Actually it would be better to put any nasty into SUV seating materials.

+1 for blankets reference. i was born in the native american concentration camp formally known as Oklahoma

SushiJoe: +1 for blankets reference. i was born in the native american concentration camp formally known as Oklahoma

I've never been to Heaven,
But I've been to Oklahoma.
They tell me I was born there,
But I really don't remember.


BTW, pretty good summary of the issue, submitter.

By gosh Subby, it's almost as though immigration is a complex issue that can't be addressed with a simplistic "Yes" or "No" answer!

Personally, I'd like to take every simple-minded Subby-esque cretin in America to the edge of the ocean, and ask them if they like water. If they say "yes", I drown them in it. If they say "no", I keep them in cages until they die of thirst.

small pox ain't pretty

I don't want to press 2 for Cherokee!

"We must assert our values and reconcile our principles as a nation of immigrants and a nation of laws. That is a priority I will pursue from my very first day," he [Obama] added.

A: We're not a nation of immigrants. I was born here, as was the majority of Americans. If you mean our ancestors migrated here, that makes every nation on Earth a "nation of immigrants" with the possible exception of a few countries in Sub-Saharan Africa.

B: Some of the laws of which "we are a nation" encompass illegal immigration. You can't pick and choose which laws you're going to honor just because you don't like them. If you want the law changed, who better than a Senator to do it? Introduce a bill to reform those laws and let's have a debate about it. That's what John McCain did, and got his head handed to him, but maybe you'll have better luck.

SushiJoe: +1 for blankets reference. i was born in the native american concentration camp formally known as Oklahoma

Acknowledging the shiatty treatment of the Native Americans, and all its associated issues..

The mass wipeout of native cultures happened centuries before the "blankets" issue. People have pushed this blankets, smallpox, and native Americans back to the 1760's (pops) and the French and Indian war.

Immigration is about number 50 on my personal list of shiat this country needs to address right now. If it weren't for Lou Dobbs and the rest of the vomit pumps on cable news, we wouldn't be talking about it at all.

jjorsett: We're not a nation of immigrants. I was born here

Link to McCain debating himself over immigration. Funny stuff.

Link (new window)

Why the hell do people bring up the original population when it comes to immigration.

It has nothing to do with what's happening, and has no relevance. Its a deflective tactic, nothing more.

Smallpox champion u s of a
Give natives some blankets
Warm like the grave
This is the pattern cut from the cloth
This is the pattern designed to take you right out
This is the frontier with winter's so cold
Greed informs action where action makes bold
To take all the cotton that's cut from the stalk
Weave the disease that's gonna take you right out
What is good for the future what was good for the past -
Won't last
Bury your heart u s of a history rears up to spit in your face
You saw what you wanted
You took what you saw
We know how you got it
Your method equals wipe out
The end of the frontier and all that you own
Under the blankets of all that you've done
Memory serves us to serve you
Yet memory serves us to never let you wipe out
Cha-cha-cha-champion
You'll get yours
Wipe o

Swampthing in Korea: Why the hell do people bring up the original population when it comes to immigration.

Because every last person who is not Native is a descendant of an immigrant?

It has nothing to do with what's happening, and has no relevance. Its a deflective tactic, nothing more.

Except that the people who are just blanket "anti-immigration" get so irritated when someone mentions it. It's awesome to watch.

When people are "anti-immigrant" they really mean "anti-nonwhite immigrant" because they don't seem to care about the large number of folks from England, for example, who immigrate here every year and take our jerbs.

PC LOAD LETTER: "anti-nonwhite immigrant"

well, when the cracker ass cracker (as per US def.) Iraqi refugees came over, I heard some howling on here.

PC LOAD LETTER: Swampthing in Korea: Why the hell do people bring up the original population when it comes to immigration.

Because every last person who is not Native is a descendant of an immigrant?

As a white boy who thinks that we totally farked up with the aboriginal people of the North American continent, I've still got to say that even the "natives" are immigrants.

PC LOAD LETTER:

Because every last person who is not Native is a descendant of an immigrant?

I am native because I was born in the country I live. EVERYBODY is a a descendant of an immigrant, even if they came over 40 or 40,000 years ago. Having ancestors dwelling in a certain place does not genetically transfer any special rights or priviliges over and above citizenship.

