And what are we suggesting the new gasoline prices will be if this situation becomes unglued?

Place your bets...

It's more about the United States breathing on Iran, not Israel.

The commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards warned that Tehran would respond to an attack against it by barraging Israel with missiles and controlling a key oil passageway in the Persian Gulf, a newspaper report published Saturday said.

So if we hit Iran, we have to hit Iran hard and fast without a warning shot and follow up by bouncing the rubble just in case. Thanks for the tip, General.

Random Reality Check: And what are we suggesting the new gasoline prices will be if this situation becomes unglued?

Place your bets...

$300 a barrel

Israel's provocations of Iran remind me of what FDR's regime did to the Japanese Empire in the late 1930s. How'd that work out?

burndtdan: Random Reality Check: And what are we suggesting the new gasoline prices will be if this situation becomes unglued?

Place your bets...

$300 a barrel

In 35 minutes.

ZAZ: So if we hit Iran, we have to hit Iran hard and fast without a warning shot and follow up by bouncing the rubble just in case. Thanks for the tip, General.


approves

Could we hold this off for a month until my daughter gets home from Jerusalem? Cause that'd be great.

Tabatha Static: Israel's provocations of Iran remind me of what FDR's regime did to the Japanese Empire in the late 1930s. How'd that work out?

Wow, Tabitha. You usually don't showcase your big FAIL until later in the day. Glad to see you off to a good start today, though.

clancifer: You usually don't showcase your big FAIL until later in the day.

What do you object to?

My assertion that FDR provoked Japan?

My assertion that FDR provoking Japan led directly to war in the Pacific?

My assertion that the Pacific War ended with the US atomic bombing of Japan?

My assertion that Japanese women and children were blasted with atomic radiation?

My assertion that Israel is provoking Iran?

My assertion that such provocations could conceivably lead to a big ugly war, possibly involving nuclear weapons?

Tabatha Static: Israel's provocations of Iran remind me of what FDR's regime did to the Japanese Empire in the late 1930s

KaponoFor3: Tabatha Static: Israel's provocations of Iran remind me of what FDR's regime did to the Japanese Empire in the late 1930s

What do you object to?

My assertion that FDR provoked Japan?

My assertion that FDR provoking Japan led directly to war in the Pacific?

My assertion that the Pacific War ended with the US atomic bombing of Japan?

My assertion that Japanese women and children were blasted with atomic radiation?

My assertion that Israel is provoking Iran?

My assertion that such provocations could conceivably lead to a big ugly war, possibly involving nuclear weapons?

Get ready for $20 a gallon gas.

Tabatha Static: What do you object to?

1) My assertion that FDR provoked Japan?
2) My assertion that FDR provoking Japan led directly to war in the Pacific?
3) My assertion that Israel is provoking Iran?

I object! to all 3.

Tabatha Static: KaponoFor3: Tabatha Static: Israel's provocations of Iran remind me of what FDR's regime did to the Japanese Empire in the late 1930s

What do you object to?

My assertion that FDR provoked Japan?

My assertion that FDR provoking Japan led directly to war in the Pacific?

My assertion that the Pacific War ended with the US atomic bombing of Japan?

My assertion that Japanese women and children were blasted with atomic radiation?

My assertion that Israel is provoking Iran?

My assertion that such provocations could conceivably lead to a big ugly war, possibly involving nuclear weapons?

In FDR's defense, Japan was gobbling up nations in SE Asia, including China, who we were friends with. And FDR's provocation in response to these actions was to cut off their supply of oil from the U.S.

So yeah, FDR did "provoke" Japan. But it wasn't unwarranted; there was a lot more than rhetoric involved.

Gish21: Get ready for $20 a gallon gas.

See, that was what Cheney was trying to say all along! And to think, you libtards gave him such a hard time for nothing.

Jesus Christ, who even cares about whether Israel exists or not?

$53 million a week in aid to Israel. You would have thought we would've got more for our money than 400 illegal settlements and nuclear war.

Falcc: Jesus Christ, who even cares about whether Israel exists or not?

Israelis?

Once again, everyone is getting worked up over a bunch of rhetoric on both sides.

Israel can't do any bombing runs into Iran as long as we control Iraqi airspace.

We're too over-extended to start something in Iran.

Iran has no intention of starting a conflict that they can't finish. Especially since they just need to wait out the current administration.


/Nothing to see here. Move along.

TromboneBlown: YOU'RE A farkING IDIOT

67 Beetle:
Israel can't do any bombing runs into Iran as long as we control Iraqi airspace.


Err, d'you want to rephrase that, Herbie?

Surely you mean the opposite.

