Is the Massachusetts sex trifecta now in play?

Beginning July 1, DSS will reserve nine beds at a secure, undisclosed Boston location for girls ages 12 to 21,

The state also is setting aside five beds for girls, boys and transgender youngsters in private homes with foster parents specially trained to work with teenagers who have been sexually exploited, Kritz said

Um, giggity?

/sitting right here

So wrong. So very very wrong.

Are the kids actually "transgendered" (read: mutilated genitals) because they had the surgery unwillingly through force by a pimp or sex slave ring? Or are they "transgendered" because they like dressing up like the other sex and pretending to be such? Either way it doesn't really matter much I suppose.

I'll take a homeless, previously exploited, clean, girl to go.. hell, make that two.

What? I'll be good.

/eats a brownie and has a glass of lemonade

Chris Hansen gets interviewed by Anthony at Opie and Anthony
Link (new window)

I laughed, and then I felt dirty and ashamed.

happy fathers day!

Well, it is father's day and I should be getting something special...

Dr.Knockboots
Are the kids actually "transgendered" (read: mutilated genitals) because they had the surgery unwillingly through force by a pimp or sex slave ring? Or are they "transgendered" because they like dressing up like the other sex and pretending to be such? Either way it doesn't really matter much I suppose.


Your first one is Transexual. Your second is Transvestite.

Transgender is the mental state of being the opposing gender, it does not mean that the parts have yet been changed.

Do they also offer regular teen sex slaves? 'Cause I'll take one of those.

Bridget?

IkilledJudas: Do they also offer regular teen sex slaves? 'Cause I'll take one of those.

But only if they like it.



/Doesn't want to exploit anyone against their will.

*Octopus and lubricant-filled hot tub sold seperately

Unknown_Poltroon: But only if they like it.



/Doesn't want to exploit anyone against their will.

Yea, rape isn't cool.

I liked the ad they had on the page:



/Personally, the 13th amendment really should have only defined slavery by race as illegal.

Funk Brothers: Bridget?

Everyone is gay for bridget.

"There's definitely a huge need for safeclean beds for these kidswhores," said Stacy Dellorfano

//FTFM

Ahem, pic for above.

spyderqueen: Dr.Knockboots
Are the kids actually "transgendered" (read: mutilated genitals) because they had the surgery unwillingly through force by a pimp or sex slave ring? Or are they "transgendered" because they like dressing up like the other sex and pretending to be such? Either way it doesn't really matter much I suppose.


Your first one is Transexual. Your second is Transvestite.

Transgender is the mental state of being the opposing gender, it does not mean that the parts have yet been changed.

ahh yes, duh, i knew better.
I'll just take my two girls and leave now, since that's the only reason i came here in the first place.

AWESOME

spyderqueen: Dr.Knockboots
Are the kids actually "transgendered" (read: mutilated genitals) because they had the surgery unwillingly through force by a pimp or sex slave ring? Or are they "transgendered" because they like dressing up like the other sex and pretending to be such? Either way it doesn't really matter much I suppose.


Your first one is Transexual. Your second is Transvestite.

Transgender is the mental state of being the opposing gender, it does not mean that the parts have yet been changed.

Actually there's no such thing as transgender, but DSM IV does list "Gender Identity Disorder." GID has a 90%+ cure rate if identified and treated early enough. After therapy most of these young boys with GID that hate their body so much they they want to mutilate themselves end up growing up to be well adjusted gay males with a healthy body image. See the Village Voice Article "See Tom Be Jane" for more on that.

beoswulf: they they the FTFM

I make so many typos I must really be a 13 year old girl from Myspace trapped inside a pasty Irishman body.

beoswulf: spyderqueen: Dr.Knockboots
Are the kids actually "transgendered" (read: mutilated genitals) because they had the surgery unwillingly through force by a pimp or sex slave ring? Or are they "transgendered" because they like dressing up like the other sex and pretending to be such? Either way it doesn't really matter much I suppose.


Your first one is Transexual. Your second is Transvestite.

