who else liked symbolic imagery?
/RTFA

But seriously, how many fines do they hand out at X-Mas?

It's a far cry from a swastika spray-painted on the garage door.

is the 'asinine' tag on vacation?
no one should have to pay a fee to display anything on their own property unless its sexually explicit or unsanitary.

Appropriate Graffiti

I hope the ninjas in my neighborhood don't have a problem with my Jolly Roger. I'd hate for things to get awkward at my next beer fest.

Solty Dog:I hope the ninjas in my neighborhood don't have a problem with my Jolly Roger. I'd hate for things to get awkward at my next beer fest.

Nice.

The Pagan blogosphere has been watching this one for awhile. Glad to see it seems to have been suitably resolved.

BTW, here is the original story from last month on this. Check out the pics of this guy: Link (new window)

Oh, and the take of a local columnist from Saturday's DM Register: Link (new window)

Yeah, this guy's on disability, but he can do all this.

Why in the hell should anybody have to pay to paint something on their own property? Another sickening case of the govt. screwing people simply because they can.

scollyp wrote:

I don't think someone should be able to paint their fence in a weird way. I would be mad at my neighbor for doing this, and I feel pretty tolerant. Couldn't they just hang a pentagram wind chime or have celtic yard ornaments? Wouldn't having a hand painted plaque give the same protection as painting your fence? What these people don't understand is if you seek people to accept you and understand you, you might not want to be blatantly offending people or doing things that will make them feel upset every time they come home and see what you've painted all over your fence.

It's like painting a house neon pink... it's probably legal, but do you want EVERYONE to hate you? Just be relatively respectful!

From the comments on the article page.

Dear scollyp, your religion and all of its symbols, buildings and acts offend me. Please, if you wish not to be a hypocrite, work to take them all down quickly as possible.

armyofbees:is the 'asinine' tag on vacation?
no one should have to pay a fee to display anything on their own property unless its sexually explicit or unsanitary.

You're going to shiat bricks when you realize what else has changed in the last 20 years.

I`d tell the city to kiss my ass and stay off my property,,one word,, well two words,,,, CASTLE LAW,, come on in and I`ll kill yer ass!

Aulus:Yeah, this guy's on disability, but he can do all this.

Depends what he is on disability for.

I claim automatic win for a Pagan thread with that number of clicks.

/not doctored
//laughed my ass off when I saw that come up

Tell that to the thug wannabes who graffiti feces-shaped writing on the wall.

Des Moines is a very odd town ( I happen to live here) there is a mexican resturant down the street that used to have a painting of a rose on the side of the building it was not graffiti and it was not distasteful but they were required to paint over it beacause it was concidered graffiti .. in just about any other state capital it would be concidered art. If it is done tastefully and is not an eyesore I dont see why he cant paint what ever he wants on his fence ... but if he is just doing it to tick of his 1 neighbor that is just a waste of time and money.

Freedom has a price and it's $35!


Freedom isn't free just think of it? We can start charging for all constitutional rights. The freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, the right to keep and bear arms. We can even charge a fee to keep the government off the backs of those pesky churches.

This is brilliant. First we'll start with the elected officials, then the corporations. Both are going to have to pay BIG time!!!

Somacandra:Depends what he is on disability for.


According to the second link I posted: He's also on disability after suffering a terrible fall while working a construction job.

Seems to me there was a Bill of something that covered this sort of thing.

Con_Authority:Freedom has a price and it's $35!

It was a buck 'o five but with inflation and gas prices it has skyrocketed. Ridiculous really.

Didn't RTFA -> Is the fence right on the property line, or is it completely on his property? If it's right on the line, didn't he paint her side of the wood? Can't she just paint over it? I would just erase it, and then apologize later.

Aulus:BTW, here is the original story from last month on this. Check out the pics of this guy: Link (new window)

Oh, and the take of a local columnist from Saturday's DM Register: Link (new window)

Yeah, this guy's on disability, but he can do all this.

