Quick Summary: McCain's advisers are steering him to more of the same disastrous economic policies that we have been suffering through for the past eight years.

And Obama is trying to end those policies now (even before he has become President).

This was also mentioned in Jim Hightower's column today, possibly the most sensible left winger alive.

oldebayer: This was also mentioned in Jim Hightower's column today, possibly the most sensible left winger alive.

This one?

This is why I'm so glad Barack got the nomination. Bill and Hill would have lots of explaining since he signed the thing into law.

Republicans aren't stupid. They knew who they wanted to run against.

Link (new window)

BTW. Holy shiat. The Hillary meltdown is weak compared to the deluge of craptitude coming from McCain.

Is any of this being covered on CNN or Fox?

Party Boy: Is any of this being covered on CNN or Fox?

CNN, CNBC, & MSNBC have the story on their sites. Fox does not.

brigid_fitch: Party Boy: Is any of this being covered on CNN or Fox?

CNN, CNBC, & MSNBC have the story on their sites. Fox does not.

Well, Fox is independent.

/from reality

Party Boy: BTW. Holy shiat. The Hillary meltdown is weak compared to the deluge of craptitude coming from McCain.

Is any of this being covered on CNN or Fox?

Oh just wait. It's only June right now. The GOP will bring out even more pathetic talking points in the months to come, and we can await the deluge of paid shills here. I for one, am excited. My ignore list is fairly barren at this point.

It's like a group of people are all taking spoonfuls from the same sundae, except each of them thinks it's a different flavor, and they all think the rest of them are idiots for eating the sundae... of lies... while they eat the sundae of truth.

Hypocrisy tastes better when you only point it out in other people.

/mm ice cream

John McCain should be proud to support free markets. Like Herbert Hoover before him, he will show Americans that the soft socialism of the left gives rise to authoritarianism. Hopefully as a next move he will demand that Bear Sterns give back all of its bailout money. God bless free markets, and God bless John McCain.

Is there ANY problem facing America that Obama can't solve with more government, more taxes and more regulation?

McCain Democrat: So Obama is wasting his time with a 10 year old issue, when he should be focused on matters of 08. McCain wouldn't waste his time on decade old nonsense like this. I suck cock

You don't say, McD?

brigid_fitch: Party Boy: Is any of this being covered on CNN or Fox?

CNN, CNBC, & MSNBC have the story on their sites. Fox does not.

It's on Fox too...

'Enron Loophole' a Start, But Candidates Offer Big Plans for Energy Savings

LocalCynic: John McCain should be proud to support free markets. Like Herbert Hoover before him, he will show Americans that the soft socialism of the left gives rise to authoritarianism.

And like Herbert Hoover, he will oversee an economic collapse.

The only difference is that McCain will probably contribute to it, rather than simply being ineffective. Also, McCain won't be President. (I hope.)

BravadoGT: Is there ANY problem facing America that Obama can't solve with more government, more taxes and more regulation?

Yes, because when you leave industries without regulation, they're not tempted to do anything hinkey...

LocalCynic: John McCain should be proud to support free markets. Like Herbert Hoover before him, he will show Americans that the soft socialism of the left gives rise to authoritarianism. Hopefully as a next move he will demand that Bear Sterns give back all of its bailout money. God bless free markets, and God bless John McCain.

This is part of the problem, innit? If folks really did care about free markets, instead of the sheltered ones we have that are steeped with protectionism, we might be doing OK. But, instead we have skewed markets...

I should have specified TV, but thanks to the below posters

brigid_fitch: CNN, CNBC, & MSNBC have the story on their sites. Fox does not.

thanks!

BravadoGT:
It's on Fox too...


and covering the "McCain co-chairman" no less.

ElQue: Oh just wait. It's only June right now.

Well see.

What a maverick!

Party Boy:
ElQue: Oh just wait. It's only June right now.

We'll see.


