wait, what?

That's the most retarded f*cking sh*t I've read in a long time. Jesus f*cking Christ these people suck. Truly, no matter who the wins this fall, they will be better than that.

Stay classy, Bush Administration. Right to the bitter end.

Didn't he try this before?

Did they clone Karl Rove.... can we call him Hot Karl?

But, but, but Cheney is the leader of the Senate. That means he's part of the legislative branch, right? Right?

I wish that Dick Cheney had live a more disadvantaged life. He would've died ages ago. Instead he's afforded the best medical care in the world, which he clearly does not deserve.

Yeah, but it's worth it because Rep. Steve Choen called him a "Barnacle."

No, really. Watch the video, it's worth it.

The Vice President does have dual legislative-executive function. If VPs really performed their duties as President of the Senate regularly, and that was a more prominent part of the job than advising the President and serving executive functions, you could make a decent argument for the VP being a legislative rather than executive office. But that would just place him under the much broader and more extensive ability of the Senate to police its own affairs.

Churchill2004: The Vice President does have dual legislative-executive function. If VPs really performed their duties as President of the Senate regularly, and that was a more prominent part of the job than advising the President and serving executive functions, you could make a decent argument for the VP being a legislative rather than executive office. But that would just place him under the much broader and more extensive ability of the Senate to police its own affairs.

Even if that were the case, he would STILL be a member of the executive branch. He's part of both, no matter what he does or how many times he tries to pretend otherwise.

I consider him more of Dingleberry in the Yak on the hill.

whiskeyinthejar

I laughed....but really, that hits a little too close to home to be funny!

I don't understand why people think this is such a weird concept. He's not just in the executive branch. He's got a role in the legislative branch too, so it's difficult to classify the position. He's President of the Senate and breaks ties. He's the only executive branch officer with legislative officer powers too.

The fact that this causes problems is inevitable. The fact that it's taken this long for them to show up is just luck. VPs have never really had the kind of power that Cheney has had, so there's been no reason for the kind of oversight that's happening now and causing problems.

FTFA: Addington: Ah, sir, perhaps the best that can be said is that the Vice President belongs neither to the executive nor to the legislative branch, but is attached by the Constitution to the latter. That's from two legal opinions issued by the office of legal counsel to the Department of Justice dated March 9th, 1961, and April, I believe, it's 18th, 1961 by, I believe, Mr. Katzenbach if I remember. . .

I'm guessing he means Nicholas Katzenbach, Attorney General under Lyndon Johnson.

Looks like an interesting guy - confronted George Wallace in the schoolhouse door to desegregate the University of Alabama. Also one of the main people behind the creation of the Warren Commission.

January 20, right? God, it can't come soon enough.

May the next set of asshats have at least a sliver of scruple.

/Sure, politics is a world of corruption.
//But the past 8 years have taken the cake.

If Obama does wind up winning, you've got to give the assist to Bush and Cheney.

When America is seriously considering putting a black man or a woman into the oval office over an old, white dude...

SOMEBODY done PHUQUED UP!

Dick Cheney refers to his branch as the "shadow government".

I wish i was kidding.

DeltaXi65: I don't understand why people think this is such a weird concept. He's not just in the executive branch. He's got a role in the legislative branch too, so it's difficult to classify the position. He's President of the Senate and breaks ties. He's the only executive branch officer with legislative officer powers too.

The fact that this causes problems is inevitable. The fact that it's taken this long for them to show up is just luck. VPs have never really had the kind of power that Cheney has had, so there's been no reason for the kind of oversight that's happening now and causing problems.

There's no problem except for blatant pigheaded lying. This asshole would claim whatever it takes to excuse him from any kind of oversight, no matter how absurd. There's no fixing that with foresight, you just need to get rid of this cocksucker. Too bad congress is too weak to do shiat about it. Farking lame asses.

Dick Cheney reminds me of the days of the Soviet premiers.

Those craggy-faced farkers, remember them? Yuri Antropov, Leonid Breshnev, all those guys.

Abner Doon: There's no fixing that with foresight, you just need to get rid of this cocksucker

This is exactly the kind of attitude that results in tossing out incumbents but not fixing any problems.

Yes, this is the kind of problem you can fix with foresight.

