FTFA "They did the same thing last year when he mentioned the plan at their meeting in Philadelphia. Obama addressed the group Saturday via satellite."

Yeah, that's quite a slide there, subby.


MOST (but not all) of the criticism Obama is getting for shifting to the middle comes from people who never listened in the first place or who are simply distorting the past to score political points.

"He never says anything but hope and change!"

"Omg, he's shifted his positions!!!"

You can't say both, retards.

I'd be much more interested in hearing his explanation of why the President should have any say over how much state employees are paid.

Churchill2004:why the President should have any say over how much state employees are paid.

or in the case of my state, local employees

it's all blather, election-year blather

Atillathepun:"He never says anything but hope and change!"

"Omg, he's shifted his positions!!!"

You can't say both, retards.

An astute observation.

Churchill2004:I'd be much more interested in hearing his explanation of why the President should have any say over how much state employees are paid.

Presidents shouldn't be allowed to advocate an idea?

Churchill2004:I'd be much more interested in hearing his explanation of why the President should have any say over how much state employees are paid.

I would assume that he believes it's because the feds make us give their worthless NCLB-mandated tests and then tie federal funding to the results.

Regardless, merit pay is an excellent policy when it's accompanied by valid assessment criteria.

Echoic:Churchill2004:I'd be much more interested in hearing his explanation of why the President should have any say over how much state employees are paid.

Presidents shouldn't be allowed to advocate an idea?

He's not just talking about an idea, he's talking about legislation.

kaminariko:Regardless, merit pay is an excellent policy when it's accompanied by valid assessment criteria.

Not when it's

-UnConstitutional
-An usurpation of state authority
-Funded by debt
-Funded by taxes

WHARRGARBL

Paulistinian:Not when it's

-UnConstitutional
-An usurpation of state authority
-Funded by debt
-Funded by taxes

Of course. Absolutely.

/You know, I live in Ron Paul's district here in Texas.

Paulistinian:-UnConstitutional
-An usurpation of state authority
-Funded by debt
-Funded by taxes

Humor me: how is it unconstitutional and/or a usurpation of state authority? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just don't know your argument.

Paulistinian:kaminariko:Regardless, merit pay is an excellent policy when it's accompanied by valid assessment criteria.

Not when it's

-UnConstitutional
-An usurpation of state authority
-Funded by debt
-Funded by taxes

well... since the Dept. of Education continues to exist, and won't be undone by an act of president (any president, even one that wants to get rid of it), why not use the moneys it allocates for something not crappy. If the states don't like to idea, they can reject the money.

So, different people in the Democratic Party have different ideals on how to run things? How is this news? Oh, right, somebody didn't like something Obama said, so he clearly can't be president, and we MUST vote for the guy who is sliding in the polls every day and wants to give us 4 more years of the worst president in history.

The stink of desperation is overwhelming. Obama is pandering to the left! Obama is pandering to the center! I expect to see in a few days that he's pandering to the right. Wait, nevermind, the WSJ already took care of that one.

GAT_00:The stink of desperation is overwhelming. Obama is pandering to the left! Obama is pandering to the center! I expect to see in a few days that he's pandering to the right. Wait, nevermind, the WSJ already took care of that one.

Actually, next he'll be pandering to the charm followed by the strange.

hasn't he been talking about merit pay for teachers since he started the campaign?

clgrin:well... since the Dept. of Education continues to exist, and won't be undone by an act of president (any president, even one that wants to get rid of it), why not use the moneys it allocates for something not crappy. If the states don't like to idea, they can reject the money.

because that would be applying your ideology to the realities that exist, and that's nowhere near as fun as ignoring reality and insisting your full ideology be implemented blindly.

if you're gonna start applying your ideology to reality to shape it in positive ways, you might actually start moving forward in this country and accomplishing things, and THAT JUST CAN'T HAPPEN!

Imagine a large teapot....then imagine a large tempest...

This is THAT

I'm a NEA & AFT member (worth it for the insurance protection alone!) and I have no problem with merit pay as long as the standards for merit pay are fair, understandable, and not based solely on standardized test scores or principal referrals.

I teach poor kids by choice. I think those of us who choose the more difficult assignments should be paid an extra stipend for doing so (that would include math, science, and special ed.) Really, all it would do is refund the money I end up spending out of my own pocket on school supplies for my kiddos. Then add merit pay from there.

Churchill2004:He's not just talking about an idea, he's talking about legislation.

Can the president pass legislation?

cue Fark Independents^TM claiming Obama never tells anyone something they don't want to hear.

In a related story, Obama is almost certain to win the Presidency, eliciting booze from Republicans.

burndtdan:hasn't he been talking about merit pay for teachers since he started the campaign?

I'm pretty sure I recall that in his book....

Atillathepun:In a related story, Obama is almost certain to win the Presidency, eliciting booze from Republicans.

hahaha booze. I like booze.

I'm pretty sure this is consistent with what he's been saying all along, but nice try subby.

This is not news, he has always said this. It's one of the biggest reasons why I'm voting for him.

/not a teacher

Sounds like he changed his mind again.

Atillathepun:In a related story, Obama is almost certain to win the Presidency, eliciting booze from Republicans.



What you did there. I see it.

in theory, i have no problem with this.

but how about we start with merit pay for Fortune 500 CEO's first?
Country tanks? Guess what. YOU GET NOTHING.

SilentStrider:Country tanks?

that was supposed to say "company", but i guess country works too.

He used to focus extensively on hope, but now he emphasizes change.

grapefruitgal:I think those of us who choose the more difficult assignments should be paid an extra stipend for doing so (that would include math, science, and special ed.)

I think we should also add English teachers to that list of "difficult assignments". I consider it difficult when my sophomores have a second grade reading level. I consider it difficult when my sophomores cannot write a coherent sentence that has proper subject-verb agreement and is free from slang. I consider it difficult that a third of my sophomores do not know how to read.