When people are "anti-immigrant" they really mean "anti-nonwhite immigrant" because they don't seem to care about the large number of folks from England, for example, who immigrate here every year and take our jerbs.

Well, that's fine mind-reading there.

What am I thinking now?

Ace Frehley's Ghost: I've still got to say that even the "natives" are immigrants.

Depending on how the Solutrean / Clovis argument will finally boil down to, of course.

PC LOAD LETTER: When people are "anti-immigrant" they really mean "anti-nonwhite immigrant" because they don't seem to care about the large number of folks from England, for example, who immigrate here every year and take our jerbs

These people usually do so legally. I am pro-legal immigration. I am anti-illegal immigration. What color a persons skin is makes no difference whatsoever to me. If you crossed our border illegally you are a criminal. That is a fact and has NO ROOM for discussion. No immigration bill gets my support unless it secures our borders from ILLEGAL crossings. After our borders are secure from ILLEGAL crossings then I would support some form of amnesty for those already here who have an otherwise clean record.

It's all about the legality with me

PC LOAD LETTER: When people are "anti-immigrant" they really mean "anti-nonwhite immigrant" because they don't seem to care about the large number of folks from England, for example, who immigrate here every year and take our jerbs.

Perhaps they mean anti- "criminal alien" immigrant. I have respect and admiration for those who come to this country through proper channels; it's an arduous task. The ones who break laws to come here should be arrested and prosecuted.

/And yes, I'm an immigrant to this country.

Majick Thise: PC LOAD LETTER: When people are "anti-immigrant" they really mean "anti-nonwhite immigrant" because they don't seem to care about the large number of folks from England, for example, who immigrate here every year and take our jerbs

These people usually do so legally. I am pro-legal immigration. I am anti-illegal immigration. What color a persons skin is makes no difference whatsoever to me. If you crossed our border illegally you are a criminal. That is a fact and has NO ROOM for discussion. No immigration bill gets my support unless it secures our borders from ILLEGAL crossings. After our borders are secure from ILLEGAL crossings then I would support some form of amnesty for those already here who have an otherwise clean record.

It's all about the legality with me

That's the little game these illegal immigrant apologists play, they try to mix legal and illegal immigration together, so if you just believe in the rule of law, you're some crazy Tom Tancredo guy.

I think most people for "path to citizenship" stuff, don't even understand the process. My father was a legal immigrant from Argentina, my grandfather and grandmother (on my mother's side) were immigrants from Poland and Germany, respectively, if they did things the right way, why can't any of these criminals?

Majick Thise: It's all about the legality with me

Well shiat, that's easy enough to fix. Make it legal for anyone to come to this country from anywhere. There you go. Problem solved, right. 'Cause it's all about the legality, right.

verbal_jizm: Majick Thise: It's all about the legality with me

Well shiat, that's easy enough to fix. Make it legal for anyone to come to this country from anywhere. There you go. Problem solved, right. 'Cause it's all about the legality, right.

So what you're saying is, and I'm sure you will correct me where I'm wrong, is that a country should have no say over who comes into the country?

Massa Damnata: small pox ain't pretty

Don't post stuff like this.

carmody: If it weren't for Lou Dobbs and the rest of the vomit pumps on cable news, we wouldn't be talking about it at all.

Well.. I was stunned when I first saw this.

(Dec 31, 2007) Animosity Over Immigration Grows in the U.S.
As the year ends, more people in the United States have a negative opinion of immigration, according to a poll by Hart/McInturff released by the Wall Street Journal and NBC News. 52 per cent of respondents think immigration hurts the U.S. more than it helps it, up eight points since June.
...snip..

Ace Frehley's Ghost: So what you're saying is, and I'm sure you will correct me where I'm wrong, is that a country should have no say over who comes into the country?

Well the point I was making, about how it was a little more than the legality issue that was causing Majick Thise's consternation, is lost on you.

When people are "anti-immigrant" they really mean "anti-nonwhite immigrant" because they don't seem to care about the large number of folks from England, for example, who immigrate here every year and take our jerbs.


Except a large number of white people don't immigrate here each year, not on the level of hispanic immigrants anyway, and very few of them immigrate here illegally.

