FTA:

Looks like one Democratic congressman, trying to highlight his appeal in a red district, took the metaphor a bit too far.

That's some funny, there.

He isn't even holding his hand over his heart.

And no flag pin!

Some smart person should invent a way for images to be shown on the internet. And maybe, in the distant future, we could have some sort of machine which "scans" pictures into a "digital" format. And then we could show these "scanned" photos on the information superhighway!

I know, I'm crazy.

an elderly Soviet veteran wearing the Order of the Patriotic War

So he was fighting Nazis...and the neocons and Republicans object to that?

TheOther:

He was fighting *for* a regime essentially the same as the Nazis, except far more destructive. So yes, it might make some sense to object to that.

NRCC spokesman Ken Spain called the mailer "a stunning indictment of Mahoney's utter lack of knowledge concerning veterans' issues,"..."Is Tim Mahoney's commitment to our veterans so shallow and superficial that he can't even tell the difference between an American veteran and one who fought for Communism in Josef Stalin's Red Army?"

Ken Spain is a concern troll.

This guy is a bonehead with a bad press staff, but I don't really think it calls his commitment to veterans into question. You overreached, NRCC; you should be making fun, not outraged.

Capitalist1:TheOther:

He was fighting *for* a regime essentially the same as the Nazis, except far more destructive. So yes, it might make some sense to object to that.

Yeah, he should have just stood back and let the Nazis win...of course, dann konnten wir dieses auf Deutsch schreiben.

The "Great Patriotic War" in Soviet parlance is the war they fought against the Nazis. So, yeah, they were sort of our Allies back then. The whole big three thing, you know, Casablanca and all those other conferences. Granted, this was almost certainly a farkup by the Congressman in question, but let's not pretend he was honoring some decorated Cold Warrior, either.

"Is Tim Mahoney's commitment to our veterans so shallow and superficial that he can't even tell the difference between an American veteran and one who fought for Communism in Josef Stalin's Red Army?"

were they really fighting for communism? were we fighting for capitalism?

So, did this guy help Obama's Uncle liberate Auschwitz?

remember, Mahoney is the guy who only won because Mark Foley was flirting with young boys (and Mahoney barely defeated Foley too. Foley's name was on the ballot and votes were for his replacement, and Mahoney still barely won)

So basically Mahoney is only in DC through a massive fluke.

A veteran isn't less worthy of respect simply because he was from another army.

SchlingFo:

A veteran isn't less worthy of respect simply because he was from another army.



/ especially when he can play a mean "Orange Blossom Special"

TheOther:dann konnten wir dieses auf Deutsch schreiben.

All is klar, herr Kommissar.

If it weren't for the Russian army, the Allies would have been fukked in WWII.

Watchman:Whale pic

*attnt* Watchman: You're needed in the "should I read Practical Demonkeeping" thread Link (new window)

Yet another example of idiots who can cite history to bash their enemies, but have absolutely no understanding of it.

If you think American veterans from the European theater in WWII are deserving of respect (which they are), you should really be in awe of someone who not only survived the Eastern Front, but was decorated with one of the highest honors in the Soviet military.

Oh, and a quick history lesson: Soviets fighting on the Eastern front were fighting an enemy that actually invaded their country, a concept pretty foreign to us Americans. The German army was a stone's throw from their capital. German troops were responsible for a large number of heinous acts committed against Russian civilians. So you can be pretty assured that most people in th Soviet army were fighting to repel people who had come into their homeland to kill them, not the abstract ideal of communism.

Unless the guy is personally responsible for war crimes, all soldiers who have the guts to pick up a gun and fight are deserving of respect. They have as much to do with the formulation of national policy and ideaology as a person posting on Fark. Don't be an asshat.

Even if the government directing the effort is just as brutal and oppressive as the invaders, I can't fault any one who answered the call to arms to defend his home and loved ones against a foreign army.

Churchill2004:I can't fault any one who answered the call to arms to defend his home and loved ones against a foreign army.

This. As long as he wasn't a commissar.

Cagey B:Soviets fighting on the Eastern front were fighting an enemy that actually invaded their country, a concept pretty foreign to us Americans.

You are forgetting about the Japanese invading the Aleutian Islands in Alaska and some of our territories and protectorates. I get your point though.

BigDumbGuy:You are forgetting about the Japanese invading the Aleutian Islands in Alaska and some of our territories and protectorates. I get your point though.

Right. Because the Japanese invading two remote Aluetian islands back when Alaska wasn't even a state rattled the average American to his very core.

The Soviets defeated Hitler.

