"It's going to be staggering," said Northboro Oil Co. owner Sandra Farrell in telephone interview with The Associated Press. "It's going to be a real problem going into this winter for everyone unless something changes."



They can just burn their heating bill overdue notices to stay warm.

problem solved!

Oh, wait...

If the oil bubble does not collapse by December, a lot of people are going to die just to pad the returns of hedge and pension funds.

Greed is good!

I'm really glad heat is included in my rent.

It's time to invest in a different heating system, New Englanders. Burning oil for heat is just not wise. I've heard that you guys have some extra trees up there. Perhaps you could invest in some wood pellet stoves or furnaces. (new window)

That's cold.

Lando Lincoln: It's time to invest in a different heating system, New Englanders. Burning oil for heat is just not wise. I've heard that you guys have some extra trees up there. Perhaps you could invest in some wood pellet stoves or furnaces. (new window)

nah. just go back to whale oil.

ThrnPhl: I'm really glad heat is included in my rent.

What happens when your landlord can no longer afford it?

shanrick: What happens when your landlord can no longer afford it?

Ding! Ding!

shanrick: What happens when your landlord can no longer afford it?

My apartment is run by a management company that profits from ripping off the area college students (My apartment is in a small house and is not one of the student slums), and it is stated in my lease that they will handle all heating costs. Personally, I'm not worried.

NewportBarGuy: If the oil bubble does not collapse by December, a lot of people are going to die just to pad the returns of hedge and pension funds.

Greed is good!

What's the death toll in Iraq?

m0llusk: That's cold.

I think it's kind of slick.

This is incredibly farked up. What are they going to do, freeze to death?

How high does oil go before it's in a country's best interest to conquer and control the countries with large supplies?

I say we go back to the old days and build fires. It's free and everyone stays warm.

/and you can make smores
//yum

KidKorporate: This is incredibly farked up. What are they going to do, freeze to death?

They can burn each other's corpses to stay warm.

In Northern tier NY, Maine, and north VT earlier this year there have been summer communities where thieves stole the 1000+ gallon tanks from every summer cottage in isolated areas.

/it's gonna be scary in north and central Maine this winter.

Unless something happens to bring down the cost of oil before winter, the death toll in cold areas of the US is going to cause such a media shiatstorm. What will come of this, I dunno. But I personally hope that the villagers will show up with pitchforks and torches at the offices of those responsible and at the steps of Congress.
Will it happen? Probably not. I think we're still a long way off from a revolt or uprising.

...still I'm glad I live in CA where I dont need to heat my home more than a dozen nights a year.

Saturn5: How high does oil go before it's in a country's best interest to conquer and control the countries with large supplies?

If I remember 2001 well enough, about $18-20 a barrel? Or $1.30 a gallon?

Aquadyne: KidKorporate: This is incredibly farked up. What are they going to do, freeze to death?

They can burn each other's corpses to stay warm.

Then what will they eat?

For city slickers... thieves stole the above ground 1000+ gallon propane tanks and heating oil tanks used for hunting camps, small 3 season lake cottages and similar areas that are empty of humans during the end of winter.

CaptainCliche: Unless something happens to bring down the cost of oil before winter, the death toll in cold areas of the US is going to cause such a media shiatstorm. What will come of this, I dunno. But I personally hope that the villagers will show up with pitchforks and torches at the offices of those responsible and at the steps of Congress.
Will it happen? Probably not. I think we're still a long way off from a revolt or uprising.

...still I'm glad I live in CA where I dont need to heat my home more than a dozen nights a year.

No torches. I think that's the point.

Wood stoves make a big difference in the winter. And at this rate tree length firewood is going to be cheaper by a fairly significant margin.

Saturn5: How high does oil go before it's in a country's best interest to conquer and control the countries with large supplies?

We're going to conquer ourselves? Do the the Eco-freaks even have an army to speak of?

Saturn5: How high does oil go before it's in a country's best interest to conquer and control the countries with large supplies?

Well, last time we tried that it was about $1.31 a gallon...

palelizard: Saturn5: How high does oil go before it's in a country's best interest to conquer and control the countries with large supplies?

If I remember 2001 well enough, about $18-20 a barrel? Or $1.30 a gallon?


For reference, oil just made it's second best quarter ever. The best quarter ever was when it went from $11 to $17 in 1999.

Saturn5: How high does oil go before it's in a country's best interest to conquer and control the countries with large supplies?

Who knows. What country is in close proximity to the United States, possess a large supply of oil and is significantly weaker militarily though? One would also have to consider the likelihood of resistance on behalf of the populous, which may limit our ability to occupy countries with populations, say, a third of ours.

Note to self: Invest in Wool Futures...

taurusowner: Saturn5: How high does oil go before it's in a country's best interest to conquer and control the countries with large supplies?