Transgender is the mental state of being the opposing gender, it does not mean that the parts have yet been changed.

Actually there's no such thing as transgender, but DSM IV does list "Gender Identity Disorder." GID has a 90%+ cure rate if identified and treated early enough. After therapy most of these young boys with GID that hate their body so much they they want to mutilate themselves end up growing up to be well adjusted gay males with a healthy body image. See the Village Voice Article "See Tom Be Jane" for more on that.

Or submissive men.

FTFA: also will have a mentor to help guide them

Father Moriarty?

Boys, girls, and transgender? Sorry, boys and girls are the only options. Anything else is a masquerade, even if surgically enhanced.

/Aside from the birth defect of hermaphroditism.

TheGreyPiper: Boys, girls, and transgender? Sorry, boys and girls are the only options. Anything else is a masquerade, even if surgically enhanced.

/Aside from the birth defect of hermaphroditism.

You are aware that gender is a social construct, right? And that sex and gender aren't the same thing? In western culture we're pretty hung-up on defining gender as sex (although we are making progress). Other cultures don't have the same hang-ups.

Ghastly: TheGreyPiper: Boys, girls, and transgender? Sorry, boys and girls are the only options. Anything else is a masquerade, even if surgically enhanced.

/Aside from the birth defect of hermaphroditism.

You are aware that gender is a social construct, right? And that sex and gender aren't the same thing? In western culture we're pretty hung-up on defining gender as sex (although we are making progress). Other cultures don't have the same hang-ups.

You realize this statement is an example of the post-modern liberterian bullshiat that liberal arts profesors pour onto their students, right?

I thought transgender also applied to people born with ambiguous physical sexual traits. From what I've read, a lot of those people have a hard time in life and quite a few ended up being exploited by people. Also, a lot of the people who were born one sex but always felt like the other often had a brain which was more like the opposite gender of the body they had. Think there was some research showing some of it was to do with brain formation in utero and the mother's hormone levels.

Must be hell spending your life repulsed and not wanting the gender of the body you ended up with. I can't imagine being stuck going through life with a man's body instead of a woman's.

What, no Rush Limbaugh comments? Come on, fark, you're disappointing me here.

beoswulf: GID has a 90%+ cure rate if identified and treated early enough. After therapy most of these young boys with GID that hate their body so much they they want to mutilate themselves end up growing up to be well adjusted gay males with a healthy body image. See the Village Voice Article "See Tom Be Jane" for more on that.

Ken Zucker, the "researcher" who is quoted in the article you cited to produce the "90%+ cure rate", has very little credibility. The clinic where he made his career is widely reviled by the trans community for its barbaric experimentation and practices on its patients. Kindly, please stop spreading this propaganda.

http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/kenneth-zucker.html
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Dreger/ASB%20paper/Zucker/Zucker%20su b verts%20ASB.html
http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2007/05/zucker-and-bradley/

FunkOut: I thought transgender also applied to people born with ambiguous physical sexual traits.
.

well th technical term for that is intersexed


Must be hell spending your life repulsed and not wanting the gender of the body you ended up with. I can't imagine being stuck going through life with a man's body instead of a woman's.


yeah it does suck

hardinparamedic

You realize this statement is an example of the post-modern liberterian bullshiat that liberal arts profesors pour onto their students, right?

Gender being a social construct is a fact--or are you going to claim that different cultures' interpretations of sexuality are due to genetics?

Dr.Knockboots: I'll take a homeless, previously exploited, clean, girl to go.. hell, make that two.

You want fries with that?

Ghastly: You are aware that gender is a social construct, right? And that sex and gender aren't the same thing? In western culture we're pretty hung-up on defining gender as sex (although we are making progress). Other cultures don't have the same hang-ups.

/stupid image filter

Pfft. Silly Mass. This is what Craigslist is for.

Ghastly: You are aware that gender is a social construct, right? And that sex and gender aren't the same thing? In western culture we're pretty hung-up on defining gender as sex (although we are making progress). Other cultures don't have the same hang-ups.