I have a neighbor on disability who put in a new 4-car driveway and tends 50 tomato plants, and mows his own grass. He immigrated from Italy 25 years ago but you still can't understand half of what he says. He also threatened to shoot another of my neighbors, one who is approaching 90 years old.

The American dream.

Lived in DM until two years ago (currently living in BFE Illinois, really hoping to get back soon).

Des Moines has some very weird city ordinances about the size of signs. It is my understanding that this is due to a point in time (early-mid 1900's) when the riverside through downtown was apparently so covered in billboards and other advertising that the river could not be seen from the banks.

During this time, a lot of the sizing ordanances were made specifically to get rid of the detrius along the river. Signs on building tops were OK: this is why the Travellers Bank neon umberella (in the former spot of the neon Mobile Pegasus) and the neon Colonial Is Good Bread Try-It! signs are huge, but within ordinance.

The article specifically says that the trouble is not necessarily that it's grafitti, but that it's too large and doesn't comply with the signage laws. An art installation would comply, but it's unlikely that this would qualify as an art installation due to the fact that I'm pretty sure those have to be applied for and approved beforehand (like that huge mural on the side of a building near Forest Library).

There's a house just a block west of the fairgrounds that has had its picket fence painted to look like crayons since before I was born. I suspect that this isn't within ordinance either, but no one's going to go after it because dude, crayons. Celtic Pagan symbols, though, you can bet someone's going to raise a ruckus eventually. In that town, you can bet it's OK until someone with connections thinks there's a problem. This is especially rampant on the south side, an area where two widely different tax brackets converge. (Most FARK articles about DM site south or south east side locations, this is why.)

HONDOWAYNEI`d tell the city to kiss my ass and stay off my property,,one word,, well two words,,,, CASTLE LAW,, come on in and I`ll kill yer ass!

If it comes down to that & you are a specific target I'm afraid you wouldn't have the chance. Their guns are big and plenty.

Now I'm confused. Is the issue that it is a) pagan symbols or b) that it is painted on a fence?

In other words, if the guy painted the same symbols on his house wall, would he still have to pay the $35? Because if not, why not just paint them on the wall? Or, if they have to be on a fence, why not just build a second fence inside the disputed fence, i.e., definitively on his own property, and paint the symbols on that?

Gyrfalcon:Now I'm confused. Is the issue that it is a) pagan symbols or b) that it is painted on a fence?

The real issue is the symbols, the cover up is the fence. If like when the city wants to shut down a strip club. They find some obscure ordinance in some dusty book that says, they have to have one parking space for every four patrons. No one cares about the parking, they just want to shut that nasty ol' nudie bar down.

/Pours out a 40 for The Boxcar.
//Was a Yuengling, won't be missed.

"They were not reacting to the symbology of the fence," he said. 'It's not within our area of authority.'"

Ok, there, Detective Nikepopiskalious, I think the word you were looking for is symbolism. Sssssymbolism.

/Wants cream cheese on his onion bagel.
//Knows nothing is obscure on Fark.

This is why I like the country. I don't need a bunch of retarded farksticks peeing their pants every time I have a non-regulation petunia in my yard or some other made up busy body bullshiat.

Okay, I am a pagan, and if it were me, I'd take the fight to the state level if I had to. Why? The loud mouth christians who put signs over their fences with biblical verses, did they have to pay a fine? Odds are no, because they were a 'mainstream' religion, they get a free ride. You have to treat all religions the same in this country, it's part of that 'Freedom of Religion' thing we have here. And it's 'Freedom of Religion', not 'Freedom of Religion, as long as you're a Christian'.