America, and the threat of a Western (or southern) invasion of Europe helped, but the fkn Soviets get the overwhelming credit for crushing Hitler.

I tip my hat to (most) survivors of Stalin's army.

So, people who criticize this guy's respect of a Soviet soldier should STFU and read a goddam history book...you fkn morans.

Lionel Mandrake:So, people who criticize this guy's respect of a Soviet soldier should STFU and read a goddam history book...you fkn morans.

The congressman admits he made a mistake in including the image of the Red Army veteran.

I mean, I understand how people might consider his experience to be laudatory and all, but c'mon. The representative was clearly trying to indicate he supported American vets, since it was in a mailer titled "Honoring Those Who Defend Our Freedom".

Cagey B:Yet another example of idiots who can cite history to bash their enemies, but have absolutely no understanding of it.

Yes and it was Operation Bagration which arguably defeated Germany, and the invasion in the west just pushed over a tree that was already falling, faster.

Because millions of Soviet soldiers served bravely for purely patriotic reasons is without doubt. However, that many of their veterans also deserve respect as guys who picked up a rifle and went into harm's way to save their country just like our guys was not the point of the mailer.

A mailer with the title "Honoring Those Who Defend Our Freedom" is clearly meant to speak of US military veterans, not all veterans around the world who have fought the good fight. Further, anyone who does in fact know their ass from a hole in the ground about military matters would have instantly pegged that photo as mostly like ex-Red Army, or at least somewhere in Eastern Europe. Our medals look nothing like those, and we don't hand out giant sand-dollar sized medals for going 6 months without accidentally shooting yourself, as the Red Army did, resulting in innumerable Soviet veterans whose chests are covered with 6 zillion medals. And our guys wear medals with a uniform, not on their sports jacket, as is the practice in Eastern Europe.

So the use of that photo is dead nuts proof that the guy either has absolutely zero clue about our own military, or is incompetent enough to let mailers about damned important subjects go out without proofing them, or both. Either way, the guy is a douchenozzle who is pandering or is a dumbass, and deserves all the bashing he's going to receive. And that's speaking as someone who at this point couldn't get less fond of anything GOP.

Skleenar:The congressman admits he made a mistake in including the image of the Red Army veteran.

Yup...you're right. Given Americans' disgusting lack of historical knowledge, it is definitely a (political) mistake to give (proper) credit to Soviet soldiers.

Lionel Mandrake:Yup...you're right. Given Americans' disgusting lack of historical knowledge, it is definitely a (political) mistake to give (proper) credit to Soviet soldiers.

Can't we just agree that Red Army soldiers were involved in some heroic shiat in WWII and that this particular use of an image was a mistake given the context of the message the Congressman was trying to make?

moar funny pictures

Skleenar:Can't we just agree that Red Army soldiers were involved in some heroic shiat in WWII and that this particular use of an image was a mistake given the context of the message the Congressman was trying to make?

Absolutely.

/sorry, shortly after 9/11, I tried to convince a particularly "patriotic" classroom of college freshmen that the USA did NOT in fact single-handedly defeat the Nazis in Europe. It was a traumatic experience...I still get flashbacks.

With all the secret torturing, shipping *suspected* terrorists to gulags secret prison camps and prison ships, and the government desperately trying to control the media, it must feel just like home to someone from Stalin's Russia.

/first time really trolling
//Am i doin it rite?

I honor the service of the Red Army veterans of WWII. Anyone who doesn't is a farkin Nazi dick-smoker.

Soldiers almost never get to choose the causes or governments for which they fight and die. In the rare instances that they do, they are just mercenaries.

McCainDemocrat:

I'm confused, I thought you were a Democrat who was opposed to Obama. Why are you attacking this Democratic congressman, who actually lobbied the DNC to have Florida reinstated the way Hillary wanted it and still hasn't endorsed Obama?

/Try harder.

PopeSkeletor:McCainDemocrat:

I'm confused, I thought you were a Democrat who was opposed to Obama. Why are you attacking this Democratic congressman, who actually lobbied the DNC to have Florida reinstated the way Hillary wanted it and still hasn't endorsed Obama?

/Try harder.

McCD will just say that he didnt say it--that it was danlpoon.

/McCD needs his meds
//and his blankie

Skleenar:Can't we just agree that Red Army soldiers were involved in some heroic shiat in WWII and that this particular use of an image was a mistake given the context of the message the Congressman was trying to make?

No. SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME THE ONLY HONORABLE AND RESPECTABLE SOLDIERS HAVE BEEN AMERICAN REPUBLICANS GODDAMNIT!

