So, business as usual

Barack better have a farking backbone when he gets into power because this freaking ridiculous. I've lost all respect for Pelosi and Reid.

EriksMom: Barack better have a farking backbone when he gets into power because this freaking ridiculous. I've lost all respect for Pelosi and Reid.

amen.

speaker of the house wexler
senate majority leader feingold

please god, give them someone with a farking backbone.

If Bush is withholding the documents, he must have something to hide.

/he's got plenty to hide

Obligatory.

You know I kind of understand how Dems would be delicate to standing up to the administration that has grossly abused the powers of the presidency when they are struggling vigorously to elect someone of their own to the position, but lets examine the doomsday scenario of why Bush and Cheney need to be out of office now...

If a nuclear strike were to occur today on American soil, through our current system of Continuity of Government, several key officials, namely Dick Cheney would assume unprecedented powers under a system of marshall law. They could in essence in this wake of an attack on this scale, abandon the constitution and assume full dictatorial powers with the full backing of our military. Even with a resistance movement that would envitably follow, the damage would already be done. I'm no conspiracy theorist but I would not put this past an administration that could potentially have a lot of people go to trial for war crimes and try to keep their asses from getting mobbed for what they've done to this country. Hence why you never hear Obama say that he would go after Bush while Bush is still in power. Don't think it could happen, just look at Zimbabwe.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_of_Operations_Plan

That's probably the whole reason why the framers of the constitution allowed for the executive branch to grant immunity to anyone. That way corrupt leaders could cover their tracks and get away with shiat without having to start a civil war to save their own ass, which would be a much worse situation.

EriksMom: That's probably the whole reason why the framers of the constitution allowed for the executive branch to grant immunity to anyone. That way corrupt leaders could cover their tracks and get away with shiat without having to start a civil war to save their own ass, which would be a much worse situation.

Except, back in the day, if the executives were abusing their powers, there was the chance that they'd get impeached and removed from office. Not anymore.

From Wikipedia: On July 18, 2007 Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., a member of the U.S. House Committee on Homeland Security, was denied access to the classified version of the continuity of government plan. Though members can access classified information, this is the first time documents have been denied.[2] [3] As of August 17, 2007, efforts by the committee to secure a copy of the plan continue.

I don't want to sound crazy in my last post so let me clarify. A new plan came about by the Bush administration amidst the Sept. 11 attacks without the knowledge of most congressional officials. The fact that our elected congressional leaders can not even view this information scares the living crap out of me. This has never happened before in the history of the United States.

I can understand why the public doesnt' need to know how our government should work in the midst of an attack but Congress? Whatever happened to checks and balances.

EriksMom: I can understand why the public doesnt' need to know how our government should work in the midst of an attack but Congress? Whatever happened to checks and balances.

Cheney shot them in the face, and then made them apologize.

my farking head hurts from trying to read that headline. -1

IF McCainDemocrat SHOWS UP EVERYONE PLEASE IGNORE THIS WELL-KNOWN CONCERN TROLL WHO USES MULTIPLE ALTS!

/he might come here
//EriksMom mentioned Obama in the first couple of posts
*shakes fist at EriksMom*

FTFA:President Bush has also asserted executive privilege to keep his chief of staff, Josh Bolten, and former White House counsel Harriet Miers from having to provide information to Congress about the firing of a group of U.S. attorneys in what Democrats consider a political purge.

This shiat is disgusting. Why isn't he impeached yet? I dont think it's just congress that needs a backbone. I think every single American in this country needs one. What happened to our history of not taking shiat from government and raising hell to make things right? Our brains are farking warped into not caring about anything but ourselves and our own little worlds. It's unfortunate that we wont do anything about it until it slaps us in the face and by then it'll be too late.

Sir Roderick Glossop: IF McCainDemocrat SHOWS UP EVERYONE PLEASE IGNORE THIS WELL-KNOWN CONCERN TROLL WHO USES MULTIPLE ALTS!

