No, he doubts that McCain was a "war hero." He appears perfectly willing to acknowledge that McCain was a POW.

I'd be shocked and alarmed at such a statement. Good thing he didn't say it.

"Now listen, you queer, stop calling me a crypto-Nazi or I'll sock you in your goddamn face and you'll stay plastered."

Vidal said "Everyone knows he was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. That's what he tells us."

Sounds like he's casting some doubt into the air there.

So, why hasn't Obama denounced this guy yet?

McCainDemocrat: Vidal said "Everyone knows he was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. That's what he tells us."

Sounds like he's casting some doubt into the air there.

So, why hasn't Obama denounced this guy yet?

So what, Obama should go around denouncing everybody who says something bad about McCain? This old loonie isn't connected to Obama at all as I understand it, so why should he denounce him?

If I slag off McCain does Obama have to denounce me?

Vidal can be brilliant, but has a real tendency to say some incredibly stupid things. For example, take the really embarassing way he championed Timothy McVeigh after the Oklahoma City bombing.

jake_lex: For example, take the really embarassing way he championed Timothy McVeigh after the Oklahoma City bombing.

Never champion the right wing, is that what you're saying?

savage henry: jake_lex: For example, take the really embarassing way he championed Timothy McVeigh after the Oklahoma City bombing.

Never champion the right wing, is that what you're saying?

No, don't champion someone who blew up a damn building.

Pocket Ninja: No, he doubts that McCain was a "war hero." He appears perfectly willing to acknowledge that McCain was a POW.

TFA: "Who started this rumor that he was a war hero? Where does that come from, aside from himself? About his suffering in the prison war camp?"

He's calling McCain's time as a POW a "rumor." Doesn't sound to me like he's acknowledging it.

Getting captured doesn't make him a hero, but from what I hear his service as a POW was distinguished.

Suicidal Writer: "Now listen, you queer, stop calling me a crypto-Nazi or I'll sock you in your goddamn face and you'll stay plastered."

Wish WFB did that. Watching those clips Vidal was clearly an obnoxious motormouth trying to monologue. They wound up suing each other for libel. It ended with Vidal paying to court costs for both of them.

WFB was relevant when he died. Aside from a few smutty books, Vidal is going to be forgotten soon enough.

/Considers Vidal a gay Ezra Pound. But with less talent.

Wolfmanjames: /Considers Vidal a gay Ezra Pound. But with less talent.

So being gay turns him from a novelist to a poet?

dick move, Vidal

Wolfmanjames: WFB was relevant when he died.

No, Buckley looked to what the GOP had become & despaired.

Iraqnam & Rush Limbaugh demoralized him a great deal...

Gore Vidal is like our Oscar Wilde.

Funny how the right-wing spittle starts flying when someone swiftboats one of their guys.

/How does it feel?

I got through the first few lines thinking, "oh, this guy's just a curmudgeon," but when I got to this:

On one of the nation's founding fathers, John Adams? He "waddled into history."

I knew he was a farking idiot.


/ buckley should have socked that queer in his goddamn face

SubmitardThe scary part is he's related to two of the last three Democrats to win the presidential election

How is this relevant? They're are plenty of nutjobs related to all Presidential candidates. Even you have some crazy relative somewhere who would shout out absurd shiat. Every farking person does.

Now is one of them appoints Gore Vidal to public office, then let's bring the question up.

Wolfmanjames: WFB was relevant when he died. Aside from a few smutty books, Vidal is going to be forgotten soon enough.

I think Vidal will end up benefiting from his close, albeit tumultuous, associations with Capote and Mailer, and I see no reason why Capote would be remembered in 50 years, so it may all come down to Mailer, and if he, Mailer, doesn't make the permanent Western Canon--the Naked and the Dead is his best shot--then Vidal will most likely become an obscure historical figure, and I am betting against Vidal being remembered for his quite average novels, but he is a talented, although somewhat paranoid, essayist, but he hasn't written anything on par with, say, Orwell, and I can't think of any of his work that will stick out in a generation or two, and Vidal once lamented the fact that writers are no longer celebrities, and I think that Vidal is known as a literary celebrity mostly, and there is no reason for celebrities to be remembered outside of their own generation unless they die tragically.