Now me, I know that there are alot of asshole christians out there who feel the need to vandalize the property of anyone displaying a belief that isn't Christian (not all are like this, but those bastards are out there) in the hopes that keying your car if you have a pro-pagan or pro-evolution bumper sticker on your car will remind you that Jesus saves and the only path is as a Christian, or that egging your house will teach you that you need to end your evil pagan ways and join their holy and just Christian cause. For those reasons I don't display pagan bumper stickers, I will never post pagan symbols on my fence to display to my neighbors. But I do have pagan tattoos, so if any Christian feels the need to convert me to "The true path" they can do it to my face and not by keying my car onaibung my front door.

FTFA: He said the symbols - a bull that represents food blessings; letters of ancient Germanic alphabet that mean good health, protection and larger perspective; a pentagram; and other Celtic symbols - are meant to protect the home and to ward off evil.


Or ... Maybe the symbols are meant to keep the evil in!

Everybody panic!!

onaibung?

Is this a pagan thing?

Solty Dog:Gyrfalcon:Now I'm confused. Is the issue that it is a) pagan symbols or b) that it is painted on a fence?

The real issue is the symbols, the cover up is the fence.

Exactly. The fence probably wouldn't be an issue if it was anything else (as I mentioned, crayon fence), but, someone complained, someone else did some digging and found a leg to stand on.

Like I pointed out before about sign size being the way signs are dealt with in the city, the location of the fence doesn't make any difference- he could've painted it on his garage door and ended up in the same situation. It has everything to do with square footage. Apparently (the article says) it may be 6'X6' of painting, in which case, that's too big. On a privacy fence, then, all it has to be is a square the heighth of the fence.

If the guy can prove that it's all small enough to fall outside of jurisdiction, it should be allowed to stay. If I were him, I'd repaint within requirements.

Rohasman:"They were not reacting to the symbology of the fence," he said. 'It's not within our area of authority.'"

Ok, there, Detective Nikepopiskalious, I think the word you were looking for is symbolism. Sssssymbolism.

/Wants cream cheese on his onion bagel.
//Knows nothing is obscure on Fark.



ask and ye shall receive

This is sooo much bullshiat.

For starters, what the hell kinda place has laws about the signs you can put up on your own property?? If you own it, you can put up what the hell you like (providing it's not gonna break the Obscene Publications Act, so gootse's probably out) here in Scotland.

Secondly, ok, so you have a rule about signage; I can kinda see the logic of this in a commercial property sense (although I don't agree with it 100%), e.g, to stop funeral directors having 200 foot billboards outside cemeteries. But since when should that apply to protective symbols on the inside of someones garden fence.
I'm guessing this is on the inside of the fence.

It should be. I can probably even make a fair guess at what symbols they're using, since I have the same symbols dotted around the house on the exterior four walls; usually a pentacle (not a pentagram usually; guessing the journalists are pig-ignorant and don't know the difference), sometimes with the gardnerian 1st degree symbols in it for extra protection (I'd note that gardnerians didn't come up with it, they just use it for the 1st degree initiates). Then I'm guessing Thurisaz (for basic Defence against the Dark Arts. Love that phrase :D), Kenaz to banish the evil, and Hagalaz, to protect the home.
Of course, all of the runes used are subject to different interpretation and they could go with something totally different.
Thor's Hammer usually is a good defence symbol to have around. Although why someone would be calling the defence of Thor, when they're already using a pentacle I don't know. Then again, yanks often seem to blend different pantheons together.

Then your celtic symbols...they get a little trickier. If they're up on their lore, and are genuinely following the path, I'm guessing some trisecles, some knotwork dogs (red, obviously). What else I'm not too sure on, it's a bit beyond my ken.

These should be on all 4 boundaries around the house, with salt ritually scattered on all the entrances and exits, and a rose quartz left inside every door.
Least, I'm just guessing.

Either way, the Cult-Of-The-Dead-Jew people can go get knotted. They don't tend to do that shiat in Scotland, but I've seen them in America, with their huge crosses, and their "God Bless America" crap. We don't say they can't have them. So why can't this nice Goddess-Invoking Pagan couple have their pentacles and circles. Ain't like it's hurting anyone.