Not really the same situation at all.

Ace Frehley's Ghost: As a white boy who thinks that we totally farked up with the aboriginal people of the North American continent, I've still got to say that even the "natives" are immigrants.

Well, there was no one here to complain about them taking their jerbs or land, that's for sure. Non-natives were a mix of settler, conqueror, friend and foe to the natives. But the end result is pretty obvious. Not that every last non-native doesn't directly or indirectly benefit from this in a massive way, but at least we can say "yeah, that was pretty farked up" while enjoying our Broadway shopping spree.

Swampthing in Korea: Well, that's fine mind-reading there.

What am I thinking now?

I really, truly, don't care.

Majick Thise: These people usually do so legally. I am pro-legal immigration. I am anti-illegal immigration. What color a persons skin is makes no difference whatsoever to me. If you crossed our border illegally you are a criminal. That is a fact and has NO ROOM for discussion. No immigration bill gets my support unless it secures our borders from ILLEGAL crossings. After our borders are secure from ILLEGAL crossings then I would support some form of amnesty for those already here who have an otherwise clean record.

It's all about the legality with me

Agreed.

I am pro-legal immigration as well. I am also for limiting even that, but across the board. The problem is that we have corporations supporting the illegal immigration system in a massive way. This needs to stop immediately. Illegal immigration is a very bad thing to let run rampant. I can safely say that if we raided my apartment building with INS on any given weekday, the overwhelming majority of those with a cleaning lady would be out a cleaning lady. And this includes Latins, Russians, Asians, Africans and Carribeans.

filth
Massa Damnata: small pox ain't pretty

Don't post stuff like this.

Oh dear, reality getting in the way of your Sunday chuckles??? Genocide is so much funnier when its only a headline.

There is no comparison between the sizes of the immigration panders of McCain and Obama.

Obama, like most of the Dems, is just muddled on the issue. McCain has actively wanted to grant instant legalization to millions of low wage workers, because the GOP's main constituency (big retail, aggro, pharma) stands everything to gain by a very loose labor market. Then he went back on that for the primaries. Now that he's in the general, he's back to his original position.

Right or Left, McCain has the far worse plan for immigration. He's much more radical than Obama, and people really should be worried about what he'd do if he got into office. Hell, he wrote the phony compromise bill that would have torpedoed enforcement and been a total amnesty about 6 months ago. His whole position has been written by lobbyists, and it's totally disgusting.

Let's just declare a War on Illegal immigrants and be done with it. We can appoint a cabinet level illegal czar, and hype it like we yto the wars on terror, drugs, Iraqis, poverty, and whatever else I've missed.

Hurry up and put the damn fence up, and let's move on to something important.

verbal_jizm: Ace Frehley's Ghost: So what you're saying is, and I'm sure you will correct me where I'm wrong, is that a country should have no say over who comes into the country?

Well the point I was making, about how it was a little more than the legality issue that was causing Majick Thise's consternation, is lost on you.

And the point that I was making, that there might accidentally be a reason not to just throw the doors open, is lost on you.

Massa Damnata: small pox ain't pretty



Makes me hungry for a Krackel Bar too

jjorsett: "We must assert our values and reconcile our principles as a nation of immigrants and a nation of laws. That is a priority I will pursue from my very first day," he [Obama] added.

A: We're not a nation of immigrants. I was born here, as was the majority of Americans. If you mean our ancestors migrated here, that makes every nation on Earth a "nation of immigrants" with the possible exception of a few countries in Sub-Saharan Africa.

B: Some of the laws of which "we are a nation" encompass illegal immigration. You can't pick and choose which laws you're going to honor just because you don't like them. If you want the law changed, who better than a Senator to do it? Introduce a bill to reform those laws and let's have a debate about it. That's what John McCain did, and got his head handed to him, but maybe you'll have better luck.

A: You have no concept of the meaning behind the term "nation of immigrants." Do a little homework, unless you're contending that your Family's residence here predates the country itself in an unbroken line. I know it's hard, but you may have to take something for more than its bland, first-level, apparent only as the words-on-the-page face value. I believe in you! You can do it!

B: You also need to start judging people's intentions on more than just one sentence. Do a little research and you won't seem to be quite the idiot that you do in the quoted post.

