Ron Paul Revere: FTFA:

The BBPA sent a letter to Chancellor Alistair Darling last November ahead of the duty hike in which it claimed brewers earn just 0.7p profit on each pint they sell, while the Treasury receives 33p. The trade body said the profits of the major brewers in the UK had fallen 78 per cent between 2004 and 2006.

In this year's Budget the Government raised duty on a pint of beer by 4p, and pushed through a 55p rise on spirits and a 14p increase on a bottle of wine.

Sounds more like excessive taxes are the root causes, while the smoking ban and the credit crunch are the proverbial straw breaking the camel's back.

How's that masochistic tax system working for ya?



Cigs: chill out and try one

I wonder what taxes will be raised in the U.K. to make up for the lost tax revenue?

skatedrifter: englishgirlssmoking.com pic

That is a fetish I had not heard of, I learned something today.

Ron Paul Revere: skatedrifter: Cigs: chill out and try one

Fun fact: I already have that nasty habit.

Try addressing the argument.

You missed the 'chill' part of my last comment

bmr68: I wonder what taxes will be raised in the U.K. to make up for the lost tax revenue?

More speeding cameras. They will probably have to lower the speed limit in their highway system to 30 mph to get the volume they need. Perhaps they could put a speed limit on sidewalk. Don't want to be going too fast and knock over an old lady.

Ron Paul Revere

Fun fact: I already have that nasty habit.



Hey, some of my best friends are English girls! Watch your posts, buddy.

Don't you britons know how to farking drink at home. Dudes, learn to porch.

Last Christmas Eve I went to one my old local pubs with my brother. We were the only people in there. Christmas Eve. And that was before the smoking ban. I think Ron Paul Revere has it right when he blames the high beer taxes. Pubs can't get round them like supermarkets can.

The joke is that the government craps on stopping about binge drinking and kids drinking, but the high beer taxes hit pubs the hardest, and it's harder for kids to get beer in a pub than from a supermarket or offy. Or at least it used to be that way when I was growing up.

News that annual beer sales have slipped below 50m hectolitres will come as a further blow to an industry already suffering as pubs go out of business and brewers are forced to consolidate.

What does 50m hectolitres come to in real measurements? Gotta be at least 3 parsecs or maybe half a dozen pecks.

Obvious solution: cigarette flavored beer.

Fags.

I wonder if they have a moonshine industry coming up in the UK. It's a natural response to excess taxation.

Let me be one of the masses to say ...

shiat!

They fell 1.7% since the smoking ban -- entirely in line with how they were falling prior to the smoking ban. Nice Post-Hoc-Ergo-Propter-Hoc subby. The Torygraph is at least more sane

The effect of the decline in consumption, combined with rising utility and commodity costs, an increase in beer duty, and the impact of the consumer downturn and smoking ban is having a catastrophic impact on Britain's pubs.

Yes folks, the prime reason beer sales are falling in pubs, is that fewer people are drinking beer, and fewer and fewer people consider beer their drink of choice. The smoking ban only affects pub sales -- these trends are evident in off-sales as well.

BigSnatch: Fags.

You owe me a new keyboard.

Jesus on the taxes. And people wonder why beer's so expensive over there.

The smoking ban's had effects on bar and nightclub growth here in the states as well (in smoking-banned states, such as my own native CA). Unless you pick up the "unbiased objective studies" from anti-smoking agencies, in which, hey, no change at all!

Cardinal Carnage: Let me be one of the masses to say ...

shiat!

Why? You know just because other people don't buy it doesn't mean you can't.

Popejp2: Don't you britons know how to farking drink at home. Dudes, learn to porch.

Dude this is England - no one has a porch! (The houses are too small, and generally the sidewalk is all of a couple of feet from the front of the house.)

Anyway, I seem to recall pubs were closing in record numbers even before the smoking ban, and whenever I go for a pint or six, the pubs I go to are still packed. I'd blame the taxes before I'd blame the smoking ban.

quadropheniac: And people wonder why beer's so expensive over there.

You're farking kidding me! Pub Beer is cheaper in the UK than I've ever seen it in the US, especially considering that your pints are short measure.

you know....as a news/not news source, FARK should really start a "BEER IN CRISIS" page to cover this growing crisis....I mean they already have a few hundred "GAS PRICE - FUEL CRISIS" pages...this is much more important


just a thought

*shaking fist* Gosh dangit you Brits...get out there and START DRINKING!!!