Wizard Drongo

See, this is why, back in my geek days (okay, a couple of days ago) I always prefered to play a warrior. It's much simpler to bash shiat.

Wizard Drongo:

Here's my question, do the protective images have to be giant sized? Six square feet of runic designs, like the article suggests, are a lot of runes.

The way I look at it, I'd really prefer it if my neighbors didn't have life sized six foot paintings of Crucified Jesus all over the fence either. Because you know there's someone out there waiting to do it.

I'm just asking, since you seem to know, whether bigger means more protection? Otherwise, I don't see a reason they can't take 'em down to five foot eleven square feet. Within the limit, but big enough to piss off the neighborhood if that's what they want to do.

Almost want to call my brother and ask him to drive by this place and get some pictures, since the article doesn't bother to supply them.

Wizard Drongo: As has been repeatedly stated in the thread, the issue isn't what the symbols are. Sure, the complaint probably originated from intolerant cockbags, but the reason the city has a problem is that Mr. Pagan got a little bit carried away, like 6'+ carried away. If he's not opposed to redoing the paintings (and aren't you supposed to re-up all but the most permanent protective wards on a regular basis anyways), this will quickly become a non-issue. Besides, if he's even a halfway-decent artist, this might drum him up some side business. I know my cousin-in-law would pay a premium for wall-sized Celtic pagan art.

Danger Avoid Death:Wizard Drongo

See, this is why, back in my geek days (okay, a couple of days ago) I always prefered to play a warrior. It's much simpler to bash shiat.

WINNAR

Danger Avoid Death:Wizard Drongo

See, this is why, back in my geek days (okay, a couple of days ago) I always prefered to play a warrior. It's much simpler to bash shiat.

Thread over. Y'all can go home now.

zephyrkate:Wizard Drongo:

Here's my question, do the protective images have to be giant sized? Six square feet of runic designs, like the article suggests, are a lot of runes.

No, they don't have to be huge. That's mostly aesthetics, although I personally can't see the problem with 6-foot Cŵn Annwn, but I can understand why others might. They have to be visible. Ad you have to put them there ritually; just spray-painting them on won't do the job. The symbols themselves don't do anything. What pagans believe is that the symbol will act as a kind of physical manifestation of the ritual in which they were placed, a kind of magickal video-clip. In and of themselves the symbols are just lines. It's only in conjunction with the ritual they retain power. So yeah, 3 inch ones would be fine. Although some say the bigger symbols are more capable of retaining the energy, I don't. It's what you do with it that counts, not the size. Penis.


Occam's Chainsaw:Wizard Drongo: As has been repeatedly stated in the thread, the issue isn't what the symbols are. Sure, the complaint probably originated from intolerant cockbags, but the reason the city has a problem is that Mr. Pagan got a little bit carried away, like 6'+ carried away. If he's not opposed to redoing the paintings (and aren't you supposed to re-up all but the most permanent protective wards on a regular basis anyways), this will quickly become a non-issue. Besides, if he's even a halfway-decent artist, this might drum him up some side business. I know my cousin-in-law would pay a premium for wall-sized Celtic pagan art.


True. Make 'em smaller.
Kinda depends though. Are the designs six foot because each rune is like 3 foot high? Or are they six-foot because the couple have written out every single runesaga in painted runes (which would be a damn large amount), or a veritable tome on runic defence, invoking all the norse Gods to come and pwn anyone who farks with them! If it's the former, they're just being pretentious "Look at us, we're Pagan, and there's nothing you can do". If the latter, they're dedicated, I'll give 'em that. But maybe scale things back a bit.

You get people like this in any faith. Whilst I fully support their right to have whatever they want on their fence, being showy for the sake of being showy is a bit dumb. I am Pagan. I'll not deny it, nor go out of my way to change anything just cause some bible-bashing fundie gets their rosemary in a twist.