DeltaXi65: I don't understand why people think this is such a weird concept. He's not just in the executive branch. He's got a role in the legislative branch too, so it's difficult to classify the position. He's President of the Senate and breaks ties. He's the only executive branch officer with legislative officer powers too.

The fact that this causes problems is inevitable. The fact that it's taken this long for them to show up is just luck. VPs have never really had the kind of power that Cheney has had, so there's been no reason for the kind of oversight that's happening now and causing problems.

The problem here I think is that he's saying he's neither because he's both.

I_Love_Verdi

I recognize why people get pissed at him when he plays games with it. I just don't understand why people think the concept is so foreign that anyone related to that office is a retard for bringing it up.

It's not a clear cut question.

DeltaXi65: I don't understand why people think this is such a weird concept. He's not just in the executive branch. He's got a role in the legislative branch too, so it's difficult to classify the position.

Sorry to reply twice, but I forgot to mention something: it is NOT difficult to classify his position. He is part of the executive branch, and he is also part of the legislative branch. How is that difficult?

He is simply pretending that these two things are mutually exclusive, when it is very clear that they are not. Say I work two jobs, one full time for Acme Inc. and one part time for Joeblow Associates. Cheney's assertion here is like saying that because I work for Joeblow, I'm not an Acme employee. It's simply ridiculous, and only someone as evil as Cheney would even attempt it.

I know the administration doesn't pay attention to it, but for the record

Section 1: President and Vice President

Clause 1: Executive power
The Executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice-President chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:

Churchill2004: Abner Doon: There's no fixing that with foresight, you just need to get rid of this cocksucker

This is exactly the kind of attitude that results in tossing out incumbents but not fixing any problems.

Yes, this is the kind of problem you can fix with foresight.

Meh, whatever. I guess what I'm saying is, you can spell it out with a new law if you want, but it's so obvious that if someone is going to claim this shiat, there's no limit to what they'll claim. At some point it just becomes tilting at windmills, and you really just need to get rid of the problem itself (Cheney).

This administration brings "playing dumb" to a whole new level.

DeltaXi65: I_Love_Verdi

I recognize why people get pissed at him when he plays games with it. I just don't understand why people think the concept is so foreign that anyone related to that office is a retard for bringing it up.

It's not a clear cut question.

Please explain how it's not clear cut. Give a rational picture of why Cheney is not part of the executive branch. Please.

Abner Doon

What's difficult is that because of the joint status, there's a question over whether or not certain rules that apply to the executive branch apply to his office. Executive Orders don't bind the legislative branch. So there's a legal question as to whether the hybrid office is bound by rules that are only binding on the executive branch.

It's not cut and dried, and you can't analogize it to the private sector. And I don't buy that only Cheney would try this. If this was never a question before, why did Katzenbach prepare a memo in '61?

Cheney's not evil. He's just got creative lawyers.

Let me get this strait:

Bush edits bills when he signs them with signing statements so he isn't part of the executive branch either. He also skips warrants and is in charge of holding people without trial so I guess he's in the judicial branch too. The supreme court has taken it upon themselves to select the president when there is a dispute so I guess they're in the legislative branch and the electoral college.

So now we have 3 not-so-separate branches of government with minimal checks and balances. These tards have completely farked up our government.

Abner Doon: DeltaXi65: I don't understand why people think this is such a weird concept. He's not just in the executive branch. He's got a role in the legislative branch too, so it's difficult to classify the position.

Sorry to reply twice, but I forgot to mention something: it is NOT difficult to classify his position. He is part of the executive branch, and he is also part of the legislative branch. How is that difficult?

He is simply pretending that these two things are mutually exclusive, when it is very clear that they are not. Say I work two jobs, one full time for Acme Inc. and one part time for Joeblow Associates. Cheney's assertion here is like saying that because I work for Joeblow, I'm not an Acme employee. It's simply ridiculous, and only someone as evil as Cheney would even attempt it.

This is exactly right. And it means that Cheney's office is subject to more oversight, not less; subject to disclosure under both Senate and Executive Branch rules.

That his chief counsel, now his chief of staff, is willing to argue with a straight face that Cheney and his office are not subject to any oversight is appalling. How come these clowns aren't laughed out of town?

Abner Doon

I'm not arguing that he's not part of the executive branch. I'm saying that you can make a rational legal argument that he isn't. I would look at Article I, which deals with the Legislative branch. It is the only part of the Constitution that actually gives the VP a power other than filling in if the President dies. I would also look to how the office is funded.