Oh, and tell your govt to chill on the taxes.

Oh no, smoking and drinking is down. What a hellhole the UK has become, rapidly filling up with sober and nice-smelling citizens.

Whatever.

gwowen: You're farking kidding me! Pub Beer is cheaper in the UK than I've ever seen it in the US, especially considering that your pints are short measure.

If you assume that a pound is equal to a dollar, sure. Adjusted for exchange though, hell no.

more for me

Personally here in the states, I NEVER go to a bar anymore. I didn't like going much before but it was a place where I could get a drink and have a smoke. Now that I can't smoke there, I drink at home.

Yeah it's not scientific, but they've lost about 1000 in revenue annually for good. I don't see the need to go to some place that restricts me and tells me what I can and cannot do.

Fascinating. The religion of secular humanism going too fundy is the cause of the new depression. Last time it was prohibition of alcohol that fuel the public depression leading to the Great Depression. This time it'll be transfats and cigarettes. The religious fundies did us in last time. This time it's the new class of do gooder, the busy body liberal.

Know your rights
All three of em
HAH!

BigSnatch: Fags

I see what you did there.

People are drinking and smoking less?
...and people are complaining.

People will complain about anything.

haddie: People will complain about anything.

Some of us enjoy drinking and smoking, and some enjoy having locally owned economic-gain generating establishments in which to do both. Some of us also have a problem with the government telling its citizenry what it can and can't do when there's no valid reason for such an order, and some of the same dislike being taxed to all hell for it as well.

quadropheniac: haddie: People will complain about anything.

Some of us enjoy drinking and smoking, and some enjoy having locally owned economic-gain generating establishments in which to do both. Some of us also have a problem with the government telling its citizenry what it can and can't do when there's no valid reason for such an order, and some of the same dislike being taxed to all hell for it as well.

I also assume you live in a country that doesn't have socialized medicine.
Perhaps there is sometimes a reason why the government doesn't want its people trying to drink themselves to the hospital. Perhaps it is good that the citizenry can't afford to drink themselves into a stupor every weekend. If you want cheap booze so badly, make it yourself. If not, suck it up and pay a few extra dollars.

haddie: I also assume you live in a country that doesn't have socialized medicine.

Hence my problem with universal health care. The second you force the government to pay for the health of everyone, you also give them the responsibility of making sure that no one does anything naughty.

Perhaps there is sometimes a reason why the government doesn't want its people trying to drink themselves to the hospital.

Because goodness knows that's the only purpose of alcohol. To get extremely drunk immediately. No one enjoys a beer at all.

Perhaps it is good that the citizenry can't afford to drink themselves into a stupor every weekend.

The citizenry? Every last one of them?

azmoviez: Personally here in the states, I NEVER go to a bar anymore. I didn't like going much before but it was a place where I could get a drink and have a smoke. Now that I can't smoke there, I drink at home.

Yeah it's not scientific, but they've lost about 1000 in revenue annually for good. I don't see the need to go to some place that restricts me and tells me what I can and cannot do.

Here's the thing, you pink lunged angels...

You know how great it is to have a good dive bar up your sleeve?
It's smoky, it's seedy, it's yours. And the fact that it's smoky and seedy kinda makes it even better, because it's a bar, and that's how a bar should be. Alright now, you see those old guys that are always there at your favorite dive bars? They are fixtures, they add to the character of the experience, they'll spout off ill-conceived wisdom, without them it's not the same. Well, by and large, they smoke. Their continued business keeps those dive bars open in the first place.

Kill the smoke and you're taking out the foundations of the business owners that pay the rent in those holes of depravity that you love to go to. Dudes will just buy their own bottle and smoke and drink at home.

If you've got gambling in your bars, same deal. People like to smoke and commit other vices, that's just the way it works, and gambling also feeds into the bottom line of your favorite drink spot. Kill the smokes, and gambling (and the taxes from it) suffers.

I get that the tide is too high to turn back now, so I'm not going to bother arguing that private business owners have a right to dictate the policies of their own establishments, or that you're entering these places by your own free will. My state is switching to smoke-free in January. Just saying, you pussies who don't want your popped collar to smell of smoke on Sunday are killing a cultural institution. The dive bar. You're slitting it's throat, and personally I feel it's a tragedy.


