There's always a chance it'll blow up. Iraq....three miles in the air over Florida. Same difference.

Mars, biatches.

Adjective Bird Whiskey: There's always a chance it'll blow up. Iraq....three miles in the air over Florida. Same difference.

At least a spaceflight will probably achieve something useful for the country, even if it's very very small. Iraq, on the other hand... *sigh*

RED ROCKS

We better not spend any more money on NASA, we don't want to risk not being able to afford our continuing liberation of the Iraqi peoples.

Ron Paul Revere: But the bill drew opposition from the Bush administration, which said the additional shuttle flight threatened NASA's ability to phase out the nearly three-decade-old program in 2010 and concentrate on the new equipment it needs to return man to the moon.

I hate to use cliche responses, but:

Wow. Just wow.

/the incompetenece and ignorance of this administration is beyond contempt
//hang that good-for-nothing village idiot already

You know, I don't care much for Bushiathink he's made a lot of mistakes, and set our country back in a number of respects. But, JFK once challenged our nation and our brightest minds to get us to the moon, "not because [it is] easy, but because [it is] hard." And we did it. In less than a decade, we went from a speech to the most important scientific moment in the history of mankind. And now Bush challenges us to return to the moon, and to Mars beyond, and we laugh. Maybe we're more skeptical or jaded. We have a presidential candidate who wants to mothball some of the space program to pay for social programs, even though our efforts in space have motivated two generations of our brightest students to go into science and engineering. Sad, really, what we have become. A nation that no longer asks what we can do for our country, but asks what our country can do for us.

Ron Paul Revere: But the bill drew opposition from the Bush administration, which said the additional shuttle flight threatened NASA's ability to phase out the nearly three-decade-old program in 2010 and concentrate on the new equipment it needs to return man to the moon.

I hate to use cliche responses, but:

Wow. Just wow.

I wonder how many people at NASA even give a rats ass about going back to the Moon? I know it's a necessary step in getting a manned mission to Mars, but at what price?

If you could have steak once per month and nothing else or Top Ramen every day, which would you choose? Poor analogy I know, but I'd bet they'd rather send probes to Io or Europa rather than bother with a super duper pricey manned mission.

I hate that the US space program has to decide between letting the greatest telescope ever built or greatest space vehicle to date wither and die because of a return trip to the Moon of all things.

Nabb1: And now Bush challenges us to return to the moon, and to Mars beyond, and we laugh.

Because we know he's full of shiat. No one- I mean no one- seriously believes NASA will be able to build a shuttle replacement by 2015.

We're going to be buying seats on Soyuz capsules for 20 years.

Ron Paul Revere: /the incompetenece and ignorance of this administration is beyond contempt
//hang that good-for-nothing village idiot already

So we can get super-Luddite Obama at the controls! YEAH!

Obama says NASA funding takes money away from education.

What. A. Douche.

azmoviez: I hate that the US space program has to decide between letting the greatest telescope ever built or greatest space vehicle to date wither and die because of a return trip to the Moon of all things.

Wikipedia disagrees:
However, then-NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe decided that, in order to prevent a repeat of the Columbia disaster, all future shuttles must be able to reach the 'safe-haven' of the International Space Station (ISS) should an in-flight problem develop which would preclude the shuttle from landing safely. The shuttle is incapable of reaching both the Hubble Space Telescope and the International Space Station during the same mission, and so future manned service missions were canceled.

Perhaps the next greatest telescope could be on the surface of the moon. It might yield better results, since we could put it on the far side of the Moon, so the targets will never be hidden by the Earth.

FuturePastNow: We're going to be buying seats on Soyuz capsules for 20 years.

Or the SpaceX Dragon when it starts flying in a couple of years.

azmoviez: I hate that the US space program has to decide between letting the greatest telescope ever built or greatest space vehicle to date wither and die because of a return trip to the Moon of all things.

The next spacecraft will have an escape tower again, finally.

Would have been nice for these folks:

DarthBrooks: So we can get super-Luddite Obama at the controls! YEAH!

Obama says NASA funding takes money away from education.

What. A. Douche.

No doubt McCain thinks the money would be better spent bombing something.

FuturePastNow: No doubt McCain thinks the money would be better spent bombing something.

Not according to his website.