We're going to conquer ourselves? Do the the Eco-freaks even have an army to speak of?

7 mbpd and declining when consumption is 21-22 mbpd

You far overestimate your oil in place offshore, at best you're looking at replacing existing production at a 10%+ reinvestment rate

Perhaps it is time for people to stop living in places with extreme climates.

It can get down to -30F in Maine and northern Wisconsin. That's 100 degrees your heating system is trying to overcome.

Along the west coast, it is rare to dip below 30F. Mild climate for most of the year.

Heck, even here in Phoenix, my A/C is working against only 30 degrees of heat during the afternoon in June. I never paid more than $140/mo for power for my 1600 sq-ft house, even with my crappy 10 year old single-zone, single-stage heat pump. Now that I have a new ~20 SEER HVAC system, my cooling costs per sq-ft have dropped by over a third.

Have Exxon pay 50% of the upcoming degree-days for home heating, as a tax on their immoral and obscene record profits.

Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: Saturn5: How high does oil go before it's in a country's best interest to conquer and control the countries with large supplies?

Who knows. What country is in close proximity to the United States, possess a large supply of oil and is significantly weaker militarily though? One would also have to consider the likelihood of resistance on behalf of the populous, which may limit our ability to occupy countries with populations, say, a third of ours.

Serious answer: venezuela

Slightly less serious answer: canada

palelizard: NewportBarGuy: If the oil bubble does not collapse by December, a lot of people are going to die just to pad the returns of hedge and pension funds.

Greed is good!

What's the death toll in Iraq?

4000 Americans, 20,000 Insurgent grease-spots

/still waiting for the oil from the first Gulf War.

Hilarious. Not one post yet about solar heat (passive or thermally collected), insulation, co-opping, or relocating. Just some loose talk about rebellion and how farked up this all is.

Glad I live in Texas. Winters aren't generally that bad. Girlfriend and I have insulated curtains in the bedroom, our heat is gas, which sucks, but heavy blankets, electric heaters and the shared body warmth between her and I makes the winters tolerable.

Out west, there are counties that are bigger than some states.

Spending $2600 to fill up an oil tank? At that point, why not just invest in an electric heat system or a heat pump? It will pay for itself within 2 winters (minus electricity costs, and probably within 3-4 winters with electricity factored in)

limboslam: 4000 Americans, 20,000 Insurgent grease-spots

/still waiting for the oil from the first Gulf War.

And Iraqi civilians?

Dinjiin: Along the west coast, it is rare to dip below 30F. Mild climate for most of the year.

Heck, even here in Phoenix, my A/C is working against only 30 degrees of heat during the afternoon in June. I never paid more than $140/mo for power for my 1600 sq-ft house, even with my crappy 10 year old single-zone, single-stage heat pump. Now that I have a new ~20 SEER HVAC system, my cooling costs per sq-ft have dropped by over a third.

Yeah, but it's a dry heat.

malibupetey 2008-06-29 03:19:08 AM
Have Exxon pay 50% of the upcoming degree-days for home heating, as a tax on their immoral and obscene record profits.


It's comments like these that make me dread the stupidity of some that are elegible to vote.

Burn coal. Plenty of Penn. anthracite available on the east coast or from Lehman's in Ohio. I burned coal for several years in Europe and it is good, long lasting heat despite the environmental impact. Any place that sells wood stoves can get coal grates or stoves and it is easier to handle than wood. If natural gas goes out of sight this winter in the Midwest, I'm going to stick a coal/wood stove in the basement. I live in a 100 year old house so the coal chute and bin are still in the basement ready to go.

malibupetey: Have Exxon pay 50% of the upcoming degree-days for home heating, as a tax on their immoral and obscene record profits.

Yes, cause them to say "FARK YOU" to America by either moving out of the country or closing up shop completely. Yeah, that'll lower prices.

It will get really bad when people figure out that heating oil and diesel fuel (aka fuel oil) come out of the same part of the refinery, kind of like kerosene and jet fuel.

Natural gas and LP gas would be good alternatives

Dinjiin: (2008-06-29 03:18:42 AM) Perhaps it is time for people to stop living in places with extreme climates.

bheilig: (2008-06-29 03:26:57 AM) Not one post yet about ... relocating.

Would you like to try that post again?


palelizard: Yeah, but it's a dry heat.

Damn skippy it is.

I don't care what George Carlin used to whine about. Dry heat makes it more tolerable.

I'll take 110F in Palm Springs, Phoenix or Las Vegas over 80F in Atlanta, Houston or New Orleans any day. I hate humidity. If I want to get wet, I'll take a shower. I don't want to soak in my own clothes. That stuff is just plain nasty.

Lando Lincoln: Perhaps you could invest in some wood pellet stoves or furnaces. (new window)

Perhaps that website could invest in a copy editor! The second paragraph needs to be more smaller.