That's all I'm saying: This is June, people. The election is in November. The political atmosphere will only get worse before it gets better.

NeuroticRocker: McCain Democrat: So Obama is wasting his time with a 10 year old issue, when he should be focused on matters of 08. McCain wouldn't waste his time on decade old nonsense like this. I suck cock

You don't say, McD?

Don't mention danlpoon, he might be like beetlejuice. Lets enjoy this time without his dumbass comments

It's Interesting When People Die: ...(4 more years -domestic)

[Link])Kristol's belief that Bush might attack Iran before leaving office is not new. In April, he told Bill Bennett that it wasn't "out of the question" that Bush would consider such a strike because "people are overdoing how much of a lame duck the president is."

The claim that Obama's potential election could force Bush's hand also isn't new. Earlier this month, far-right pseudo scholar Daniel Pipes told National Review Online that "President Bush will do something" if the Democratic nominee won. "Should it be Mr. McCain that wins, he'll punt," said Pipes.

Both Kristol and Pipes apparently agree with President Bush's claim in March that McCain's "not going to change" his foreign policy.

Neocons agree: 4 more years - mid east.
and/or
Booga-booga! Bombing of Iran is inevitable, either by McCain or Bush.

ElQue: ...

shiat, its been some ride already. buckle up, I guess.

Good man, Obama.

LocalCynic: John McCain should be proud to support free markets. Like Herbert Hoover before him, he will show Americans that the soft socialism of the left gives rise to authoritarianism. Hopefully as a next move he will demand that Bear Sterns give back all of its bailout money. God bless free markets, and God bless John McCain.

Soft socialism of the left? Masterful. 9/10

Ron Paul Revere: FTFA:

"The truth is Barack Obama is following John McCain's lead to close a Wall Street loophole that was signed into law by President Bill Clinton," McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds said in a statement. "John McCain has supported bipartisan efforts to close this loophole and will work to address abuses in oil speculation. Barack Obama has voted the party line for Democrats who claim the loophole is fixed. The fact that Barack Obama is attacking John McCain, despite McCain's leadership on the issue, shows that Barack Obama is driven by the partisan attacks that Americans are tired of."

Is there any truth to this? Did McCain fight against this (recently anyway)? Did Obama vote for it?

There is truth to that. McCain voted against a measure that would have closed it, but it was attached to something else that he probably didn't want for different reasons. He did come out against this first.

Having that douche Gramm as one of his big advisors doesn't help his credibility on this much though.

Does obama plan to pnv it?

Code_Archeologist: And Obama is trying to end those policies now (even before he has become President).

In case some of you have forgotten over the last 8 years, this is what leadership looks like.

So what if McCain's top economic adviser is the guy that introduced the Enron loophole and is the husband of a lady that was on the Enron board of directors after she left the trade commission futures board or whatever.

It's not like McCain's senior adviser was a lobbyist for that act.

oh...uh...he is, you say.

Well, at least we know that McCain has always been consistent on this issue and wouldn't let alternate interests effect his better judgement.

oh...uh...he spoke out against it and then changed his tune when he brought these two people on board his presidential campaign bandwagon?

well

...damn

Ron Paul Revere:
Is there any truth to this? Did McCain fight against this (recently anyway)? Did Obama vote for it?

Obama wasn't around at the time, I think. As in, actually not in office, as opposed to his more recent 'not around to do the job because I'm busy campaigning' which has resulted in his record staying clean of much anything (positive or negative). To be fair, McCain's not really any better attendancewise, so while my complaint is genuine here I'm not making it from any partisanry.

bulldg4life: oh...uh...he spoke out against it and then changed his tune when he brought these two people on board his presidential campaign bandwagon?

I don't think thats quite what happened. The rest is true though.

Razorwolf: It's like a group of people are all taking spoonfuls from the same sundae, except each of them thinks it's a different flavor, and they all think the rest of them are idiots for eating the sundae... of lies... while they eat the sundae of truth.