Ron Paul Revere:
sarcastrophe:

I'll let this one go becuase it was supposed to be a pun suggesting something about revelations, and puns aren't that funny to begin with. But damnit if I have to start dumbing down my humor for you two I'll be very dissapointed.

Seriously though, is this International Israel Headline Week at Fark? Unless this is an attempt to summon up Tatsuma from the abyss we've pretty much run out of topics.

TromboneBlown: Tabitha, though I hate FDR and how he changed the direction of the country, let's get our facts straight;

YOUR A farkING IDIOT!

Ok, our facts are straight now.

You want to a claim, you want to put up an opposing argument? How about backing it up and watching the insults - because you are really asking for it.

Are you trying to take the position that the US (through FDR) did nothing to provoke the Japanese?

Now, from this side of the argument, I 'm not going to try to defend the Japanese, they were "colonizing" Asia as fast as they could, not that they didn't believe the west was doing pretty much the same thing in "our" corner of the world.

But, here's the way things work here, you want to call someone out, fine, have at it, but you better be damn well sure you back up your statement with some facts.

Oh, and one more piece of advice, make sure when you do this that you know who you're picking on, because challenging Party Boy and now Tabitha Static is going to get you your ass handed to you faster than anything else you could possibly think of in this lifetime.

Go ahead, now do your best, you headed to the being the king of fail in three steps of less today, why waste time?

67 Beetle: "Israel can't do any bombing runs into Iran as long as we control Iraqi airspace."

Kirby Muxloe: "Err, d'you want to rephrase that, Herbie? Surely you mean the opposite."

No. I meant that (although, the opposite is also true).

Israel cannot fly to Iran without getting caught by the U.S. So they would need U.S. permission to do it -- which we will not give. We didn't let them fight in Gulf War I and we aren't about to let them start something with Iran now.

Now, once we pull out of Iraq, all bets are off.

The Beacon Man: FTFA: commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards warned that Tehran would respond to an attack against it by barraging Israel with missiles and controlling a key oil passageway in the Persian Gulf


Israel is already being barraged by Iran.

As for 'controlling' oil passageways, that's a laugher.

uhhh... Iran has the worlds largest shallow water sub fleet, controlling the straits will not be a challange for them. On to of that the US navy has almost no shallow water capabilities.

(400ft boats in 600 ft water depth)

Ron Paul Revere: I got the joke. I was just making another.

Fair enough.

You know I always get a kick out of the topics here. It's impossible to say which way the discussion will go. Will it be a discussion of the validity of Israel, historically? Will someone point out an economic advantage or disadvantage to the situation? Will we have a religious flamewar? Will there be trolling? Bush bashing? Will I somehow learn something about world history of a totally unrelated country? Or will we just whip out the snark?

It's intensely interesting to watch.

TromboneBlown: Also, from the aggressive tone of your post, I must assume you are an internet tough guy. So what do you practice? Mixed martial arts?

Did someone say...

Iran would make a wonderful parking lot but it would be a total waste unless Wal-Mart built a superstore there, first. Or least quickly after.

"The fridge is on your side!"
"So is God."

/obscure?

zedster: The Beacon Man: FTFA: commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards warned that Tehran would respond to an attack against it by barraging Israel with missiles and controlling a key oil passageway in the Persian Gulf


Israel is already being barraged by Iran.

As for 'controlling' oil passageways, that's a laugher.

uhhh... Iran has the worlds largest shallow water sub fleet, controlling the straits will not be a challange for them. On to of that the US navy has almost no shallow water capabilities.

(400ft boats in 600 ft water depth)



All the shallow navies in the world will not help them if the USA or Israel gains control of the air.

If you think Iran's air force is a match for our own, that's a whole'nother issue.

TromboneBlown: Let's be honest, if Whidbey thinks you're "very cool" you must be about as stupid as they come because his mind seems to operate on a fourth grade level or so.

Just a tip: if you want to accuse people of operating at a grade school level, you may want to grow up a little yourself first. At the moment you're just undermining anything useful you may have had to say by insulting people instead of making any points whatsoever.

I think the leaders in both Israel and Iran have invested heavy in oil futures. They're probably both sitting together in a nice club in Dubai enjoying drinks and strippers and toasting their profits.

Bunnyhat: zedster: The Beacon Man: FTFA: commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards warned that Tehran would respond to an attack against it by barraging Israel with missiles and controlling a key oil passageway in the Persian Gulf


Israel is already being barraged by Iran.

As for 'controlling' oil passageways, that's a laugher.

uhhh... Iran has the worlds largest shallow water sub fleet, controlling the straits will not be a challange for them. On to of that the US navy has almost no shallow water capabilities.

