mace ≠ pepper spray

He's running for President.

I'm more concerned and terrified of passengers having a bottle of Gatorade with them. Dear God, who knows what they will do with it on the plane!?

I had my first lesbian experience at an airport. The TSA woman was waaaaay to thorough.

/I need an aduuuuuuuult!!

"Thousands Standing Around". Okay, I chuckled a little.

what_now: I had my first lesbian experience at an airport. The TSA woman was waaaaay to thorough.

/I need an aduuuuuuuult!!

Come here. Show me on the doll where to touch you.

Chariset: Come here. Show me on the doll where to touch you.

they even screened our baby once. the tsa dude said put her in a tray. who woulda thunk it? glad to see my taxes are going to good use.

Chariset: Come here. Show me on the doll where to touch you.

Yeah, I wasn't hiding contraband there, TSA lady!!

TSA screener maces himself and eight fellow screeners trying to throw away a can of pepper spray.

Imagine if that had been a gun? Would of been even funnier......

/And no sign of the Constitution either.

Headline of the year candidate, I think we have.

/bravo

Anytime those TSA idiots get theirs is great. Bunch of assholes that were too stupid to get hired for mall security.

That was a reasoned, well thought-out story free from any of the authors biases or opinions.

what_now: I had my first lesbian experience at an airport. The TSA woman was waaaaay to thorough.

/I need an aduuuuuuuult!!

I thought I was the only one *weeps bitterly in a corner*

Ted Kennedy's Swimming Instructor: they even screened our baby once. the tsa dude said put her in a tray. who woulda thunk it? glad to see my taxes are going to good use.

What is sad is I don't know if you are kidding or not.

Regardless of whether being searched at an airport complies with our own personal standards of what is reasonable under the 4th Amendment, I think we can all agree that, for a borderline police-state apparatus, the TSA doesn't make us a whole hell of a lot safer.

I'm a Liberal and all but WOW, quite the website there.


/Lol at TSA bumblers

Oh, come on. Everyone knows:

"When you federalize-you professionalize!"

Why bother reading when the guy calls the search unconstitution in the first paragraph. Voluntary searches cannot possibly be unconstitutional.

Yeah, the TSA screening is a pain, yes it sometimes seems a bit absurd. But do you have a better idea.

Didn't think so. So, just follow the instructions, and stand in line like the rest of us. We just want to get where we are going and you arguing about your right to carry six bottles of eye drops with the screener just annoys everyone because it slows us down.

And to the idiot who insisted on arguing about the eye drops in JFK last Thursday, you brought it up, you started complaining before anyone from the TSA said a word to you, and yes you can bring all those eye drops with you as the TSA screener said, and most importantly yes you did look like a complete tool.

Gosh, that's terrible. Pity it wasn't a handgun.

Daddakamabb: What is sad is I don't know if you are kidding or not.

I logged in to say that

That's right, just comply, citizen, and your daily duties will be minimally impacted. If you buck against the security apparatus, you will just make your state-mandated compliance process more painful.

TSA frisked my 84 year old monster in law.

feckingmorons: Why bother reading when the guy calls the search unconstitution in the first paragraph. Voluntary searches cannot possibly be unconstitutional.

If you are only allowed to buy a ticket on the condition that you agree to be searched, it's not voluntary.

/fark the tsa... i fly my own plane.
//and i can take gatorade with me if i want.

Barney Fife is smiling. So is Fearless Fosdick.

You mean that wasn't Axe body spray? Ooops, sorry.

feckingmorons: Voluntary searches cannot possibly be unconstitutional.

You really beleive these searches are voluntary??

If I say "Give me your wallet or I'll shoot you", and you hand me your wallet, it was voluntary, Right?

just follow the instructions, and stand in line like the rest of us sheep. Baa.

We just want to get where we are going and you arguing ... slows us down.

Yeah, to hell with our Rights. We just want our bread and circuses! And all this talk about Rights slows us down!

never had a problem with any of the TSA people. The rest of you must be a bunch of whiners!

try fect taa daa: TSA frisked my 84 year old monster in law.

Id have paid good money to avoid seeing that.

Danger Avoid Death: You mean that wasn't Axe body spray? Ooops, sorry.

I think I'd rather be sprayed with mace that smell that foul crap.

ScubaDude1960: If you are only allowed to buy a ticket on the condition that you agree to be searched, it's not voluntary.

The entire horrible flying experience is voluntary.

Get Lost: And no sign of the Constitution either.

Help! The TSA stole my Constitution!

fredklein: feckingmorons: Voluntary searches cannot possibly be unconstitutional.

You really beleive these searches are voluntary??

If I say "Give me your wallet or I'll shoot you", and you hand me your wallet, it was voluntary, Right?

No, legally, that would be involuntary, as the consent would be extracted under coercion and duress. "Voluntary" would require the absence of such pressure.

Danger Avoid Death: You mean that wasn't Axe body spray? Ooops, sorry.

That would have been a catastrophe.

/Yuck!

Keystone Copout: Headline of the year candidate, I think we have.

/bravo

Why?
( )original
( )funny
( )clever
(o)none of the above

Samsaran: Searches conducted at the United States border or the equivalent of the border (such as an international airport) may be conducted without a warrant or probable cause subject to the "border-search" exception.Most border searches may be conducted entirely at random, without any level of suspicion, pursuant to Customs' plenary search authority. However, searches that intrude upon traveler's personal dignity and privacy interests, including strip and body cavity searches must be supported by 'reasonable suspicion.

