/popcorn's cooking

People often twist the first amendment to whatever fits their argument.

Yes, you can say whatever you want. No one can stop you from saying it. You'll also have to deal with the consequences for saying what you said.

Maybe so.

But Jesus was a Peacenik (new window) and possibly a Communist (new window).

Not an "obvious" tag?

Well, maybe the God of the Old Testament

He even wrote a letter to the IRS explaining what he had said and challenging the tax collection agency to do something about it.

i don't think he understands exactly how far up his cavities the irs is able to search if they so choose.

That's backwards. Many Republicans think they're God, not the other way around.

Who's approving the links today, Jerry Falwell?

I hope he loses and it forces all religious institutions to pay taxes.

/He'd get "raptured" in a big hurry.

They are absolutely free to say whatever they want from the pulpit. However, the special tax-exempt status and lack of financial reporting requirements for religious organizations is specifically crafted so as to exclude political activity. If they want to be political, they are advocacy organizations, and have special tax and reporting rules. They can't have it both ways.

FTFA: "The government is trying to censor me and other religious leaders," Booth told ABC News. "I may be taking on the IRS, but the IRS has taken on the Constitution unchallenged since 1954. I feel like the only law that should dictate what I am allowed to say is the First Amendment."

Hey..... if you want to stop sucking on the government's teat and pay your fair share of taxes then you can say whatever you damn well please. But if you want to keep your tax exempt status then shut the fark up!

Which God? Not Ganesha!

I really really hope that the IRS just nods and asks for receipts. No big confrontation, just hand them a bill. Deny him the news coverage he so desperately craves, then when he doesn't pay up repossess the church and all its properties.

vernonFL: Which God? Not Ganesha!

Please do not offer my god a peanut.

Aren't you a little old to have imaginary friends?

Wow...big brass bawls on that one.

/shame the IRS can melt them into drawer knobs at its whim or convenience
//I could see a new sport of auditing church sermons in hopes of catching one of them breaking said laws on tape

God is a Republican. He slaughters babies, demands that you kill your children, rapes virgins, and doesn't help people in a flood.

bronyaur1: They are absolutely free to say whatever they want from the pulpit. However, the special tax-exempt status and lack of financial reporting requirements for religious organizations is specifically crafted so as to exclude political activity. If they want to be political, they are advocacy organizations, and have special tax and reporting rules. They can't have it both ways.

Arthur Jumbles: Hey..... if you want to stop sucking on the government's teat and pay your fair share of taxes then you can say whatever you damn well please. But if you want to keep your tax exempt status then shut the fark up!

THESE

burndtdan: He even wrote a letter to the IRS explaining what he had said and challenging the tax collection agency to do something about it.

i don't think he understands exactly how far up his cavities the irs is able to search if they so choose.

Not only that, but doesn't this put all of his parishoners out to dry in that they won't let them count their tithing or donations to the church as "tax-deductible."

vernonFL: God is a Republican. He slaughters babies, demands that you kill your children, rapes virgins, and doesn't help people in a flood.

Jesus, on the other hand, is a Socialist.

Etchy333: burndtdan: He even wrote a letter to the IRS explaining what he had said and challenging the tax collection agency to do something about it.

i don't think he understands exactly how far up his cavities the irs is able to search if they so choose.

Not only that, but doesn't this put all of his parishoners out to dry in that they won't let them count their tithing or donations to the church as "tax-deductible."

i dunno that i've ever met someone cheap enough to claim their tithes on their tax return, lol. the idea had never occurred to me.

Freeper heads are asploding over this at this very moment.


First of all, 'separation of church and state' appears no where in the U.S. Constitution; it's a fabrication allegedly founded on the 'establishment' clause. Secondly, this IRS harassment will focus exclusively on white conservative institutions and completely ignore the goings on in churhes operated by the likes of Reverend Wright (that would be racist-Wright gets mentioned, finally, at page 3 of the above article). This selective persecution will get a 'pass' from the MSM, as did the Clintons use of the FBI to gather intelligence on political enemies and the selective use of IRS audits to intimidate conservative organizations like the Heritage Foundation. An Obama presidency, along with the full support of the alleged 'watchdog' media, will be the beginning of the end of civil liberties in America. As is is now on many college campuese, the key to survival will be KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT AND DO NOTHING TO REVEAL YOUR THOUGHTS.