/third time's a charm

hardinparamedic: Ghastly: TheGreyPiper: Boys, girls, and transgender? Sorry, boys and girls are the only options. Anything else is a masquerade, even if surgically enhanced.

/Aside from the birth defect of hermaphroditism.

You are aware that gender is a social construct, right? And that sex and gender aren't the same thing? In western culture we're pretty hung-up on defining gender as sex (although we are making progress). Other cultures don't have the same hang-ups.

You realize this statement is an example of the post-modern liberterian bullshiat that liberal arts profesors pour onto their students, right?

Actually it sounds like the kind of garbage people use to justify exhibiting frequent behavior not generally associated with their gender. Like you really need to justify it.

And to be utterly frank, modern western culture in a lot of ways is actually far more permissive than most people would first think, especially when considering how people are allowed to interpret/demonstrate their gender/sex.

For example, almost every TG person I've ever met likes to point to some sort of primitive culture and say something to the effect of, "Well we were accepted there" - and yes, while that may be true, it totally ignores the fact that in these societies your gender still dictated what you were or were not allowed to do. If anything, they were actually far more repressive than modern societies in many ways because, yes, of course it must feel nice to know that you have your spot on the shelf in between the boys and the girls, but what if that came along with knowing that you had a lifetime role as the village sacred yak pooper-scooper?

In any case, we've actually made huge progress in terms of gender over the last 50 years or so, much more comprehensive than any other society that has come before us. It may be hard to acknowledge that when you are outside of the mainstream, but the desire to "fit in" and perhaps the lack of a (common knowledge) gender classification in western society for TG's doesn't negate the huge progress that our entire society have made in areas like personal expression.

For me, personally, I think it's awesome that little Suzie doesn't have to look forward to staying home and baking cakes and rearing children (unless she wants to of course), and that it's now socially acceptable for a father to hug his son and tell him he loves him in public. These are great things and come about directly from the blurring of gender roles and stereotypes within our society. I'm sure that eventually we'll get to somewhere that will satisfy nearly everyone, but really, I find the whole denigrating western culture thing on the part of gays (or gay friendly straights) tiresome. It reminds me of those old blue haired republican ladies and cranky old men who will swear up and down that people were cleaner, nicer, more moral and happier back when they were kids a million years ago - even though it's a big fat lie.

Things change. They get better. Looking to the past for the future is a suckers game. We're supposed to learn from it, not try to emulate it.

hardinparamedic:
You realize this statement is an example of the post-modern liberterian bullshiat that liberal arts profesors pour onto their students, right?

No this is the statement of someone who majored in anthropology and realizes that just because one culture does things a certain way that doesn't mean it's the correct or only way to do things.

There are cultures that recognize more than two or even three genders just as there are cultures whose recognized forms of marriage are completely alien to that of the western world.

It's a big world out there people, you should try to visit it sometime.

Ghastly: hardinparamedic:
You realize this statement is an example of the post-modern liberterian bullshiat that liberal arts profesors pour onto their students, right?

No this is the statement of someone who majored in anthropology and realizes that just because one culture does things a certain way that doesn't mean it's the correct or only way to do things.

There are cultures that recognize more than two or even three genders just as there are cultures whose recognized forms of marriage are completely alien to that of the western world.

It's a big world out there people, you should try to visit it sometime.

Anthropology. That's the study of dead cultures and civilizations, isnt it?

genderqueer is a joke. Biologically we are hard-wired for gender, even though those wires are sometimes crossed (i.e. Transgendered). There is no ambiguity between humanity. We are male, or female. One way or another. Insert tab A into Slot B.

hardinparamedic

Anthropology. That's the study of dead cultures and civilizations, isnt it?

It's the study of people. They don't have to be dead.

hardinparamedic:
Anthropology. That's the study of dead cultures and civilizations, isnt it?


That's archeology which is one of the disciplines within anthropology.