John McCain was an enemy combatant who underwent advanced interrogation techniques. I hear that's similar to frat hazing.

Who the hell is this guy? I'd never even heard of him until a couple weeks ago

Oh noes!11! It's Vidalgate!!

The Beacon Man: There's no hate like liberal hateTM.

Can somebody who's more fluent in conservative-speak please tell me why right-wingers keep parroting this line? Is it a Rush Limbaugh catchphrase or something? Maybe some kind of psychological projection???

Songbirdgate?

lilbjorn: Funny how the right-wing spittle starts flying when someone swiftboats one of their guys.

/How does it feel?

that shouldn't distract us from the fact that it's a deplorable thing to do, and the fact that they did it to Kerry doesn't make it okay now

LordPistachio: Pocket Ninja: No, he doubts that McCain was a "war hero." He appears perfectly willing to acknowledge that McCain was a POW.

TFA: "Who started this rumor that he was a war hero? Where does that come from, aside from himself? About his suffering in the prison war camp?"

He's calling McCain's time as a POW a "rumor." Doesn't sound to me like he's acknowledging it.

no he's not. its right in the quote. he refers to his status as a "war hero" as a rumor. He admits that he suffered as a POW, he's just saying that doesn't necessarily make him a war hero.

Vidal's not an idiot.

p0tat0_dude: The Beacon Man: There's no hate like liberal hateTM.

Maybe some kind of psychological projection???

In BM's case, yes.

Pocket Ninja [TotalFark] Quote 2008-06-15 03:58:08 PM
No, he doubts that McCain was a "war hero." He appears perfectly willing to acknowledge that McCain was a POW.

McCain was no war hero.

Vidal is 100% correct.

If you get captured and make propaganda tapes against your own country, you aren't a war hero.

Don't get me wrong. I would do the same thing. I don't begrudge McCain doing what he needed to do to live. But there is nothing heroic about it.

Doesn't surprise me, Vidal pals around with the likes of Lynne Stewart. I expect that he is a "troofer" as well.

TFA: "Who started this rumor that he was a war hero? Where does that come from, aside from himself? About his suffering in the prison war camp?"

He's calling McCain's time as a POW a "rumor." Doesn't sound to me like he's acknowledging it.

No, the statement quite clearly says the rumor that he was a war hero. The rumor is that he was a war hero, not that he was a POW.

Vidal then asks if his suffering as a POW is what gives the rumor he is a war hero?

Again, I totally agree with him on this point. Suffering does not make you a hero. I don't know why people say that. YOu see it all the time. "Lenny survived cancer, he is so heroic!" Suffering and surviving don't make you a hero.

Look, McCain chose to fight for the US. In that respect, he is something of a hero (as is EVERY solider who has ever fought)

But he did nothing heroic as a soldier.

ekdikeo4 Quote 2008-06-15 07:08:07 PM
Who the hell is this guy? I'd never even heard of him until a couple weeks ago

Why brag about your ignorance?

/I don't care that much about Vidal either way, but he has been a towring figure in AMerican life for decades...

Of course McCain was a POW, we've got his own word for it:

"I said, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

God only knows what's in those Navy records that Dad-miral McCain got sealed to protect Johnny Jr.

/payback's a biatch ain't it, swift boaters?

WFB was relevant when he died.

No he wasn't.

Did anyone else follow the Neil Young link at the bottom? It refers to fans reacting angrily to anti-war songs, which seems kind of odd. I guess I'm giving concert-goers too much credit when it comes to knowing anything about the person whose show they're attending, or that person's back-catalog.

Bill Frist: TFA: "Who started this rumor that he was a war hero? Where does that come from, aside from himself? About his suffering in the prison war camp?"

He's calling McCain's time as a POW a "rumor." Doesn't sound to me like he's acknowledging it.

No, the statement quite clearly says the rumor that he was a war hero. The rumor is that he was a war hero, not that he was a POW.

Vidal then asks if his suffering as a POW is what gives the rumor he is a war hero?

Again, I totally agree with him on this point. Suffering does not make you a hero. I don't know why people say that. YOu see it all the time. "Lenny survived cancer, he is so heroic!" Suffering and surviving don't make you a hero.

