Maybe we should close the Enron loophole

If I understand the Fark Conservatives correctly, it's worth it, because ANWR is not aesthetically pleasing, and caribou suck.
bulldg4life:Maybe we should close the Enron loophole
THIS.

Anyone who had done the math could have told you that, but theFark Independents^TMdon't seem to like doing that.

unrelated... is anyone else losing blank lines in the posts? here's an example...

is this just me? just curious

burndtdan:unrelated... is anyone else losing blank lines in the posts? here's an example...
is this just me? just curious
It ate the spaces before and after my Fark Independent quote, so there's that.

burndtdan:unrelated... is anyone else losing blank lines in the posts? here's an example...
I was scratching my head over that one, too. I didn't write it that way.
Let's see what happens...

GAT_00:burndtdan:unrelated... is anyone else losing blank lines in the posts? here's an example...
is this just me? just curious
It ate the spaces before and after my Fark Independent quote, so there's that.
And just ate the spaces there.

burndtdan:unrelated... is anyone else losing blank lines in the posts? here's an example...
img255.imageshack.us
is this just me? just curious
Let's find out.

Yeah...I didn't write it that way.
Will it eat two spaces?

Yes...it will.

OM
NOM
NOM
Fark eats your spaces.
/looks fine in preview...

GAT_00:And just ate the spaces there.
fatty.
.
.
i'm just glad it's not just me.

bulldg4life: Maybe we should close the Enron loophole

This!

/space this!

burndtdan: GAT_00:And just ate the spaces there.
fatty.
.
.
i'm just glad it's not just me.

Hey, I resemble that

burndtdan: i'm just glad it's not just me.

We'll get used to it.

GAT_00: burndtdan: GAT_00:And just ate the spaces there.
fatty.
.
.
i'm just glad it's not just me.

Hey, I resemble that

Ok, WTF, it didn't eat them there.

drew is farking with us, isn't he?

/tinfoil

Who cares if gas will only go down two cents -- the point is that we won't be giving money to the Saudis or any other foreign source for oil.

They are probably beta testing their new April Fool's code

KaponoFor3: Who cares if gas will only go down two cents -- the point is that we won't be giving money to the Saudis or any other foreign source for oil.

The point is also that we will be putting lives at risk - human and otherwise - by drilling in a sensitive and dangerous environment.

But it's worth it for $0.02? Two fkn cents??

FK that.

KaponoFor3: Who cares if gas will only go down two cents -- the point is that we won't be giving money to the Saudis or any other foreign source for oil.

Uh, yeah we will. ANWR cannot ever account for more than an insignificant portion of US oil usage.

Lionel Mandrake: But it's worth it for $0.02? Two fkn cents??

Is it worth 2 farking cents? No. Is it worth the risk so that we can start to ween ourselves off of the Saudi teat (and other foreign sources of oil)? You bet your ass

GAT_00: Uh, yeah we will. ANWR cannot ever account for more than an insignificant portion of US oil usage.

The less we give them the better. Combine ANWR drilling with offshore drilling, and we'll have ourselves a fantastic first step.

I guess Fark.com got tired of oil is the answer bots repeated cries to open up all open spaces 12 pica or larger for drilling.

KaponoFor3: The less we give them the better. Combine ANWR drilling with offshore drilling, and we'll have ourselves a fantastic first step.

If we stopped allowing speculators to artificially drive up the price of oil/gasoline, we wouldn't be freaking out and making rash decisions about oil reserves that may or may not help us decrease dependence on foreign oil.

Hell, if we took the time to look at it and decided on pouring money in to possible alternate fuel sources, we'd be well on our way to not having to worry about oil instead of freaking out about where our next 10 million barrels are coming from.

KaponoFor3: Is it worth the risk so that we can start to ween ourselves off of the Saudi teat (and other foreign sources of oil)? You bet your ass

We can start to ween ourselves off Saudi oil by paying two cents less in 2025? Really? Ya think so?