(400ft boats in 600 ft water depth)



All the shallow navies in the world will not help them if the USA or Israel gains control of the air.

If you think Iran's air force is a match for our own, that's a whole'nother issue.


Even tho we will have air control that won't stop their subs and SSVs (semi-submersible vessels). The Iran air force is made up of f-5 based fighters (Then again so is the US Navy (F-5 -> YF-17 -> F18) but I stop trolling) and some Russian gear, either way their crews will fail due to being out trained. The Iranian army is made up of 70s/80s Russian and American tech, BMP style APCs, Chinook copters, etc... so in the air and land they will get blown away. However, the sea is a another story. Iran I'm sure has hidden sub-bases and may even have tanker ships with hidden sub tender abilities. All it takes is a few torpedoed oil tankers and the world will throw a hissy fit. On top of that while we get screw on oil, Iran will take it overland to Russia and China. The only way to "win" would be to take out the entire Iranian sub fleet from 6 man subs t o the kilos in 24~72 hours, Not an easy task. Don't assume the US military can win it all on tech, Iraq should have disproved that. A military built for the Cold War (Deep Water, Strategic bombing, Tank v. Tank, etc...) will not fight well in a asymmetrical warfare situation. With Iran the best choice is probably to go out school and use the CIA to find ways to personally scare the shiat out of the Iranian leadership and get them to shut up (you know photos of them on vacation farking little boys, a couple of them have to have rich bastered children living the life in Europe, etc...)

zedster: Bunnyhat: zedster: The Beacon Man: FTFA: commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards warned that Tehran would respond to an attack against it by barraging Israel with missiles and controlling a key oil passageway in the Persian Gulf


Israel is already being barraged by Iran.

As for 'controlling' oil passageways, that's a laugher.

uhhh... Iran has the worlds largest shallow water sub fleet, controlling the straits will not be a challange for them. On to of that the US navy has almost no shallow water capabilities.

(400ft boats in 600 ft water depth)



All the shallow navies in the world will not help them if the USA or Israel gains control of the air.

If you think Iran's air force is a match for our own, that's a whole'nother issue.


Even tho we will have air control that won't stop their subs and SSVs (semi-submersible vessels). The Iran air force is made up of f-5 based fighters (Then again so is the US Navy (F-5 -> YF-17 -> F18) but I stop trolling) and some Russian gear, either way their crews will fail due to being out trained. The Iranian army is made up of 70s/80s Russian and American tech, BMP style APCs, Chinook copters, etc... so in the air and land they will get blown away. However, the sea is a another story. Iran I'm sure has hidden sub-bases and may even have tanker ships with hidden sub tender abilities. All it takes is a few torpedoed oil tankers and the world will throw a hissy fit. On top of that while we get screw on oil, Iran will take it overland to Russia and China. The only way to "win" would be to take out the entire Iranian sub fleet from 6 man subs t o the kilos in 24~72 hours, Not an easy task. Don't assume the US military can win it all on tech, Iraq should have disproved that. A military built for the Cold War (Deep Water, Strategic bombing, Tank v. Tank, etc...) will not fight well in a asymmetrical warfare situation. With Iran the best choice is probably to go out school and use the CIA to find ways to personally scare the shiat out of the Iranian leadership and get them to shut up (you know photos of them on vacation farking little boys, a couple of them have to have rich bastered children living the life in Europe, etc...)

First, there are plenty of sub-hunter planes. Second, once their supporting surface and air forces are depleted, those subs would be little more then nuisances, not legitimate threats.

While the strait is smaller then an open ocean, it's still a lot of water to patrol and without supporting surface ships to resupply and rearm the subs, it'll be over sooner or later.



What Iraq proved is that we need a new model on holding conquered land in the new age of terroist and guriella warfare.

If you don't think it proved that our combined armed forces are more then a match for any other countries combined armed forces, you're high.

The Iraqi army and airforce didn't stand a snowballs chance.

Bunnyhat: zedster: The Beacon Man: FTFA: commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards warned that Tehran would respond to an attack against it by barraging Israel with missiles and controlling a key oil passageway in the Persian Gulf


Israel is already being barraged by Iran.

As for 'controlling' oil passageways, that's a laugher.

uhhh... Iran has the worlds largest shallow water sub fleet, controlling the straits will not be a challange for them. On to of that the US navy has almost no shallow water capabilities.

(400ft boats in 600 ft water depth)



All the shallow navies in the world will not help them if the USA or Israel gains control of the air.

If you think Iran's air force is a match for our own, that's a whole'nother issue.