So, does that clear things up for all you Fark Arm Chair Constitutional Lawyers?

Not really. You see, most of the flyers are flying INSIDE the US, so the "border or the equivalent of the border" does not apply.

All they need is "reasonable suspicion"

Is that why granny gets forced out of her wheelchair to stand while she is patted down/felt up while Abdullah walks on thru? Because they had a "reasonable suspicion" that a crippled 80-year-old white lady was a threat, but a middle-eastern male was not??

No need for any probable cause or suspicion of any kind for a non invasive search. All they need is "reasonable suspicion" a much less stringent standard than probable cause to strip search you and do a cavity probe. This is not Bush or 9/11. It has been this way for years.

That's still a lot of power to give to somebody who wasn't bright enough to get an honest job.

feckingmorons:Yeah, the TSA screening is a pain, yes it sometimes seems a bit absurd. But do you have a better idea.

More use of ion mobility spectrometers to swab passengers & check for explosive residues, rather than physical searches. ...also, some of the screening procedures are clearly fatuous. For instance, rather than having everyone take off their shoes, how about simply having them step up on a wooden block while passing through the metal detector (to get a clear scan, free of floor-interference). That, combined with the previously-mentioned spectrometers, should be able to detect anything nasty in the shoes.

Also, the liquid ban is very, very silly. Most explosives are not liquids anyway (and the chemical residue detection would cover both liquids and solids -- actually, it would probably be even more effective with liquids due to vapor pressure issues).

...and I could go on all day like this...

Clearly security is necessary, but the manner in which it is currently implemented appears to be focused on creating a scene rather than being rooted in sound science.

/chemical engineer

fredkleinIs that why granny gets forced out of her wheelchair to stand while she is patted down/felt up while Abdullah walks on thru? Because they had a "reasonable suspicion" that a crippled 80-year-old white lady was a threat, but a middle-eastern male was not??

No, it's because profiling is illegal.

BravadoGT: No, legally, that would be involuntary, as the consent would be extracted under coercion and duress. "Voluntary" would require the absence of such pressure.

Pressure such as "Consent to a search or you can't fly"?

I can't fly, I lose my job. Or I can't visit my parents. Or I can't fly to Vegas to gamble. Or I can't get to DisneyWorld to have fun.

Offering me a choice 'Consent to a search or we'll fark up your vacation' is "coercion and duress". Not quite as severe as 'gimme money or I'll injure you', but it is still coercion and still duress.

feckingmorons: Yeah, the TSA screening is a pain, yes it sometimes seems a bit absurd. But do you have a better idea.

Yes.

1) Reinforce cockpit doors.
2) Go back to the level of security we had pre-9/11.
3) Profit.

Barney Fife approves.

iconoclastic:
No, it's because profiling is illegal.

But "reasonable suspicion" is not. Is it "reasonable" to be suspicious of granny? No. Is is reasonable to be more suspicious of a middle-eastern male than granny? Yes.

iconoclastic:No, it's because profiling is illegal.

How about this:

1) consider the population of all hijackers of aircraft in the US over the last 30 years
2) choose a number of characteristics (country of origin, hair color, facial hair present?, etc., etc.) -- preferably *all* properties that a security agent could observe quickly about a given person
3) look for statistically significant correlations between any of those characteristics and the group of known hijackers
4) use these (now known) correlations to weight the sample of people chosen for more intensive searches, with a computer calculating who will be searched and who will not (to avoid human bias)

Such a procedure would not be "discriminatory" since it is drawn purely from real data rather than a particular screener's prejudices. Also, since 80 year-old ladies have not hijacked any planes previously, such a method would mean that they would only rarely be searched (not 0%, but "rarely").

fredklein:1) Reinforce cockpit doors.

This will make knives (and, to a certain extent, guns) irrelevant, but it will not prevent a bomb from destroying the aircraft or a poison gas from killing everyone aboard.

exit: Get Lost: And no sign of the Constitution either.

Help! The TSA stole my Constitution!

They'll definitely confiscate your Bill of Rights -- Security Edition.

/Subby

fredklein

Everyone gets the same level of screening, anything extra is done at random. Unless you exhibit suspicious behavior, and just being "middle eastern" in appearance doesn't count as being suspicious.

feckingmorons: Yeah, the TSA screening is a pain, yes it sometimes seems a bit absurd. But do you have a better idea.

Yeah, don't bother with them at all, they are a waste of time and money.

If anything let each airline screen its passengers to the degree they would like and can afford.

Oh shiat, LewRockwell.com got greenlit. This will be a hell of a thread.

/LRC-er

jshine: fredklein:1) Reinforce cockpit doors.

This will make knives (and, to a certain extent, guns) irrelevant, but it will not prevent a bomb from destroying the aircraft or a poison gas from killing everyone aboard.

Nor will it stop aliens from beaming up all the passengers.

Look, I'm not suggesting we stop screening entirely. Just go back to the pre-9/11 procedures. Still make passengers walk thru the metal detectors, just not make them take off their shoes. Still x-ray luggage, just not make people put their laptops in a seperate bin. Still stop people from carrying anything dangerous onboard, just not throw away my bottled water or 3.4 ounce bottle of shampoo.

You know, basically take away all the bullshiat the TSA brought with it.