What's a concern troll?

EsteeFlwrPot: Sir Roderick Glossop: IF McCainDemocrat SHOWS UP EVERYONE PLEASE IGNORE THIS WELL-KNOWN CONCERN TROLL WHO USES MULTIPLE ALTS!

What's a concern troll?

I was wondering the same thing.

EsteeFlwrPot: What's a concern troll?

Rant_Casey's_Rabies_Buffet: I was wondering the same thing.

Concern Troll (new window)

Concern Troll (new window)

A person who pretends to be a Democrat voting for McCain because Clinton lost the nomination is a concern troll. See: Hillaryis44 (new window) (run by a Perot fanboy and a longtime supporter of 3rd party politics) and McCainDemocrat.

Sir Roderick Glossop: A person who pretends to be a Democrat voting for McCain because Clinton lost the nomination is a concern troll. See: Hillaryis44 (new window) (run by a Perot fanboy and a longtime supporter of 3rd party politics) and McCainDemocrat.

Ooh ok, I see. Thanks for the explanation. :)

burndtdan: speaker of the house wexler

maybe. I like my idea of speaker Kucinich, personally.

senate majority leader feingold

but this, i agree with 100%.

Sir Roderick Glossop: EsteeFlwrPot: What's a concern troll?

Rant_Casey's_Rabies_Buffet: I was wondering the same thing.

Concern Troll (new window)

Concern Troll (new window)

A person who pretends to be a Democrat voting for McCain because Clinton lost the nomination is a concern troll. See: Hillaryis44 (new window) (run by a Perot fanboy and a longtime supporter of 3rd party politics) and McCainDemocrat.

Wow, that makes more sense than I thought it would. Thanks for the edjukation.

burndtdan: senate majority leader feingold.

Yes, Lord.

Marcus Aurelius: If Bush is withholding the documents, he must have something to hide.

/he's got plenty to hide

Yet whenever someone asks why all personal information should be available to the government, you get the old "If you have nothing to hide, then why do you care?".

jpbreon: Yet whenever someone asks why all personal information should be available to the government, you get the old "If you have nothing to hide, then why do you care?".

Considering how it's practically impossible to avoid breaking some law or another day to day (for example, walking up and down the sidewalk in front of one's house while drinking a beer), all of us probably have something to hide.

Rant_Casey's_Rabies_Buffet: Considering how it's practically impossible to avoid breaking some law or another day to day (for example, walking up and down the sidewalk in front of one's house while talking on the phone and drinking a beer), all of us probably have something to hide.

FTFM.

Arn't there any badass limitations to Executive Privilage? I can not recall that the president was ever intended to have totalitarian powers or nothing.

I mean, this is kinda ridiculous, that a man who has no respect for law is able to use the same laws that he disrespects, to his advantage. While his opposition are shackled by the same laws that this man has broken.

If that sentance doesn't make any sence, then I phrased it correctly, cause this circular argument is the only thing that provides the current president with any powers.

The only true powers that he appears to have is exploiting the same rules that congress is forced to comply to. While rewritting previously established laws to his advantage,

Any lawers out there with the knowlage to counter his claims?

burndtdan: EriksMom: Barack better have a farking backbone when he gets into power because this freaking ridiculous. I've lost all respect for Pelosi and Reid.

amen.

speaker of the house wexler
senate majority leader feingold

please god, give them someone with a farking backbone.



You are referring to these two:





Russ Feingold and Dennis Kucinich.

Real American Heros.