Hypocrisy tastes better when you only point it out in other people.

/mm ice cream

Its amazing that people still only believe the other side is so wrong after all they have seen and read.

Kettle=Pot

My pots blacker than yours!!!!!!'

God people are stupid as hell

steamingpile: Razorwolf: It's like a group of people are all taking spoonfuls from the same sundae, except each of them thinks it's a different flavor, and they all think the rest of them are idiots for eating the sundae... of lies... while they eat the sundae of truth.

Hypocrisy tastes better when you only point it out in other people.

/mm ice cream

Its amazing that people still only believe the other side is so wrong after all they have seen and read.

Kettle=Pot

My pots blacker than yours!!!!!!'

God people are stupid as hell

Sounds like someone wants to equivocate to make themselves feel better about the losers they support.

bartink: I don't think thats quite what happened. The rest is true though.

He spoke out against it in 2002 and 2003 and pretty much thought it was the worst things happening to the energy market.

Homeboy comes on as the eco-adviser in 2006 and he suddenly stops talking about it in his energy policies and starts pushing alternate solutions to high prices.

It's like he forgot it was an issue.

He then doesn't support the farm bill (he seemed to oppose it for various reasons). Then it is leaked by multiple sources that he didn't like the regulatory language in the bill (what would close the enron loophole).

Hate to break it to everybody, but he changed his tune like a motherf*cker when Gramm got a hold of his campaign.

bartink: Sounds like someone wants to equivocate to make themselves feel better about the losers they support.

When you look at issues with a vastly different ideology, you tend to see all opponents as identical. People complain about the "they're the same," but in many ways they are. It depends on your viewpoint.

Granted, there are vast differences between McCain and Obama, but the only ones that I see are authoritarian or more authoritarian. You can see how it's easy to lump them together.

Wow, McCain is getting more blame for every problem in this country...even more than Bush is.

helix400: Wow, McCain is getting more blame for every problem in this country...even more than Bush is.

Just as well they never did anything wrong, huh?

spamdog: Just as well they never did anything wrong, huh?

Thank you spamdog, for bringing the stupid back into the forum.

helix400: Thank you spamdog, for bringing the stupid back into the forum.

No problem, thanks for bringing the victimhood.

helix400: Thank you spamdog, for bringing the stupid back into the forum.

Yeah, I can't imagine blaming someone that has the bill sponsor and lobbyist for that bill on his staff.

I mean, why question him?

We have gas prices spiraling out of control and he went from thinking that loophole was a terrible thing to pretty much not talking about it anymore.

Why should we question him?

Maybe we should go back to blaming the democrats for granting immunity to telecoms. That would be awesome!

oldebayer: This was also mentioned in Jim Hightower's column today, possibly the most sensible left winger alive.

Hightower?

Wait a minute, the Enron Loophole has been closed for a few days now.

"Representative Allen noted that the recently enacted Farm Bill, which he supported, closed the so-called 'Enron Loophole' to hold oil speculators accountable to the same rules that already govern on-market traders." (Office Of U.S. Rep. Tom Allen, "Rep. Tom Allen To Cosponsor Pump Act To Stop Oil Speculation That Drives Up Energy Prices For Middle Class Families And Small Businesses," Press Release, 6/19/08) source

Here's the timeline best I can see:

* In 2000, former Republican senator Phil Gramm inserted legislation creating the Enron loophole.
* Bill Clinton signed it into law.
* Two or three in 2002 and 2003, McCain voted on amendments to close the Enron loophole. It was defeated every time.
* Very recently, legislation was put into the massive Farm Bill to close it.
* McCain was one of the few congressman to vote against the Farm Bill, because he's very anti-pork. (Lots of Farkers hated the Farm bill too for this reason).
* Bush vetoed it on spending grounds. Congress on June 18th overrode the veto (again, McCain voting against it). Now the Enron loophole is closed. Democrats admitted this a few days ago.
* For some reason, Obama is now saying we need to close the loophole, and is blaming McCain.
* Critics point out that McCain's economic advisor is Phil Gramm. McCain's spokesman immediately stated that McCain's position has always been against the Enron loophole (notwithstanding Phil Gramm being on his team).
My sources were link1, link2, and link3 (link2 is the best one...lots of goodies in there. I'm really starting to like thepage.time.com.)