You're missing the obvious point here.
All iran has to do is mine the shiat out of the straits.

60% of the world's oil will be held up for the better part of a month, most likely a lot longer if Iran puts up a significant fight. By the time they get cleared, Oil will have skyrocketed past $1000 a barrel at least. Maybe worse. They can bring the entire world to its knees. Imagine $100 a gallon for gas.

/Yikes

Calvin Coolidge: So yeah, FDR did "provoke" Japan. But it wasn't unwarranted; there was a lot more than rhetoric involved.

It certainly wasn't unwarranted. Imperial Japan was a despicably aggressive, militarist authoritarian state. And as you correctly point out, that has nothing to do with whether or not the US deliberately provoked Japan through sustained economic warfare.


TromboneBlown: Tabitha, though I hate FDR and how he changed the direction of the country, let's get our facts straight;

YOUR sic A farkING IDIOT!

Ok, our facts are straight now.



TromboneBlown: Random, why would I argue a point as useless as read about the history of US foreign policy under the Roosevelt Administration to find out whether FDR provoked the Japanese?

They were Asian Nazi's[sic], and needed to have their asses whipped

...which, again, is without dispute (high school punctuation errors aside), but has nothing to do with the fact that Japanese were provoked by Roosevelt into attacking the US.

Aviation fuel embargo? Scrap metal embargo? Any of this ring any bells with you historians?

Christ, don't they teach this stuff in all those History Channel war-porn documentaries that you guys spend all your time beating off to?

This will get really weird really fast if Putin decides to weigh in while we're spread thin.

The barking dog doesn't bite.

Bunnyhat: What Iraq proved is that we need a new model on holding conquered land in the new age of terroist and guriella warfare.

What, the absolute joke that is Thomas Barnett's new road map? Isolating the muslim world and sovereign democracies into hostile categories because they do not fit into the global supply chain isn't a plan for success.

It's a desperate plea for an apocalypse by a military strategy savant.

Bunnyhat: zedster: Bunnyhat: zedster: The Beacon Man: FTFA: commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards warned that Tehran would respond to an attack against it by barraging Israel with missiles and controlling a key oil passageway in the Persian Gulf


Israel is already being barraged by Iran.

As for 'controlling' oil passageways, that's a laugher.

uhhh... Iran has the worlds largest shallow water sub fleet, controlling the straits will not be a challange for them. On to of that the US navy has almost no shallow water capabilities.

(400ft boats in 600 ft water depth)



All the shallow navies in the world will not help them if the USA or Israel gains control of the air.

If you think Iran's air force is a match for our own, that's a whole'nother issue.


Even tho we will have air control that won't stop their subs and SSVs (semi-submersible vessels). The Iran air force is made up of f-5 based fighters (Then again so is the US Navy (F-5 -> YF-17 -> F18) but I stop trolling) and some Russian gear, either way their crews will fail due to being out trained. The Iranian army is made up of 70s/80s Russian and American tech, BMP style APCs, Chinook copters, etc... so in the air and land they will get blown away. However, the sea is a another story. Iran I'm sure has hidden sub-bases and may even have tanker ships with hidden sub tender abilities. All it takes is a few torpedoed oil tankers and the world will throw a hissy fit. On top of that while we get screw on oil, Iran will take it overland to Russia and China. The only way to "win" would be to take out the entire Iranian sub fleet from 6 man subs t o the kilos in 24~72 hours, Not an easy task. Don't assume the US military can win it all on tech, Iraq should have disproved that. A military built for the Cold War (Deep Water, Strategic bombing, Tank v. Tank, etc...) will not fight well in a asymmetrical warfare situation. With Iran the best choice is probably to go out school and use the CIA to find ways to personally scare the shiat out of the Iranian leadership and get them to shut up (you know photos of them on vacation farking little boys, a couple of them have to have rich bastered children living the life in Europe, etc...)

First, there are plenty of sub-hunter planes. Second, once their supporting surface and air forces are depleted, those subs would be little more then nuisances, not legitimate threats.

While the strait is smaller then an open ocean, it's still a lot of water to patrol and without supporting surface ships to resupply and rearm the subs, it'll be over sooner or later.



What Iraq proved is that we need a new model on holding conquered land in the new age of terroist and guriella warfare.

If you don't think it proved that our combined armed forces are more then a match for any other countries combined armed forces, you're high.

The Iraqi army and airforce didn't stand a snowballs chance.


Right you know who else thought like you?
The brits in 1776
The turks in the Greek War of Independence
The French in North Africa

Just cause you have the biggest and baddest doesn't mean shiat if they other guy has the will and you don't

We are playing by an antiquated play book. It like when the Brits lined up as they had been thought just to get snipped from the woods. If we had shows a tour-de-force when we got to Iraq and made the price of farking with US troops really high we would know have full control.