These people built a house in Maine that is completely self-sufficient in terms of heating. We need more people like them. Half of their solar panels are photovoltaic cells, half are purely for heating.

(Granted, slapping the same solar panels on most houses wouldn't get you the same things; their house was designed from the ground up for this. Hell, they even chose the location with solar power in mind. But you could do a lot better than we are doing.)

According to the article, the national average for heating will be $2500. Assume that people in the north pay $4000 for a season. I have no clue how close this is to being true, but I bet it's not too far off. (I'm in an old apartment with 9 units in Madison, WI, and from October 15, 2007 to April 15, 2008 the heating cost of the building was about $5500, close to $1000/mth. And this is gas heat, not oil.) If these prices hold steady, you could recoup the cost of a solar setup like that in probably 5 years. If I owned a house I was planning on living in for a while, I would be seriously considering something like that.

Dinjiin: I don't care what George Carlin used to whine about. Dry heat makes it more tolerable.

I'll take 110F in Palm Springs, Phoenix or Las Vegas over 80F in Atlanta, Houston or New Orleans any day. I hate humidity. If I want to get wet, I'll take a shower. I don't want to soak in my own clothes. That stuff is just plain nasty.

I'm right there with you. I grew up in the stagnant heart of SC, and I swear it does something to people's brains. But to my understanding, humidity also increases fuel needs for AC. I admit a lack of technical knowledge on the items, but I understood AC to rely a certain amount upon evaporation for proper functioning. That means coastal areas, particularly southern coastal areas, are going to use more power than landlocked areas, like Arizona.

We can thank the left and the greens for this oil crisis [and it is a crisis]. Some privileged few libs have a pristine view and we're going to pay $10 a gallon for gas to preserve it. "Drilling in ANWR won't do anything to help us right now" they said. Bastards.

palelizard: ... humidity also increases fuel needs for AC.

That's due to the energy needed to condense water vapor out of the air. It's why your window A/C drips.

Everything you need to know about HVAC all in one simple chart:


The northeast doesn't use heat pumps in winter because they are inefficient at large temperature differentials. The solution, of course is a geothermal heat pump, which uses the stable temp deep underground instead of the air for its low-temp side. Works even better in summer for cooling. Capital cost is high, though.

If only someone had imagined that oil might not be cheap forever, something might have been done before the whole country was broke from paying for gasoline. Too late! Freeze to death. You earned it, you deserve it, I hope you enjoy it. I know I will.

/don't even HAVE heat
//because it never gets cold here
///$1.36/gal gas too
/V

well i should start collecting junk mail for the fireplace now.

lobsterscope: We can thank the left and the greens for this oil crisis [and it is a crisis]. Some privileged few libs have a pristine view and we're going to pay $10 a gallon for gas to preserve it. "Drilling in ANWR won't do anything to help us right now" they said. Bastards.

well yeah, it will take atleast 5 - 10 years to see anything. isn't there more oil off the gulf coast and the 68 million acres that oil companies aren't drilling?

Dubai Vol: That's due to the energy needed to condense water vapor out of the air. It's why your window A/C drips.

Everything you need to know about HVAC all in one simple chart:


The northeast doesn't use heat pumps in winter because they are inefficient at large temperature differentials. The solution, of course is a geothermal heat pump, which uses the stable temp deep underground instead of the air for its low-temp side. Works even better in summer for cooling. Capital cost is high, though.

If only someone had imagined that oil might not be cheap forever, something might have been done before the whole country was broke from paying for gasoline. Too late! Freeze to death. You earned it, you deserve it, I hope you enjoy it. I know I will.

/don't even HAVE heat
//because it never gets cold here
///$1.36/gal gas too
/V

Thanks. I have absolutely no idea how to read that graph, but that's my fault, not yours.

I think it's unlikely a large group of people are going to freeze to death in six months. Dead people don't use oil. The oil companies will offer significant discounts (even to the point of free) for heating oil in while gaining tax deductibility for the oil and a 50% gov't subsidy on the cost in order to avoid windfall taxes.

Seriously, if people die this winter, who's going to be blamed? The government or the oil companies?

ZOMG, you could just wear f*cking sweaters and suck it up. Good lord.

YoungSwedishBlonde: ZOMG, you could just wear f*cking sweaters and suck it up. Good lord.

Or by a really powerful computer.

Or just skimp on the heat sink.

In case you actually care, that's a psychrometric chart, and you can learn how to read it in thermodynamics class. There really is everything you want to know about air right there.

And yes, sadly, there will be government aid programs for poor people to help pay for their heat, and only a few who fall through the cracks will go without. Afraid I'm with Carlin: whatever bad thing is happening to the human race, I hope it gets worse. I predict that historians will look back on 2008 as the year America died, though the corpse will keep kicking for a while yet.