Anyway, I'm really confused why Obama is claiming he's going to close the loophole even though other Democrats have been proudly announcing it's already closed. And I'm also confused why Obama is attacking McCain on this, even though McCain has always opposed the loophole and tried to close it multiple times.

helix400: Wait a minute, the Enron Loophole has been closed for a few days now.

"Representative Allen noted that the recently enacted Farm Bill, which he supported, closed the so-called 'Enron Loophole' to hold oil speculators accountable to the same rules that already govern on-market traders." (Office Of U.S. Rep. Tom Allen, "Rep. Tom Allen To Cosponsor Pump Act To Stop Oil Speculation That Drives Up Energy Prices For Middle Class Families And Small Businesses," Press Release, 6/19/08) source

Here's the timeline best I can see:

* In 2000, former Republican senator Phil Gramm inserted legislation creating the Enron loophole.
* Bill Clinton signed it into law.
* Two or three in 2002 and 2003, McCain voted on amendments to close the Enron loophole. It was defeated every time.
* Very recently, legislation was put into the massive Farm Bill to close it.
* McCain was one of the few congressman to vote against the Farm Bill, because he's very anti-pork. (Lots of Farkers hated the Farm bill too for this reason).
* Bush vetoed it on spending grounds. Congress on June 18th overrode the veto (again, McCain voting against it). Now the Enron loophole is closed. Democrats admitted this a few days ago.
* For some reason, Obama is now saying we need to close the loophole, and is blaming McCain.
* Critics point out that McCain's economic advisor is Phil Gramm. McCain's spokesman immediately stated that McCain's position has always been against the Enron loophole (notwithstanding Phil Gramm being on his team).
My sources were link1, link2, and link3 (link2 is the best one...lots of goodies in there. I'm really starting to like thepage.time.com.)

Anyway, I'm really confused why Obama is claiming he's going to close the loophole even though other Democrats have been proudly announcing it's already closed. And I'm also confused why Obama is attacking McCain on this, even though McCain has always opposed the loophole and tried to close it multiple times.

STOP MAKING SENSE!

This is really odd. Obama is wanting to close something that Democrats proudly announced they closed a few days ago (when they overrode the veto on the Farm Bill).

Senator Carl Levin (D-MI): "Our five-year quest to close the Enron Loophole has finally been successful." (Office of U.S. Senator Carl Levin, "Senate Floor Statement On Oil And Gasoline Prices," Press Release, 6/10/08)

Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT): "Last week, Congress passed a farm bill. It would close the Enron loophole, and now the president has threatened to veto the legislation to close the Enron loophole. I'd like to know what the oil executives think about that." (U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, Hearing, 5/21/08)

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN): "As You Know, The Farm Bill Closed The Enron Loophole. I'm Hoping That That Will Be Helpful." (U.S. Committee On Commerce, Science And Transportation, Hearing, 6/3/08)

Representative Joe Donnelly (D-IN): "The New Farm Bill ... Includes A Provision That Closes The Enron Loophole." (Office Of U.S. Rep. Joe Donnelly, "Rep. Donnelly Praises Federal Investigation Of Oil Speculation," Press Release, 5/30/08)

Representative Tom Allen (D-ME): "The Recently Enacted Farm Bill ... Closed The So-Called 'Enron Loophole." (Office Of U.S. Rep. Tom Allen, "Rep. Tom Allen To Cosponsor Pump Act To Stop Oil Speculation That Drives Up Energy Prices For Middle Class Families And Small Businesses," Press Release, 6/19/08)