13 posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 10:40:07 AM by Spok (Liberty lives only in proportion to wholesome restraint.)


Its about damn time. Pulpits have been silent for too long, remember it was that filthy POS LBJ who enacted this. Any church that is unwilling to speak the truth re. the bible, politicians or social issues (homos) is not worth going to. "Salt and the light....."

25 posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 11:57:30 AM by sasafras (Govt. mandated racism = Affirmative Action; Private Business Mandated

What part of free speech do you not understand or fear? Elitist would surely agree with you that Pastors should be silent about politics (funny thing so would communist dictators). Why would you post on this board if you believe against free speech. I dont give a crap if the liberals do it, good for them. This tax law is unconstitutional, I dont fear thought or speech but apparantly you do.

Free speech is free speech, in a church, in a plane, a university or anywhere else. Wake up and realize that only liberals currently have the right to speak their mind. I guess free press only applies to liberals too, huh?

31 posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 12:54:44 PM by sasafras (Govt. mandated racism = Affirmative Action; Private Business Mandated


Link (new window)

vernonFL: God is a Republican. He slaughters babies, demands that you kill your children, rapes virgins, and doesn't help people in a flood.

Noahie did a heckuva job.

Why should freedom of religion have anything to do with tax exemption? Churches should pay their taxes like any business. That wouldn't stop anyone from believing anything they want.

Excellent. I hope the IRS removes his church's tax-deductible status.

Or, better yet, let Congress just remove tax-deductible status from all religious organizations, and then let them say whatever they want.

burndtdan: He even wrote a letter to the IRS explaining what he had said and challenging the tax collection agency to do something about it.

i don't think he understands exactly how far up his cavities the irs is able to search if they so choose.


Nah, it's a win-win situation for this guy. If the IRS does anything at all to punish him, he hollers "religious persecution", takes them to court (where the evil ACLU will probably file a brief on his behalf), goes on all the talk shows, and out media-whores Jerimiah Wright. If they do nothing at all, he continues to act as if he's threatened with persecution. If they change the rules in his favor, he gets to campaign for republicans for free. After all, they've done soooo much for religious types already, seeing how they successfully banned gay marriage, abortion, rap music, muslims, etc.

Instant Karma:

Wow...big brass bawls on that one.

The more balls than brains stratagem, one of my all-time favorites.

burndtdan: Etchy333: burndtdan: He even wrote a letter to the IRS explaining what he had said and challenging the tax collection agency to do something about it.

i don't think he understands exactly how far up his cavities the irs is able to search if they so choose.

Not only that, but doesn't this put all of his parishoners out to dry in that they won't let them count their tithing or donations to the church as "tax-deductible."

i dunno that i've ever met someone cheap enough to claim their tithes on their tax return, lol. the idea had never occurred to me.

I think it's pretty common. For some people donations to a church, (and in the case of tithing, it's actually 10%), can amount to a substantial portion of income.

PJ OROURKE said it best

I have only one firm belief about the American political system, and that is this:

God is a Republican and Santa Claus is a Democrat.

God is an elderly or, at any rate, middle-aged mate, a stern fellow, patriarchal rather than paternal and a great believer in rules and regulations. He holds men strictly accountable for their actions. He has little apparent concern for the material well-being of the disadvantaged. He is politically connected, socially powerful and holds the mortgage on literally everything in the world. God is difficult. God is unsentimental. It is very hard to get into God's heavenly country club.

Santa Claus is another matter. He's cute. He's nonthreatening. He's always cheerful. And he loves animals. He may know who's been naughty and who's been nice, but he never does anything about it. He gives everyone everything they want without thought of a quid pro quo. He works hard for charities, and he's famously generous to the poor. Santa Claus is preferable to God in every way but one: There is no such thing as Santa Claus.

aba: People often twist the first amendment to whatever fits their argument.

Yes, you can say whatever you want. No one can stop you from saying it. You'll also have to deal with the consequences for saying what you said.

