If he won't listen to them after the flood, what makes you think he would do it before hand?

That's gonna cost him.

I see nothing wrong with the argument that things like levees should be owned and maintained by the state/local governments rather than a Federal bureaucracy in Washington. However, that's not what McCain is arguing.

And the earmark process is rotten, so something was foul here even if you think this sort of thing was a good Federal expenditure.

It's shameful that Obama would politicize this disaster.

And it turns out that Obama opposed an effort to assure that levees were given first priority in funding. Nice going Obama.

Sounds like there's lots of blame to go around MCD.

Ok, I dig this Obama guy... but shut the hell up. Have you even seen any of these bills packed with pork? It has to be impossible to go over each line item and pick the important 0.1%.

I have no problem with a politican with a principle against pork in bills. Does that mean some good crap gets cut out? Yeah.

Why not just introduce your own bill to fund levees in Iowa (and send some down to us in NOLA while youre at it)... and make sure your bill isn't packed with millions of dollars of projects that have nothing to do with levees, Mr. Obama?

McCainDemocrat: It's shameful that Obama would politicize this disaster.

And it turns out that Obama opposed an effort to assure that levees were given first priority in funding. Nice going Obama.

God you're an idiot.

You see, this article is about John McCain blocking funds to repair levees. And your other point refers to an article (which I submitted) about McCain defying the wishes of the Iowa Governor to stay away right now instead of show up for a photo op.

I hate to do it but you just made my ignore list. And congratulations on being the first person to ever make that list.

My second point refers to part of this article.

And Obama didn't even claim that McCain blocked anything. He said that McCain opposed it.

Read this article, instead of reading the headline on Fark.

CravenMorehead: You see, this article is about John McCain blocking funds to repair levees. And your other point refers to an article (which I submitted) about McCain defying the wishes of the Iowa Governor to stay away right now instead of show up for a photo op.

I'm not a McPoontheUnitercrat apologist, by any stretch of the imagination, but there is an update in the original article in which one of McCain's people points out a similar vote by Obama and it is this to which MCD was referring. He may be a troll, but in this instance he was referring to a valid point from the article.

mcwebe0: He may be a troll, but in this instance he was referring to a valid point from the article.

Somebody needs to read the Boy Who Cried Wolf to MCD before bed tonight.

Lionel Mandrake: Somebody needs to read the Boy Who Cried Wolf to MCD before bed tonight.

ROFLMAO

mcwebe0: I'm not a McPoontheUnitercrat apologist, by any stretch of the imagination, but there is an update in the original article in which one of McCain's people points out a similar vote by Obama and it is this to which MCD was referring. He may be a troll, but in this instance he was referring to a valid point from the article.

I read the "article" and it is nothing more than a "he did this," and "he did that" hack piece with ZERO actual reference to how either voted on specific legislation. Nothing to see here, move along.

Lionel Mandrake: Somebody needs to read the Boy Who Cried Wolf to MCD before bed tonight.

Excellent idea.

I would, just once, like to see MccainDemocrat actually address the issue at hand. In this case address the fact that McCain's blocked funding for the levees in Iowa, without some lame attempt at deflection. But then again, that's not what trolls do.

Watch:

If Obama was also against this funding then I do not agree with his decision and I believe his stance on this was wrong.

I can see the logic behind not wanting to keep repairing some dikes. Fact is that there are many places that, in hindsight, are not very good places to be. It may have made sense 100 years ago when you could put everything important you owned into a horse drawn wagon and leave, come back after the water went down, and move back in after a little repair work.

We had to do this in Grand Forks after the 1997 Flood. We realized that building right up next to the river, giving it no room to flood, was a bad idea. We wrote off whole neighborhoods, bought out the residents, and bulldozed the houses. We then moved the dikes back to a more realistic distance from the river to a point that could be reliably protected from flooding.

McCain didn't block anything, he just opposed some bill that probably passed anyways.

OBAMA DOESN'T EVEN SAY THAT MCCAIN BLOCKED ANYTHING

McCainDemocrat: It's shameful that Obama would politicize this disaster.