Phil Gramm, the anti-American traitor that crippled the nation economically with BCCI, tax funding for the delivery of American military weaponry to Iran, tax funding for the CIA's smuggling of cocaine from South America into the USA by Oliver North plus other GOP-employed cocaine traffickers under the approval of George Herbert Walker Bush + Ronald Reagan, American funding for the Contra terrorists who murdered nuns plus ran abduction murder operations for the Republican Party, created the laws to enable ENRON's anti-American energy-terrorism plus economic-terrorism operations, and was instrumental in the creation of many of the anti-American economic terrorist devices so very often used by the anti-American Republican Party.

helix400: WAnyway, I'm really confused why Obama is claiming he's going to close the loophole even though other Democrats have been proudly announcing it's already closed. And I'm also confused why Obama is attacking McCain on this, even though McCain has always opposed the loophole and tried to close it multiple times.

helix400: Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT): "Last week, Congress passed a farm bill. It would close the Enron loophole, and now the president has threatened to veto the legislation to close the Enron loophole. I'd like to know what the oil executives think about that." (U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, Hearing, 5/21/08)

My compliments for taking the time to research the issue, bring clarity to an otherwise complex political question, and making sure that those of us that care about these election "talking points" get to see your sources.

If more Americans cared about the actual events instead of what the pundits on both sides are shoving down their throat, we would have a fully functional democracy that is based on an educated electorate.

Seriously, awesome work!

To make things even more confusing, I had O'Riley on in the back ground last week and I heard HIM blaming the Enron Loophole. It was his lead "Talking Point" where he said the problem with rising gas prices was with the oil speculators.

Sooo...McCain, Obama, AND O'Riley all agree on this issue. An issue which is already closed.

Soo..what's the story here?

Does the farm bill not do ENOUGH to close the loophole? Is it going to take some time for the closing of this loophole to have an affect? Seriously, this is all so odd since it seems all parties agree the Enron Loophole is a problem, but no one is mentioning that the problem was fixed.

helix400:

Anyway, I'm really confused why Obama is claiming he's going to close the loophole even though other Democrats have been proudly announcing it's already closed. And I'm also confused why Obama is attacking McCain on this, even though McCain has always opposed the loophole and tried to close it multiple times.

Thank you for your time to make sense of this.
It won't effect the wackos, but those of us in the sensible center appreciate it.

helix400: This is really odd. Obama is wanting to close something that Democrats proudly announced they closed a few days ago (when they overrode the veto on the Farm Bill).

Well, the article claims that closing the loophole is 1 item in a 4 item plan that also includes policies: "to ensure that US energy futures cannot be traded in offshore, unregulated markets; to work toward an international regulation of oil futures markets, in cooperation with like-minded countries; and to have both the Federal Trade Commission and the Department of Justice investigate the oil markets". In fairness, you don't stop touting your 4 part plan just because #1 has been tackled. Still, I wonder if he is satisfied with the loophole closure in the farm bill or if he thinks it's only a partial measure.

Also, he seems to be attacking McCain for his overall energy policy, which focuses on "revers[ing] his opposition to drilling offshore; [and] support[ing] a holiday for consumers from paying federal taxes on gasoline". Obama thinks the focus should be on regulation and investigation, not expanded drilling and lower taxes. Of course, he can't help taking some swipes at Graham as well, while he's in the neighborhood.

helix400: For some reason, Obama is now saying we need to close the loophole, and is blaming McCain.

Your list agrees, though, that this is primarily a GOP pander to moneyed interests, with some of the folks in question working on the current GOP presidential campaign in influential positions.

If McCain were running for the libertarian party, I'd say your assessment (which implies that Obama is attacking him for no good reason) would be right on. But the man is running for the GOP spot.

/GOP has an ideological need to deregulate financial markets and give energy companies a reacharound. McCain is a good enough guy running for a corrupt party.