Look, McCain chose to fight for the US. In that respect, he is something of a hero (as is EVERY solider who has ever fought)

But he did nothing heroic as a soldier.


Even the ones who didn't want to (i.e., were drafted)??

HansensDisease: Of course McCain was a POW, we've got his own word for it:

"I said, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

God only knows what's in those Navy records that Dad-miral McCain got sealed to protect Johnny Jr.

/payback's a biatch ain't it, swift boaters?

congrats. You're now just as big of a scum-sucking douchebag as they were. Way to go, armchair warrior

His cornflakes--who peed in them?

p.


Suicidal Writer [TotalFark] Quote 2008-06-15 07:07:37 PM
Wolfmanjames: WFB was relevant when he died. Aside from a few smutty books, Vidal is going to be forgotten soon enough.

I think Vidal will end up benefiting from his close, albeit tumultuous, associations with Capote and Mailer, and I see no reason why Capote would be remembered in 50 years, so it may all come down to Mailer, and if he, Mailer, doesn't make the permanent Western Canon--the Naked and the Dead is his best shot--then Vidal will most likely become an obscure historical figure, and I am betting against Vidal being remembered for his quite average novels, but he is a talented, although somewhat paranoid, essayist, but he hasn't written anything on par with, say, Orwell, and I can't think of any of his work that will stick out in a generation or two, and Vidal once lamented the fact that writers are no longer celebrities, and I think that Vidal is known as a literary celebrity mostly, and there is no reason for celebrities to be remembered outside of their own generation unless they die tragically.


Gore Vidal is not on the level of Capote or Mailer (i'd say "Executioner's Song" is Mailer's best bet though...), but it wouldn't surprise me if many of his essays are studied and read for a long time.

Even the ones who didn't want to (i.e., were drafted)??


It is debatable and I could see arguments either way...

but hte main point is that McCain was a traitor to his country during his POW years.

If you are a traitor, you are not a war hero. I'm sorry. and again, I woul dhave been just as much of a traitor as McCain, so I'm not condeming his actions... just saying they preclude him being a hero.

savage henry: jake_lex: For example, take the really embarassing way he championed Timothy McVeigh after the Oklahoma City bombing.

Never champion the right wing, is that what you're saying?

So you're admitting that Timothy McVeigh was a champion of the right wing?

Bill Frist: It is debatable and I could see arguments either way...

Good on you for recognizing that. Seriously. Well done.

priestrape: congrats. You're now just as big of a scum-sucking douchebag as they were. Way to go, armchair warrior

bite me. at least what I'm saying is actually true. armchair cocksucker.

Coelacanth: If being in a prison where they treat you rotten makes you presidential material, then we have at least a million black candidates out on the streets right now.

My utter disdain of John McCain claiming to be a war "hero" doesn't change the fact that North Vietnamese prison camps were way worse than any American prison. He was in fact tortured. He also broke and betrayed his country by his own words.

HansensDisease: priestrape: congrats. You're now just as big of a scum-sucking douchebag as they were. Way to go, armchair warrior

bite me. at least what I'm saying is actually true. armchair cocksucker.

you don't have any idea if it's true, you're just parroting someone else's crap

get yourself one of these



at least this sow had the guts to wear her idiocy on the outside for all to see, instead of playing internet tough guy anonymously

you don't have any idea if it's true, you're just parroting someone else's crap

lolz, he can't quote McCain's own words? Quoting McCain's own words is "parroting someone else's crap"?

Are you guys seriously using the word "traitor" for someone who broke under torture?

Bill Frist: lolz, he can't quote McCain's own words? Quoting McCain's own words is "parroting someone else's crap"?

lolz..."God only knows what's in those Navy records that Dad-miral McCain got sealed to protect Johnny Jr." is what I was referring to

priestrape Quote 2008-06-15 08:07:45 PM
Are you guys seriously using the word "traitor" for someone who broke under torture?

are people seriously using the word "hero" for someone who broke under torture and betrayed his country?

and again, I'm sure I would have broken too... but I also wouldn't go around pretending I was a hero.

The Westboro Baptist Church, middle America will probably be happy when this homosexual dies and ends up burning in hell. According to the Bible and God when you're a homosexual, you end up in hell.