And it turns out that Obama opposed an effort to assure that levees were given first priority in funding. Nice going Obama.

Everything bad that happens is the Republicans fault.

CravenMorehead: McCainDemocrat: It's shameful that Obama would politicize this disaster.

And it turns out that Obama opposed an effort to assure that levees were given first priority in funding. Nice going Obama.

God you're an idiot.

You see, this article is about John McCain blocking funds to repair levees. And your other point refers to an article (which I submitted) about McCain defying the wishes of the Iowa Governor to stay away right now instead of show up for a photo op.

I hate to do it but you just made my ignore list. And congratulations on being the first person to ever make that list.

He was my first too. He seems to be a LOT of people's first-ignore. I wonder why that is.

Has anyone figured out if McCainDemocrat is Afteroon_Hellbentfor_Mighty_dog? I'm going to put him on the ignore list with TCS and the rest of those assholes just to be sure.

doyner: "I read the "article" and it is nothing more than a "he did this," and "he did that" hack piece with ZERO actual reference to how either voted on specific legislation. Nothing to see here, move along."

Obviously bears repeating

Why the hell do y'all give McCainDemocrat so much attention?

Just ignore him. I don't mean put him on your ignore list, I mean don't respond to him. There are plenty of reasonable discussion to be had about the merits of the candidates without this sort of thing, but he's not the one that makes himself the center of every Obama thread. You people are when you engage him.

doyner: I read the "article" and it is nothing more than a "he did this," and "he did that" hack piece with ZERO actual reference to how either voted on specific legislation. Nothing to see here, move along.

Yeah, pretty much.

So lets see:

* Obama politicized this issue
* Obama blamed McCain for blocking earmarks that would have provided levees.
* McCain, Feingold and Claire McCaskill had a plan to fix the levees in a non-earmark fashion, and Obama voted against it.

Ouch

At least the government isn't paying for dykes. Those latte-sipping, San Franscis... wait, what?

I hate Chevy: Has anyone figured out if McCainDemocrat is Afteroon_Hellbentfor_Mighty_dog? I'm going to put him on the ignore list with TCS and the rest of those assholes just to be sure.

Actually, it seems the McCain, Feingold and McCaskill amendments weren't that popular. Best I could find was:

H.R. 1495: CQ Vote #165: Rejected 22-69: R 9-35; D 11-34; I 2-0. 5/15/07; Obama voted Nay

S.728, CQ Vote #210: Rejected 19-80: R 13-42; D 6-37; I 0-1. 7/19/06; McCain Voted Yea; Obama Voted Nay

If anyone can find more info on those amendments, I'd appreciate it.

Watch it helix400, you're going to get ignored for daring to speak out against St. Barack.

As with any bill with funding attached, it is difficult to decide how and why anyone in particular votes for it. I mean Congresspersons can attach virtually anything to a bill. You could have the "Puppy Dog and Rainbow Act" providing a brilliant program that would turn all children into geniuses while some congressmember attaches an earmark to fund mandatory 3rd trimester abortions. Now if you have to vote on this, are you voting in favor of mandatory 3rd trimester abortions or are going to oppose turning our children into geniuses? Either way you can be smeared no matter what way you vote.

That is why looking at a voting record and finding out why a vote was done is very difficult. The present system where all the unrelated garbage is tacked on to bills makes it very difficult to have principled votes. There is always some garbage in bills that you could support and oppose.

Crosshair: I can see the logic behind not wanting to keep repairing some dikes. Fact is that there are many places that, in hindsight, are not very good places to be.


Technology is a great thing. Unfortunately, it takes investment in technology and upkeep for it to continue to work.

Much of the entire nation of Netherlands was underwater until they invested in technology to reclaim land from the sea. The number of people there who live below sea level there makes the number of people in New Orleans living below sea level look like chump change. Technologically, it isn't difficult to maintain such a system and keep it reliable. It just takes the will to decide to do so.

When it comes to the health and welfare of your own countrymen, it's not very patriotic to be a cheapskate. Things for the common good like infrastructure, law and order, education, and military defense cost money. Some nations understand this. Others don't.