I get tired of the same bigoted, closed minded arguments every time one of these threads come up. We all have the right to be comfortable in out own skins and people suffering gender dysphoria have enough pain in their life without the rest of us making it worse for them.

If you were born with gender that matches your sex then consider yourself lucky and be happy. Talk to a post-op tranny sometime. That's some serious farking physical pain they go through to try and put things right. Imagine then how much worse their mental pain must have been to make that seem like a decent trade-off.

For a society that still espouses "Christian values" above all else there are sure as hell a lot of people concerned with the motes in everyone else's eyes.

hardinparamedic: Ghastly: hardinparamedic:
You realize this statement is an example of the post-modern liberterian bullshiat that liberal arts profesors pour onto their students, right?

No this is the statement of someone who majored in anthropology and realizes that just because one culture does things a certain way that doesn't mean it's the correct or only way to do things.

There are cultures that recognize more than two or even three genders just as there are cultures whose recognized forms of marriage are completely alien to that of the western world.

It's a big world out there people, you should try to visit it sometime.

Anthropology. That's the study of dead cultures and civilizations, isnt it?

genderqueer is a joke. Biologically we are hard-wired for gender, even though those wires are sometimes crossed (i.e. Transgendered). There is no ambiguity between humanity. We are male, or female. One way or another. Insert tab A into Slot B.

You're mixing up biology with sociology.

Sex = Penis or Vagina. Binary.
Gender = Outward expression of Masculinity/Femininity within the framework of societal boundaries.

For the vast majority of people sex is binary (unless you happen to have an abnormal medical condition). Gender on the other hand can be thought of as a floating scale. Everyone is familiar with the stereotypes of the "Tom boy" and the "Momma's boy", right? Just two different dots along this masculine/feminine scale.

I know we use the words interchangeably most of the time when we are speaking English commonly, but there is a valid argument that they don't exactly mean the same thing.

When a man is a woman trapped in a man's body and he has a little operation, he's a transsexual.

When a straight man dresses up as a woman for kicks, he's a transvestite.

But when a gay man has too much fashion sense for one gender then he is a drag queen.

And a boy in a dress is just a boy in a dress.

/Julie Newmar is my goddess.

Ghastly: hardinparamedic:
Anthropology. That's the study of dead cultures and civilizations, isnt it?


That's archeology which is one of the disciplines within anthropology.

I get tired of the same bigoted, closed minded arguments every time one of these threads come up. We all have the right to be comfortable in out own skins and people suffering gender dysphoria have enough pain in their life without the rest of us making it worse for them.

If you were born with gender that matches your sex then consider yourself lucky and be happy. Talk to a post-op tranny sometime. That's some serious farking physical pain they go through to try and put things right. Imagine then how much worse their mental pain must have been to make that seem like a decent trade-off.

For a society that still espouses "Christian values" above all else there are sure as hell a lot of people concerned with the motes in everyone else's eyes.
THIS!!!

hardinparamedic: genderqueer is a joke. Biologically we are hard-wired for gender, even though those wires are sometimes crossed (i.e. Transgendered). There is no ambiguity between humanity. We are male, or female. One way or another. Insert tab A into Slot B.

BWAAAHAAAHAAAAAHHAAAAAA!


Oh man, I needed that laugh, although it hurts because I'm still hungover from last night.

OK, I want you to take just 5-10 minutes away from Fark for a bit and go here: wikipedia article on intersex (new window). There are a lot more intersexed people (usually referred to as hermaphrodites, although this is not the best term) than you realize, many of these conditions caused prebirth by incorrect or improper hormone balances, sometimes by medicines, and sometime just by chromosomes getting mis-wired.

Now then that being said, I think its fairly safe to say you come from a fairly sheltered world in a way. That's alright, I come from one also. When I was growing up, there was no such thing as gays and lesbians and transsexuals which really confused the hell out of me since I was transgendered, had never heard that term, but liked girls, so assumed I was just a straight guy with some really strange and perverted tastes and fantasies. College changed that because I got to see such a wider world.

I came for transgender teen sex slaves and I was not disappointed.