I understand they want kids to be able to compete in math and science. But it does them no good if they can't read what's in front of them or write something to defend their hypothesis. I think it's sick that we've become so one-track-mind with math and science.

Anyway, that's my rant. I teach in a very low-income urban district as well. I love my kids. They work so hard on those standardized tests and are crushed when they don't pass.

Atillathepun:You can't say both, retards.

Oh, I bet they can

burndtdan:hasn't he been talking about merit pay for teachers since he started the campaign?

stop trying to bring facts into this.

Bucky Katt:burndtdan:hasn't he been talking about merit pay for teachers since he started the campaign?

stop trying to bring facts into this.

It does lack a certain truthiness.

lantawa:Imagine a large teapot....then imagine a large tempest...

This is THAT

But how can this be that? This is this and that is that. I thought we all understood english, right? Damnit. My head hurts.

Descartes:Sounds like he changed his mind again.

FTFA: "They did the same thing last year when he mentioned the plan at their meeting in Philadelphia. Obama addressed the group Saturday via satellite."

Apparently you didn't read the article nor did you read the Fark comments. FAILURE!!!

mattharvest:Paulistinian:-UnConstitutional
-An usurpation of state authority
-Funded by debt
-Funded by taxes

Humor me: how is it unconstitutional and/or a usurpation of state authority? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just don't know your argument.

Its not. It just sounded like a neat thing to say.

First he's talking about this from before his campaign even started, now it's a brand new positions! Make up up your mind, Barack Hussein Obama!

/What the hell is wrong with this guy?

mcwebe0:GAT_00:The stink of desperation is overwhelming. Obama is pandering to the left! Obama is pandering to the center! I expect to see in a few days that he's pandering to the right. Wait, nevermind, the WSJ already took care of that one.

Actually, next he'll be pandering to the charm followed by the strange.

I lol'd

mattharvest:Humor me: how is it unconstitutional and/or a usurpation of state authority? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just don't know your argument

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

randomjsa:mattharvest:Humor me: how is it unconstitutional and/or a usurpation of state authority? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just don't know your argument

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

True. So the Federal government should be denied the ability to put money into the hands of the states?

mcwebe0
But things will only really get interesting once he starts in on truth and beauty.

randomjsa:The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

So, you don't have an answer?

It should be fairly simple for you to identify how this is outside the federal powers if you're correct. From my cursory view, it seems pretty clearly within the Tax and Spend/Commerce clauses, but hey, I'm just a lawyer. I'm more than happy for you to explain how it's not a valid exercise of federal power.

tudorgurl:I think it's sick that we've become so one-track-mind with math and science.

Ewww, science is hard.

Your state's situation may be different, but the curriculum sprawl that has taken place over the years in New York is insane. Up pops a real or imagined social ill, and right behind it is an advocacy group agitating (and litigating) for it to be shoehorned into the curriculum...everything from global warming to abstinence only, even though that often means less time for the chemistry and biology instruction necessary for background on those subjects.

Students in New York are now required to take a foreign language regardless of whether that fits their interests or talents - and so you get French classes full of students who don't want to be there and would rather be at BOCES working on engines. Teachers love this.

Maybe we could start offering merit pay to dentists when their patients start getting fewer cavities, or to prison wardens when the prisoners ease up on the shankings.

Or maybe merit pay to parents for spending some time with their offspring.

/teacher
//endures the summertime laments of "Why can't their be school year round?"
///YOU deal with your kids and see if you can get them to behave better than I can

Gulper Eel:Students in New York are now required to take a foreign language regardless of whether that fits their interests or talents - and so you get French classes full of students who don't want to be there and would rather be at BOCES working on engines. Teachers love this.

Actually, you've hit a bad example there: we're the only country in the First World that is predominately monolingual. Every other country is replete with people who are at least bilingual if not polyglots. It's an embarrassment that Americans are so bad at language skills.

Greater language skills increase basically every collateral skill you can identify: they increase your vocabulary skill (i.e. speed and accuracy of recall), your creativity (by building new connections between ideas in your brain), your reasoning skills (translation exercise, etc.), etc.

Atillathepun:FTFA "They did the same thing last year when he mentioned the plan at their meeting in Philadelphia. Obama addressed the group Saturday via satellite."

Yeah, that's quite a slide there, subby.

That's what stood out to me, too; can it really be a "slide" of his position if said position has been the same for a year?

Mandapants:Maybe we could start offering merit pay to dentists when their patients start getting fewer cavities, or to prison wardens when the prisoners ease up on the shankings.

Or maybe merit pay to parents for spending some time with their offspring.

/teacher

That already exists. If a dentist does a good job he gets return business, if he does poorly he suffers and goes broke. Same goes for most every other profession. If you do a poor job, in many districts, you keep your job and have no incentive to do better.

/You can't both say you want higher pay to attract better teachers and also do nothing about your lousy teachers just because they are in the union.

He mentions merit pay for teachers in The Audacity of Hope. It's one of the areas of policy I disagree with him on. That being said, I'll still vote for him.

josephstalin:He used to focus extensively on hope, but now he emphasizes change.

It's almost as if he's been involved in two contests recently. Hmmmm.

tudorgurl
grapefruitgal:I think those of us who choose the more difficult assignments should be paid an extra stipend for doing so (that would include math, science, and special ed.)

I understand they want kids to be able to compete in math and science. But it does them no good if they can't read what's in front of them or write something to defend their hypothesis. I think it's sick that we've become so one-track-mind with math and science.

Oh, I certainly didn't mean English wasn't important! I was just talking about hard-to-staff positions. Since you already teach the older version of my kiddos, you'd qualify under my plan. :)