Dutch levees:




British levees:




American levees:

McCainDemocrat: Watch it helix400, you're going to get ignored for daring to speak out against St. Barack.

No, I just don't post 25 times per thread.

If the pork was really that important then it should have been important enough to have a bill all of its own.

Cut the pork from the bills, build a legitimate case for them to pass in their own right. Oh and the politicians can do a bit more work passing said extra bills.

LordJiro: He was my first too. He seems to be a LOT of people's first-ignore. I wonder why that is.

And it'd be even easier to ignore if people didn't keep quoting it!



To stop those monsterstrolls, one-two-three
Here's a fresh new way that's trouble-free
It's got Paul Anka's guarantee...
(Guarantee void in Tennessee)
Just don't look! Just don't look!

helix400: McCainDemocrat: Watch it helix400, you're going to get ignored for daring to speak out against St. Barack.

No, I just don't post 25 times per thread.

I hate Chevy

Afteroon_Hellbentfor_Mighty_dog_Guess_who?


I think thats The_Beacon_Man

McCainDemocrat: Watch it helix400, you're going to get ignored for daring to speak out against St. Barack.

At least you got the Saint part right.

I think there might be hope for you yet.

I will be sure to put you on my prayer list.

There is still time for you to see the error of your ways and come unto the light.

McCainDemocrat: OBAMA DOESN'T EVEN SAY THAT MCCAIN BLOCKED ANYTHING

Is McBushRepublican getting angry? Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

This makes me laugh

helix400: Actually, it seems the McCain, Feingold and McCaskill amendments weren't that popular. Best I could find was:

H.R. 1495: CQ Vote #165: Rejected 22-69: R 9-35; D 11-34; I 2-0. 5/15/07; Obama voted Nay

S.728, CQ Vote #210: Rejected 19-80: R 13-42; D 6-37; I 0-1. 7/19/06; McCain Voted Yea; Obama Voted Nay

If anyone can find more info on those amendments, I'd appreciate it.

I haven't found the bill's on the government website, but I found this from Times "the page"

would also be charged with prioritizing projects currently authorized. The substitute would authorize roughly $14 billion for Army Corps of Engineers water resources development projects, including initiatives for storm protection in Louisiana, flood control and ecosystem restoration." (H.R. 1495: CQ Vote #165: Rejected 22-69: R 9-35; D 11-34; I 2-0. 5/15/07; Obama voted Nay)
Obama National Co-Chair Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO) Voted In Favor Of Amendment Co-Sponsored By McCain And Feingold. (H.R. 1495: CQ Vote #165: Rejected 22-69: R 9-35; D 11-34; I 2-0. 5/15/07; Obama voted Yea)

same bill... two different votes from Obama

helix400: Actually, it seems the McCain, Feingold and McCaskill amendments weren't that popular. Best I could find was:

H.R. 1495: CQ Vote #165: Rejected 22-69: R 9-35; D 11-34; I 2-0. 5/15/07; Obama voted Nay

S.728, CQ Vote #210: Rejected 19-80: R 13-42; D 6-37; I 0-1. 7/19/06; McCain Voted Yea; Obama Voted Nay

If anyone can find more info on those amendments, I'd appreciate it.



I'm kind of looking too. So far, all I see is that Obama cosponsored S.728, but I'm trying to figure out specifically how this was amended and what happened (while being somewhat distracted)

helix400

Here is a link to the amendment:

So.. why did Obama vote against money to help out the Army Corps of Engineers in Louisiana again? Smooth move Barack

Rovian: I think thats The_Beacon_Man

Yeah, I think so to, based on the quality of 'logic' it spouts and the copious use of Cox & Forkum cartoons.

But it's actually 'The Beacon Man' which threw me off the trail for a bit. No underscores...

McCainDemocrat - You're not even trying anymore.

Atleast attack individual posters if you are going to troll or you will never get bites.

Which means you go from village idiot to that raving lunatic that everyone avoids.

That would be a shame, your bullshiat is so entertaining!

CravenMorehead: You see, this article is about John McCain blocking funds to repair levees. And your other point refers to an article (which I submitted) about McCain defying the wishes of the Iowa Governor to stay away right now instead of show up for a photo op.