Ah, yes! Sex and Gender. That lovely part of SOC 101 sandwiched in between "Blah, blah, blah, Karl Marx blah, blah, blah." and "Blah, blah, blah, war weapons are shaped like penises, blah, blah, blah." I don't remember much after that due to brain damage caused by beating my head against my desk while screaming "FLUID DYNAMICS YOU IDIOT!"

So some people got the wrong software for their hardware, fine, it's not like there's one on every street corner. Treat them decently and drop the friggin witch trial crap, great! Don't try to tell me there's not something wrong with the wiring up there.

Of course there is the obligatory mention of the Bunga Wunga people of wherever. You Social Science types always have to go and pull some stone age aboriginal types out of your ass don't you? Damn the great majority of human cultures in the rest of the world here's a bunch of assholes in mud huts to show that it's OK that I like to wear my sisters clothes. It's never any big group is it? The Chinese, hell there's a few Billion of them. Indians another Billion or so. Never a word about 'em. We know the Europeans are right out. Mayans? Bedouins? Koreans? Hell No! Always some tribe with about 50 people in the middle of nowhere.

Then you wonder why we don't take this crap seriously. That's the real punchline.

I don't care if some guy wants to dress up as Sailor Moon. I don't advocate electroshock therapy or psychoactive drugs any more than I would for an autistic kid or one with Down syndrome. Just don't sit there and try to tell me that those people aren't screwed up. Men should act like men and women should act like women. Of course there's a great degree of variation within and between societies, but the software should match the hardware. In the end it comes down to one simple thing. You can't gestate a fetus in a box.

ITT: I get told how I am WRONG.

One more thing, and this is kind of in response to hardinparamedic

This is something that I've put together recently, and I'm going to peg hardinparamedic as a #3. These are generally speaking the 5 types of posts I've usually been able to discern from Farkers who are in some cases anti-tranny or not necessarily bigoted but just unaware of what is actually out there and going on. The whole concept of gender/sex/sexually has entire sections devoted to it in bookstores, so what follows is a highly simplified version of a very complex issue.


1) "These people are crazy and need psychiatric help, not surgery."
Some of us are indeed crazy and have very deep psychological issues. Coming to terms with being transgendered is not an easy process, and once you come to terms with it, deciding what to do with your life and how to deal with being transgendered becomes the next step. Some choose to alter their bodies to match their minds as the mind cannot be changed to fit the body (see below). Some are unable to alter their bodies for medical or social reasons. Many see at the very least 2 different psychologists/therapists at some point, as well as a host of different medical doctors.

2) "Trannies are just fags that need to accept they are fags and not harm their bodies."
This is often said due to a lack of understanding how gender and sexuality work together. Gay men are men that enjoy being guys and enjoy being with other guys in a sexual or romantic manner. Gay women are women that enjoy being women and enjoy being with other women in a sexual or romantic manner. Transsexuals are men or women who have felt, usually since puberty if not longer, that something about their minds does not match their bodies sexually. It is almost impossible to change the mind without great damage, so the body gets changed instead. This outlook on one's sexuality, how
one feels about their body and personality sexually, can generally be described as one aspect of gender. How one perceives themselves is only one aspect of sexual orientation.

3) "I have a penis which makes me know that I'm male. There, how difficult was that to find out who and what I was?"

Let's start with the following 5 known clinical understandings about human sexuality:
reproductive/sexual organ ≠ gender
reproductive/sexual organ ≈ sex
gender ≠ sex
gender ≠ sexual orientation
sex ≠ sexual orientation

Gender is for the most part made up of two things. 1. How you perceive yourself; and 2) How others perceive you. To say the reproductive/sexual organ=sex is true for the most part in that having a penis makes one a man; and a vagina a female, biologically speaking for classification purposes. This is true in many situations, but it is not an accurate or solid view of the world. Remember, causation ≠ correlation . But what about females born without ovaries, or who have other reproductive issues such as hysterectomies? Does that make them less female (biological) or less feminine (gender)? Or what about men who loose their testes due to accident or cancer, does that make them less male? Furthermore, there are numerous people out there that are intersexed (hermaphrodite). This is why we can say that reproductive/sexual organ is related to sexual identification, but not that reproductive/sexual organ automatically implies sexual identification.