Massa Damnata: filth
Massa Damnata: small pox ain't pretty

Don't post stuff like this.

Oh dear, reality getting in the way of your Sunday chuckles??? Genocide is so much funnier when its only a headline.

Friendly advice is all I'm handing out.

The immigration mess is typical of the kind of problem you run into when you mismanage a country as badly as th US has been mismanaged over the last 40 years or so.

There is no painless solution to it. Uprooting millions of illegals is not really an option. Amnesty is probably the only solution.

Building a fence is a joke. The government is going to have to start tracking individuals a lot more closely than just about any American wants. Otherwise we're going to continue to be a two class society.

ilambiquated: The immigration mess is typical of the kind of problem you run into when you mismanage a country as badly as th US has been mismanaged over the last 40 years or so.

There is no painless solution to it. Uprooting millions of illegals is not really an option. Amnesty is probably the only solution.

Building a fence is a joke. The government is going to have to start tracking individuals a lot more closely than just about any American wants. Otherwise we're going to continue to be a two class society.

While I agree that the fence is basically a fantasy plan, I have to question one thing about amnesty, and this is really a genuine question:

Amnesty.... then what?

Do we start paying those tens of millions minimum wage? That will, economically, cost us more than deporting them, not that I think of that as a reasonable solution either. The only real reason why deportation costs less is because 1, it will not be feasable to track down and deport every one of them. Like, literally impossible, and 2, it will not stick, because there's no realistic way to close our borders, even if that were a good idea, which it is not. If we don't deport them and do give them amnesty and minimum wage then we end up with a suddenly ridiculously spiked cost of living. If we don't deport them and don't require minimum wage then we end up with a perpetuation of the "two-class" society (It's probably closer to 4-5 distinct classes at this point). If we deport them, the previously mentioned things happen.

Basically, we have a huge honking mess. I don't see a realistic way of getting out of it without heavy damage to our economy, ideals, or constitution and I don't think that the politicians involved in this race do either. They'll certainly pay lip service to the thought that they do, all around, but that's all it will be.

I'd love to go back in time and tell the natives what was coming, what all those promises would mean. Considering the illegals from Europe were damn near useless at feeding themselves, killing them off before they got a foothold wouldn't have been hard. I'd have loved to tell Moctezuma how to handle the Spaniards on horses... "Kill the horses and then just stand well away and fire arrows at the riders until they stop twitching. Angle your spears this way and they'll impale themselves for you."

I know of a few legals I'd like to ship back to Europe... they're lazy dumbasses and should go back to where they came from.

Slugs_of_a_banana_nature:I'd love to go back in time and tell the natives what was coming, what all those promises would mean. Considering the illegals from Europe were damn near useless at feeding themselves, killing them off before they got a foothold wouldn't have been hard. I'd have loved to tell Moctezuma how to handle the Spaniards on horses... "Kill the horses and then just stand well away and fire arrows at the riders until they stop twitching. Angle your spears this way and they'll impale themselves for you."

I know of a few legals I'd like to ship back to Europe... they're lazy dumbasses and should go back to where they came from.

... Are you UCSC folk?

Anyone remember that story about the Lakota (Sioux) declaring themselves an independent country?

For all the morans trying to push down this Army blanket bullocks, you need to do some readin'

Link (new window)
PDF File (new window)

/all yall be ignerant mo' farkers.
//if there is an instance worse than forgetting history, it is fabricating it.
///especially for political means.

Ace Frehley's Ghost:verbal_jizm: Ace Frehley's Ghost: So what you're saying is, and I'm sure you will correct me where I'm wrong, is that a country should have no say over who comes into the country?

Well the point I was making, about how it was a little more than the legality issue that was causing Majick Thise's consternation, is lost on you.

And the point that I was making, that there might accidentally be a reason not to just throw the doors open, is lost on you.

And I never said open the doors and let everybody in. What I said was if they are here legally or come here legally I am fine with it. That means jumping through whatever hoops our gov't wishes to impose on those wishing to legally immigrate

I'm not the son of an immigrant. My family were conquerors, so HAH!

Benjamin the Rogue:I'm not the son of an immigrant. My family were conquerors, so HAH!

Oh, and thanks for the blanket guys!