NO that is not what the first amendment means. Freedom of speech does mean freedom from consequences (at least consequences from the government). What does the right to say whatever you want mean if the government can imprison/fine you into oblivion/kill your family if they don't like what you're saying?

burndtdan: i dunno that i've ever met someone cheap enough to claim their tithes on their tax return, lol. the idea had never occurred to me.

I look at people's tax returns all day. A *lot* of people deduct tithings.

The IRS is the last thing this guy should be worried about, since he'll probably be spending eternity in hell.

"The gist of my speech was you can't support Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama because they support abortion and homosexual marriage, and the scripture vehemently opposes both. I didn't say vote for McCain, but I'm planning to," he said.

Stinkin' bovine excrement. Neither abortion nor homosexual marriage are specifically mentioned in the Bible.

I am shocked that this thread has gone so far without a gun-wielding Republican Jesus image.

Why else do you think the Almighty let his hippie son get crucified?

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can yell "Fire!" in a crowed theater.

Freedom of speech does mean you can yell "You're an asshat!" during services at the Warroad Community Church in Minnesota.

uncoveror: Why should freedom of religion have anything to do with tax exemption? Churches should pay their taxes like any business. That wouldn't stop anyone from believing anything they want.

It stems from the doctrine that the power to tax is equal to the power to destroy. Derived from a court case where the state of Maryland wanted to tax the Second Bank of the US, if I remember correctly.

Could someone explain how the tax exemption thing works with churches? Is it just that they are 501(c)3 organizations or do they have a special status?

On an unrelated note:

FTFA: The gist of my speech was you can't support Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama because they support abortion and homosexual marriage, and the scripture vehemently opposes both.

Okay, I get the abortion is murder thing, but gay marriage? Really? The Bible devotes far more attention to condemning those who ignore the plight of the poor and the resident aliens in Israel than to homosexuality. The Bible spends far more time addressing greed and materialism than homosexuality. Which issues should be more important to people who follow Jesus?

dogfood: If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.


Right out of the GOP playbook.


Could you cite book, chapter, verse?
/not saying it's wrong, just curious.

Let's just make it easier on everyone and start taxing churches. Then they won't be so "repressed".

Bladel: Maybe so.

But Jesus was a Peacenik (new window) and possibly a C communist (new window).

FTFY

Thanks to CDP's image, I started to wonder, "How do Creationists explain dinosaurs?"

Yeah, I know, I should have let that thought go and moved on, rather than severely spraining my brain reading this.

Owie.

If these guys get what they want I am SOOOOO going into the church business. That has got to be the easiest money out there.

GhostFish: I am shocked that this thread has gone so far without a gun-wielding Republican Jesus image.

If you ever read the Old Testament, you would know God is a Republican. God kicked so much as in the pre-Jesus days. But you know, when you have a kid, you tend to mellow out and stop asking people to kill their own kids. It's only natural.

Ahhh yes... Farking with the IRS thinking that you've figured out a loophole they haven't thought of yet. It always ends well.

T. Dawg: Thanks to CDP's image, I started to wonder, "How do Creationists explain dinosaurs?"

I'm still waiting for them to explain where Cain and Seth's wives came from.

Why do these Christians hate America?

Great_Milenko: burndtdan: He even wrote a letter to the IRS explaining what he had said and challenging the tax collection agency to do something about it.

i don't think he understands exactly how far up his cavities the irs is able to search if they so choose.


Nah, it's a win-win situation for this guy. If the IRS does anything at all to punish him, he hollers "religious persecution", takes them to court (where the evil ACLU will probably file a brief on his behalf), goes on all the talk shows, and out media-whores Jerimiah Wright. If they do nothing at all, he continues to act as if he's threatened with persecution. If they change the rules in his favor, he gets to campaign for republicans for free. After all, they've done soooo much for religious types already, seeing how they successfully banned gay marriage, abortion, rap music, muslims, etc.

um... if the IRS does something to him, he'll cry "wow, i never knew how much it sucks to be audited", try to take them to court, where his case will be laughed off the docket, he might try to get a spot on some talk shows but they won't know who he is, and we probably will get at best a follow up one liner of an article about the guy being forced from the pulpit or something.