Doesn't mean I'm gonna bedaub our flat in 10-foot high runic symbols you can see from half a mile away that glow in the dark and have naked pagan orgies every full-moon in the communal yard.

Chance would be a fine thing, but the runes'd get me evicted (can have what you like on the inside, nothing on the outside) and finding naked pagans to have orgies with in Scotland, even in summer is hard. Believe me I've tried. Not to mention most Pagans we know are in their 40's and have prestigious face hair. And that's the ladies!!

Wizard Drongo:You get people like this in any faith. Whilst I fully support their right to have whatever they want on their fence, being showy for the sake of being showy is a bit dumb. I am Pagan. I'll not deny it, nor go out of my way to change anything just cause some bible-bashing fundie gets their rosemary in a twist.

Doesn't mean I'm gonna bedaub our flat in 10-foot high runic symbols you can see from half a mile away that glow in the dark and have naked pagan orgies every full-moon in the communal yard.

Chance would be a fine thing, but the runes'd get me evicted (can have what you like on the inside, nothing on the outside) and finding naked pagans to have orgies with in Scotland, even in summer is hard. Believe me I've tried. Not to mention most Pagans we know are in their 40's and have prestigious face hair. And that's the ladies!!

Visit lovely Asheville, NC. Can't swing a protection talisman without hitting a pagan, most are pretty receptive to the naked frolicking (and the occasional orgy), and some of the women don't have beards!

Wonder what the rest of the symbols are...I see two Norse runes and a pentacle. I bet if he had stuck to the runes, nothing would have been said. The only Celtic symbology I saw was on his face (not sure of the origin of the pentacle). Also, they do kinda look like graffiti sprayed on by vandals...not religious symbols.

Wizard Drongo:Then your celtic symbols...they get a little trickier. If they're up on their lore, and are genuinely following the path, I'm guessing some trisecles, some knotwork dogs (red, obviously). What else I'm not too sure on, it's a bit beyond my ken.

Maybe they have this sort of Celtic symbol:

Its his property, he should be able to paint whatever the hell he wants on it.

Pagans have never started any wars due to their beliefs.

'nuff

If I lived across the street from those freaks and I had to look at that bullshiat all day, I'd probably complain ,too. I mean, sure, I may string up Christmas lights in December, but I take them down.

"Daddy? What do those symbols on that fence mean?"
"They mean someone got picked on a little too much in high school."

I bet they'd be fun to play D&D with, though, and after they got some mead in 'em at the renfest, they'd probably be awesomely fun there, too.

I wonder if the resident moon priestess goes barefoot - or shaves her underarms.

Occam's Chainsaw
Visit lovely Asheville, NC. Can't swing a protection talisman without hitting a pagan, most are pretty receptive to the naked frolicking (and the occasional orgy), and some of the women don't have beards!

They do have stirrup pants and Stevie Nicks hair, though. At least, the pagan officiant who oversaw our non-religious wedding vows in Asheville did. To say that her outfit was a tad too informal for the ceremony is an understatement, but any pentacles or runes she was wearing on her person were well-concealed, so my Bible Belt family didn't have a heart attack.

/loves me some Asheville
//can't wait to go back

Since this is the south side of Des Moines are they also going to charge every Italian (and Hispanic) family that has an old fashion bathtub burried in thier front yard with a virgin mary statue in it $35 each?

/That would help the city budget greatly!

Aulus:According to the second link I posted: He's also on disability after suffering a terrible fall while working a construction job.

I know. Depends on what happened to him because of the fall. That's my point. His arms are probably fine, as he tried to make nice with his nosey neighbor. "I tried making concessions," MacPebbles said. "I washed her windows when she had carpal tunnel.".

fark the gov't thieves. Americans need to stand up and tell assholes on city councils to go fark themselves.

I thought the American dream was to own a home? I would assume that "own" means you can do what you like with it.
Well, not in this "land of the free" you sure as hell aren't.