I respectfully disagree.

Push an alternative that is worth debating: nuclear. Bad points, sure, but unlike drilling in ANWR, good points, too.

bulldg4life: If we stopped allowing speculators to artificially drive up the price of oil/gasoline, we wouldn't be freaking out and making rash decisions about oil reserves that may or may not help us decrease dependence on foreign oil.

How would drilling in ANWR and offshore not help us decrease our dependence on foreign oil? Every single barrel we got from our own sources is one less from the Saudis, or the Mexicans, or the Russians, or... you get the point.

bulldg4life: Hell, if we took the time to look at it and decided on pouring money in to possible alternate fuel sources, we'd be well on our way to not having to worry about oil instead of freaking out about where our next 10 million barrels are coming from.

Who says the two are mutually exclusive? The US could easily drill in ANWR and offshore, build more nuclear power plants, build some refineries, and poor lots of money into renewable energy tech so that 20 to 40 years from now, we won't be left holding our dicks while the Chinese and the Indians buy up all the oil on the world market.

Either way, I support renewable energy, but I also recognize that it would probably take 20-40+ years to see the full fruits of our investments. We need to have a plan that bridges us from now until that time, and what I've laid out above is not a bad way of going about it.

Lionel Mandrake: We can start to ween ourselves off Saudi oil by paying two cents less in 2025? Really? Ya think so?

It's not about the price -- it's about the availability. If we could buy a gallon of oil from a US source at 130 dollars, its infinitely better to do that than to buy from a Saudi or Russian source at 130 dollars. It's not that complicated.

KaponoFor3: How would drilling in ANWR and offshore not help us decrease our dependence on foreign oil? Every single barrel we got from our own sources is one less from the Saudis, or the Mexicans, or the Russians, or... you get the point.

I'm no expert on this stuff, but I think I read somewhere that we are bound by treaty to sell any and all oil on the world market.

JPJ007: I'm no expert on this stuff, but I think I read somewhere that we are bound by treaty to sell any and all oil on the world market.

I've never heard of that.

That would be the worst treaty evar.

KaponoFor3: That would be the worst treaty evar.

I don't think the world's largest consumer of oil is in a great place to dictate terms to the many nations that supply our habit...and that drilling in ANWR will do nothing to mitigate.

Lionel Mandrake: I don't think the world's largest consumer of oil is in a great place to dictate terms to the many nations that supply our habit...

Why? That's right, because we are stuck sucking them off while we give them money for their natural resources. If only there was someway to stem that tide and change the relationship... hmm...

Lionel Mandrake: and that drilling in ANWR will do nothing to mitigate.

Let's say we started to drill in ANWR. We drilled, say, 10,000 barrels of oil a day, a number I just pulled out of my ass. This weird ass treaty aside, how are those 10,000 barrels produced in the US not going to mean we consume 10,000 barrels less from a foreign source?

Lionel Mandrake: KaponoFor3: That would be the worst treaty evar.

I don't think the world's largest consumer of oil is in a great place to dictate terms to the many nations that supply our habit...and that drilling in ANWR will do nothing to mitigate.

what are you talking about? i see crackheads bargaining with their dealers all the time.

/of course, they still end up sucking dick for it anyways

burndtdan: i see crackheads bargaining with their dealers all the time.

And paying 2 cents less per fix has obvious advantages, right?

Lionel Mandrake: And paying 2 cents less per fix has obvious advantages, right?

Dude, are you thick? There are other reasons to be for it rather than the 2 cents difference, that's what I've been trying to explain to you all thread.

KaponoFor3: Why? That's right, because we are stuck sucking them off while we give them money for their natural resources.

2 cents in 2025...that'll show 'em! That'll show 'em real good!

KaponoFor3: This weird ass treaty aside, how are those 10,000 barrels produced in the US not going to mean we consume 10,000 barrels less from a foreign source?

How do we insure all 10,000 barrels go to the US?