/First they came for my coffee shop, and I didn't speak up, because I didn't drink coffee...

quadropheniac: haddie: I also assume you live in a country that doesn't have socialized medicine.

Hence my problem with universal health care. The second you force the government to pay for the health of everyone, you also give them the responsibility of making sure that no one does anything naughty.


Fine by me. You claim you don't want others deciding what you have to do.
So, you choose to live somewhere that doesn't have socialized medicine. Good for you. Now if you go back and realize that the people of the country in question (not yours) who voted politicians in long ago who decided to have socialized medicine (democratically), and have since had no desire to remove it (democratically), I must say that you should listen to your own advice and stop trying to impose an opinion or action onto others. Your country has cheap booze and the highest price of health care on the planet. Your choice. However, to insult other countries for trying to keep their citizens healthier through taxes? C'mon.


Because goodness knows that's the only purpose of alcohol. To get extremely drunk immediately. No one enjoys a beer at all.


If you are going our to have a beer, chances are a few extra bucks isn't going to be a problem. Spending less than 15 dollars shouldn't really take have an impact on you. However, I would imagine that the people used to spending 50 will be set back a bit. Hence my point. If you are truly complaining about taxes when all you are looking for a is "to enjoy a beer", then you must really love whining.


The citizenry? Every last one of them?


Where did I say every last one? Putting words in my mouth doesn't change my validity. If that were the case, though, yes. I think it is ridiculous for anyone to drink that heavily, and I think that taxes are a good way of keeping such heavy use at bay.

Either way, the simple fact is: Alcohol isn't good for you. Neither are cigarettes. To be upset that people have to pay more in a country (Note: Not your country) that has socialized health care to obtain these goods seems a little bit like whining for the sake of reading one's own post.

gwowen: They fell 1.7% since the smoking ban -- entirely in line with how they were falling prior to the smoking ban. Nice Post-Hoc-Ergo-Propter-Hoc subby. The Torygraph is at least more saneThe effect of the decline in consumption, combined with rising utility and commodity costs, an increase in beer duty, and the impact of the consumer downturn and smoking ban is having a catastrophic impact on Britain's pubs.Yes folks, the prime reason beer sales are falling in pubs, is that fewer people are drinking beer, and fewer and fewer people consider beer their drink of choice. The smoking ban only affects pub sales -- these trends are evident in off-sales as well.


And with that, the cost of beer will be plummeting to re-capture the consumers.

It's not ALL bad....

azmoviez: Personally here in the states, I NEVER go to a bar anymore. I didn't like going much before but it was a place where I could get a drink and have a smoke. Now that I can't smoke there, I drink at home.

Yeah it's not scientific, but they've lost about 1000 in revenue annually for good. I don't see the need to go to some place that restricts me and tells me what I can and cannot do.

I seldom go out to bars to drink these days. It's not the smoking ban, or high prices, but the crowds of yobs standing out front of the bars smoking, blocking access and begging money. Panhandlers have found new grounds for begging - they're like roaches, you can't figure out where they came from and can't get rid of them. Street fights near bars have increased post smoking bans, and the residents living near what used to be quite watering holes are not amused.

Stay home, invite some friends over, get some munchables in, a couple cases of beer and your good to go. Plus you get to control the music, the people you let in, and have a designated smoking area.

Must admit that part of me thinks the smoking bans are a good idea. I just think that the municipalities involved could have come up with a better way of implementing them.

Is it really that hard to step outside for a smoke? It's sad that smokers have to change all their habits, just because they're too lazy to get off their arses and go outside to smoke.

/used to smoke
//didn't do it in restaurants

"in which it claimed brewers earn just 0.7p profit on each pint they sell, while the Treasury receives 33p. The trade body said the profits of the major brewers in the UK had fallen 78 per cent between 2004 and 2006."

So ... it costs £1.60 to produce a pint of beer? Uhuh. Pull the other one.

I think the real problem is that supermarkets sell beer for £0.22/can. And you can watch TV at the same time. And you'll have enough money left over to order a pizza.

If the smoking ban has had any effect at all it's to help people figure out what a ripoff British pubs are.

DrunkArse: Here's the thing, you pink lunged angels...

You know how great it is to have a good dive bar up your sleeve?
It's smoky, it's seedy, it's yours. And the fact that it's smoky and seedy kinda makes it even better, because it's a bar, and that's how a bar should be. Alright now, you see those old guys that are always there at your favorite dive bars? They are fixtures, they add to the character of the experience, they'll spout off ill-conceived wisdom, without them it's not the same. Well, by and large, they smoke. Their continued business keeps those dive bars open in the first place.