EriksMom: If a nuclear strike were to occur today on American soil, through our current system of Continuity of Government, several key officials, namely Dick Cheney would assume unprecedented powers under a system of marshall law. They could in essence in this wake of an attack on this scale, abandon the constitution and assume full dictatorial powers with the full backing of our military. Even with a resistance movement that would envitably follow, the damage would already be done. I'm no conspiracy theorist but I would not put this past an administration that could potentially have a lot of people go to trial for war crimes and try to keep their asses from getting mobbed for what they've done to this country. Hence why you never hear Obama say that he would go after Bush while Bush is still in power. Don't think it could happen, just look at Zimbabwe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_of_Operations_Plan

In regards to Continuity of Government, couldn't congress, America etc.... like just say... no? Like congress justs refuses to give up power?-

Is Bush gonna be like: "See this law I've written? It says I got absolute power." and this would go unchallenged?

What if we were all... "um, we outnumber you, so... no"

Is Bush gonna be like: "Send in the Marines. Kill all desenters."

Couldn't the marines be like: "Um, no... I got to deal with these farkers when the sittuation is over, and I don't want to catch a brick to the face when I become a civilian again"

Are you suggesting that the American people would be persuaded to give up their constitution, just because a man of questionable intellect said we have to? Because of a law that he wrote.

As per my previous post, it would appear that this man's only power is the exploitation of our complacency.

EriksMom: That's probably the whole reason why the framers of the constitution allowed for the executive branch to grant immunity to anyone. That way corrupt leaders could cover their tracks and get away with shiat without having to start a civil war to save their own ass, which would be a much worse situation.

back in the day, you could go up and knock on the door of the white house and have a chat with the president.

Then the British torched the white house.

EriksMom: Barack better have a farking backbone when he gets into power because this freaking ridiculous. I've lost all respect for Pelosi and Reid.

I'm sure he will stonewall Pelosi and Reid the same way. Presidents seem to do that a lot.

Okay, old fart waring, so take this for what it's worth...

I remember the Nixon White House, which was a few of the people we are "enjoying" today. I also know that the game these guys are playing is exactly the same game as last time - when you get old enough you get to see everything all over again.

What you need to remember is that only so many lies can be told before you forget which truth you emphatically told to who.

I'm actually impressed, Dick Cheney and crew have come a long way from the mistakes they made when they were younger and this shows that people, well, some people do learn as they get older. But I also know that every time you do something that isn't above board, there is a chance you'll make a mistake. No matter how good you are, you can't plan for every eventuality and everyone makes a mistake every once in a while.

I can also tell you that things are starting to unwind. The administration is hoping they can wind the clock down, exit with the last minute pardon and walk away into the sunset.

Congress, specifically Mr. Waxman, is a very different personality type. He is calm, rational, organized and motivated - and unless I miss my guess, he already knows something. This is not a man who "goes on fishing expeditions" this is a man who makes sure he has all the evidence he needs to crucify someone before he extends an invitation to come on down for a talk.

Now, if you were a reasonably powerful congressman and probably the most important election in a lifetime was at your doorstep, how would you play this? If your answer is, make sure you keep giving them enough rope to hag themselves with until three weeks before the election, you might just be the kind of guy our Congress can use.

Justice may move slowly, but it moves with a vengeance.

Except this guy, of course...

The guy at the end of the thread: Arn't there any badass limitations to Executive Privilage? I can not recall that the president was ever intended to have totalitarian powers or nothing.


IANALY, but the general argument is similar to lawyer-client or doctor-patient confidentiality, where the President is the client/patient. The idea is that the Pres needs unvarnished truth and plain spoken advice in order to do his job, and his aides/advisers might be afraid to give him that if they could be called into court to repeat for the whole world what they told the Pres in privacy.

To get at how Bush is using it, and how he is so very very wrong, you have to go back to Nixon's "unitary executive" ideas, which were shot down mercilessly back then but have resurfaced under Cheney. The most famous manifestation of this theory is Nixon saying "It's not illegal if the President does it."

So, for Bush, EVERYTHING is "executive privilege"? WTF? HOw the fark is a discussion about EPA warrant "executive privilege"???

Alternately, you could give them enough rope go HANG themselves with - but that's up to you.

Missed that on proofreading preview.