Is this the same President Bush that wants to go to Mars? I mean, sure, the shuttle is on track to be phased out, but that doesn't mean they are still learning things with every flight. How are we ever gonna get a man on the red planet without funding or technology?

//Hooray science

This is the part where I have to ask what the practical applications are of actually putting a person on Mars.

Obama: "NASA has lost focus and is no longer associated with inspiration," he said. "I don't think our kids are watching the space shuttle launches. It used to be a remarkable thing. It doesn't even pass for news anymore."
Source (new window)

From John McCain's website:
John McCain believes curiosity and a drive to explore have always been quintessential American traits. This has been most evident in the space program, for which he will continue his strong support.

I think it's a draw. Obama is simply stating an obvious fact that NASA needs to have some accountability before we go out to Mars and beyond. A trip to Mars or even a new Apollo program would definitely inspire awe in people.

Well, I think this is more good than bad. My thoughts are on my blog now. Overall, I'm glad that Congress thinks launching an actual science project on to the ISS is a good idea. And I love it that the White House says this is bad because it'll slow down the segue to Orion, but the budget specifically adds money to accelerate Orion!

Oops.

Cagey B: This is the part where I have to ask what the practical applications are of actually putting a person on Mars.

Green b*tches in spandex miniskirts

Learning to grok

Cagey B: This is the part where I have to ask what the practical applications are of actually putting a person on Mars.

To answer the question: 215 days and 18 hours and 09 minutes and 14 seconds.

Not that I haven't been counting or have a Bu*h countdown widget or anything.

Cagey B: This is the part where I have to ask what the practical applications are of actually putting a person on Mars.

You get Super Tang, and way better Velcro® with two-way tape that won't separate from your dashboard in the summer for your iPod transmitter because of the improved adhesives.

That and it's the first step of colonizing another planet, possibly. Earth on occasion gets hit by big-assed rocks and it would be nice to have a place to go and means to get there should that happen again.

Of course Mars does too, but not at the same time.

Nabb1: You know, I don't care much for Bushiathink he's made a lot of mistakes, and set our country back in a number of respects. But, JFK once challenged our nation and our brightest minds to get us to the moon, "not because [it is] easy, but because [it is] hard." And we did it. In less than a decade, we went from a speech to the most important scientific moment in the history of mankind. And now Bush challenges us to return to the moon, and to Mars beyond, and we laugh. Maybe we're more skeptical or jaded. We have a presidential candidate who wants to mothball some of the space program to pay for social programs, even though our efforts in space have motivated two generations of our brightest students to go into science and engineering. Sad, really, what we have become. A nation that no longer asks what we can do for our country, but asks what our country can do for us.

Very well stated.

Etchy333: Wikipedia disagrees:
Perhaps the next greatest telescope could be on the surface of the moon. It might yield better results, since we could put it on the far side of the Moon, so the targets will never be hidden by the Earth.

I was kind of thinking and either or scenario and not both at the same time. I'm just concerned at all the focus and money being put on Mars when there are other (IMO) more interesting projects available.

"We ought to make good on our original commitment to fly this expensive instrument to the ISS," Rep. Ralph Hall of Texas, top Republican on the Science Committee, said in debate on the bill last week.

Pretend I inserted the Hero tag.


Also, The bill also includes $1 billion to speed up development of the Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle and the Ares I Crew Launch Vehicle which are slated to replace the shuttle.

Yes, I can see why the current administration would be opposed to that, it means actually doing something, well, productive...

Bah. The shuttle is and always was a colossal boondoggle, a gift to the aerospace industry from taxpayers. Manned exploration is a sidewhow, not science. Put the money into more unmanned probes and telescopes, not a media circus that kills a bunch of people every decade or so.

I wouldn't say the shuttle was a complete waste. It does fly into space and return, and we have surely learned a lot from the disasters we've experienced.

Unmanned space flight is great and has led to a lot of scientific discovery. I would argue though that the real end goal is actually having a way off of Earth should things go way bad here.

//That and meeting aliens.

DarthBrooks: So we can get super-Luddite Obama at the controls! YEAH!

Obama says NASA funding takes money away from education.

What. A. Douche.

I don't understand the criticism that everyone who supports Obama must agree with every single one of his positions. Few people actually do, you have to compromise a lot with 2-party systems.