Kill the smoke and you're taking out the foundations of the business owners that pay the rent in those holes of depravity that you love to go to. Dudes will just buy their own bottle and smoke and drink at home.

If you've got gambling in your bars, same deal. People like to smoke and commit other vices, that's just the way it works, and gambling also feeds into the bottom line of your favorite drink spot. Kill the smokes, and gambling (and the taxes from it) suffers.

I get that the tide is too high to turn back now, so I'm not going to bother arguing that private business owners have a right to dictate the policies of their own establishments, or that you're entering these places by your own free will. My state is switching to smoke-free in January. Just saying, you pussies who don't want your popped collar to smell of smoke on Sunday are killing a cultural institution. The dive bar. You're slitting it's throat, and personally I feel it's a tragedy.


/First they came for my coffee shop, and I didn't speak up, because I didn't drink coffee...

THIS!!!!

Bravo mate!

Jamieboy: Stay home, invite some friends over, get some munchables in, a couple cases of beer and your good to go. Plus you get to control the music, the people you let in, and have a designated smoking area.

I'm with you there.
Go to a bar and spend $3/bottle for piss-water beer, or buy premium beer that actually has flavor for less than half that price, and get all the other amenities you mentioned. Not a tough choice.

Joce678: I think the real problem is that supermarkets sell beer for £0.22/can.

What I learned from Joce678's article: that people are willing to pay a lot more money for water than they are for beer.

So how good is that 22p/can lager anyway? I'm thinking that it would compare to Milwaukee's Best or Red, White and Blue... the kinds of beers that college students buy because they can't afford anything good.

ranspier: you know....as a news/not news source, FARK should really start a "BEER IN CRISIS" page to cover this growing crisis....I mean they already have a few hundred "GAS PRICE - FUEL CRISIS" pages...this is much more important


just a thought

Or at the very least, a Fark tag.

I like the tab idea better, though... when one clicks on it, the banner would read something like "BEER IN CRISIS - DAY 342" and just keeps counting the days.

What this article doesn't mention is that people have stopped drinking beer because it's more cost effective to nail cheap doubles+mixer. These days we're all pissed up on spirits.

Couldn't 75% of the sales plummet be due to the death of George Best?

/Window seat.

Ron Paul Revere:
How's that masochistic tax system working for ya?



Actually, we pay about the same as the US, much less if we take your exorbitant health insurance payments into account.

You don't go to a pub for the beer, idiots, you go to the pub to talk to people using your mouth instead of your fingers.

Social interaction.

haddie: make it yourself.

This!

I've just begun my hobby of home brewing. First batch is conditioning for a month (supposed to resemble Arrogant Bastard, I've been told), second batch is a "session" beer that will be done before the first. Can't wait!

/sees there is a Farker named zymurgist on board as well!
//Woo Hoo!!!

ph0rk: You don't go to a pub for the beer, idiots, you go to the pub to talk to people using your mouth instead of your fingers.

Social interaction.

So the only way some people like to interact is when they are under the influence? I'll pass. I'd rather talk to people when they are mentally competent to hold a conversation.

Sorry, I'm picky like that.

Is the "SAD tag" broken?

K/H D

perlgoodies: ph0rk: You don't go to a pub for the beer, idiots, you go to the pub to talk to people using your mouth instead of your fingers.

Social interaction.

So the only way some people like to interact is when they are under the influence? I'll pass. I'd rather talk to people when they are mentally competent to hold a conversation.

Sorry, I'm picky like that.

People are a range of states and to experience them all would give the full flavor of life instead. I do, however support your choice of bubble in which to live.

Ow My Balls:
/sees there is a Farker named zymurgist on board as well!


Howdy! Good luck with your brewing Arrogant Bastard, OM NOM NOM NOM. I have an IPA on tap now but that keg will kick "any day now." In the pipeline, I have a pale ale conditioning in a keg and saison and oatmeal stout in secondary fermenters (not kegged yet), as well as 2 ciders from last fall's apple harvest and a multi-berry mead, all aging for a long long time. I'm off to the ABC in Gettysburg for lunch today for some of their fine brews too.

/used to love me some disc golf, too
//all my disc golfing buddies got girlfriends or kids, so no more time