I love the double standard on that one. First we had a thread excoriating Bush (new window)for staying away while praising Obama for rolling up his sleeves and helping out, and now we're complaining McCain went to visit the damaged areas.

ps. The Obama camp keeps shooting from the hip on these kinds of things thinking it is getting away with it. One of these days soon, it's going to come back and bite them. I anticipate a Lonesome Rhodes moment any day now.

McCainDemocrat: So.. why did Obama vote against money to help out the Army Corps of Engineers in Louisiana again? Smooth move Barack

Romero: Sometimes bills that would otherwise be good ideas are poorly worded, poorly constructed or have unsavory amendments attached.

"...levee funding programs that would have saved their homes..."
Seriously doubt it. Do you know how outrageous that crest was?
/ In Cedar Rapids
// Not a McCain supporter

McCainDemocrat - May I add that I particularly enjoyed your 'American Christian Soldier' act w/ your alt. danlpoon in a Hamas thread the other day.

Relatively Obscure: Here is a link to the amendment:

Thanks. Opencongress.org wasn't helping me much. But I'm giving up for now, I need to fix my other computer.

Overall, it looks like Obama voted for the main bill and against McCain's amendment. And McCain voted against the main bill and for his amendment.

The only dumb parts here seem to be Obama attacking McCain over this, acting as if McCain voted against fixing the levees altogether. Plus Obama seems to be defending his pork vote while simultaneously yelling at Bush for pork he allowed. Very strange. This is definitely one of the weakest attacks I've ever seen Obama make.

downstairs: Ok, I dig this Obama guy... but shut the hell up. Have you even seen any of these bills packed with pork? It has to be impossible to go over each line item and pick the important 0.1%.

I have no problem with a politican with a principle against pork in bills. Does that mean some good crap gets cut out? Yeah.

Why not just introduce your own bill to fund levees in Iowa (and send some down to us in NOLA while youre at it)... and make sure your bill isn't packed with millions of dollars of projects that have nothing to do with levees, Mr. Obama?

It's not really 0.1%. I read a list a few years ago that was supposed to leave me outraged at "pork". The only one I remember "a bug lab in Mississippi". Yeah, let's not do anything about Formosa termites, fire ants, mosquitoes carrying West Nile virus, "killer" bees, boll weevils or the pest insects I can't think of off the top of my head.

Sure, there are some gross examples of government waste (cough-Ted Stevens-cough), but none of it is completely wasted since even if the goods and services it's spent on are completely unnecessary, a portion comes back in taxes and the rest does stimulate the economy to some degree. It's also usually incredibly inconsequential considering we're talking about a $3.1 trillion dollar budget.

I'm not Obama has a leg to stand on here. I guess he's just playing the game, but the mere fact he's playing the game doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me. He'll have to do a lot worse to lose my vote.

danlpoon: So.. why did Obama vote against money to help out the Army Corps of Engineers in Louisiana again? Smooth move Barack

Good question. I'm looking through the related speeches to find more information.

So far, here's one oppositional snippet (not from Obama) that I've noted:

"Yes, we should study, and the amendment that has been proposed by Senator Inhofe and me provides for review to make sure the review is accurate. But to provide the additional bureaucracy, the additional hassle that the Feingold-McCain amendment provides does not in any way assure that the taxpayers will get a better deal, the environment will be better or that the needs of the people in the communities will be better satisfied." --Sen. Christopher Bond [R-MO]

Relatively Obscure: helix400

Here is a link to the amendment:

Looking at that and at the bill that passed, I really can't tell too much about what this bill would improve. It gave certain projects priority that the original bill did not, but it didn't really address any earmarks in the way the McCain suggested it would. The amendments addition really would have been at worst harmlessly redundant, and it's omission wouldn't have affected pork levels in any more significant way then it's addition... it just would have determined which pork came first. Both the bill and the amendment are equally wishy-washy in terms overhauling the Corps of Engineers

I think this is a case of both candidates throwing an legislative fit over which version of a mediocre bill was best.