But thanks for the standard "but, but, but Obama!" in a thread that has nothing to do with him.

azmoviez: If you could have steak once per month and nothing else or Top Ramen every day, which would you choose? Poor analogy I know, but I'd bet they'd rather send probes to Io or Europa rather than bother with a super duper pricey manned mission.

I hate that the US space program has to decide between letting the greatest telescope ever built or greatest space vehicle to date wither and die because of a return trip to the Moon of all things.

There are plenty of astronomers and scientists that would kill a thousand babies each if it meant that a telescope was built on the moon. Such a facility would give us previously unheard of clarity and detail.

Seriously, why dink around with these small satellites when we can go build something that makes the Hubble look like Galileo's first telescope.

Not to mention it will be useful as a starting point for mining Helium-3 should the need arise.

GAT_00: I don't understand the criticism that everyone who supports Obama must agree with every single one of his positions. Few people actually do, you have to compromise a lot with 2-party systems.

I'm vehemently opposed to Obama's NASA funding proposal. You know what else takes away from education funding? All the damn nuclear weapons we keep pointed at Russia. How about we cut it back to about 1000 missiles instead of 2500, and go to the Moon and Mars anyway?

The Icelander

How about we cut it back to about 1000 missiles instead of 2500, and go to the Moon and Mars anyway?

FTW !

Weaps: You get Super Tang,

That I do, but it has much less to do with NASA than it does my choice of mate.

The Icelander: GAT_00: I don't understand the criticism that everyone who supports Obama must agree with every single one of his positions. Few people actually do, you have to compromise a lot with 2-party systems.

I'm vehemently opposed to Obama's NASA funding proposal. You know what else takes away from education funding? All the damn nuclear weapons we keep pointed at Russia. How about we cut it back to about 1000 missiles instead of 2500, and go to the Moon and Mars anyway?

Not disagreeing with that. Obama's NASA position is my big dislike of him too.

Nabb1: Bush challenges us to return to the moon, and to Mars beyond, and we laugh.

Probably because everything Bush has touched has gone south in a hurry.

eddyatwork: Probably because everything Bush has touched has gone south in a hurry.

That's not true. He tried immigration reform and the illegals are still coming north.

/Yea, that was bad, but I had to try.

BKITU: Weaps: You get Super Tang,

That I do, but it has much less to do with NASA than it does my choice of mate.

Oh, you can thank NASA for that too. Just think, when we landed men on the moon everyone was all 'whoa, we landed men on the moon. Hey, let's fark!' Chances are your mate is a result of that union, and you can thank the Space Program for the Tang you're getting today.

I know I do.

GAT_00: Not disagreeing with that. Obama's NASA position is my big dislike of him too.

Agreed.

I bet the easiest way to get him to see how important--and inspiring for students who are studying math and science--manned space exploration is would be to have him SEE the Shuttle launch. Watching it in person, up close from the VIP area, or even out with the public along US 1 is the most awe inspiring sight.

how many days does he have left in office?

as of today, 216

/thank you Congress

JustinCase: how many days does he have left in office?

as of today, 216

/thank you Congress

To be precise, 215 days, 3 hours and some minutes. But Who's counting? ^

Benevolent Misanthrope: To be precise, 215 days, 3 hours and some minutes. But Who's counting? ^

Still about another 12 hours from when that clock runs out. The new president is sworn in at Noon and that timer ends at midnight.

What business does the U.S. government have using tax victims' money and spending it on space exploration? Leave that stuff to private enterprise and private research institutions and let the citizens keep their money.

Cagey B: This is the part where I have to ask what the practical applications are of actually putting a person on Mars.

and this is the part where i point out that for almost all basic research, such as that done at accelerators such FNAL, RHIC, and soon the LHC, and in space on the hubble and this new
digger on mars called Phoenix, and in numerous other locations and fields of study, the practical applications are many years if not many decades away.

how many years was it between faraday, gauss, and maxwell et al until we had complete control of the electron (power distribution, turbines, motors, circuits, etc etc)?

and yes, i know the answer to my question. it was not "the next week".

if you question the potential 'practical applications' you might as well question public funding for the arts too. which also has public benefits. but that's tangential to my point here.
re: public funding cutting-edge science despite the apparent lack of immediate applications to you, all i can say is:

fail.