Now taking it a step further, and let's say that genitalia=sex, and that sex=gender, and that a male looses his member due to cancer. Is this male (biological) still a He (gender), or is this male now a She or and "It" (gender)? More than likely they still perceive themselves as He, because of their gender, despite what is essentially a change in sex as most people perceive it, is still male. That individual changed sexually, but their gender did not, therefore sex/sexuality≠gender. Furthermore, even though their reproductive abilities changed, this does not make them less male. Hence, reproductive/sexual organ≈sex. Likewise, despite what a lot of men seem to think, a bigger penis does not make them more male (biology) or more masculine (gender) than men with smaller penises. The same can be said of women and breast size for example.

How you perceive yourself and what you have are two different things. Heaven help us if gender is to be tied to an 'ideal norm,' because it is likely that few of us in this thread meet that criteria of "a man is a, b, c, d, etc." or "a woman is a, b, c, d, etc." One last thing to ponder on this topic: were you to wake up tomorrow in the body of your opposite sex, would you 1) be able to go about just fine, no problems, in that body, doing that which is required day to day with that body without wanting to scream at some point, and 2) would you then be attracted to the opposite sex from what you are now?

Simply put, the meshing together of sex, sexual orientation, and gender is not always perfect, and is virtually unique for every person out there. If nothing else, we can say that the idea that reproductive/sexual organ=sex=gender=orientation is stupid and naive. I myself consider myself to be lesbian, and have been accepted as such many people, even though I was born male. I can consider myself this because although I was born male (sex classification), I am a woman (gender) who is attracted to other women (orientation). Yes, it took me a loooooong time to get my head wrapped around this concept also.

4) "She's OK to be transsexual because she's hot, but that one just looks like a man in a dress. /I'd hit it."
This is the typical poster who judges all women, including transsexuals, based on looks, and heaven forbid if one of them does not match up to his criteria of beauty. Mind you, they'd never consider the possibility of a female who became male, and wouldn't begin to know how to judge that person. But hey, it's Fark, so if beauty is your criteria, then whatever. Pig.

5) It's against the word of {insert deity's name here}.
You have other issues to deal with, namely an overactive belief in fairy tales and fantasy that clouds your ability to produce rational arguments if you are using this excuse for trans-bashing. There can be no rational discussion with you until you but down your holy book and ask questions based on reality.

SomethingBetter76: I don't remember much after that due to brain damage caused by beating my head against my desk while screaming "FLUID DYNAMICS YOU IDIOT!"

Right, because if it's not physics it's crap (although as an anthropology major I too will admit to a certain prejudice against the sociology majors).


Of course there is the obligatory mention of the Bunga Wunga people of wherever. You Social Science types always have to go and pull some stone age aboriginal types out of your ass don't you?

Jesus H. Murphy! Ethnocentric much? Your racism is showing, you might want to get that checked. If you want modern, technologically advanced societies that recognize more to gender than western society then you can start with Thailand and India.


Damn the great majority of human cultures in the rest of the world here's a bunch of assholes in mud huts to show that it's OK that I like to wear my sisters clothes.


And again with the enthnocentricity. Believing the western world is "the great majority of human cultures" and belittling pre-literate cultures are "a bunch of assholes in mud huts".



It's never any big group is it? The Chinese, hell there's a few Billion of them. Indians another Billion or so.

And it only took two for you to get it wrong. India has a much more analogue sense of gender identity than we do, and as you pointed out there is nigh upon a billion of them.


Never a word about 'em.

Consider the word delivered.


I don't care if some guy wants to dress up as Sailor Moon.

And yet you go so far out of your way to make a jackass of yourself.


ITT: I get told how I am WRONG.

Don't worry, I suspect ITT I get told there's a hook in my mouth.