But I'm not making this argument, so don't argue the point with me. I'm just saying that it's possible to make the argument, and the rationale passes the laugh test.

DeltaXi65: Abner Doon

What's difficult is that because of the joint status, there's a question over whether or not certain rules that apply to the executive branch apply to his office. Executive Orders don't bind the legislative branch. So there's a legal question as to whether the hybrid office is bound by rules that are only binding on the executive branch.

It's not cut and dried, and you can't analogize it to the private sector. And I don't buy that only Cheney would try this. If this was never a question before, why did Katzenbach prepare a memo in '61?

Cheney's not evil. He's just got creative lawyers.

I appreciate the explanation (it's rare that anyone is that lucid), but I just don't agree at all. It is pretty clear to me that the rule "All executive branch members must X" is not modified by the statement "Y is also a member of the legislative branch."

I guess I do agree that it might be best for someone to come out and put that into law somehow. I forget how obvious things aren't necessarily so when you are a lawyer. Can congress pass a law that would clear this up? I don't even know.

/And yes, I honestly do believe that Cheney is evil. Not really for this issue, just in general.

DeltaXi65: But I'm not making this argument, so don't argue the point with me. I'm just saying that it's possible to make the argument, and the rationale passes the laugh test.

Yes, I figured you were mostly playing devil's advocate or whatever. I do appreciate the response.

DeltaXi65: I would also look to how the office is funded.

How is the office funded, if you know? I would assume it's funded the same way as the office of the President, but I'm not really sure where to find that (and honestly I never learned much about that exactly).

I did notice that there really isn't much about the VP in the Constitution or amendments, that's probably the only reason anything of this kind would fly at all. I'll add it to my list of things that I wish the Constitution was more explicit about.

Abner Doon: Can congress pass a law that would clear this up?

What they should do is pass a law sidestepping the question of whether or not Congress has authority over the VP like that, and simply pass a law saying if he doesn't submit he doesn't get any expenditures from the Treasury for his office, staff, travel, etc.

The VP's role is Constitutionally unique. It isn't true to simply make a blanket statement that "the Vice President is part of the executive branch". It's more complicated than that. The Vice President is the only part of the entire "executive branch" that doesn't answer to the President (he might in practice, but he doesn't have to as a matter of law. He can't be fired by the President). And the only actual inherent power that the office has is a legislative one. So it does raise some questions.

But not the kind of questions that should get Cheney off the hook here.

Abner Doon: I'll add it to my list of things that I wish the Constitution was more explicit about

Just get rid of the position entirely. And while we're at it, if we're making Constitutional changes to the nature of the executive, scrap the idea of a one-man President. Have a three-man council with staggered six year terms, and a single term limit. That would go a long way towards dispelling the idea that the President's position is supposed to be like a monarch's, with broad inherent power and authority to set the legislative agenda, that is the root of a lot our problems.

"Who's that knocking on my door? Who's that knocking on my door?
Who's that knocking on my door?" said the fair Young Maiden....

"It's only me from over the sea" says Barnacle Dick Darth Vader.
"It's only me from over the sea" says Barnacle Dick Darth Vader.

"What if you should go to jail? What if you should go to jail?
What if you should go to jail?" said the fair young maiden.

"I'll swing me big balls, and knock down the walls!" said Barnacle Dick Darth Vader.
"I'll swing me big balls, and knock down the walls!" said Barnacle Dick Darth Vader.





ARRrrrrrrrrr

I don't think these guys even know anymore when they are dissembling.

Sure wish I lived in a country where sleazy lying lawyers like Addington were taken out and hung from the nearest tree instead of this farce where the rule of law has been suspended and all they can do is insult him.

/wonders if the rule of law will ever return, regardless of how the elections go

I thought he was more like a pustule on the butt of the USA.

Abner Doon

I honestly don't know how the office is funded. I thought I recalled something from when he tried to make this argument before where the House Appropriations committee threatened to cut his funding. I can't remember whether or not he's funded through the Legislative Operations appropriation bill or something else. I'll have to look it up.

I still can't get over the arrogance of these people. And how Congressmen have no gumption to take offense and fight back. Sad. Sad.

Steve Cohen is my representative. Nice guy.