LordJiro:With all the secret torturing, shipping *suspected* terrorists to gulags secret prison camps and prison ships, and the government desperately trying to control the media, it must feel just like home to someone from Stalin's Russia.

/first time really trolling
//Am i doin it rite?

More like sarcasm.

Well, at least he didn't commemorate German WWII soldiers, like St. Ronald Reagan did at Bitburg.

especially when he can play a mean "Orange Blossom Special"

I'd like to hear him play "Foggy Mountain Breakdown" !

23+ million Soviets died in WWII, about 14% of the country's population. The German army almost took their capitol city.

Anyone who lived through that (without committing war crimes) should never have to pay for his own beer.

Skleenar:He isn't even holding his hand over his heart.

And no flag pin!

If you have that many medals you can do damn well what you please

So... what's the story on this former Red soldier?

Did he fight the Nazis and fled to freedom when the commies showed their true colours?

Or did he torture American POWs in Hanoi Hilton?

Or is he just some old guy who found a bunch of medals and wanted to get noticed?

Cagey B:Yet another example of idiots who can cite history to bash their enemies, but have absolutely no understanding of it.

If you think American veterans from the European theater in WWII are deserving of respect (which they are), you should really be in awe of someone who not only survived the Eastern Front, but was decorated with one of the highest honors in the Soviet military.

Oh, and a quick history lesson: Soviets fighting on the Eastern front were fighting an enemy that actually invaded their country, a concept pretty foreign to us Americans. The German army was a stone's throw from their capital. German troops were responsible for a large number of heinous acts committed against Russian civilians. So you can be pretty assured that most people in th Soviet army were fighting to repel people who had come into their homeland to kill them, not the abstract ideal of communism.

Unless the guy is personally responsible for war crimes, all soldiers who have the guts to pick up a gun and fight are deserving of respect. They have as much to do with the formulation of national policy and ideaology as a person posting on Fark. Don't be an asshat.

some of the worst battles in europe in WWII were on the eastern front. what the russians endured and overcame was a miracle of determination. stalingrad was one of the main reasons hitler lost.

the russians are amazing people, i wish the u.s. was on better terms with them today.

Capitalist1:TheOther:

He was fighting *for* a regime essentially the same as the Nazis, except far more destructive. So yes, it might make some sense to object to that.

Uh, they were are allies in WWII and we wouldn't have won without them.

PopeSkeletor:McCainDemocrat:

I'm confused, I thought you were a Democrat who was opposed to Obama. Why are you attacking this Democratic congressman, who actually lobbied the DNC to have Florida reinstated the way Hillary wanted it and still hasn't endorsed Obama?

/Try harder.

Because he is a lying sack of ass?

Remember back when the "he's an appeaser" meme was fresh. Back when anyone pointing out that FDR and Truman dealt diplomatically with the USSR instead of just nuking them was met with howls of "The USSR wasn't our enemy yet, so it doesn't count!". Interesting to see the right wing now switching back to the USSR being totally evil since a Democrat had the nerve to honor a Russian WWII vet.

Oh, I don't know. Surviving anything with Stalin's name attached is no mean feat, when you consider the purges, the famines, the random shootings, the soldiers who came back from the front only to be shipped to the Gulags for seeing too much of the decadent West, the POW's who were executed for daring to survive Hitler's tender care; and then live through how many other regimes the man made it through somehow downplaying his connection to Stalin's Red Army (which was fatal during the post-60's reigns).

He probably deserved whatever honors he got.

Mother Motherland frowns on these shenanigans

Capitalist1:TheOther:

He was fighting *for* a regime essentially the same as the Nazis, except far more destructive. So yes, it might make some sense to object to that.

Eh, they weren't really that bad until Stalinization really took hold, it's not inconceivable that soldiers in the army would be thinking of the older form of the revolution while engaging german troops.

Calling the Soviets the same as the Nazis is immensely politically and historically ignorant, by the way. "They both kind of sucked" is not really a valid way to group governing philosophies.

Ironically Stalin was more like a great industrial tycoon than a politician.

Stalinism is not fascism.
Gulags are not death camps.

Yes, the Soviet Union was a dangerous, tyrannical empire. No, they were not "essentially the same as the Nazis."

EVEN IF THEY WERE... Nobody has any right to impugn a man who defended Russia in WWII. For God's sake, 30 million died on that front. 1.5 million in Stalingrad in ONE BATTLE. They came back from THAT and they LIBERATED AUSCHWITZ. Regardless of the long struggle between us that followed, in that war they fought and died on our side.

Whatever problems you have with Communism or the Red Army, take off your damn hat for a Russian GPW vet.