Perhaps oil is the problem and not the solution.

KaponoFor3: There are other reasons to be for it rather than the 2 cents difference, that's what I've been trying to explain to you all thread.

You've obviously not convinced me. So far the 2 cents is all I see.

Plus, aren't we all "free trade" and shiat? Doesn't oil we produce just enter the world market like our current oil does and - at best - adjust the price downward - oh, I don't know - a cent or two?

Oh...in addition to the caribou, there are people who live there and live off of the land. How many cents/gallon is it worth to you uproot them? Worth reimbursing them for the income they'll lose? what if the reimbursement exceeds the the amount you'll save at the pump? Still worth it?

Seems like an awful lot of hassle for very fkn little in return. I guess you put a much higher price on consuming American oil instead of Saudi oil - if that's even possible.

As I see it, the problem is the oil industry doesn't have any vested interest in selling us our own oil back. Why would whoever it is that pulls the oil out sell to us rather than just put the oil on the market?

A far more likely scenario, whether there's a dumbass treaty or not, is that oil hits the world market and gets bought by an energy company, who then mix it with whatever other similar grade oil it gets from other sources. By the time it reaches US consumers and US companies, the amount of that oil that came from us is completely unknowable.

On top of that, the energy company that bought our oil will continue buying from the Saudis and OPEC and other foreign interests. Why would they stop? So the net effect is our domestic oil will be mixed with foreign oil and then sold back to us at the same market rate everyone else pays. The Saudis still hold a gun to our head, and our government still has an interest in keeping troops there, and so the nutcases still have an excuse to hate us, and all we've really done is taken what could be a useful energy resource at some point in the future and given it away for pennies on the dollar.

A better solution - begin seriously investing in alternatives, and keep that oil in the ground should the day ever come when we really do need it for ourselves. And yes, I practice what I preach. About half my investments are in companies pursuing green energy and solar in North America and China.

The oil companies are international corporations. There are no 100% American companies that drill only in America and refine only in America and distribute only in America, etc.

Maybe we should nationalize the companies and oil fields? Is that what I'm hearing? Sounds awfully commie to me.

Sure, drilling in ANWR might not mean diddly sh*t, but these hippies I need to hate aren't going to hate themselves. And my politics are entirely formed by what I hate. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

sigdiamond2000: Sure, drilling in ANWR might not mean diddly sh*t, but these hippies I need to hate aren't going to hate themselves. And my politics are entirely formed by what I hate. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

Hey, I hate hippies too, and I'm a filthy liberal. I only hate them because I'm stuck with thousands of them in the largest hippy per capita city outside of Berkeley. And Patchouli oil smells like burnt asshole.

Tastes Like Chicken: As I see it, the problem is the oil industry doesn't have any vested interest in selling us our own oil back. Why would whoever it is that pulls the oil out sell to us rather than just put the oil on the market?

This pretty much sums it up. What is the incentive for the oil companies to sell their oil domestically, rather than on the global market? All we would be doing is adding to the global market supply, doing ZERO to decrease demand.

ElQue: I only hate them because I'm stuck with thousands of them in the largest hippy per capita city outside of Berkeley.

I thought you were speaking of Eureka/Arcata, but, yeah, I've been to Eugene, too, man.

Lionel Mandrake: ElQue: I only hate them because I'm stuck with thousands of them in the largest hippy per capita city outside of Berkeley.

I thought you were speaking of Eureka/Arcata, but, yeah, I've been to Eugene, too, man.

Then you feel my pain :)

I hope there is no math involved.

I believe the Bush administration wants to sell off the oil rights to ANWR and off-shore for a song before Bush leaves office. Thus, the struggle to put ANWR and off shore drilling to the front burner. If the Democrats come to power and agree to oil drilling anywhere, it wont' be at the kind of fire-sale prices for rights the Bush administration wants.

I drilled in ANWR, and all I got was this lousy Caribou coat.