Also, how do we find subs? If you answered sound you win. The problem is that the strait is hell for that shallow (sound bounces), a lot of large boats (make a lot of noise and good places for subs to hide). So we can throw every s-3, p-3 and blackhawk we have and still not find them. And as I said they may have mothership boats that will hard to detect from normal shipping. They are using and adapting North Korean brown water tech. We will not be fighting against the Iranians we will be fighting against national and world ratings. If the Saudis says we stop fighting guess what?

Falcc 2008-06-28 02:32:14 PM
Jesus Christ, who even cares about whether Israel exists or not?

Disney. Do you really want to piss off Disney.

"The mouse when he comes for you, he's got these black eyes, like dolls eyes. And then they roll over and .."
/lowers head

The Beacon Man: Israel is already being barraged by Iran.

Um, how?

I_Love_Cheesecake: The Beacon Man: Israel is already being barraged by Iran.

Um, how?

Via proxy, Iran equips the Grads that have been fired from Gaza (anyone know where the hell the G came from? is actually Aaza) a few times and helps train Hamas and Islamic Jihad in weapons building and tactics. Its kinds of the like the south american anti-drug forces who are payed for by the US, sure we claim their Columbian but they train here, get payed by the DEA, etc...

(bad example but all I could think of)

zedster: I_Love_Cheesecake: The Beacon Man: Israel is already being barraged by Iran.

Um, how?

Via proxy, Iran equips the Grads that have been fired from Gaza (anyone know where the hell the G came from? is actually Aaza) a few times and helps train Hamas and Islamic Jihad in weapons building and tactics. Its kinds of the like the south american anti-drug forces who are payed for by the US, sure we claim their Columbian but they train here, get payed by the DEA, etc...

(bad example but all I could think of)

It's laughable to think that a nuclear power like Israel, whose military ranks in the top five in the world, is "barraged" by some Arabs in Lebanon and occupied territories who throw rocks and lob the occasional home-made (and notoriously inaccurate) rocket onto Israeli land.

Here's an interesting thought. It's laughable to think that a nuclear power like Israel, whose military ranks in the top five in the world, is "barraged" by some Arabs in Lebanon and occupied territories who throw rocks and lob the occasional home-made (and notoriously inaccurate) rocket onto Israeli land.

What's laughable is that Israel flexes its "muscles" knowing full well it has America to fight their war. What laughable is Israel pressuring America into attacking Iran. what's even more laughable is that consistently think Israel can do not wrong.

If Israel wants to fight Iran, I say go for it. ONLY if America does not end up fighting 99% of their battle.

stupid bold tag.

Five Minute Standup: "The fridge is on your side!"
"So is God."

/obscure?

I was thinking about that earlier, but not in relation to this. Penny Arcade FTW.

I_Love_Cheesecake: zedster: I_Love_Cheesecake: The Beacon Man: Israel is already being barraged by Iran.

Um, how?

Via proxy, Iran equips the Grads that have been fired from Gaza (anyone know where the hell the G came from? is actually Aaza) a few times and helps train Hamas and Islamic Jihad in weapons building and tactics. Its kinds of the like the south american anti-drug forces who are payed for by the US, sure we claim their Columbian but they train here, get payed by the DEA, etc...

(bad example but all I could think of)

It's laughable to think that a nuclear power like Israel, whose military ranks in the top five in the world, is "barraged" by some Arabs in Lebanon and occupied territories who throw rocks and lob the occasional home-made (and notoriously inaccurate) rocket onto Israeli land.

Yeah the London bombings were a joke too, the Luftwaffe didn't even have a single B-52!

zedster:
uhhh... Iran has the worlds largest shallow water sub fleet, controlling the straits will not be a challange for them. On to of that the US navy has almost no shallow water capabilities.


Yeah...I'm sure Iran's six submarines, which have poorly trained crews and are ill supplied, will be really effective against a US carrier battle group, which have been training in anti submarine warfare for most of last century. Luckily there's a dozen of them in case Iran's rag tag sub fleet manages to sink one.

Iranian Navy

Iran has no ability to control the straights via sea power. Their navy will be annihilated immediately. Their best hope is to launch land based missiles and destroy oil tankers as they try to leave the gulf. If they are effective enough in this it could force the US to occupy the area around the straights...which would be very messy.

zedster: The brits in 1776
The turks in the Greek War of Independence
The French in North Africa

Solution: Give up imperialistic dream of conquering Iran.