"I believe that publicly releasing these deliberative materials to the committee could inhibit the candor of future deliberations among the president's staff in the (Executive Office of the President) and deliberative communications between the EOP and executive branch agencies, particularly deliberations concerning politically charged issues," Mukasey wrote.

So in other words, Bush is my boss and I work for him. Constitution and the law come second to my boss. I'm just waiting for Mukasey to start sputtering "I don't recall" and "I don't remember" phrases made famous by Gonzo...

"Are you suggesting that the American people would be persuaded to give up their constitution, just because a man of questionable intellect said we have to? Because of a law that he wrote."

Why do you REALLY think they want gun 'control' so badly ?

November will be really interesting.

Korag_The_Nasty: Smile while you can, conservatives. These will also be powers that PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA will have at his disposal starting in 2009.

I hope he keeps to his word and invalidates many of the brand spankin new powers Chimpy's gotten passed, but I doubt it.

One can always dream.

Obama should sign laws outlawing the laws that Dubya passed that gave the Executive all that power.

And then sign signing statements that he will not follow these new laws.

jpbreon: Marcus Aurelius: If Bush is withholding the documents, he must have something to hide.

/he's got plenty to hide

Yet whenever someone asks why all personal information should be available to the government, you get the old "If you have nothing to hide, then why do you care?".

People: They must be searched and wiretapped at every opportunity. It's the only way to stay safe post 9/11.
Government and corporations: Their dealings must never see the light of day.

Your calls will be recorded for quality assurance!

You might recall that the Clinton administration invoked executive privilege in the Lewinski scandal, and it was only after a court ruled against him that he finally was compelled to testify. Clinton also argued privilege when people were trying to find out who was on his health care task force.

So it's not like George Bush is alone in arguing executive privilege, as some of you appear to think.

Goodfella: burndtdan: EriksMom: Barack better have a farking backbone when he gets into power because this freaking ridiculous. I've lost all respect for Pelosi and Reid.

amen.

speaker of the house wexler
senate majority leader feingold

please god, give them someone with a farking backbone.



You are referring to these two:

Russ Feingold and Dennis Kucinich.

Real American Heros.

THIS

I'd like to see feingold in there, but Dennis is a MUST. He's one of the very few in the Senate or House to not only actually have a pair, but a pair made of freaking granite.

jjorsett:
Clinton got a blowjob by an intern. I had no problem w/him using executive privilege. This is an entirely different matter.

jjorsett: You might recall that the Clinton administration invoked executive privilege in the Lewinski scandal, and it was only after a court ruled against him that he finally was compelled to testify. Clinton also argued privilege when people were trying to find out who was on his health care task force.

In as much as Monica Lewinski had jack shiat to do with the operation of the U.S. Government, I have no problem with that, though I'm not sure it's exactly "executive privilege"... he should have just taken the Fifth and not lied.

As for the latter, you're right. Certainly one reason why I've never voted for a Clinton (Perot, Dole, Obama).

Lawnchair:

So who do you vote for?

Another biatchslap from Bush to the dems. Come on guys, grow a sack.

Has a court ever ruled on "Executive Privledge"?

/ how does one correctly spell privledge?

Executive priviledge = Fark you

How many more days until this douche bag is out of office?

The reason the Republicans have opposed stem cell research all these years is that they're afraid the Democrats will use it to grow a backbone.

For 20 years now, we've been told that "the adults are in charge". I've yet to see any proof of that.

Pr1nc3ss: Lawnchair:

So who do you vote for?

Sorry. That's who I was saying. Voted for
Perot
Dole (not my favorite person, but he was my Senator, I've met him a few times, friendly enough, smart, and I couldn't stand Clinton's lies about him)
Nader (protest vote, regretted now, but note that I was in an unwinnable state for Gore)
Kerry
Obama (first time I've declared to vote in a primary).

Since I have voted for Libertarians in state elections, I've voted for just about everybody. Of course, I haven't voted for anyone who might *win* before, so that thought is kinda scary.