don't do that 'ostrich head in the sand' thing. there's so much out there that needs to be understood, and if the past is any indication, there will be applications.

many many applications.

nature never runs out of puzzles for us to solve and capatilize on.

never

i guess i should have also mentioned that i'm not advocating a manned mission to mars.
i was just questioning the basic sense that i got from your post which was "how is basic research X going to make my life better right now?"....

i apologize if i misunderstood you there... i see that sentiment so often that sometimes i jump the gun in my response... and, yes, i'm paid by your tax dollars to do basic research. so i do get jumpy sometimes. forgive me if i got you wrong... cheers

I don't think anyone has taken into account that more money is great and all, but time isn't just going to appear. In order to complete the Shuttle program and transition into Orion, the workforce and infrastructure already in place would just be altered, not built from the ground up. Extending the Shuttle program extends the time that necessary labs, launch complexes, personel, offices, and buildings aren't available for the next program, unless you want to build them all from the ground up, which will take a lot more time and money than what Congress thoughtfully gave NASA. That's the reason Grif didn't want the money, because it did nothing to address the shared infrastucture.

Why do we need manned space flight? We should be able to do everything remotely. It should also be significantly less expensive since less equipment would be needed.

abbamouse: Bah. The shuttle is and always was a colossal boondoggle, a gift to the aerospace industry from taxpayers. Manned exploration is a sidewhow, not science. Put the money into more unmanned probes and telescopes, not a media circus that kills a bunch of people every decade or so.

Well a bunch of people every decade or so is not as horrible as you are making it out to be. I would certainly risk it if I were an astronaut, and the people going up probably agree with me.

I think both manned and unmanned are needed. The eventual goal is for us to be able to populate other planets, as well as learn more about the universe.

Also, manned missions always attract the greatest attention, and hence, help NASA more regarding budget and basically inspire millions of people. Man on mars vs. robot on mars are two very different things (robots on Mars is still amazing, mind you).

Nabb1: Ron Paul Revere: But the bill drew opposition from the Bush administration, which said the additional shuttle flight threatened NASA's ability to phase out the nearly three-decade-old program in 2010 and concentrate on the new equipment it needs to return man to the moon.

I hate to use cliche responses, but:

Wow. Just wow.

/the incompetenece and ignorance of this administration is beyond contempt
//hang that good-for-nothing village idiot already

You know, I don't care much for Bushiathink he's made a lot of mistakes, and set our country back in a number of respects. But, JFK once challenged our nation and our brightest minds to get us to the moon, "not because [it is] easy, but because [it is] hard." And we did it. In less than a decade, we went from a speech to the most important scientific moment in the history of mankind. And now Bush challenges us to return to the moon, and to Mars beyond, and we laugh. Maybe we're more skeptical or jaded. We have a presidential candidate who wants to mothball some of the space program to pay for social programs, even though our efforts in space have motivated two generations of our brightest students to go into science and engineering. Sad, really, what we have become. A nation that no longer asks what we can do for our country, but asks what our country can do for us.

Unfortunately THIS. :/

Cagey B: This is the part where I have to ask what the practical applications are of actually putting a person on Mars.

Are you serious?

1) Coming up with the technology to actually get us there would have far-reaching applications (outside of better unmanned probes and what not). We would need to research much more into the effects of long term survival in space. This would undoubtedly give us a wealth of information about our bodies and how it functions.

2) We cannot just fester here on one planet. It wouldn't make sense. We can increase the chance of survival of the human race by spreading out.

3) The earth is this itty bitty tiny thing and we have an ENTirE FREAKING UNIVERSE all around us. How can we as a species call ourselves any bit intelligent if we don't try to explore and learn? How is anyone alright with living in their own little cocoon?


The point is that we need to actively go and learn these things mainly because we need to learn more about how WE interact with different environments. Unmanned probes are very helpful of course, but it always leaves the problem of us being here. All in one place.

/Kaboom. We're all dead.

I am not commenting on the state of NASA, BTW. That is a whole different issue. This is just for manned exploration in general.

HappyLittleTree: I am not commenting on the state of NASA, BTW. That is a whole different issue. This is just for manned exploration in general.

I agree with your idea. I just don't particularly care for NASA. Everybody I know who has worked there has tons of negative stories.